Macbook Pro Crashing on set

[Harky Jewett]

I have a Macbook Pro with a 2.33 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo processor and 3 GB of memory. I'm running the latest version of leopard.

On set I'm using R3D Data manager (great program by the way) to copy files from cf card to a Sonnet Fusion F2.

And I'll check certain shots in Red Alert. Along with opening the proxies to do a quick check of a shot.

So I'm having problems with the computer crashing and the screen just going black. This usually happens when I'm playing through the proxies (which never really play smoothly, I assume it's just too much for the processor to handle) and have another program (usually Red Alert) open. This is especially true if the footage has sound.

We also tried doing some log and transfer to prores in Final cut. This was working fine at first, but now it just crashes.

My question is, will this just happen on a laptop given the large files (shooting 4K 2:1 23.98). Or is there something wrong with my macbook.

[Anthony S. Pratt]

Hi Harky, if you're trying to look at the 4k QT Proxies (_F.movs) you will hit some fairly serious problems - try using the 2k proxies instead (_H.mov).

[Shawn Booth]

Also, try not running RED programs with others open. Have you tried REDCine? I think you might have more luck with it when reviewing shots. True, there's no sound, but you can still review footage. (Hopefully, you have sound recorded on another format as well.)

[Harky Jewett]

try using the 2k proxies instead (_H.mov).


We only use the lowest res P proxies to review the footage. My computer doesn't handle the H's too well. And I know what you mean about the F's, can't get any playback at all with those.



Also, try not running RED programs with others open. Have you tried REDCine? I think you might have more luck with it when reviewing shots.

I haven't tried using redcine. That said I don't think we've really had problems with Red Alert. It's mainly when dealing with the proxies (or trying to open stuff up in final cut) that crashes occur.

We did have the restart screen come up (the one that tells you to power down the comp in 50 different languages), during a copy through R3D Data Manager. Luckily the program doesn't erase the files on the cf card until it has checked and verified the copy.

[Miltos Pilalitos]

I was always a PC guy and only recently, because of RED, i purchased a MacBook Pro (2.6 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 4GB 667 MHz DDR2 SDRAM). I have to say that i can edit the _M proxies in Final Cut with out any problem and it's realy amazing if you think about it. Quicktime doesn't play smoothly any other than the _P proxies but i can't complain about it.

Yesterday it was the first time REDCINE crashed on set while it was working for 7 hours+. I was feeding it footage from CF cards non stop to check the footage and export HQ snapshots of various shots. After reloading it i continued working without problems.

Overall i have to say that a MacBook Pro is a realistic alternative to a Mac pro for serious work. Right now i am editing a TV commercial from the comfort of my bed and you can't beat that. :-)

Miltos

[Ivan Cortazar]

Miltos,

How are your rendering times from your Macbook? I am just curios.

Thanks,

IC.

[Harky Jewett]

I was always a PC guy and only recently, because of RED, i purchased a MacBook Pro (2.6 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 4GB 667 MHz DDR2 SDRAM). I have to say that i can edit the _M proxies in Final Cut with out any problem and it's realy amazing if you think about it. Quicktime doesn't play smoothly any other than the _P proxies but i can't complain about it.

Yesterday it was the first time REDCINE crashed on set while it was working for 7 hours+. I was feeding it footage from CF cards non stop to check the footage and export HQ snapshots of various shots. After reloading it i continued working without problems.

Overall i have to say that a MacBook Pro is a realistic alternative to a Mac pro for serious work. Right now i am editing a TV commercial from the comfort of my bed and you can't beat that. :-)

Miltos


Since these programs will push the comp to its edge I wonder if the fact that your using a slightly faster processor that can handle more memory can account for you not really experiencing crashes. .33 Ghz more processing power along with 1GB more RAM might not sound like a lot, but it could be making the difference.

[hanselblat]

Hi guys and gals (are there any women here?),
I hope this is the right place to bring up some of my doubts. When I ordered my red this is what I had in mind: shoot red material in 4k, proxy in 720p or 1k, make first edits on the newest and fastest macbook I can get coming december, do first color correction by means of my jvc pal video monitor, when all's finished, have final color correction done by a post production company.
However: when I saw the actual filesizes of 1k proxies I realised these are never selfcontained qt movies; which means your computer can never edit without your macbook being disconnected from the 4-6terabyte storage (which was interesting to me because I travel a lot); in which case a macbook is not such a good choice, and the 8 core mac pro is the way to go. Or am I misunderstanding something? On top of that, I started wondering whether editing color of 4k material with a pal monitor may not be such a good idea.
Any thoughts here?
thanks in advance,
Hans

[Shawn Booth]

in which case a macbook is not such a good choice, and the 8 core mac pro is the way to go. Or am I misunderstanding something?
Hans

(Yes, there are some ladies here) If you're talking about having one computer only, then sure, it's probably better to have the desktop - if you're the one doing all the editing. I have both a macbook pro and a mac pro and feel you need both. I'm certainly not carrying my edit suite around to set.

