Surprise...?

[Jannard]

We were trying to hold off talking about this until the codec errors were completely killed (we think they are with the build coming in a day or two), but there has already been some discussion about this so here you go:

The RED ONE will soon be able to shoot 4.5K, 2.40:1 at 30fps. Expect to see this very soon.

Jim

[Ryo Rex]

NICE! :w00t:

[Sanjin Jukic]

The RED ONE will soon be able to shoot 4.5K, 2.40:1 at 30fps. Expect to see this very soon.

Jim

Amazing!!!

..., Super 35 creates a 2.40:1 aspect ratio with an overall negative area
of 240 square millimetres (0.372 sq in), only 9 mm² (0.014 sq in) less than the 1.85:1 crop
of the Academy frame (248.81 mm² or 0.386 sq in).[39] The cropped frame is then converted
at the intermediate stage to a 4-perf anamorphically squeezed print compatible with the anamorphic projection standard.
This allows an "anamorphic" frame to be captured with non-anamorphic lenses, which are much more common, less expensive,
faster, smaller, and optically superior to equivalent anamorphic lenses.[39]

LINK>>> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/35_mm_film)

[Andrae Palmer]

WICKEDDDDDD as we say in Jamaica mon. :)

[Álex Montoya]

That's VERY big.

[Martin Weiss]

Lovely.

If you guys keep up this pace of improving I do not know what sort of wondermachine I can expect in November...

[Miltos Pilalitos]

A M A Z I N G ! ! !

[G.A. Kokes]

Thanks!

G

[Ryan Manes]

And I need Epic why?
You better slow down Jim, now you are starting to compete with yourself.

[Bing Bailey]

holy moly , you know I think I'll just never complain again :) LOL you guys are just going from strenght to strenght. seeing what you are achieving and whats to come just blows my mind. no camera has ever been this cool.

I think the firmware update you could do yourself just might be one of the most amazing inventions in the 21st century. I think everything electronic should be firmware updatable. what a way to build customer loyalty

Bing

[Jannard]

And I need Epic why?
You better slow down Jim, now you are starting to compete with yourself.

Are you assuming you know what Epic is? :-)

Jim

[Alexander Christ]

Amazing news, thanks for that!

[Ryan Manes]

Are you assuming you know what Epic is? :-)

Jim
True, I'll Shut up now.

[Stephen Webb]

Cheers Jim,

It's one of my pet requests that I've been going on about for ages - nice to know you heard!

[Tobias Straka]

You guys never stop to amaze me...

[Steve Freebairn]

Are you assuming you know what Epic is? :-)

Jim

Isn't Epic 8K? I know what my pamphlet says, but I have a good feeling that Epic is way more than just 5k. Or it's the best 5K you've ever seen, with really high frame rates.

[Anders Holck]

:-)

--

[Jim Exton]

Are you assuming you know what Epic is? :-)

Jim

Based on how you guys operate, I am willing to be Epic is going to be more than 5k. I think Epic will turn out to be at least a 6k camera.

[Steve Murray]

We're not worthy - We're not worthy

Thanks for making my day... again.

[Cüneyt Kaya]

10 months, uploading new cam, cheap...
man and now 4,5k enabled....speechless

[mikeburton]

Jim, if you could enable the LCD/EFV desqueeze to go with this amazing piece of information you just shared I will do a cartwheel on the ceiling :) This is freakin incredible! I couldn't ask for anything more as this compliments my anamorphic set I'm putting together.

[Ricardo Mehedff]

very cool!! i've been shooting 4k 2:1 but always framing for 2.40:1
thanks!!!

[Tico Llaurador]

Wow... these are most excellent news, Jim.

Thanks!

[Álex Montoya]

Jim, when you say "very soon"...?

[Thom Steinhoff]

Smoken!!!

[M Hsu]

this is why we ask you for ridiculous requests jim, because you keep fulfilling them.

[patrickortman]

Jim is my hero. Now, if production and shipping do really, really well this month, perhaps, oh, 64 "extra" Red Ones will be available for delivery? #2464 is communicating with me telepathically, saying it wants to arrive shortly :-).

[Bing Bailey]

I know what epic is , its a very large steak being driven into the hearts of anyone who still thinks RED isn't the real deal.

[RivaiC]

We were trying to hold off talking about this until the codec errors were completely killed (we think they are with the build coming in a day or two), but there has already been some discussion about this so here you go:

The RED ONE will soon be able to shoot 4.5K, 2.40:1 at 30fps. Expect to see this very soon.

Jim

Yes, this is amazing. Thanks Jim. I can send you delicious original home made marquisa, something u cannot get in your place.

This is truly amazing

[C.H.Haskell]

WTF? Thanks again Jim and RED team!

[Gunleik Groven]

Me like.
I almost cannot not just put B16 in, now...

Waitinf codec errors and crimson to unite to a better whole...

G

[mikeburton]

oh, that would make sense. Still very cool though.

[Daniel Reichenbach]

We were trying to hold off talking about this until the codec errors were completely killed (we think they are with the build coming in a day or two)

Jim oh yes, please, have a major greenscreen shooting on Thursday. Would be nice to jump on it. And as always: love that cam....

[Sudhir Chaudhary]

Lovely :)

[Yannick Sadler]

It Christmas every month at RED... It's like buying a CD audio player that you can upgrade to a Blu-Ray player for free with a firmware release...

[Yannick Sadler]

Are you assuming you know what Epic is? :-)

We've only got what you gave us at NAB and on the web site. And pretty much everything said there is or will soon be integrated into RED ONE.

So to beat the the improvement curve of the RED One, the Epic would have to be something like a 8K (if not 16K), 3200 ISO native sensor, 20 bits D/A, universal prime lens (any length you wish in a single lens at F1.0), 5000 FPS, terabyte CF, realtime debayering, weight 3 pounds and be able to run for 20 hours on a single AAA battery. And it would be nice if it could serve ice mokaccino on the set between the takes.

Can you do that Jim? ;-)

[Lewis-M Soucy]

At that pace, they'll be a GPS in the firmware when I get mine... I'm not due until september and already, my wife is sooo "blazé" with all the news and excitement I tell her everyday about this camera I still don"t have... You should see her face now...

[Cüneyt Kaya]

So to beat the the improvement curve of the RED One, the Epic would have to be something like a 8K (if not 16K), 3200 ISO native sensor, 20 bits D/A, universal prime lens (any length you wish in a single lens at F1.0), 5000 FPS, terabyte CF, realtime debayering, weight 3 pounds and be able to run for 20 hours on a single AAA battery. And it would be nice if it could serve ice mokaccino on the set between the takes.


you missed the announcment.
you are talking about RED LEGEND.

