Microsoft to stop selling Windows XP on Monday

[Sanjin Jukic]

Microsoft to stop selling Windows XP on Monday (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080630/ap_on_hi_te/microsoft_xp)

What about Scratch situation with that fact?

Update to Vista or...?

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

Hmm, I thought they stopped a year ago?

Or was it that they stopped installing it on laptops? :detective2:

[amrrahmy]

they stopped selling windows xp with new computer(like laptops), so that every thing new would have a windows vista certified logo thingy. then they stopped selling xp to corporations, it's a process thing, and that's the end of it.

[Pawel Achtel]

Update to Vista or...?

You buy the Vista virus and then you can officially downgrade to XP to make the 'puter operational :devil:

I think even Balmer realises they screwed up big time, for god's sake, they use the bloody damn thing themselves :)

[Sanjin Jukic]

I'm still not buying Vista but asking myself how Scratch can be installed on the system that you cannot buy anymore!?

[Richard Lackey]

Yep, I'm running XP Pro or XPx64 on all our machines, it's stable, always works (for me, but I keep the machines super clean), and believe it or not never crashes on me. I have vowed not to touch Vista, I'm sticking with XP until I have absolutely no choice, and even then I'd probably rather sell everything and move entirely onto an Apple platform (apart from the Scratch machine of course, Windows only).

[Pawel Achtel]

I'm still not buying Vista but asking myself how Scratch can be installed on the system that you cannot buy anymore!?
Neither do I , but, hmmm, not only Scratch but about 99% of other useful software out there doesn't run on Vista. Why would anyone with their right mind want it? :ranting2:

[Mark L. Pederson]

Update to Vista or...?

Windows Server 2003.

[Michael Schrengohst]

I bought my wife a new Dell about a 6 months ago and it came with Vista.
It's horrible. Microsoft will really boost Apple sales if they quit selling XP.

[Richard Lackey]

Microsoft will really boost Apple sales if they quit selling XP.

My sentiments exactly, I already think that if Apple released OSX generally for any PC into the market Microsoft would be in big trouble.

[Martin Weiss]

Microsoft will really boost Apple sales if they quit selling XP.

Are you suggesting that Microsoft if finally doing something right? ;)

That said, I am sure that if you can afford Scratch, you will find ways of getting Windows XP. I for one would happily trade my (for years unused) Windows XP box for your Red. Or Scratch, if you insist ;)

[Noah Kadner]

Wow- they really dropped the ball on Vista didn't they?

-Noah

[Jeff Kilgroe]

...I've got a dozen or so unused XP licenses and OEM packages. Might have to dust them off and put them on ebay in a few months. Although, just like all prior MS operating systems, XP will be easy to come by. This just means that now when we order up a new Dell or HP or whatnot, we can't choose XP as a configuration option.

That said, I've actually had an OK experience with Vista 64bit. It has been quite stable for me on several systems and I don't experience a lot of the compatibility problems some people rant about. I don't run too much software, I'm pretty selective and keep to what I need, don't install all sorts of crap and shovelware... XP is still more stable for me, but only after years of updates and service packs and continuous complaints by users, lest we forget that. Vista is more stable for me now than XP was the first couple years of its existence. Not that it justifies any of the problems or whatnot, perhaps that's why I'm predominantly a Mac guy these days when I was mostly a hard-core PC user only recently. The problem for me with Vista has been overall performance. It's a dog. It's a bloated whale. MS needs to suck it up, go back to the drawing board at stage one and design a new OS around the Windows kernel -- which is actually quite a good core implementation.

IMO, the biggest mistake Microsoft made with Vista was producing and selling 32bit versions. The next big mistake they made is selling all the different versions of the OS. They should have Vista and Vista Server and be done with it. ...Then again, these are the marketing geniuses that brought us the Zune in that attractive brown color and they refer to wireless music/ file sharing between Zune players as "squirting".

[Adam Clark]

yeah - ms really delivered the bs with vista.

[Fredrik Harreschou]

The problem with Vista and SCRATCH is the lack of Nvidia drivers. I've heard 2009...

[Adam Glick]

BOXX systems will ship with your choice of XP (or Server 2003) or Vista until the end of 2008.

Adam
BOXXlabs

[laguun]

Vista works excellent here. One of the main reason we are changing the networks over to vista is its extremly faster network transfer speed.

You have to be aware that the exact same topics always raise when Microsoft introduces a new OS. It was no different with Windows NT 3.51, NT 4.0, Windows 2000, Windows XP and will raise again when Windows 7 is released in 2010.

p.s. btw, the codename for windows 7 is "vienna".

[Sanjin Jukic]

p.s. btw, the codename for windows 7 is "vienna".