Now, back to Harky. Are you working in High Precision YUV? What version of QT? I really don't think this has to do with your laptop.

[hanselblat]

Sorry, maybe I should have put this in a separate thread and not interfere in Harky's

[Shawn Booth]

no no, you're fine. I was just saying I'm now going back to Harky's issue.

[Miltos Pilalitos]

Miltos,

How are your rendering times from your Macbook? I am just curios.

Thanks,

IC.

The only rendering my Macbook pro is doing is DPX sequences out of REDCINE and it's doing it very fast. It's actualy several times FASTER than my PC (Intel Core 2 X6800 EXTREME @ 2.93GHz, 4GB of RAM running WinXPx64).

I am not sure if it's the hardware or the way REDCINE is working under OSX but it's a reality that many users with both PCs and MACs can confirm. REDCINE (OSX) is FAAAAAAAAAST!!

Miltos

[Harky Jewett]

Are you working in High Precision YUV? What version of QT? I really don't think this has to do with your laptop.

Hi Shawn,

The high precision YUV option in Final Cut? I didn't have it enabled, but doesn't it just apply to rendering?

I'm working with Quicktime 7.5

Another thought, I don't know if it would cause problems, but I do have windows installed using boot camp. It's on an 11GB partition my 200GB notebook drive.

Harky

[Shawn Booth]

hmmm. I would try the YUV setting in FCS and see what happens. Also, QT 7.5 might be the culprit. I haven't yet updated, so I'm not sure.

I'm not sure about the windows thing, but I doubt that's the issue as well.

I would definitely say run only REDAlert! or FCS at a time. Also, you do have the REDCODE codec installed right?

[Harky Jewett]

Definitely have Redcode installed. It wouldn't even show up in QT if I didn't.

I'll try setting it to High Precision YUV. I hope 7.5 isn't the culprit, but you might be right.


Yet another thing I forgot to mention is that I've tried to run a "repair disk permissions" and it just crashes the computer. Don't know what to make of that.


In any case, thank you for your responses!

[Shawn Booth]

Wait, you try to repair disk permissions and that crashes your computer?

Whoa.....

Any chance you can try working on another machine with specs as close to yours as possible? Maybe the windows thing is also a problem?

If it is a QT issue, build 16 is coming in less than 48 hours and you should be fine on that front.

You're very welcome. It's what this forum is for no?

[Esteban Sosnitsky]

I gotta shoot this question here, maybe shawn or harky can give me a hint. What do you think on the new iMacs with 3.06GHZ and 4 G on ram? With one 1TB of disk space for editing in FCP red's footage? Do you really need to invest all the money on a mac tower with dual processors and all that?
Thanks!

[Harky Jewett]

Do you really need to invest all the money on a mac tower with dual processors and all that?

Short answer, Yes, if it's feasible for you to do so. But what are you using it for? Editing? Color? FX, Graphics work, etc.? All of the above?

That's just my opinion though. Miltos, earlier in this thread, said that he was happy with his macbook pro. And the specs on the top iMac are slightly better. If it were me, I'd still go with the macbook though, since I'd want the portability.

[Esteban Sosnitsky]

I want an editing suite in which you can edit and color correct.
We use FCP, After effects, color and combustion.
I think macbook pro is not the way to go, its not that expandable and the screen is small. But I do want to know if getting a mac tower will improve my editing time in terms of renders a lot more than the iMac.
I mean, you can get 3 iMacs for the price of 1 Mac Pro.!!! I can have three machines working on different things instead of just one. Just a thought. I really dont know if it will make that big of a difference.:s

[amrrahmy]

imac screen has issues, and cannot be used in video productions.

macbook pro offers mobility, so u can use it on set. and that's worth allot.

also, it's not slow(yes, it's slower than a mac pro that cost's 2,3 times as much), but it's not slow with applications, and it wont bother u or make u feel restricted with it's limitations that u'll be annoyed from it(maybe a little, but not much).

[Shawn Booth]

My opinion here - you want to play with the big boy toys... Play with the big boy toys. An iMac is not big.

Whatever you decide, try and make sure it has Pro in the name.

iMac.... where's that PD150?

[Harky Jewett]

estebanred,

What are you working with now?