Did you hear about RED HERO?

---btw. arent there some .jim files....hehe

[Gunleik Groven]

Epic?

Yup, I know what it is:

It's better than RED, basically because it's your second (or third) cam.
It will have better/newer processors.
New batteryplate :)
More rez
Less compression
Higher fps
And be directly aimed at Phantom/Genesis/F35/D21 (not that the O<NE isn't aiming at those already)
In smaller markets, film will be more or less booed out by the release of EPIC. EPIC is a shot @ the higher budget markets.

I think...

Back on topic...

[number6]

Jim, or Graeme, or anybody with red letters... some time ago Graeme explained that for this or that reason, only x (70-odd percent?) of the sensor was being used in 4K, 3K etc.

Question is, what will be the new useable resolution of the 4.5K that will be enabled in the new Build 16? Will it follow that same formula?

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=204110#post204110

[Jason Diamond]

WOW! thanks, it makes sense that with knowledge gained you could grease more info out of that purty sensor.

im assuming (ASS out of U and ME) that Epic will be far far more than the NAB spec terminator that was there. just a hunch.

[Adrian T.]

Cool! :biggrin:

[Jens Jakob Thorsen]

This is great news! If it it at all possible I would LOVE to shoot 4:3 4,5K and get higher res when I use my Anas......

[Ido Karilla]

This is amazing!

Friday we have a little confernce for the DP's, first AC's, soundmans etc. Will I have to revise my notes by then?

Thank you.

[Chris Gearhart]

Well, I now have a total of 9K between my two cameras.

Cool.

[CJ Roy]

Wow. Defending the Red on sets just got easier.

Thanks Jim.

[Johann Schulz]

Obviously this means picture quality++, and as I can't shake the hands of those involved, and I'm residing in Asia, I now see the wall, now the floor, now the wall, and again the floor. Seriously, you won't lose us with this kind of work.

[Vigen Vartanov]

Very COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLL.

[Jannard]

This is great news! If it it at all possible I would LOVE to shoot 4:3 4,5K and get higher res when I use my Anas......

Not going to ever happen with the RED ONE (don't get greedy on us). :-)

You'll need Epic for this one.

Jim

[PaulClements]

Not going to ever happen with the RED ONE (don't get greedy on us). :-)

You'll need Epic for this one.

Jim
So Epic will have a 4:3 sensor and therefore be able to use full 2:1 Anamorphic lenses then? If so this is great news.

Paul

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Not going to ever happen with the RED ONE (don't get greedy on us). :-)

You'll need Epic for this one.

Jim

YEEEESSSSSS you just confirmed my suspicion for the choice of name. I can't wait for you to bankrupt me Mr Jannard.


Fredrik


1 RED, 2 more 2 go and 3 EPIC in the end (might throw in a few scarlet)

[PaulClements]

To confirm the size of the new format will be 4520 x 1883?

Paul

[laguun]

what an excellent surprise!
wow. thank you!

one question regarding lenses:
recording 4.5K will exceed standard S35 i suppose, so not all lenses will be able to cover the 4.5 range, correct?

[Martin Weiss]

I'm not due until september and already, my wife is sooo "blazé" with all the news and excitement I tell her everyday about this camera I still don"t have.
I know exactly what you are talking about. My wife has to endure it til November. (But I did go and see "Sex and the City" with her. So I guess we are even...

Maybe there should be a special "Support group for wives of not-quite Red owners"

[Adam Clark]

its so funny to hear about you guys and telling your wives about the cam. i am, of course, in the same boat and so is my wife ;)

[Cüneyt Kaya]

I know exactly what you are talking about. My wife has to endure it til November. (But I did go and see "Sex and the City" with her. So I guess we are even...

Maybe there should be a special "Support group for wives of not-quite Red owners"

my wife says:" are you looking for that b*tch again?"
and then ironically:
"cant wait to live with the second wife."

[Sanjin Jukic]

what an excellent surprise!
wow. thank you!

one question regarding lenses:
recording 4.5K will exceed standard S35 i suppose, so not all lenses will be able to cover the 4.5 range, correct?

Take Leica-R the same lenses as Dalsa did for Origin 4K lens set.

You are save then.

[Ruairi Robinson]

Excellent.

Er... at the risk of sounding like a stuck record though, any chance we could get the anamorphic mode to record the surround area top and bottom, and the ability to view unsqueezed on the lCD monitor outputs...?

I've asked for these about a billion times now, it would be nice to at least have it acknowledged that it's something being worked on... or not...

[Jannard]

To confirm the size of the new format will be 4520 x 1883?

Paul

It is being finalized but I think we have landed on 4480 x 1874.

Jim

[jbeale]

I have noticed that Jim likes surprises. Maybe they are planning to work on it but prefer to keep it under wraps. Also, if they do say they are working on something, I wonder if it's an invitation for more people to complain about WHEN promised feature X will be done... just a guess...

[Adam Levins]

Ruairi's Avatar looks like it just ate a few RED's

That's one hungry robot

[A. Bastaki]

now what are we going to Record on. is it going to be RED Flash?
and with that.. do we get the 4k 60fps on RED Flash too?

[Axel Mertes]

Jim, if you could enable the LCD/EFV desqueeze to go with this amazing piece of information you just shared I will do a cartwheel on the ceiling :) This is freakin incredible! I couldn't ask for anything more as this compliments my anamorphic set I'm putting together.

Hi Mike,

I guess you got something wrong here.

Jim explained we get a native 2.4:1 mode, so this does NOT use any anamorphic lenses at all. In fact, to create a 2:1 squashed cinemascope filmout you actually need to squash the image when recording it to film.

The new mode is a 1:1 pixel mode and does not have anamorphic pixels. In fact that whish would exceed RED ONE's capabilities, as it would need to record 4.5k by 3.75k in anamorphic mode, which is already way larger than the sensor is, not to speak about its unfortunately too excessive pixel amount that exceeds the pixel compression speed of RED ONE's encoder.

But still the desqueeze function would be cool for those using anamorphic lenses in other modes...

Just to be clear.

Axel

[Antoine Baumann]

recording 4.5K will exceed standard S35 i suppose, so not all lenses will be able to cover the 4.5 range, correct?

That is one of my late question: does 4520x2540 is the 24.4mmx13.7mm?

thanks,
antoine.

