Christian Filmmaking (not a theological discussion).

[Joseph Hutson]

First of all, I want to say thank you to all of those that participated in the "Christian Filmmakers?" thread.

Secondly, I want to say this thread is only for those who want to discuss Christian Filmmaking, or films that are being shot, or planned to be shot with the Red or Red Products. Please act like grownups that we are, and don't get off topic.

There were too many responses in the last thread, so I have only posted a few people's projects.

Please add to the list, and I will update this original post.

Thanks to all that will contribute, and a special thanks to Lucas for giving us permission to give it another go. :calm:



CinematicFilm

Red#: 1043

Joseph;
I've been a Christian and a filmmaker shortly thereafter. We just produced a short for the 168 Project and came in sixth overall. We are working on our first feature film to be shot on Red right now.

The following is the short we entered in the 168 Project.
www.barrygregg.com/Nov


Michael_PlasterCITY
I did the 168FF in 2007. I used the Viper since Red wasn't around and I got it donated from some Christian folks at Panavision.
My website is www.michaelcioni.com and my 168 film is called "Birthright."
I'm posted probably over 50 Red projects. One of which I just completed was a music video for the new Prince Caspian movie shot on Red. It's directed by a Christian Director, Brandon Dickerson, also pastor of Ecclesia Church in Hollywood (www.churchinhollywood.com).
It's called "This is Home."


Jon Erwin
I'm a director and a Christian. Just wrapped up Casting Crowns music video "Slow Fade" on RED. . Currently shooting a Bible film series on RED. Love the camera.

www.erwinbrothers.com

[Tom Lowe]

Troll.

[Joseph Hutson]

Troll.

"Troll" a Christian film you will be shooting with your Red One?:glare:

Interesting.:biggrin:

[Anthony Gratl]

oh yeah I've heard of Troll.......Troll is a movie about a guy who just doesn't want to hear that noone wants to segregate people by either theology, race, creed, or orientation on this website called, get this, reduser, which you know, you could spin into some sort of digital stigmata or spear thrusting on a crucifix kind of thing.. Coincidentally, his name, like yours, is Joseph.
Anyways, so Joseph is really insistent that Christian filmmakers be given a special thread of their own, just cause, you know, he believes, and so the rest of us should honour that. It's a documentary film, still shooting actually, and the climax of the film will hopefully be the self realization that the main character feels when he realizes that religion actually offends many people because of it's long history of killing, raping, torturing, and molesting people while dressed in the cloak and words of "the saviour".
Should be a good film, Tom. It's almost like it's unfolding before me, for the second time.....

[Joseph Hutson]

Again, I would like for us to only add to the thread, instead of detracting it. Thank you.

[Anthony Gratl]

But I am adding to it Joseph....my post is very much on topic. We're talking about the christian film "Troll"....

[Joseph Hutson]

Meant to put this on the original post...


Here's a video we shot on RED for a Christian band, Casting Crowns..

http://new.music.yahoo.com/videos/CastingCrowns/Slow-Fade--60436536;_ylt=AgdtIXeU5KSg08QUKKJ71BGxvyUv

We've shot six music videos now on RED. I love it! One more for a band called Salvador is up on our site:
www.erwinbrothers.com

[J. Bernard Vallon]

If we are going to have this discussion I'd like to ask what makes a film 'christian'?

Its always been my opinion that nearly ALL hollywood films follow a very blatant judeo-christian theology, one that seems to exist in the very 'physics' of the narrative. Good characters tend to be rewarded for there actions when the chips finally fall, and villains get just-desserts, even to the point of improbability. In is only very recently, with films like No Country for Old Men and Million Dollar Baby, where closure and poetic justice seem to be thrown out the window, and the actual true-to-life results of peoples actions are put into the story.

The reason i think this is "judeo-christian" and not just morality, is it seems to follow along the lines of those cultures moral opinions.

My other issue with a christian film movement, is it tends to shake fingers at sexuality on screen, but not violence. I'd much rather my children see a gay couple kiss in a movie then to see a hero mow down an army of thugs without remorse. Which will warp my kids perspective on the world more?