[Esteban Sosnitsky]

First of all thanks for your input.
We have a suite right now with a G5 with an AJA I/O card with a Rorke Data array. We work on Final Cut Pro mainly. Also, a macbook pro for the set has been doing the job just fine.
BUT we want to set up a couple of new suites so that whenever you shoot with the RED we can adapt to the workflow. I thought the iMac could do the job but after reading some posts all afternoon I now see its not a good idea. I have been seeing the RAID options, the Video Cards (I read a post in which Jim said ATI are the best for macs) and the I/O cards. We finalize all our workflow in Standard Definition. I just dont know how to configure a mac pro optimized for our needs!!!

[Shawn Booth]

I think most would agree with me on this: fastest processors you can afford and at least 8gb RAM at the min. Then you want fast hard drives.

I understand you finish mostly in SD but I think you should be prepared for as many finishing formats as possible. You never know when a client will want to film out or have an HD master.

[Harky Jewett]

I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for, but:

Shawn beat me to it, but I'd recommend the fastest processor available too. If you're trying to meet a certain budget I'd only get a slower processor as a last resort. I don't understand people who say "I can get away with a slower processor". It will make a difference, especially working with red footage (and especially when Color can finally work with R3D files). Plus getting a faster processor future proofs your comp as much as a computer can be futureproofed nowadays.

Get the ATI cards. Yes, Red recommends them over Nvidia for mac.

Memory- I have non Apple memory in my G5 (think it's transcend if I remember correctly). It's ridiculously cheaper than the Apple memory (I'd actually like to hear other people's opinion on Apple memory vs. non-Apple). 4GB minimum in my opinion.

Storage- The Caldigit HDPro is getting a lot of good buzz. But if you're happy with Rorke...I haven't used either companies products.

I don't use an I/O card so I can't be of much help there, but I'm sure there are countless recommendations in this forum.

Hope this helps.

[Uli Plank]

Sorry to disagree, but I don't think the fastest CPU is necessary – you always pay a premium for it where the speed difference is far less than the price difference.
Buy heaps of RAM instead, 2 GB per CPU core, but not from Apple. Sorry again, I can't give you a recommendation for a dealer abroad, since I'm located in Germany. We never had problems with our memory from DSP-Memory in 8 MacPros. You should get directed to good American sources at the creative cow.
I second the ATI cards, there's soon going to be a new one for the Mac, check barefeats.com.
We use Blackmagic cards for I/O and never had a problem with them, but you will find quite a few users who say AJA has the better support. After all, there are ex-AJA guys working for Red and the reputation of both companies is excellent.

Hope this helps,

Uli

[Esteban Sosnitsky]

Thanks all again..

This has been most helpful!:w00t:

I am currently looking for a MacPro with the fastest CPU available. I think the fastest the processor is today, the longer it will remain up to date. In other words it wont be depreciated that soon. I will check on prices about the ram and try not to buy from apple. Do you have any brand in particular you would recommend? Also, regarding converters, have you tried AJA versus Blackmagic? I think we would need one of those to output to a SD monitor. About the disks, I am looking at that website from caldigit and they look good. We have had problems with rorke data and their tech support hasnt been of much help. So I think we are going to try and risk ourselves with those. Thanks all for your help again. Its very much apprecciated.

EDIT:>>What do you think of B&H's modified mac pros?

[Damon Meledones]

We did have the restart screen come up (the one that tells you to power down the comp in 50 different languages), during a copy through R3D Data Manager.


Yet another thing I forgot to mention is that I've tried to run a "repair disk permissions" and it just crashes the computer. Don't know what to make of that.

Kernel panics (the screen telling you to power down) are caused by hardware, and sometimes low-level driver, problems. When you say that "repair disk permissions" crashes the computer, is that a kernel panic, does the app just crash, the app crashes and the computer sits around with the spinning pinwheel of doom? You may also find some clues as to what exactly is failing in your system logs, viewable with the "Console" application.

I suspect that you either have some sort of hardware problem--such as a loose connection, dirty contacts, or a faulty power supply--or corrupted operating system files or firmware settings. I would start by resetting your computers firmware (can someone chime in on the exact start-up key sequence for that?). Next I would try a completely clean OS and application re-install. If you are still having problems, then I would contact AppleCare for further troubleshooting and possible warranty work.

Hope that helps! :detective2:

[Alex Carr]

Okay let me clarify some things about this entire issue.... If you are using ONLY Firewire then thats your #1 problem. Firewire is one Bus, YOU MUST ALSO USE ANOTHER!!!

It doesnt matter about CPU or GPU, (for a macbook pro on set). It matters about Hard Drive speed ONLY. THIS MACHINE IS NEVER ALLOWED TO DO CONVERSIONS!!!!!! The times are almost 20:1, c'mon an 800mhz FSB processor is too crappy to ever do Transcodes while you have to dump more footage on set. It will crash and you will lose time.