[mikeburton]

Hi Mike,

I guess you got something wrong here.

Jim explained we get a native 2.4:1 mode, so this does NOT use any anamorphic lenses at all. In fact, to create a 2:1 squashed cinemascope filmout you actually need to squash the image when recording it to film.

The new mode is a 1:1 pixel mode and does not have anamorphic pixels. In fact that whish would exceed RED ONE's capabilities, as it would need to record 4.5k by 3.75k in anamorphic mode, which is already way larger than the sensor is, not to speak about its unfortunately too excessive pixel amount that exceeds the pixel compression speed of RED ONE's encoder.

But still the desqueeze function would be cool for those using anamorphic lenses in other modes...

Just to be clear.

Axel

Yeah, I shortly realized that after I posted. Jumped too soon but thanks for the explanation anyhow. The Desqueeze is all i really want anyhow.

[Jannard]

I doubt we can do a de-squeeze on the LCD monitor path, but there are external monitors that do that.

Jim

[Yannick Sadler]

I know exactly what you are talking about. My wife has to endure it til November. (But I did go and see "Sex and the City" with her. So I guess we are even...

Maybe you can get as far as an Epic with that!


Maybe there should be a special "Support group for wives of not-quite Red owners"

Hahaha, SGWNQRO !

[Obin Olson]

Jim GET OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Axel Mertes]

We were trying to hold off talking about this until the codec errors were completely killed (we think they are with the build coming in a day or two), but there has already been some discussion about this so here you go:

The RED ONE will soon be able to shoot 4.5K, 2.40:1 at 30fps. Expect to see this very soon.

Jim

Jim,

as we are on it (again):

When will there be a custom mode, that we can adjust freely between x and y resolution and resulting possible maximum frame & compression rates?

Most industrial cameras support modes like this, so you have adjustable windowing / region of interest and adjustable frame rates, exposure time etc.

I really like the idea of supporting new modes, but in the long end we would need dozens of modes, which could mean a lot of confusion for a user.

Therefor I strongly vote for having the chance to make user adjustable presets, which we can store and recall, and also share here on the list if require (by exchanging the "dimension" values here).

Many wanted e.g. highspeed at lower resolutions, or very excessive modes like 4K * 0.5K at higher frame rates, or 3K * 2.5K anamorphic just to name a few. We had many threads about such wishes, each wish being valid for the particular user(s) asking them.

So it sound to me like a wise decision to consider having a "custom" mode that allow all the users to cover such modes within some typical given restriction if required. Such restriction could even be coming from the codecs, like requiring x/y axis to be multiples of 2, 4, 8 or 16 etc. - such typical stuff...

We know there is a maximum pixel compression speed, a maximum line read-out speed, limitations on full-well-capacities for exposure, sensor width/height etc.

So give us something to play even more excessive than what we have right now.

And, not to forget:

Thanks for what you and your team have achieved until now. You made us feel a lot of our days way brighter...

Cheers,
Axel

[mikeburton]

I doubt we can do a de-squeeze on the LCD monitor path, but there are external monitors that do that.

Jim

I know, just wishing we wouldn't have to rent one every time. I know its only a small percentage of us that need/want this feature but it would be really nice if this was possible.

[Ruairi Robinson]

I doubt we can do a de-squeeze on the LCD monitor path, but there are external monitors that do that.

Jim

That's not the can-do attitude I would expect from you guys.

A $17 grand 4k resolution camera you can do, in spite of people everywhere saying it's impossible, but anamorphic desqueeze on the monitor, oh my god that's just asking too much...

I mean why on earth would you want to support anamorphic lenses? It's not like anyone uses these lenses any more... except, you know... Chris Nolan, Michael Bay, JJ Abrams, Stephen Soderberg, PT Anderson, Stephen Spielberg, Louis Leterrier, Francis Lawrence and Wes Anderson all shooting their latest movies on anamorphic lenses. Yeah, except for those guys, nobody uses these lenses any more.

R.

[James Brundige]

I know what Epic is -- the end of my plan to not spend everything I make on more gear. Keep up the great work!

[Axel Mertes]

I doubt we can do a de-squeeze on the LCD monitor path, but there are external monitors that do that.

Jim

Jim,

I guess many of us would accept if the image misses every second vertical row, or gets two rows merged, or every second line simply doubled. No one expects a smooth scaler here, but a usable image for framing in 1:1.

Like we still wish for the 1:1 pixel zoom :)

Ok, you gave us a small finger and we try to catch the whole hand. Take it as "good meant suggestions" and not as "they can't get enought" (because the latter has driven us all here...).

Thank you so much, so far,

Axel

[Richard Lackey]

I can't believe it. This is the most exciting piece of news I have heard all year! OK, where's my email?

[Mark L. Pederson]

I doubt we can do a de-squeeze on the LCD monitor path, but there are external monitors that do that.

Jim

What some third-party COULD do - is make a small box - lemo in and lemo out - just enough of a board/chip to de-squeeze the anamorphic - put it between the camera and the EVF -

Yeah I know - all the graphics/meters would be distorted - but who cares - we want them gone anyway -

Put a button on the box - de-sqeeze the DVI - send it on down the path to the EVF -

I think this would sell like hot cakes - DPs/operators don't want to look at a client monitor when shooting anamorphic -

PS - AWESOME move on the 4.5K 2.40 -

[Jannard]

That's not the can-do attitude I would expect from you guys.

A $17 grand 4k resolution camera you can do, in spite of people everywhere saying it's impossible, but anamorphic desqueeze on the monitor, oh my god that's just asking too much...

I mean why on earth would you want to support anamorphic lenses? It's not like anyone uses these lenses any more... except, you know... Chris Nolan, Michael Bay, JJ Abrams, Stephen Soderberg, PT Anderson, Stephen Spielberg, Louis Leterrier, Francis Lawrence and Wes Anderson all shooting their latest movies on anamorphic lenses. Yeah, except for those guys, nobody uses these lenses any more.

R.

We love anamorphic... we have anamorphic settings as standard format options. But until you try to build one of these yourself, please don't scold us. When we laid out the original design we made decisions that are now limiting some of our options. We have opened up more options than anyone had ever dreamed of when they plunked down their money. But we are out of space and squeezing just about everything we can from the system. We are very comfortable that we have given you more (at N/C) and will continue to improve many things about the RED ONE that we have room for. Build 16 is a great example. But it seems like no matter what we deliver, someone wants (impatiently) more. At what point should we be a bit irritated? When your request has a solution (external monitor) and attitude creeps in. Please forgive my harsh presentation. We have been working so hard for our customers that it is a bitter pill to hear this.