Sorry to rant, but I have strong opinions too.

[Philipp Friesenbichler]

STOP abusing this forum for your trivial religious propaganda!

The Christian Bible is a drug store. Its contents remain the same; but the medical practice changes. For eighteen hundred years these changes were slight-scarcely noticeable. The practice was allopathic - allopathic in its rudest and crudest form. The dull and ignorant physician day and night, and all the days all the nights, drenched his patient with vast and hideous doses of the most repulsive drugs to be found in the store's stock; he bled him, cupped him, purged him, puked him, salivated him, never gave his system a chance to rally, nor nature a chance to help. Equal portions of baleful and debilitating poisons.

Goebbels (Hitler’s Minister of Propaganda) would be proud of today efforts of Christians and other organized Religions and their manipulative propaganda machines. Brainwashing starts with Communion!

If you consider yourself an intelligent, open minded, logical human being, please do mankind and evolution a big favor and strongly consider all the objective facts that point towards ATHEISM
(if you believe in Intelligent Design, Creationism,... sorry; Intellectual Salvation might not be an option for you anymore)

Religion caters to our inborn stupidity and our willingness to be persuaded against all the evidence surrounding us! Educate yourself! OPEN YOUR EYES!

STOP abusing this forum for your trivial religious propaganda!

[jaadgy akanni]

Hey, let those who wanna make christian films do their thing. To each his own. I myself prefer Batman or Iron Man to that other superhero...what's his name? Oh yeah, God. Anyway, not everyone has the gift of self-enlightenment. Some prefer to live in a fairy tale forever because it makes their lives more bearable.

[Ruairi Robinson]

I heard of a movie with a christian theme you might be interested in. It's about how Jesus died and was buried, and on the third day he rose from the grave... as a kill crazy zombie!

It's called ZOMBIE CHRIST.

[Kyle Presley]

You guys are a bunch of jerks. I f you don't agree with Joseph's beliefs, or the topic he posted, DON'T POST!!!!!!!!! I am a Christian filmmaker and the resistance to Christianity is appalling in the film industry. When was the last time religion ever hurt you?? I'm willing to bet never. Why all the hostility to someone who just wants to see a compilation of Christian films shot on RED? What's the harm in that? Go suck an egg. Get off your soapboxes.

[Brandon Fraley]

yep, agnostic myself, but this is the Off Topic forum after all. I mean, what if he started a thread to talk specifically about action filmmaking or horror filmmaking?

I say let him have his soap box. It's a free country, so yell at him if you want to, but it's kind of a waste of time in the grand scheme of things [I mean, isn't this his 3rd attempt at this thread? ;) ]

EDIT: BTW, is that Zombie Christ movie real? I'd kinda like to see that.

[Marc Berger]

Pf-films, Religious freedom is a human right. Religious threads don´t scare me, neither Christian ones, Hindu, Moslem, Buddhist... But I´m scared of fanatic, dogmatic believers.
Ask yourself, where is the close tolerance in this thread?
(BTW this is not a theological thread).
Regards
Marc

[Peter McCully]

The only belief system we should want to see expressed on this forum is the belief in a better digital filmmaking future. All else is irrelevant here.

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

Here we go again. :)


Maybe such threads are not entirely right, but banning them is also wrong. Just an opinion.

Maybe religion is wrong, but hating religion can... also be a kind of religion. A kind of POV.

If such threads are bad, people can just ignore them. Banning is kinda Nazi.

Or communist, if you will, since communists were\are overtly atheistic.

So, if the thread is wrong, just ignore it. People are not assembling bombs or planning mass suicides here.

Ignorism is a good path in life.

Turn on the firewall and be happy.

:sorcerer:

***

Let me just repeat that, for me, The Shawshank Redemption is the perfect example for what we're looking for.

Indirect, not propagandistic, not overtly religious even.

Simple, lifelike, believable, incredible.

Personally, I think that there's a huge difference between faith and religion, but that can is also full of worms.