I am using a 15.4" 2.16ghz Macbook Pro with 4GB RAM, 667FSB, and ATI 128VRAM. I have 10.5.2, QT 7.4.5, FCP 6.0.3. (This is what production bought me for a two camera 12 week shoot)

I am able to play _M proxies Full speed. And I am able to have RED ALERT open at all times. I play _H in 12 fps. I never have to bother with _P...

I am however using an e-sata to express card. Having Full bandwidth to 3Gb/s Drives is the ONLY thing that matters. If you are trying to Daisy chain a FW800 CF reader to a another FW800 Drive and trying to play footage from that very same bus while having Red Alert open with the same files from that drive working and having FCP open transcoding files all from that same drive. YOU WILL MELT YOUR MACBOOK PRO. Its common sense to only have one active process from a Drive with low bandwidth (like FW800)

I am able to dump a magazine and Back it up three times in less than 12 minutes. And I hand the formatted card right back. We shoot up to 200GB / day. Once its backed up there is no reason to wait to format them. I'm abnle to check TC, Blue frames, and Scene #'s all in this small amount of time. I'm basically a Loader, I help with Camera Dept all day too.

In short, Firewire is in the past you MUST use esata if you want to sucessfully work on set. FW800 is slow as crap...

esata= 3000 mbs
FW800 = 800 mbs

Also an imac only has Firewire 800, so completely forget that if you want to work in a timely fashion.

[hanselblat]

incredible how these things never seem to get dead clear. Now that Shawn trashed (:biggrin: ) my hopes of working with a macbook pro only for editing I started looking better at the macpro and saw that you can get 4 harddisks working at 15000rpm. Is that something to take into serious consideration?
Hans

[Uli Plank]

I can second this, a MBP is fully up to the task on set with an eSata-card in the Express slot and a small RAID like the Taurus or a Sidecar. FW800 is still fine for HDTV, but not for digital cinema.
A MacPro is a very different beast, the octo, heaps of RAM and a few RAIDed drives will give you one of the best workstations for digital film you can get. BTW, there's now a cheap solution in the market to add to external drives without a controller card, just routing the spare connectors to the back.

Regards,

Uli

[KETCH ROSSi]

Some of the same issues here, with my 17" MBP 2.4 4GB 160GBHD 7200RPM, ended up taking both FCP6 and SHAKE out as well as other apps, the FW800 works great for Pics even those of 25MB sizes, but it is slow for the RED footage, didn't get the esata card and drives, but also I'm not a Pro at this, in fact I'm just starting to learn this stuff right out of Photography.

Now seriously thinking on also going to the MacPro, and was thinking the same thing as Hans, would it be any worth the extra cash to go with the 15000rpm drives, especially if and when using G-Raid which go to 72000RPM?


I know the new MBP (with LED screen) are faster and have better Graphic cards as well 512 vs 256, but not sure about the overall performance if it is going to be any better then the one I have, so I think in my opinion it is best to go with the Tower, and just carry it on set with a cart.


Obviously as already said don't have much experience, but learning something new every day, and looking for the best solution for my workflow and that of those working with me, as it sucks not to have the horse power when you need it.

Some one else here might have more experience and give some insides.

thanks.


Ciao

[Alex Carr]

working with fw800 is a joke, seriously. if you Want to excell In this business you need to learn about technology every single day... if you don't use esata I would never recommend you to a production . its that simple... you use 800 it will take you 3 times as long to do the same things, when im doing thevsame work with a slower mac... it has nothing to do with computer... 90% of errors are people who have no clue what they are doing... seriously... you hire a dam for a reason... so you have nothing to worry about... this is what I do... if you don't take advantage of technology you will be left in the dust...

[Alex Carr]

basically it doesnt matter the model of your macbook pro, it is all about hdd speed.MacBook is fine YOU must have esata... my hackintoshes have on board esata... cmon apple am I going to have to hack your operating system to get the normal benifits of a normal computer? apple I won't buy your hardware if there Is not an onboard esata bus in the laptops... I build mac pros for 1200 apple sells them for $3000, and they have esata... however I can use an sata to esata cable to transfer information... as a last resort...

[Shawn Booth]

incredible how these things never seem to get dead clear. Now that Shawn trashed (:biggrin: ) my hopes of working with a macbook pro only for editing I started looking better at the macpro and saw that you can get 4 harddisks working at 15000rpm. Is that something to take into serious consideration?
Hans

That's what I have. I also have the Macbook Pro... How did I trash your hopes? I was saying everything about using an iMac.