BTW, neither Peter nor Steven has asked for this. They seem just fine using an external monitor.

Epic... because it is a fresh sheet of paper design, will support this feature in camera.

Jim

[Alexander Nikishin]

4.5K.... awesome, just awesome......

And a 4:3 sensor on Epic? Maybe? Possibly? YES! PLEASE! Anamorphic love.

[cinepost35]

We were trying to hold off talking about this until the codec errors were completely killed (we think they are with the build coming in a day or two), but there has already been some discussion about this so here you go:

The RED ONE will soon be able to shoot 4.5K, 2.40:1 at 30fps. Expect to see this very soon.

Jim

Jim Incredible news.....
Can you say what we might be able to record to RED Drive, Red Flash or both ?

Will RED be releasing an additional Redcode ?

[Jannard]

Jim Incredible news.....
Can you say what we might be able to record to RED Drive, Red Flash or both ?

Will RED be releasing an additional Redcode ?

We will release a list of what can be recorded to what... and we are looking closely to see if we can coax a bit more data out of the system, but no promises. There are many obstacles to doing this and we are currently very close to the edge.

Jim

[Ruairi Robinson]

We love anamorphic... we have anamorphic settings as standard format options. But until you try to build one of these yourself, please don't scold us. When we laid out the original design we made decisions that are now limiting some of our options. We have opened up more options than anyone had ever dreamed of when they plunked down their money. But we are out of space and squeezing just about everything we can from the system. We are very comfortable that we have given you more (at N/C) and will continue to improve many things about the RED ONE that we have room for. Build 16 is a great example. But it seems like no matter what we deliver, someone wants (impatiently) more. At what point should we be a bit irritated? When your request has a solution (external monitor) and attitude creeps in. Please forgive my harsh presentation. We have been working so hard for our customers that it is a bitter pill to hear this.

Jim

Just keeping the pressure on dude, don't take it so hard. You have said yourself a billion times that the camera is a work in progress, so why act defensively when people treat it as such?

If people don't keep harassing you for this stuff, then it'll fall by the wayside. I've mentioned this stuff about a trillion times here, and been ignored every time. At least I got a reaction this time :)

I've spent the last ten years harassing people to support anamorphic lenses better in various things... back in my CG post production days, I got the programmers to give us anamorphic bokeh in VRAY, and Arnold (the renderer that was adapted to use in Monster House) among other things... and it took a lot of harassing to get them to do it. Kind of like the letter writing campaign in The Shawshank redemption.

So why should I stop now?

Put it this way: would you object to incorporating this feature if it were possible? Don't you agree that it would be useful? So why be defensive if people, you know, ask for it... It's not like it would hurt you or your camera to incorporate these suggestions...

Best,
R.

[Fredrik Callinggard]

I believe the problem here is the EVF. Before I got mine I would have said that maybe it didn't matter but now.....

Let's try to figure out how to desqueeze at least the EVF. If it's third party or not.

regards,

Fredrik Callinggard

[Axel Mertes]

We love anamorphic... we have anamorphic settings as standard format options. But until you try to build one of these yourself, please don't scold us. When we laid out the original design we made decisions that are now limiting some of our options. We have opened up more options than anyone had ever dreamed of when they plunked down their money. But we are out of space and squeezing just about everything we can from the system. We are very comfortable that we have given you more (at N/C) and will continue to improve many things about the RED ONE that we have room for. Build 16 is a great example. But it seems like no matter what we deliver, someone wants (impatiently) more. At what point should we be a bit irritated? When your request has a solution (external monitor) and attitude creeps in. Please forgive my harsh presentation. We have been working so hard for our customers that it is a bitter pill to hear this.

BTW, neither Peter nor Steven has asked for this. They seem just fine using an external monitor.

Epic... because it is a fresh sheet of paper design, will support this feature in camera.

Jim


Hi Jim,

I fully understand your comments regarding us be "impatient". I know I am, way to often in this "area". I am sorry if anything I asked creates a feeling of not being respectful or ignoring what you and your team made a reality for us. I guess no one here is able to thank you in the right way here at all.

That in advance.

You wrote above there is no space. Does that mean that you FPGA etc. code is reaching the limits of the camera and that putting something in could mean something else must be swapped out instead, depending on how much "processor" space a new feature needs?

I just want to understand the situation correctly.

My and others point is that we really love many of the preset modes. Some we use more often, other less, others never. All depends on each individuals needs.

But that again raises in me the question if achieving a single "custom mode" that deals dynamically with different values you can enter via menus, would solve this issue better?

Can you imagine that there is free space to implement something like this, not today, not tomorrow, but in the future?

I really don't like to beg you about this, but no answer to this subject leaves us always with the feeling it might not have been recognized by the RED team. I've never read an official statement to this idea yet. Or I must have missed it and would be very happy if someone can point me to it.

Nevertheless, 4.5k 2.40 : 1 is exactly what we would have used for COLD STORAGE trailer when we shot it early this year. So I guess we could shoot the movie with it. Hooray!


Best wishes,
Axel

[Ruairi Robinson]

I believe the problem here is the EVF. Before I got mine I would have said that maybe it didn't matter but now.....

Let's try to figure out how to desqueeze at least the EVF. If it's third party or not.

regards,

Fredrik Callinggard

..the de-squeeze was one of two issues/requests, lest the other fall by the wayside. (and since there are kind of solutions, sort of, for that, the other is by far the more important)

i.e. being able to record the top/bottom surroundview area in anamorphic mode, so we don't have to crop as much of the frame to extract the 2.35:1 area...

[Jannard]

Just keeping the pressure on dude, don't take it so hard. You have said yourself a billion times that the camera is a work in progress, so why act defensively when people treat it as such?

If people don't keep harassing you for this stuff, then it'll fall by the wayside. I've mentioned this stuff about a trillion times here, and been ignored every time. At least I got a reaction this time :)

I've spent the last ten years harassing people to support anamorphic lenses better in various things... back in my CG post production days, I got the programmers to give us anamorphic bokeh in VRAY, and Arnold (the renderer that was adapted to use in Monster House) among other things... and it took a lot of harassing to get them to do it. Kind of like the letter writing campaign in The Shawshank redemption.

So why should I stop now?

Put it this way: would you object to incorporating this feature if it were possible? Don't you agree that it would be useful? So why be defensive if people, you know, ask for it... It's not like it would hurt you or your camera to incorporate these suggestions...

