Workflows for Ultra lows

[Eli]

For ultra low productions do student, etc. Keep their workflow in Prores all the way through color grading?

I am organizing a Post workflow for an ultralow budget. I found that it would be at least advisable to work with a DPX for color grading.

But really wouldn't the cheapest way to stay in 2k Prores until the final output in HD? I hate to ask it because I would love to have a more sophisitcated workflow. So is this the cheapest way if utilizing FCP and AE for VFX and COLOR for grading? Should I use AE for grading?

Thanks guys.

e

[Adam Glick]

......

[Gunleik Groven]

Prores is the cheapest... But do you really want to do that to your footage?

[donatello b]

" if utilizing FCP and AE for VFX and COLOR for grading? Should I use AE for grading?"

will AE open/play ProRes clips ?

[Fredrik Callinggard]

For ultra low productions do student, etc. Keep their workflow in Prores all the way through color grading?

I am organizing a Post workflow for an ultralow budget. I found that it would be at least advisable to work with a DPX for color grading.

But really wouldn't the cheapest way to stay in 2k Prores until the final output in HD? I hate to ask it because I would love to have a more sophisitcated workflow. So is this the cheapest way if utilizing FCP and AE for VFX and COLOR for grading? Should I use AE for grading?

Thanks guys.

e

To start with how long is the project? If it's a short under 10min and the on line is not to heavy I would go for DPX in the end.

Edit Prores

Colorgrade and on line in DPX


The only extra cost would be the price of crimsonworkflow and time of course.

PS AE is cool for grading but if you have FCP I suggest Color. It's really good.

Fredrik

[Harky Jewett]

PS AE is cool for grading but if you have FCP I suggest Color. It's really good.

So if you were using Color, would you conform the Prores edit using crimson, transcode to DPX using Redcine and then move into Color for final color?

Once the project is graded what's the best way to get from there to an HD finish on Bluray, for example, or even an SD finish?

Hope these aren't silly questions, trying to work out an acceptable way to finish on a student project we're working on now.

Thanks,

Harky

[Chris Kenny]

If you do any heavy grading in RedCine before transcoding, and your highest quality deliverable is 1080p for broadcast or Blu-Ray, DPX probably isn't worth the extra time and trouble for most projects. Stick with ProRes.

If you're planning to do a film-out or create a DCI package, then a DPX is the way to go.

[Fredrik Callinggard]

OK

Edit prores files in FCP, make an FCP xml.

Use crimson to get a REDCINE xml.

In REDCINE you use camera RGB and redlog as project settings.

Render 2K DPX files and send them into Color to colorgrade

Voila you have a grade that is good enough for the silver screen.

Fredrik

[Harky Jewett]

Great! Thank you.

I'm guessing the biggest trouble with working with DPX is the transcoding times (and the fact that you'll need to conform the files which means I'll need to get crimson if we decide to go that route).

[Eli]

To start with how long is the project? If it's a short under 10min and the on line is not to heavy I would go for DPX in the end.

Edit Prores

Colorgrade and on line in DPX


The only extra cost would be the price of crimsonworkflow and time of course.

PS AE is cool for grading but if you have FCP I suggest Color. It's really good.

Fredrik


So are you saying that we could possibly go through the entire workflow using Prores? I realize that using a DPX is better but like you said it could cost a little more. Couldn't we work in Prores out of AE as well?

[Dustin Cross]

Eli,

What is you final output? SD DVD? TV? Beta or HDCAM for festivals?

If you are low budget, I would stay with Prorez all the way though. Save the Red files so you can come back to the project and make it better if there is a reason.

Shoot Red.

Batch convert all your footage to 1080p Prorez.

Edit Prorez.

If you are not happy with the basic look of your files and you can't get primary color correction to do make things look right. Open the clips that need to be fixed in Red Alert and fix them. Then render out new Prorez files for those clips. Write the new file over the old Prorez file you used in the edit. This way FCP replace the old with the new.