EDIT: Yeah, I reread all my posts in this thread and I never said anything bad about using a Macbook Pro.

[Damon Meledones]

Just to clear things up a bit, the FW800 bus is faster than even a RED Drive can deliver. The importance of an eSATA (or even just a second FireWire) bus attached via an ExpressCard/PCI-express slot is that while you can read or write to a card/drive over FireWire 800 at full speed, you cannot read AND write at the same time and still maintain full speed.

In other words: to get the fastest transfers possible, you must put each device on a separate bus. Use an eSATA card reader with a FireWire drive, or a FireWire card reader with multiple eSATA drives (better).

Also, no matter how much you are asking of your computer, Mac or PC, it should NEVER crash. Slow to a crawl? Sure. System crash? Never.

[KETCH ROSSi]

x86box,

to make a clarification, my MBP never crashed, some applications from time to time have quit on me, but never has the computer crashed on me, and this is my personal computer, not my work computer, reason why I asked if any one knew anything about the 15000rpm drives as I like to have more then one opinion when purchasing something for the business, and trust those of the users here.

That is why I say some of the same issues here, the fact that I tucked out some of the apps to see if thinks got faster, was out of not having experience and trying out every possible solution.

Don't quite understand if you are been harsh or am I miss understanding your statements, however, I'm a professional and as such I work and will continue to work with the top of what this industry has to offer, I learn new stuff every day and at an impressive rate, might I add, considering the many apps I'm learning all together, what I don't know I ask, as I just deed here, this issues are none existing on any of the productions were I have been part of, as I do not full my self or any one else in thinking that knowing it all, and always hire other Professionals to work for me with me on the Jobs.

Don't want to sound arrogant, but at the same time I don't like what you have written, at list the way I have understood, please forgive me if that statement was not directed at me, or if I miss understood in any way, but like any one else would do if they fill they have been unjustly attacked, they respond.


I own my company, and I hire people to work for me, but I do like this industry to the bone and try my very best to learn as much as possible, but one man can't and will never be able to do it all, I just try to learn the basics of everything and know the language to speak with my crew.


ciao

[hanselblat]

That's what I have. I also have the Macbook Pro... How did I trash your hopes? I was saying everything about using an iMac.

EDIT: Yeah, I reread all my posts in this thread and I never said anything bad about using a Macbook Pro.

I guess I should reread not only my posts but other's as well

[hanselblat]

x86box,

to make a clarification, my MBP never crashed, some applications from time to time have quit on me, but never has the computer crashed on me, and this is my personal computer, not my work computer, reason why I asked if any one knew anything about the 15000rpm drives as I like to have more then one opinion when purchasing something for the business, and trust those of the users here.

That is why I say some of the same issues here, the fact that I tucked out some of the apps to see if thinks got faster, was out of not having experience and trying out every possible solution.

Don't quite understand if you are been harsh or am I miss understanding your statements, however, I'm a professional and as such I work and will continue to work with the top of what this industry has to offer, I learn new stuff every day and at an impressive rate, might I add, considering the many apps I'm learning all together, what I don't know I ask, as I just deed here, this issues are none existing on any of the productions were I have been part of, as I do not full my self or any one else in thinking that knowing it all, and always hire other Professionals to work for me with me on the Jobs.

Don't want to sound arrogant, but at the same time I don't like what you have written, at list the way I have understood, please forgive me if that statement was not directed at me, or if I miss understood in any way, but like any one else would do if they fill they have been unjustly attacked, they respond.


I own my company, and I hire people to work for me, but I do like this industry to the bone and try my very best to learn as much as possible, but one man can't and will never be able to do it all, I just try to learn the basics of everything and know the language to speak with my crew.


ciao

I don't think the comments were that personal Ketch, but I understand there's some frustration on both sides. Like you I come from photography and am trying to feel myself into areas that even the technicians in the field can't seem to get unanimous about. I myself get the feeling that I always ask the wrong questions, because there are usually not many full answers. Maybe the experts are tired of questions that sound like they come from amateurs.
It would be nice if red in the near future could come up with a list of final recommendations for hardware. Then again, it may be hidden in some of the gazillion posts and threads already, or they're still learning themselves.

[JohnF]

I haven't read this thread in full so I don't know if it's already been mentioned.

In my experience Mac laptops (all models and I've used around 60 Mac laptops over the past couple of years) are prone to over-heating. When doing heavy work like handling and/or processing video files I've noticed their temperature can rise considerably. The ventilation/cooling systems inside Mac laptops are not fully up to the job of handling such conditions. And this can often lead to crashes.