Best,
R.

R. Sorry again for the harsh response. I know you are a good guy. We are just completely worn out. It is a dangerous combination to push ourselves so hard and then try to stay connected to our customers on this board. Nerves are a bit fried.

Of course we would add it if we could. The monitor path is very tricky due to the scaling necessary. We really are out of room. So keep pushing us... just on some other topic. :-)

Jim

[Casey Green]

Great News. Glad to see the full sensor area being made available. Very cool.


And I need Epic why?
You better slow down Jim, now you are starting to compete with yourself.

Here's a couple reasons - based on the early prototype. (subject to change):

5K Resolution
Possible 4:3 sensor for Anamorphic modes.
New Mysterium X Sensor with faster read refresh times.
Better Dynamic Range and lower Noise Levels.
Smaller and lighter body, fully machined aluminum, Hybrid Stainless PL Mount
1-100 FPS in 5K, and up to 100MB/Sec REDCODE RAW and RGB Recording
Full Size Dual Link HD-SDI (BNC) Outputs, and Full Size (XLR) Inputs.
Built in Cheese Plate on the top side
Larger, easier to navigate set of rear controls
REDFLASH Recording
Wi-Fi control ability
Fully Upgradeable Sensor, Body, Boards, and Mount

Not bad.

[Ernesto Salvador]

So Jim, based on all this amazing news, can you throw us a bone about scarlett: 3.5K?, frame rates?, a little something?

[D.A.N]

It is being finalized but I think we have landed on 4480 x 1874.

Jim

That is very cool, Thank you. Wouldn't a vertical resolution of 1872 be ideal, so the image size is then divisible by 16 in both dimensions -- for a few extra bytes of compression efficiency.

[Anders Holck]

Let's try to figure out how to desqueeze at least the EVF. If it's third party or not.

De-squeeze lens for the EVF?

[Paul Lee]

A W E S O M E !!!

[Poi Boy]

Amazing progress ! Love you guys.
Aloha
-A

[mikeburton]

R. Sorry again for the harsh response. I know you are a good guy. We are just completely worn out. It is a dangerous combination to push ourselves so hard and then try to stay connected to our customers on this board. Nerves are a bit fried.

Of course we would add it if we could. The monitor path is very tricky due to the scaling necessary. We really are out of room. So keep pushing us... just on some other topic. :-)

Jim

Thanks for letting us know for sure that the desqueeze will not be an option. If it was posted in another thread before hand and I/we missed it than please accept my apologies. I can stop waiting and make other arrangements now.

We know you guys are working hard, proving that with every update you post offering another feature at NC. Keep up the good work and thanks for the update.

[cinepost35]

We will release a list of what can be recorded to what... and we are looking closely to see if we can coax a bit more data out of the system, but no promises. There are many obstacles to doing this and we are currently very close to the edge.

Jim

Thanks Jim and RED Team for pushing the envelope, allowing us to do the same with the cameras on our projects.

[Michael "Dorkman" Scott]

We have opened up more options than anyone had ever dreamed of when they plunked down their money.
To be fair, aren't these new features actually leaning closer to EXACTLY what people were expecting when they plunked down their money?

4.5k 2.40 is great and all...but that was on the original spec sheet. In fact, it was closer to 4.5K 1.85 originally IIRC ("resolution to burn").

HD resolutions have been banished from the sheet, as well as RED RAW, and of course the well-missed 2K scaled.

We've got 3K now, but as a stopgap after the promised 4K 60fps has proved difficult/impossible with the camera's electronics.

I'll give you anamorphic, but that's essentially just a sensor crop. I can't imagine that's the toughest technical hurdle you've overcome in this wild journey.

Now of course the standard disclaimer: I love my RED, I was happy with B15 and B16 is indeed as the marketing says, a brand new camera. I love that you're listening to customer feedback and honestly until it came up again, I'd totally forgotten the "4.5K" original spec; 4K is more than enough for me. I don't need HD or 2K scaled in camera, and for high-speed I'll rent a Phantom until Epic comes along.

This is the camera I wanted to have. I'm not saying otherwise. And I know specs are subject to change, so you're perfectly in your rights to make said changes.

I just don't think it's accurate to say there are "more" options than we "dreamed of" when we plunked down our money. If anything, between the promised options that won't be coming, and the new options that were never promised, I'd call it even.

[Poi Boy]

I was expecting 4K @ 24fps with start and stop and that is about it. Needless to say I am a very happy camper ! Can't wait to see what Epic has in store for us.
Aloha
-A

[M Hsu]

whether the camera is all things to all men or not, whether it's just now reaching the goals that were set for it from day one, it's still a stunning industry changing achievement.

[Richard Lackey]

I was expecting 4K @ 24fps with start and stop and that is about it. Needless to say I am a very happy camper ! Can't wait to see what Epic has in store for us.
Aloha
-A

Me too! That's all the bait needed to get a bite from me, I figured, if I can get 4K DPX regardless of the ratio, and it's at least 24fps, anything else I want can happen by manipulating that data in post. Absolutely everything else in-camera has been a welcome bonus.

[ATF]

Hello,

VERY COOL!

Can't wait to check it out!

Now get some rest!

ATF

[Peter Simpson]

We love anamorphic... we have anamorphic settings as standard format options. But until you try to build one of these yourself, please don't scold us. When we laid out the original design we made decisions that are now limiting some of our options. We have opened up more options than anyone had ever dreamed of when they plunked down their money. But we are out of space and squeezing just about everything we can from the system. We are very comfortable that we have given you more (at N/C) and will continue to improve many things about the RED ONE that we have room for. Build 16 is a great example. But it seems like no matter what we deliver, someone wants (impatiently) more. At what point should we be a bit irritated? When your request has a solution (external monitor) and attitude creeps in. Please forgive my harsh presentation. We have been working so hard for our customers that it is a bitter pill to hear this.

BTW, neither Peter nor Steven has asked for this. They seem just fine using an external monitor.

Epic... because it is a fresh sheet of paper design, will support this feature in camera.

Jim

Peter nor Steven?:detective2: I have heard of a Peter and a Steven directing a certain trilogy of movies together. Is this a hint or am I just reading too much into things as usual?

[Jannard]

To be fair, aren't these new features actually leaning closer to EXACTLY what people were expecting when they plunked down their money?

4.5k 2.40 is great and all...but that was on the original spec sheet. In fact, it was closer to 4.5K 1.85 originally IIRC ("resolution to burn").