Now you should have an FCP timeline that looks pretty good.

Color correct with your prefered tool. Apple Color, AE, Colorista, etc.

I left out audio and VFX, do those how you would normally.

You might want to make DPX files or work in 4k for you VFX shots. AE is cheap and can handle it. Render your finished shots in 1080p Prorez and lay them over your FCP project. By this I mean don't over right the source footage on your timeline incase you ever need to go back to it.

render your completed project.

Go win awards and get a distributor to pick up your project. Tell them you still have all the 4k source material and they can do a proper 4k film out for your theatrical release.

I say work in 1080p because most studio monitors and equipment that low budget projects can afford to not do 2k.

Plenty of people win major festivals and get distribution deals with footage from a DVX or HVX that is nowwhere near as good as the 1080p Prorez footage you will have.

Just because you can afford to shoot in 4k doesn't mean you need to finish in 4K.


Mahalo,
Dusty

[Joe G.]

Dusty and Frederick:

I'm a little unclear about how the compositing and green screen stuff gets done (in a 2k DI for cinema release).

You've got 4k files.

You're working in 1080p.

You're putting composited stuff together...

How does this fit together when you're "conforming" and how do you work with the higher resolution files to get the compositing and rotoscoping perfect?

Are you saying that you would open up the high res files (4k, or 2k) and work directly with them in After Effects, and then output a new composited clip, import that new clip back into the timeline?

Can After Effects handle 4k files?

Are there limitations to this approach?

I really need to work out how green screen compositing and rotoscoping are going to be feasible, and in the end have a professional quality 2k film to output to 35mm prints. (Before I start.)

[aikenfilms]

Fredrik says :
**
OK

Edit prores files in FCP, make an FCP xml.

Use crimson to get a REDCINE xml.

In REDCINE you use camera RGB and redlog as project settings.

Render 2K DPX files and send them into Color to colorgrade

Voila you have a grade that is good enough for the silver screen.

Fredrik
**

Is there any reason why the Quicktime Proxy files can't be used for the FCP phase of the editing ?

[Harky Jewett]

Is there any reason why the Quicktime Proxy files can't be used for the FCP phase of the editing ?

I think the only reason to go to prores for an offline edit, instead of using the proxies, is that FCP handles Prores much better than the proxy files. For larger projects and complicated edits, FCP will slow down significantly or just crash if you work with the proxies depending on your computer.

My macbook cannot handle the proxy files well at all. An eight core tower might be a different story...

[Dustin Cross]

Even on an OctoCore Mac with fast raid the Proxy files are a pain to edit for longer or more complex projects.

For VFX, yes AE can easily handle 4k and much bigger. Make your Prorez files and edit your project. Then find the clips on your FCP timeline that need VFX work. Open those clips in Red Alert or Redcine, set in and out points, and export 2k or 4k DPX files or what ever you want to work with. Bring those files into AE (or any other compositing app) and do you composite. Render the final composite as 1080p Prorez (or whatever your FCP timeline is). Then edit the rendered VFX shots on your FCP timeline. Done.

Does that answer your questions?

mail4joeg - If you have budget for the $50k to do a 2k film out, you should have enough budget to get people who know how to properly finish your project for a film out. Don't think you can read a couple internet forums and know how to get everything correct. If you are going to do it on your own, find the transfer house you are going to use and ask them EXACTLY what they need from you.


Mahalo,
Dusty

[Eli]

thanks Dusty for all your input. You guys are doing a great job out there.

Go Longhorns

e

[Cüneyt Kaya]

go the pro res route if indy style is needed.

with dpx there are some things which will make you headaches.

if you export with redlog, you need a custom LUT for COLOR, i think prolost did break down a redlog-to-lin for After effects, from here you need a lin-to-vid ( stu calls it vid)

same goes for COLOR....but there is no redlog to...lin LUT for Color...

too complicated.

[Eli]

Are my calculations right on storage? roughly 2gigs per minute for the 4k red footage.

Thanks