Oh, well... :)

***

So, I'm working on a "miraculous" short which is about to be shot [hopefully] sometime next year.

If you guys are interested, I can tell you how we're doing.

I want to keep it as low-budget as possible [without compromising quality], we'll be shooting on the RED Scarlet and I would very much like to distribute it exclusively in the Internet, using these new free-legal-download models that exist.


That's all I have to say about that.


:biggrin:

[Anthony Gratl]

You guys are a bunch of jerks. I f you don't agree with Joseph's beliefs, or the topic he posted, DON'T POST!!!!!!!!!
On a forum like this, it's about keeping it secular. It's Joseph who shouldn't post about a specific religion. Not the rest of us.



I am a Christian filmmaker and the resistance to Christianity is appalling in the film industry. When was the last time religion ever hurt you?? I'm willing to bet never.

When was the last time religion ever hurt someone? Are you serious? You can't possibly be THAT blind. I mean c'mon dude, most of the world's wars are fought over differences concerning the invisible man and how far behind him he keeps the woman. Never mind the whole priest abuse situation, which i'm sure was going on a lot longer than when media first reported it. Religions damage the natural harmony and balance between people Kyle, and I despise it for that.


Why all the hostility to someone who just wants to see a compilation of Christian films shot on RED? What's the harm in that? Go suck an egg. Get off your soapboxes.

This community is clearly expressing itself that it doesn't like threads that are specifically talking about a certain religion. What about that doesn't make sense to you? It's you who needs to look for an egg. Religion is the soapbox

[Anthony Gratl]

Religious freedom is a human right

There's no such thing as religious freedom

[Joseph Hutson]

If we are going to have this discussion I'd like to ask what makes a film 'christian'?

A very good question.

I believe a Christian film does not have to be full of Scripture, and neither do I really like a film where they continually use Scripture to "fill up space in the Screenplay." There are a lot of "Christian" movies I don't really like because they aren't real life.

Instead, a Christian Film should be only based on Scripture. C.S. Lewis was a great author who demonstrated that.

Therefore my answer to your question would be, "A Christian Film is one that bases its Screenplay on the Bible's teachings."

[Joe Vinson]

Devil's advocate here...

Isn't there a rule about "adding to or taking away" from Scripture? Would a story that is "based" on, but deviates from, God's literal words be considered a form of idolatry?

Side note: I'm a big fan of the His Dark Materials books by Philip Pullman, so I was discouraged when the filmmakers neutered the "Golden Compass" story so as not to offend the fundamentalists, who ended up boycotting the movie anyway. So every time I get an angry email saying the ACLU is an intolerant, anti-religious organization that wants to remove God from American society, all I can think is: I don't recall any ACLU folks calling for a boycott of the Narnia films.

[jaadgy akanni]

Devil's advocate here...

Isn't there a rule about "adding to or taking away" from Scripture? Would a story that is "based" on, but deviates from, God's literal words be considered a form of idolatry?

Side note: I'm a big fan of the His Dark Materials books by Philip Pullman, so I was discouraged when the filmmakers neutered the "Golden Compass" story so as not to offend the fundamentalists, who ended up boycotting the movie anyway. So every time I get an angry email saying the ACLU is an intolerant, anti-religious organization that wants to remove God from American society, all I can think is: I don't recall any ACLU folks calling for a boycott of the Narnia films.

When you say "God's literal words" I assume "God" is some sort of metaphor, and last time I checked, metaphors can't write, only humans do. No "literal words" can come from an abstract idea.

[Matthew Rogers]

Hey Joseph, I am currently working on an adaptation of a small series of books about a missionary family in the jungles of Peru circa 1950's. The books (and script) focus on the kid's crazy adventures in the jungle. Some of the things they did were ride a log down the river, their parents let them go with the natives to capture some escaped convicts, and the entire family made a crazy trip across the mountain into Lima in an old beat up car. It should just be a solid, fun, family film.