HD resolutions have been banished from the sheet, as well as RED RAW, and of course the well-missed 2K scaled.

We've got 3K now, but as a stopgap after the promised 4K 60fps has proved difficult/impossible with the camera's electronics.

I'll give you anamorphic, but that's essentially just a sensor crop. I can't imagine that's the toughest technical hurdle you've overcome in this wild journey.

Now of course the standard disclaimer: I love my RED, I was happy with B15 and B16 is indeed as the marketing says, a brand new camera. I love that you're listening to customer feedback and honestly until it came up again, I'd totally forgotten the "4.5K" original spec; 4K is more than enough for me. I don't need HD or 2K scaled in camera, and for high-speed I'll rent a Phantom until Epic comes along.

This is the camera I wanted to have. I'm not saying otherwise. And I know specs are subject to change, so you're perfectly in your rights to make said changes.

I just don't think it's accurate to say there are "more" options than we "dreamed of" when we plunked down our money. If anything, between the promised options that won't be coming, and the new options that were never promised, I'd call it even.

When the camera was announced, there was ONLY 4K out the RAW port, something I doubt you would have ever used. There was no recording to CF card, no REDCODE and no RED Drive. By the time you placed your order (1000+), the RAW port had already come down... so I respectfully disagree with you.

Jim

[Jens Jakob Thorsen]

Not going to ever happen with the RED ONE (don't get greedy on us). :-)

You'll need Epic for this one.

Jim

Well as long as I can do it with Epic I a happy camper;-)

JJ

[StephenMurphy]

Steven Soderbergh and Peter Hyams.

[Tim Lüdin]

This Thing gets better and better every day.
You keep surprising me. Great work guys.
Tim

[Denis Buhot]

The RED ONE will soon be able to shoot 4.5K, 2.40:1 at 30fps. Expect to see this very soon.

Jim

very good surprise, for sure... who could deny that and turn the offer down. No way I want to spoil the party. The bad side of it is to have been reading in the past two days about reliability and stability problems, about cameras that wouldn't boot and batteries that would not connect properly because of worn plastic holes... and still see even more features coming with their likely burden of inevitable bugs. I fully understand that Red is a momentum, and that true revolution must look like restlessness at times. However, as a very basic future user eagerly waiting for my camera, I'd personally a bit feel more comfortable to hear about "stabilization" of the existing features, not to mention enabling rather basic features that have long been asked for, such as a power saving function...MHO...

[Deanan]

But that again raises in me the question if achieving a single "custom mode" that deals dynamically with different values you can enter via menus, would solve this issue better?

RED one is a 1000 times more complex than an industrial camera. Doing a custom mode affect everything from multiple monitor path timing to scaling engines to compression to decompression and a bunch of other things. We would love to have a custom mode also but the number of variables involved makes it impractical.

[Jannard]

very good surprise, for sure... who could deny that and turn the offer down. No way I want to spoil the party. The bad side of it is to have been reading in the past two days about reliability and stability problems, about cameras that wouldn't boot and batteries that would not connect properly because of worn plastic holes... and still see even more features coming with their likely burden of inevitable bugs. I fully understand that Red is a momentum, and that true revolution must look like restlessness at times. However, as a very basic future user eagerly waiting for my camera, I'd personally a bit feel more comfortable to hear about "stabilization" of the existing features, not to mention enabling rather basic features that have long been asked for, such as a power saving function...MHO...

We are not just working on new features...

Jim

[Eirik Tyrihjel]

I just love this!

I am so happy I got on board, it´s been a rush since day 1!
(and my camera makes more money than I do...)

[Peter Majtan]

Don't want to sound pessimistic - but does this mean we will lose the "SurroundView" (TM)? Is going to be at least drastically reduced... I kind of liked that function, but maybe I am just jumping ahead...

The Fellowship of the RED - with all the wizards have done it again! Kudos Jim&Co...!

[Stuart English]

Yes you would lose the left / right aspect of surround view in this mode. Above / below will still be there however.

[Tony Lorentzen]

One of the things I'm waiting for the most is when RED starts to open up the USB ports on the cameras. You will never believe the possibilities with this camera once they start to use those. It'll be like christmas on drugs in a space rocket...

[Joseph Hutson]

Lovely.

If you guys keep up this pace of improving I do not know what sort of wondermachine I can expect in November...

Congrats on Post 400.

[Stuart English]

The bad side of it is to have been reading in the past two days about reliability and stability problems, about cameras that wouldn't boot and batteries that would not connect properly because of worn plastic holes... and still see even more features coming with their likely burden of inevitable bugs.

Yup life is a bitch. Bear in mind all the positive comments about experiences with the RED-ONE, and bear in mind most - if not all - comments about codec errors are based on BETA TEST firmware. This is exactly why we do beta testing. Likewise we do updates on mechanical items too. This is normal ...

[Pawel Achtel]

The RED ONE will soon be able to shoot 4.5K, 2.40:1 at 30fps. Expect to see this very soon.

Jim

That's what doctor ordered :biggrin:

[Anders Holck]

and bear in mind most - if not all - comments about codec errors are based on BETA TEST firmware.

well....Release build 15 is not so hot for 4k 16:9 25fps either :bleh:

sorry :shifty:

[Stuart English]

well....Release build 15 is not so hot for 4k 16:9 25fps either :bleh:

I'l take that critique, its valid. :mellow: Point is most of the recent burst of comments are about Beta Build 16.

[Gunleik Groven]

Which I'd love to install, if only...

Any idea when/if we get our QT codecs back? really need to export AJA from RC, as DPX is a risky business (From RC), random empty frames is not wanted...

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Of course we would add it if we could. The monitor path is very tricky due to the scaling necessary. We really are out of room. So keep pushing us... just on some other topic. :-)

Not trying to be a jackass, but... Is it too late to request that the desqueeze option be a function of the RED 7" Pro LCD? :innocent:

[Ruairi Robinson]

R. Sorry again for the harsh response. I know you are a good guy. We are just completely worn out. It is a dangerous combination to push ourselves so hard and then try to stay connected to our customers on this board. Nerves are a bit fried.

Of course we would add it if we could. The monitor path is very tricky due to the scaling necessary. We really are out of room. So keep pushing us... just on some other topic. :-)

Jim

No need to apologise. Just trying to get the kinda workflow I want to see ready for potential future projects. Ain't personal.

Btw I noticed you said "tricky" as opposed to "impossible"...