Interesting. Maybe they have a lot of coders here in TU WIEN.
(Technische Universität Wien, TU Wien, Vienna University of Technology.) (http://www.tuwien.ac.at/tu_vienna/)

[Adam Glick]

According to my contacts at PNY, Vista-compliant drivers for Quadro SDI for will be go beta next week.

I should get them here in the lab and will report my findings if able to do so.

[laguun]

BTW, windows 7 "surface" interface looks extremly innovative.

Its using the already available surface technology.
Have a look - its quite cool.
http://www.microsoft.com/surface/index.html

[Richard Lackey]

BTW, windows 7 "surface" interface looks extremly innovative.

Its using the already available surface technology.
Have a look - its quite cool.
http://www.microsoft.com/surface/index.html

Wow that's cool.

[Sanjin Jukic]

BTW, windows 7 "surface" interface looks extremly innovative.

Its using the already available surface technology.
Have a look - its quite cool.
http://www.microsoft.com/surface/index.html

Apple is a head away in it with iPhone. It's implemented in Mac OS X on iPhone almost two years ago.

[amrrahmy]

and there were rumors that they are integrating the multi-touch into next generation macs!!!, or making one tablet with multi-touch.

[Manolo S. Navazo]

I already think that if Apple released OSX generally for any PC into the market Microsoft would be in big trouble.

you know that you could conform your pc into a hackintosh? since leopard has came out, it is possible to boot apples leopard on pc's

take a look here http://dailyapps.net/2007/10/hack-attack-install-leopard-on-your-pc-in-3-easy-steps/

or make a search in youtube

.... perhaps a kool alternative for pc users who like to run redalert.
but pssssssssssst it is illegal :w00t:

[laguun]

Apple is a head away in it with iPhone. It's implemented in Mac OS X on iPhone almost two years ago.

The Opposite is the case.
Microsoft is many years ahead in visual interfacing, image-combining, touchUIs etc.

Much more impressive than the (selling and shipping) "Surface" technology are some other products.
"Seadragon" and "Photosynth", which both are available for download as well btw, are some of microsofts newer products and give a good idea how much Microsoft has advanced.

Have a look at this presentation, which is over one year old, - and compare it to iPhone or anything on OSX:
http://www.crazyleafdesign.com/blog/photosynth-prototype/

Seadragon is excellent to browse through 4K (or 80K) data.

Its doubtful Apple intends to catch up here. iTunes, iPod, iPhone etc are so much more in the focus of the company, and bringing so much more money. the iphone is less than one year old, not two btw.

[laguun]

but pssssssssssst it is illegal :w00t:
That depends on your countries laws. In Germany its legal as long you dont alter anything in the OS.

[Manolo S. Navazo]

That depends on your countries laws. In Germany its legal as long you dont alter anything in the OS.

hi laguun,
are you sure? i don't think so. it's a hack that you could boot leopard into pc's. it would not work if you buy leopard osx in a apple store and try to boot it on your pc.

greetz

[laguun]

hi laguun,
are you sure? i don't think so. it's a hack that you could boot leopard into pc's. it would not work if you buy leopard osx in a apple store and try to boot it on your pc.

greetz

Hacking OSX isnt legal. Having a bootloader before OSX however is legal in germany AFAIK and thats all what it needs - i am not a lawyer but putting os & applications on other platforms or removing dongles has been allowed by the german courts in the late 90ties iirc.
However you are *certainly* not allowed to resell such computers with apple osx.

[Mark L. Pederson]

Microsoft is many years ahead in visual interfacing, image-combining, touchUIs etc.

these are the guys to place your bets on folks -

http://www.synaptics.com/

[Adam Glick]

There is at least one "PC" maker here in the states that is challenging Apple and the courts on this - and is selling "Mac clone" workstations and servers running OSX Leopard.

http://www.psystar.com/index.php

I know there is at least one facility running Leopard on a redBOXX.

It's not supported by us or Apple (obviously) but apparently it works...

Again, I am NOT advocating this...i'm just sayin'...

[Jeff Kilgroe]

That depends on your countries laws. In Germany its legal as long you dont alter anything in the OS.

You would still be in violation of the licensing terms of the software. Last time I checked, Germany still took IP licensing and copyrights seriously. This is pretty much the same in the USA / Canada and presumably elsewhere. By simply maintaining an un-altered copy of OSX, you're not breaking any laws. But when it comes to intellectual property, fair use and licensing terms, it's still not allowed by the IP owners -- in this case, Apple. And they can take legal action against people who do run it on non-licensed hardware. There have already been several PC companies who have started to sell Mac clones running OSX, only to be shut down by Apple. One or two are getting away with it successfully right now due to one or two loop-holes in Apples licensing agreements.