Evolve, if you don't like the thread then don't read it and don't post in it. If a mod don't want this kind of thread then let them say so. Otherwise, just leave those of who would like to talk about alone please.

Matthew

[Marc Berger]

There's no such thing as religious freedom

The freedom of choice of a religion -"Religious liberty" and "Worldview"- and practice, following, are basically human rights. I´m not saying every country and every Religion respect this human rights.
(Sorry for my bad English)
Marc

[jon erwin]

Wow... The tone of this thread changed quick:) I'd comment but I don't come to this site to debate beliefs...I come to talk about the RED one (Something we all believe in)

We just wrapped on a Biblical project shot in Salt Lake and Orlando. We'll have a trailer soon, here are behind the scenes clips for now...
www.crown.org/shortfilms

To those of you outraged by a belief in God, you might find video journal 6 of particular interest...

[jon erwin]

C.S. Lewis also said... "The last thing the world needs is another Christian book... What the world needs are Christian authors." I'd rather be a Christian making great films in the secuar business of entertainment than putting myself in a box. I beleive being a Christian gives me the freedom to work on things I'm passionate about, whether they are overtly Christian or not...

[Anthony Gratl]

To those of you outraged by a belief in God, you might find video journal 6 of particular interest...

I am outraged by what is done in the name of god.

[Anthony Gratl]

C.S. Lewis also said... "The last thing the world needs is another Christian book... What the world needs are Christian authors." I'd rather be a Christian making great films in the secuar business of entertainment than putting myself in a box. I beleive being a Christian gives me the freedom to work on things I'm passionate about, whether they are overtly Christian or not...

Lewis understood that permeating christianity through metaphor and abstract idea was a far more powerful propaganda tool to getting people conditioned to the notion that christianity is a good thing, then hammering people over the head with theology......kinda like the title of this thread

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

You don't know what I'm prepared to do in the name of the RED One...

:)

[Joseph Hutson]

C.S. Lewis also said... "The last thing the world needs is another Christian book... What the world needs are Christian authors." I'd rather be a Christian making great films in the secuar business of entertainment than putting myself in a box. I beleive being a Christian gives me the freedom to work on things I'm passionate about, whether they are overtly Christian or not...

I totally agree.

[Gary McClurg]

C.S. Lewis also said... "The last thing the world needs is another Christian book... What the world needs are Christian authors." I'd rather be a Christian making great films in the secuar business of entertainment than putting myself in a box. I beleive being a Christian gives me the freedom to work on things I'm passionate about, whether they are overtly Christian or not...

My thoughts exactly... myself I'm a Christian who happens to be a filmmaker... the only thing I've done in the Christian realm have been a few music videos... mainly I do B movies... all secular...

[jpp]

I totally agree.

But you don't really agree, because if you did you wouldn't constantly be starting threads about "Christian filmmaking", in your sense of conforming to biblical scripture. C.S. Lewis did not believe the bible was the literal word of God in the way you do, and he would be appalled by the ignorance, superstition and anti-intellectualism of the American evangelical movement.

It's fine to say that anyone who isn't disposed to "Christian" filmmaking can simply ignore the thread, but we know in practice that doesn't happen. Joseph knows it better than anyone. And he knows that many people here find the whole idea of "Christian filmmaking", in his sense, offensive. But he refuses to respect their feelings, despite any number of other places where he could be having these discussions, online and off.

In that light, why blame the infidels for wanting to pull the megaphone off the wall, when they hear this stuff day and night in the U.S.? Not content with thoroughly infecting American life with diety politics, charlatan televangelists, right-wing economic policy and holy war, Christians of a certain type even insist on bringing their theology into equipment forums.

The only conclusion is, you're practicing your religion here.

[J. Bernard Vallon]

Hey Joseph, I am currently working on an adaptation of a small series of books about a missionary family in the jungles of Peru circa 1950's. The books (and script) focus on the kid's crazy adventures in the jungle. Some of the things they did were ride a log down the river, their parents let them go with the natives to capture some escaped convicts, and the entire family made a crazy trip across the mountain into Lima in an old beat up car. It should just be a solid, fun, family film.