Simple precautions often help prevent such issues. Raising the base of the laptop off whatever surface you are sitting it on allows for more heat to be dissipated. This can be done by sitting the rear of the computer on a book. A couple of cm or an inch is all that is needed to make a difference. Even better, though not as convenient, is to raise the base of the laptop as mentioned and place a desktop fan nearby to constantly move air over the computer (the base of the laptop is the most important place to cool though) - this is especially useful when shooting on set when the combination of computer workload and set lighting raises ambient temps above "normal".

Just thought I'd mention it...

JohnF

[KETCH ROSSi]

[QUOTE=hanselblat;238022]I don't think the comments were that personal Ketch, but I understand there's some frustration on both sides. Like you I come from photography and am trying to feel myself into areas that even the technicians in the field can't seem to get unanimous about. I myself get the feeling that I always ask the wrong questions, because there are usually not many full answers. Maybe the experts are tired of questions that sound like they come from amateurs.
It would be nice if red in the near future could come up with a list of final recommendations for hardware. Then again, it may be hidden in some of the gazillion posts and threads already, or they're still learning themselves.

It is always harder when there is an accent in the mist, but not that I tucked too personal, but I like to know when and if I have been attacked, the statement of no recommending to any production, unless you use esata, is pretty silly itself, not that I need any recommendations any way, but it is always nice to have good things to say about the way you do business.

Just trying to get an answer for x86box, that is all, I like his posts but on the one above, I felt it was directed at me and in a way aI didn't like it.


ciao

[Kevin Stanley]

In terms of Render times I strongly advise using a Mac Pro with as much CPU as you can justify. It is significantly faster for rendering RED files and is a solid platform as an editing station, especially if you will be using After Effects or other compositing programs that like lots of RAM. You can absolutely get away with an MBP for editing with FCP, I use one (2.33GHz 2GB Ram) with a G-tech 2TB FW800 and Sonnet F2 for mobile editing and it works great, always head back to the Mac Pro to render all my finish media with though.

Kevin

[KETCH ROSSi]

Thanks Kevin, much appreciated!

ciao

[hanselblat]

wow, red is there to lift the fog

[KETCH ROSSi]

In terms of Render times I strongly advise using a Mac Pro with as much CPU as you can justify. It is significantly faster for rendering RED files and is a solid platform as an editing station, especially if you will be using After Effects or other compositing programs that like lots of RAM. You can absolutely get away with an MBP for editing with FCP, I use one (2.33GHz 2GB Ram) with a G-tech 2TB FW800 and Sonnet F2 for mobile editing and it works great, always head back to the Mac Pro to render all my finish media with though.

Kevin


Okay decided to go for the Tower now!

Few needed advises on configuration as there are so many speculative info I can't make sense of it all.


A) The extra $$$ from 2.8 - 8 core to 3.2 - 8 core, is it worth?

B) How much memory is in off and or best to have w/o having extra memory that just seats there w/o been used?

C) How much of a difference will really make the SAS 15,000rpm Drive and the RAID CARD vs. the 7200rpm drives?

D) If 7200rpm drives are to be chosen, better max the drives inside or get external G-RAID 7200rpm?

E) Graphic card, the 5600 Quadro seems not to be an ideal investment for RED related work correct? Then the Nvidia 8800 would be the ones to get? Need two cards for Three monitors and a Flat screen TV!


Any Professional response on this would be greatly appreciated Kevin.


ciao

[Esteban Sosnitsky]

I read a post from Jim, he suggests that ATI cards are better for MAC than Nvidia. Lookin forward to other comments as I am in the same situation here.

[KETCH ROSSi]

Yes of that I'm also aware, but the ATI cards are 256 mb vs. the double of the Nvidia @ 512 mb.

Lets see.

ciao

[Shawn Booth]

Hey Ketch -

Long time. All I can tell you is my MacPro here is the 15K RPM drives raided together, I have the FX5600 graphics card - I work without headaches. It's hard to see posts about this and that going wrong, or this doesn't work, or this or that. I don't get this here. My longest render time out of RedCine was 12 hours - for 6 hours of 4K. (Interviews for this doc)

Things I get are slower times on my laptop versus my desktop.

If I were to buy another station, it would be the exact same one that I already have.

HARKY -

Any luck?

[Esteban Sosnitsky]

I have the FX5600 graphics card - I work without headaches.

Hey Shawn, is that the 1GB or the 1.5 GB card the one you got?
Any problems at all???
I thought after reading Jim's post and the http://www.barefeats.com/ link that ATI was the way to go, really interested in your opinion here.
Thanks.