Personally, I think Apple WANTS some hackintosh systems out there. It's one more way to proliferate their OS in the market and they are not obligated to provide any support or guarantees. If Apple didn't want Hackintosh systems, they would have integrated some key component of the OS on a proprietary ROM or linked the software to some unique hardware component in the Intel Mac systems. They still could for future systems and revisions of the OS, but I doubt they will.

[Richard Lackey]

you know that you could conform your pc into a hackintosh? since leopard has came out, it is possible to boot apples leopard on pc's

take a look here http://dailyapps.net/2007/10/hack-attack-install-leopard-on-your-pc-in-3-easy-steps/

or make a search in youtube

.... perhaps a kool alternative for pc users who like to run redalert.
but pssssssssssst it is illegal :w00t:

I was there already more than a year ago. I had OSX 10.4.3 running on my Dell Inspiron 8600, to be honest it sucked, driver support was the biggest issue. I haven't revisited it until this past weekend trying to get the same 10.4.3 install to work on one of the dual-quad Xeon's, the install hangs and I haven't had time to troubleshoot.

It's more playing with it that interests me than anything else, firstly it's illegal, secondly it would have to prove as stable as Windows for me to even consider using it this way. I'd rather buy a Mac than waste time hacking drivers and trying to trick OSX to work with otherwise unsupported hardware combinations.

[Richard Lackey]

If Apple didn't want Hackintosh systems, they would have integrated some key component of the OS on a proprietary ROM or linked the software to some unique hardware component in the Intel Mac systems.

I thought they did this with the TPM (Trusted Platform Module)

http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/TPM

[laguun]

You would still be in violation of the licensing terms of the software. Last time I checked, Germany still took IP licensing and copyrights seriously.
Funny enough, in the E.U. laws have been softened due to microsoft.

There have several complaints regarding microsofts policy, to allow Windows Variants distributed by SBE -only- to be used with the computers they have been "intended" or "distributed" with. The highest E.U. courts together with the E.U. Anti-Trust departement then have forbidden those licenses, rendering such license terms null and void.

Furthermore, several owners of high-end applications who couldnt use their software version due to dongle copy-protection sued the software manufacturers to allow them the removal of copy-protection, which also was approved by the courts.

I am no lawyer, but these decision were pretty principal, and for software generally.

I know many perfectly running osx systems on many pcs first hand - all with bootloaders, none with patched OSX kernels. They are pretty common here in berlin, especially in the music production scene.

I think i will ask one of our lawyers to check the apple eula regarding if it is according to german law - many large corporate behemonths often try or unintentionally try to come around the legislation.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I thought they did this with the TPM (Trusted Platform Module)

Yes, but it's surprisingly easy to circumvent... As if bypassing it was almost an intended design characteristic. Like I said, I truly believe that Apple wants a certain % of the market to be made of Hackintosh systems.


There have several complaints regarding microsofts policy, to allow Windows Variants distributed by SBE -only- to be used with the computers they have been "intended" or "distributed" with. The highest E.U. courts together with the E.U. Anti-Trust departement then have forbidden those licenses, rendering such license terms null and void.

Interesting. I've heard of some of the conflicts with EU agencies and Microsoft, but I guess I haven't really followed up on the outcome. I suppose if a legislative agency in your country decides that a license agreement should be null and void, then so be it. Not sure that makes it right and not sure how or where they would draw the line as to which agreements are acceptable and which are not. I seem to recall that Microsoft had to re-write their EULAs for European distribution to accommodate local laws in various countries. It's like reading various software disclaimers and EULAs for the USA with all sorts of exceptions depending on which state the software is owned and used in.

Of course, there are usually ways to get around licensing restrictions... And for small companies and individual users, it's typically a non-issue anyway. Unless someone is blatantly abusing the license, distributing illegal copies, etc..

[Manolo S. Navazo]

hey laguun,

do you got somewhere a link to boot leopard with an instruction via bootloader?

i don't understand what is a kernel and what is a bootloader. perhaps i like to make a try , and test how good or bad leopard is working on pc.

thx

[laguun]

hey laguun,

do you got somewhere a link to boot leopard with an instruction via bootloader?

i don't understand what is a kernel and what is a bootloader. perhaps i like to make a try , and test how good or bad leopard is working on pc.

thx
http://www.insanelymac.com/

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

And now I'm dreaming about Steve Jobs announcing the Mac OS for PC.

Yes, I know all the hackintosh stuff. It doesn't cut it for me.

[Adam Glick]

And now I'm dreaming about Steve Jobs announcing the Mac OS for PC.

Yes, I know all the hackintosh stuff. It doesn't cut it for me.

I think that will NEVER Happen...

Apple is in the hardware business - not the software business. Everything Apple does - everything - is designed to sell more Apple hardware.

I might eat my words someday, but I can't imagine a day that we see "OSX" officially being sold to run on anmything other than Apple hardware.