Evolve, if you don't like the thread then don't read it and don't post in it. If a mod don't want this kind of thread then let them say so. Otherwise, just leave those of who would like to talk about alone please.

Matthew

This series sounds like it totally overlooks all the damage done by missionaries to native cultures around the world. We can thank missionaries for bringing Mosquitos to Hawaii to get the natives to wear clothes, and for burning 1000 years of Mayan liturature as demon worship. We still have no idea how the Mayans could have built such an acurate calander, and we never will thanks to there being only three surviving, very incomplete, codecs.

Missionary work is inharently intolorent of other religions.

[Joe Vinson]

And he knows that many people here find the whole idea of "Christian filmmaking", in his sense, offensive. But he refuses to respect their feelings, despite any number of other places where he could be having these discussions, online and off.

Eh... I kinda disagree with your conclusions here. I'm a very secular guy, but this kind of thing doesn't bug me. My main reaction is bemusement.

[Matthew Rogers]

This series sounds like it totally overlooks all the damage done by missionaries to native cultures around the world. We can thank missionaries for bringing Mosquitos to Hawaii to get the natives to wear clothes, and for burning 1000 years of Mayan liturature as demon worship. We still have no idea how the Mayans could have built such an acurate calander, and we never will thanks to there being only three surviving, very incomplete, codecs.

Missionary work is inharently intolorent of other religions.

And we can also thank these missionaries personally for changing the infant mortality from 80%+ to below 20%. I would never say that 100% of what missionaries have done has been good (everyone makes mistakes), but I still feel like there has been alot of good done. There has been alot of evil done in God's name and I don't condone that. That said, my movie is about the kid's adventures and not that much about the missionary work.

Matthew

[Priyesh P.]

This series sounds like it totally overlooks all the damage done by missionaries to native cultures around the world. We can thank missionaries for bringing Mosquitos to Hawaii to get the natives to wear clothes, and for burning 1000 years of Mayan liturature as demon worship. We still have no idea how the Mayans could have built such an acurate calander, and we never will thanks to there being only three surviving, very incomplete, codecs.

Missionary work is inharently intolorent of other religions.

Well said. Nothing to add...

[Noah Kadner]

For me it's a little too on the nose. I appreciate where Christian filmmakers are coming from and all but why wear on on the sleeve? Just be a good filmmaker first and your message will come through.

Otherwise you will only reach your fellow Christians, who probably need little more than reinforcement of beliefs they already hold true. Not going to gain too many new believers if you put them off at the door by being too 'preachy...' :spidy:

Noah

[Kholi Hicks]

For me it's a little too on the nose. I appreciate where Christian filmmakers are coming from and all but why wear on on the sleeve? Just be a good filmmaker first and your message will come through.

Otherwise you will only reach your fellow Christians, who probably need little more than reinforcement of beliefs they already hold true. Not going to gain too many new believers if you put them off at the door by being too 'preachy...' :spidy:

Noah


Couldn't agree more. That's the only thing that I can't really get into when dealing with Christian Films made by smaller production companies or younger Christians.

I don't need to be beat over the head in his name... and it's done way too often, so to the point that it becomes tacky.

There are a lot of films that follow Christian themes and deal with "God" or a supreme being quite personally. And they don't beat me over the head with theology either.

[Joseph Hutson]

Guys, I try my best to not derail anyone else's thread, therefore I would greatly appreciate it if you would return the courtesy and not discuss the reasons why Christians may not connect with other Christians, and get involved with their films here on RedUser.net

If you do want to carry on the discussion of whether I should be allowed to post a thread as I have, please start another one such as "Should we let Christians connect with other Christians on RedUser?"

I have started this thread with the Moderator's permission, so I am not doing anything out of line according to the rules(that I know of).

[Nick Gardner]

If you want to talk about christian film making go start your own f-ing forum. How many times do you have to go thru the same motions here before you get the hint.

I know you are like 17 years old and live in bible country, but seriously, take the damn hint and move on.