[KETCH ROSSi]

Hey Shawn,

I'll be using this desktop on my new studio for both Photography and Cinematography projects, and will be loaded with REDCINE, REDALERT, FCS2, SHAKE, APERTURE 2.1, PAINTERX, VIVEZA, DFX, and more, so performance it is a must, but at the same time wanted to know what would be considered creasy spending and something that I might never be able to take advantage of, since I don't do 3D rendering, but at the same time like to know that I have purchased a station that will be good for at list a couple of years, and that any Professional project that you can trow at it will be executed.

So if you could list a complete set up would be great.

ciao

[Esteban Sosnitsky]

http://www.barefeats.com/harper8.html

http://www.barefeats.com/harper10.html

[KETCH ROSSi]

Thanks for the links estebanred, however the Banchmarks don't tell me much as they never test any of the applications I'll be using, this is why I'm looking for a direct Professional advise on the purchase, and Shawn seems to have the system and just wanted to know more about it.

ciao

[amrrahmy]

u can use all the power from an nvidia card, but the 5600 is too expensive compared to a new high end consumer nvidia card that u can sli 3 of them to even pass the 5600 speed with less money,

but about the processors, it doesn't make much difference from 3.2 to 3.0 to 2.8 model, u cant even notice the difference cause there diff processors that do some stuff better and others slower.
nothing u do will be effected by the processor, there are too many bottle necks before u reach the processor. investing in a faster hard-drive is better than buying an over priced processor, same thing with the video card, a new high end gamer card with cuda and purevideo would be a wise choice.

[Esteban Sosnitsky]

The graphs I posted show Shawn's card effectiveness among the other cards available, specially in the second link. They used Motion 3, from the family of FCP. I think it can give you a pretty close idea of what these cards can do for you. They tested the ATI versus the Nvidia and I would recommend reading the last part where they conclude their analysis.

Aditionally I'd rather quote:
"This performance deficiency will extend to other Apple pro apps like Final Cut Pro video effects and Aperture functions that invoke Core Image."

I think they did a great job, although I am still undecided :P

[KETCH ROSSi]

I'm starting to fill bad about hijacking this thread, but in a way is about the same thing, computing power for our workflow, on and off set, so I hope I'll be forgiven if I continue.


I decided to go the Tower route and build a cart dolly to bring on set, even on the high end photo shoots were I have the camera on Live view and focus and shoot via the 30" Cinema Display (also the models get a kick seen them selfs live).

So then it seems that the 2.8 - 8 Core is the way to go as far as processor, now remains the DRIVES, MEMORY, and as far as the Graphic card I know I'll need at list two any way because of the three Cinema Display + 52" Sony Flat Panel HDTV set up.


ciao

[Shawn Booth]

Amrrahmy has pretty good points as do others. I went to the extreme, excessive side of things - because I could.

I'm not sure how the FX5600 helps me out to be honest, it's just what I have.
I also have more RAM than I need at 32GB.
I also have the 15K RPM RAIDED internal drives. If you're going the MacPro route, this should be your only option IMHO.

I also have zero problems when working in REDCine/ FCS/ After Effects/ Shake.

I have never had a better system. The only things I'm missing are the Xserve RAID system.

EDIT: I disagree with the dif between processors. Get the fastest you can afford.

[Blair S. Paulsen]

Ketch-
Drives:
Common wisdom is that the 15,000 rpm drives are worthwhile only for the system/application/scratch drive. The media drives are typically in a RAID configuration for best speed and capacity, 7200 rpm should be cheaper, run cooler and with a proper RAID controller plenty fast.

RAM:
1 GB per core should do it, OWC has a good rep for 3rd party RAM. Make sure all your RAM chips match! DO NOT mix the stock Apple RAM with anything else.

CPU Clock Speed:
If the price bump doesn't gag you then go for it. Specific tasks like rendering and encoding will benefit. Check with your CPA :wink:

ATI vs nVidia Craphics Cards:
On the Mac the drivers for the nVidia cards have earned a bad reputation. Speed is about more than just how much on board memory a card sports. The wimpy, older ATI cards the Mac supports are a joke to PC folk. If you can find some serious geeks who have had success with the 5600 cards on Macs that's great news but the last round of benchmarks I saw were disappointing. Maybe we just need to find the right engineers at nVidia and Apple and send them a case of Scotch :help:

Laptop vs Desktop:
Desktop on a cart is a rockin' option. Speed, big screen support, expansion slots, etc. To me a laptop is a portable ingest station, internet appliance and histogram checker and not much more. YMMV.

[KETCH ROSSi]

The graphs I posted show Shawn's card effectiveness among the other cards available, specially in the second link. They used Motion 3, from the family of FCP. I think it can give you a pretty close idea of what these cards can do for you. They tested the ATI versus the Nvidia and I would recommend reading the last part where they conclude their analysis.