Therefore, I must hereby repeat my request for an option to view anamorphic footage unsqueezed, and to be able to record the surroundview area in this format, so we dont have to crop so many pixels out to extract the 2.35:1 frame...

because when did a little thing like being "tricky" ever stop you from building a 4k cine camera for $17 grand, when people were saying THAT was impossible.

If you can achieve the impossible, then tricky is for little girls :)

[Deanan]

Not trying to be a jackass, but... Is it too late to request that the desqueeze option be a function of the RED 7" Pro LCD? :innocent:


The monitor doesn't have the processing capability to do it.

[Stuart English]

I noticed you said "tricky" as opposed to "impossible"..

O.K "very tricky" ..

[Jeff Kilgroe]

The monitor doesn't have the processing capability to do it.

OK, didn't think so as I'm under the impression it's functionally just a larger version of the current LCD. ...Just thought I'd ask. :matrix:

Oh, and the 4.5K record mode is going to be awesome, thanks RED TEAM!

[Fredrik Callinggard]

O.K "very tricky" ..

Yes but that's still tricky....:bleh:

I would suggest a desqueeze box to the EVF and a new LCD that has it as an option?


Fredrik

[Thor Wixom]

I plan to shoot my feature in this new mode, Jim.

I was told at AFM by a panel of prominent DPs, that digital was a poor choice for epic scenery in a film.

I can't wait to prove otherwise.

-Thor

[Emmanuel Cambier]

Thanks for the 4.5k 2.40:1

Can't wait.


Emmanuel

[Martin Weiss]

I was told at AFM by a panel of prominent DPs, that digital was a poor choice for epic scenery in a film.
Just point them to David Mullen's latest work at http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13921

[Ruairi Robinson]

O.K "very tricky" ..

...but not impossible.

[Deanan]

...but not impossible.

Annoying is not a motivating factor over here.

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

The prophecy shall be fulfilled...

[Karl H]

exciting news. Any word whether we could have 16:9 but at lower frame rates (such as 24/25) or is the current aspect ratio pushing as hard as it can go?

[Joe D'Arcy]

O.K "very tricky" ..

Upgrade that to 'too tricky' and then we can all get some sleep.

[Andrew M.]

Looks like Epic with its 5.5K will bring true 4K (4000 lines) visible at current technology used in RED Code RAW. 4/5.5 = .72 oversampling ratio.
But I hope that RED ONE with 4.5 K support and its .88 oversampling will bring full 4000 lines as well, one day.

I have seen some tests showing as high as 3200 vertical lines across the screen with build 15 and I am very curious how many vertical lines of resolution we get now with build 16 and 4.5 K enabled.

[Paul Hazlett]

Annoying is not a motivating factor over here.

ok thats funny I dont care who you are.....thats funny stuff right there.

Let me ammend my silly comment with the comment that the ability to talk directly to those responsible for
our tools that bring in the bacon is really an asset to having a Red.

[doondoon]

my oh my

[conrad gaunt]

I love it, thankyou. Now if you can give us 1:2 and 9:16 aspect ratios, we`ll be able to use the camera sideways too :turned: or 19:6, so we can film upside down :usd:

[number6]

Congrats on Post 400.

:help: :)

[zak forrest]

HD resolutions have been banished from the sheet, as well as RED RAW, and of course the well-missed 2K scaled.


haha the well-missed 2k scaled

[Craig Ryan]

4.5k FTW!


Looks like Epic with its 5.5K will bring true 4K (4000 lines) visible at current technology used in RED Code RAW. 4/5.5 = .72 oversampling ratio.
But I hope that RED ONE with 4.5 K support and its .88 oversampling will bring full 4000 lines as well, one day.

I have seen some tests showing as high as 3200 vertical lines across the screen with build 15 and I am very curious how many vertical lines of resolution we get now with build 16 and 4.5 K enabled.

Those were my exact thought as well. RED ONE's debayered 4k just got closer to 4k...

[Jannard]

haha the well-missed 2k scaled

I have commented about 100 times (slight exaggeration) why 2K scaled makes no sense whatsoever... why this keeps coming up is totally beyond my wildest comprehension. I have to assume this is a joke...

I think it is time to take a break from this forum again.

Jim

[Luis Otero]

We were trying to hold off talking about this until the codec errors were completely killed (we think they are with the build coming in a day or two), but there has already been some discussion about this so here you go:

The RED ONE will soon be able to shoot 4.5K, 2.40:1 at 30fps. Expect to see this very soon.

Jim

Jim,

So, what will be the resolution we will get when the Misterium X is available for upgrading the Red One? :nuke:

[Seth Larney]

We were trying to hold off talking about this until the codec errors were completely killed (we think they are with the build coming in a day or two), but there has already been some discussion about this so here you go:

The RED ONE will soon be able to shoot 4.5K, 2.40:1 at 30fps. Expect to see this very soon.

Jim

Jim, this is seriously one of the most exciting things that has happened for me yet. You rock the casbar!! :ninja:

[Chuck T.]

I have commented about 100 times (slight exaggeration) why 2K scaled makes no sense whatsoever... why this keeps coming up is totally beyond my wildest comprehension. I have to assume this is a joke...

I think it is time to take a break from this forum again.

Jim

People don't value when you are giving software-updates/upgrades for free... once you start charging $500... $1000... just like any other vendor... they will realize what a good/great thing they had/have going for them.

[conrad gaunt]

I have commented about 100 times (slight exaggeration) why 2K scaled makes no sense whatsoever... why this keeps coming up is totally beyond my wildest comprehension. I have to assume this is a joke...

I think it is time to take a break from this forum again.

Jim

Thats a bit dramatic (again)! I usually find when jokes stop being funny, sleep helps..unless its one of my jokes :bye2:

[zak forrest]

I have commented about 100 times (slight exaggeration) why 2K scaled makes no sense whatsoever... why this keeps coming up is totally beyond my wildest comprehension. I have to assume this is a joke...

I think it is time to take a break from this forum again.

Jim


Hey Jim I was making fun of DorkmanScott's comment on 2k scaled. I don't miss it. I was quoting him and laughing... sorry to have upset you!!!

[Ruairi Robinson]

Annoying is not a motivating factor over here.

well, apologies if I have annoyed anyone, in my glee at having any post of mine regarding this subject matter acknowledged in any way by anyone in the red team in the last year and a half or so of asking for this stuff and being ignored completely, I may have overdone it a little bit.

[Jeff Deveraux]

I have commented about 100 times (slight exaggeration) why 2K scaled makes no sense whatsoever... why this keeps coming up is totally beyond my wildest comprehension. I have to assume this is a joke...