I just got back from a shoot in Israel, and the nuns at the convent I stayed at in Nazareth weren't as preachy as some of the folks on this thread.

[Anthony Gratl]

But you don't really agree, because if you did you wouldn't constantly be starting threads about "Christian filmmaking", in your sense of conforming to biblical scripture. C.S. Lewis did not believe the bible was the literal word of God in the way you do, and he would be appalled by the ignorance, superstition and anti-intellectualism of the American evangelical movement.

It's fine to say that anyone who isn't disposed to "Christian" filmmaking can simply ignore the thread, but we know in practice that doesn't happen. Joseph knows it better than anyone. And he knows that many people here find the whole idea of "Christian filmmaking", in his sense, offensive. But he refuses to respect their feelings, despite any number of other places where he could be having these discussions, online and off.

In that light, why blame the infidels for wanting to pull the megaphone off the wall, when they hear this stuff day and night in the U.S.? Not content with thoroughly infecting American life with diety politics, charlatan televangelists, right-wing economic policy and holy war, Christians of a certain type even insist on bringing their theology into equipment forums.

The only conclusion is, you're practicing your religion here.

An excellent articulation of what's happening here......the whole point of Joseph putting up the thread "christian filmmakers" is to push the idea of christians and christianity forward.

Joseph, you're actually very rude, and in my house, you'd be out the door, with me making sure it hit you in the ass on the way. And I NEVER ask
anyone out of my house.
So since this isn't my house I'll just put in a request with you: please take your religious zeal, your lame agenda using the red camera as cover, your endless insistance, and shove them, onto your own site.

[Anthony Gratl]

Interesting. I just went to your website Hudson. I see absolutely no mention of you being a christian, or about the christian films you're about to make, christian films you like, christian filmmakers you'd like to meet, or just plain how great it is to be one of you. Your NAME's not even on it...pourquoi pas? afraid that it'll turn off the people? Don't want to alienate anyone with some cash in their wallet?
You're actually pretty two faced about this whole christian thing....but thanks for subjecting us non-users of your services to your bs

[Martin Weiss]

How can it possibly be propaganda when someone wants to make a list of films that meet a certain criteria?


if you don't like the thread then don't read it and don't post in it.

Amen to that.

No pun intended. Wait, maybe it was.

[Anthony Gratl]

Evolve, if you don't like the thread then don't read it and don't post in it. If a mod don't want this kind of thread then let them say so. Otherwise, just leave those of who would like to talk about alone please.

Matthew

Interesting Matthew. Not only should I not post in it, I shouldn't read it either huh? Thanks for your concern, but I'm voicing an opinion. I know that that's not really tolerated in religion, but welcome to how the rest of the world operates. And I'm hardly the only one posting. The community has a say in what threads they all agree on.
As far as letting a "christian filmmakers" element develop on an otherwise secular forum the answer seems to continue to be no. Drawing people into cliques based on belief is not cool.
Again, like the last time Joseph started this bit, if y'all identify so strongly with being christian filmmakers who use red (why the camera factors into it I don't know), why don't you go and start your own site?
josephhudsonwantstoknow.net
redchristianfilmmakers.net
or
thesitewherepeoplecanttellyouthattheydontlikeyoupo stingreligiouslythemedideas.net

I identify strongly with not being religious, and the idea of "christian filmmakers" offends me. I don't like being reminded how distorted reality is for a great many people out there. I guess it's hard for you to see how difficult that makes it for the rest of us who have to live with delusional types on this planet, as the end result of your beliefs f**k with all of us on a daily basis.

[J. Bernard Vallon]

And we can also thank these missionaries personally for changing the infant mortality from 80%+ to below 20%. ...

Matthew

My wife has done a lot of research on the subject of natural—non interventive—child birth. The infant mortality rate for most native cultures is actually above US hospital births (which is actually one of the lowest in industrialized nations.) The idea that 8 out of 10 babies die at birth outside of the modern western hospital system is very colonialistic.

The biggest thing missionaries brought with them was disease.