Aditionally I'd rather quote:
"This performance deficiency will extend to other Apple pro apps like Final Cut Pro video effects and Aperture functions that invoke Core Image."

I think they did a great job, although I am still undecided :P

Yes thanks,

I did see that and the ATI cards were originally my choice simply because of my need for multiple cards, and the limited power supply which barely will support two Nvidia 8800, but can trow up to 4 ATI cards, just looking for a confirmation that that is in deed the best way to go, and I'll pull the plug.

After off course also finding more out about the Drive configuration and Memory.


ciao

[amrrahmy]

5600 wasn't even built for speed ,it was build to manage high quantity in small amount of time, very different concepts.

it's not faster, but it can compute more in the same amount of time,
so if ur passing small amount of data, even a 8800gt will be faster than a fx5600.

[KETCH ROSSi]

Ketch-
Drives:
Common wisdom is that the 15,000 rpm drives are worthwhile only for the system/application/scratch drive. The media drives are typically in a RAID configuration for best speed and capacity, 7200 rpm should be cheaper, run cooler and with a proper RAID controller plenty fast.

RAM:
1 GB per core should do it, OWC has a good rep for 3rd party RAM. Make sure all your RAM chips match! DO NOT mix the stock Apple RAM with anything else.

CPU Clock Speed:
If the price bump doesn't gag you then go for it. Specific tasks like rendering and encoding will benefit. Check with your CPA :wink:

ATI vs nVidia Craphics Cards:
On the Mac the drivers for the nVidia cards have earned a bad reputation. Speed is about more than just how much on board memory a card sports. The wimpy, older ATI cards the Mac supports are a joke to PC folk. If you can find some serious geeks who have had success with the 5600 cards on Macs that's great news but the last round of benchmarks I saw were disappointing. Maybe we just need to find the right engineers at nVidia and Apple and send them a case of Scotch :help:

Laptop vs Desktop:
Desktop on a cart is a rockin' option. Speed, big screen support, expansion slots, etc. To me a laptop is a portable ingest station, internet appliance and histogram checker and not much more. YMMV.



BLAIR, my friend go to see you:) well matter os speech off course!

Then i think I'll stick with the 7200 drives, but it would be better to fill up the Tower or get external G-RAID drives?

Also Blair check your PM, sending you one right now about the GARBO shoot.


ciao

[Harky Jewett]

Whoa, I don't check it for a few days and the thread explodes:w00t:

I wiped my computer and did a clean install. I'm basically going to install only the programs I need or might need on the laptop (e.g. Yes to FCP, AF, PS, Red programs, No to Shake, dreamweaver). I had loaded the computer up with a lot of programs, but I'm not really sure if that could have caused problems.

Haven't had a chance to test it yet, but we'll see.

I'm not sure if the esata advice was directed at me, but to be clear, on set I usually run a lexar FW800 CF card reader into my comp and copy the footage over to a Sonnet Fusion F2 which is connected via esata through an express card adapter. The Sonnet is set up as a mirrored raid to have that added protection.

Then during down time, we'll take the footage from the Sonnet and copy it over to a Gtech G Raid Mini to have a third copy (since the Sonnet is actually making two copies in its mirrored configuration).

I think JohnF mentioned heat issues earlier in this thread. This sounds like a possible culprit. The only time we got the It's a Small World Power Down Screen of Death, was when the computer was not plugged in and the fan had not been going (it must have been in power save mode or something).

Plus the Sonnet is powered from the FW400 jack and the Lexar and Gtech are bus powered. Maybe running these things together can cause heat issues.

[Esteban Sosnitsky]

Harky
Sorry if we messed up your thread a little, although I think its all connected!!

I also own a Mac book pro just like yours but with 2gb, and I just bought an iMac 3.06ghz with 4G in ram and a SATA 1TB internal HDD. The difference is huge. I am not saying that you should youse an iMac to take on the set, but I want to point out the fact that probably the mac book pro is made for something else. I tried to play videos from other machines and it plays at the lower resolution, I'd just use it to parse files and as I also work in photography I plug my digital back in it to xfer files.

[Harky Jewett]

Harky
Sorry if we messed up your thread a little, although I think its all connected!!

No, You didn't at all. I was just commenting on the amount of posts it got in just a day or two, after a while of not getting many posts.

It sounds like it would be nice to bring an iMac on set if there's that big a difference. I suppose if one could rig up a carrying case for it the keyboard and the mouse. But, of course, you'd have to plug in somewhere.

[Esteban Sosnitsky]

Someone posted a carrying case for the iMac, but I think its too much for the set!!! IMHO