I think it is time to take a break from this forum again.

Jim

Jim-
I told you a million times... Don't exaggerate:biggrin:

[number6]

You may as well all turn in 'cause I'm pretty sure JiMelvis has left the building! I repeat! JIMELVIS HAS LEFT... THE BUILDING!

[Jarred Land]

yes he has.. and I really don't blame him.

[Michael "Dorkman" Scott]

I have commented about 100 times (slight exaggeration) why 2K scaled makes no sense whatsoever... why this keeps coming up is totally beyond my wildest comprehension. I have to assume this is a joke...

I think it is time to take a break from this forum again.
Jeez, I hardly ever comment and I broke the boards. :mellow:

For the record, yes, I was joking. I actually understand and agree that 2k scaled is pointless in-camera, I was just referencing a spec that had been mentioned early on that had gone by the wayside. I never said that there weren't perfectly good reasons some of them had, because obviously there are.

[Brandon Fraley]

i only read the first page, so I'm not really sure where the thread turned, but I just wanted to say that I'm stoked about the new features. Thanks again guys :)

[Drew Mylrea]

I'm not asking for anything more. I am just SO happy for this new feature. Thanks Jim and team. As usual some people will complain etc. but just know that we Redusers really really really love ever thing you are doing. I have no expectations, and continue to be amazed.

Well done.

Well freggin done.

drew

[Uli Plank]

When the camera was announced, there was ONLY 4K out the RAW port, something I doubt you would have ever used. There was no recording to CF card, no REDCODE and no RED Drive.

And this is just the main point of this camera now!

You could have delivered just that, and leave the recording up to the end user. Does everyone know what a Venom or a Megacine costs?
In spite of the low price for the body this would have excluded the whole low-budget and independent community. The greatest achievement of Red is compressed RAW, and this is what's changing our world. Otherwise the Red would just have been another high-end low-volume camera.
And we can see how difficult it is to get such a complex encoding work without flaws from the struggle with codec errors – even with some of the best programmers of the world working in this field.

So, please stop demanding the impossible – it has already been done!

I for my part am VERY grateful to Red for this camera.

Best regards,

Uli

[Craig Ryan]

Never underestimate the old adages...If you give a mouse a cookie...

[Warren Kommers]

kickasss! 4k @ 60 frames is so close...surely

I'm not so sure about that. 24fps in 16:9 is pushing the limits already.

[Denis Buhot]

Yup life is a bitch. Bear in mind all the positive comments about experiences with the RED-ONE, and bear in mind most - if not all - comments about codec errors are based on BETA TEST firmware. This is exactly why we do beta testing. Likewise we do updates on mechanical items too. This is normal ...

didn't intend to speak mean... It's just that I figure "normalcy" is not exactly what must have been needed to bring the Red one where it actually is, it seems :biggrin: . A revolution is not exactly "normal". Keeping things constantly moving is a revolutionary state of mind in any industry. In fact it's not what industry and day-to-day business requires, I had thought... Red is looking into the future and bringing it to us, and is awful at that. Red seems in some trouble when it comes to day-to-day normalcy, that's what's normal here. When a customer comes up in rage because his camera "failed him", or misses a shot because he couldn't get the damn' pin into the corresponding battery socket, I supposed it has to do with disappointed love being confronted with everyday's life (from his, and from your standpoint). And however grateful, however puzzled at your achievements, he wishes his camera were a bit less of a revolution, and a bit more of a standard reliable machine. Ingratitude, oblivion...this is another kind of future, and yup, life's a bitch ! BTW, it's very difficult to assess the exact bias in this forum... Minorities (happy or unhappy) always tend to speak loud, don't they ?

I plunked my money down, of course!

[James T Mather]

Thx for the feedback on the ana desqueeze on the monitor path (I thought it might be difficult to implement) - no worries. keep it up guys - well done.

[Ed Blythe]

People don't value when you are giving software-updates/upgrades for free... once you start charging $500... $1000... just like any other vendor... they will realize what a good/great thing they had/have going for them.

Quiet Brain. You think too much.

[Eryc Tramonn]

well, apologies if I have annoyed anyone, in my glee at having any post of mine regarding this subject matter acknowledged in any way by anyone in the red team in the last year and a half or so of asking for this stuff and being ignored completely, I may have overdone it a little bit.

Hahahaha. Read you loud and clear.

[Lewis-M Soucy]

At what point should we be a bit irritated?

I'm so sorry for you. This must be a terrible feeling. For different reasons, I know the feeling. Take it as a compliment! There's a lot of empty forum out there... You generate passion, and that's a bitch! :)

Deep down, you know we love you. A lot. You are changing a lot of peoples lives. You give us great bats, and then amazing gloves, then a super pitch ball... No wonder we want a baseball field now!!! ;)

I open a Red France office anytime. Just waiting for the call!

[patrickortman]

At first, I get concerned when Jim leaves the building. But then, I think about it- how long would Steve Jobs last if he was as accessible as Jim is online?

In this case, I took the whole "feature request" that one guy put out for 2K scaled as a joke. But anything in email or online can easily be misinterpreted, and when your head is down and you're working really hard to get a product to market I know it's tough to see humor.

I think it's safe to say we all absolutely love what Red's doing, and that nobody else is doing anything like Red. My only concern about the camera is the audio side of things, hoping and hoping that the audio side gets some more attention now that the video side blows just about everything out of the water.

[Craig Meadows]

Jim and team, thank you for all the hard work. It truly, absolutely is appreciated. Can't imagine buying a camera from any other company and 6 months after delivery they give you a better, higher-rez upgrade at no charge.

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit."
- Aristotle

[Aron Cohen]

Poor 4K Ninjas...

They'll need a new domain name! ;)
But I don't think they're too sad about it, are they? :)

[Jarred Land]

Poor 4K Ninjas...

They'll need a new domain name! ;)
But I don't think they're too sad about it, are they? :)

Speaking of which... We are seeing alot of companies pop up with "RED" in their business name, which isn't good. Just like you wouldn't start a company with " Sony, Apple, Canon " etc. in their name, It's not a good idea (or legal) to use "RED" to promote camera related services.

Just giving a heads up, as needing to change your name down the road isn't the easiest thing.

[Brandon Fraley]

Speaking of which... We are seeing alot of companies pop up with "RED" in their business name, which isn't good. Just like you wouldn't start a company with " Sony, Apple, Canon " etc. in their name, It's not a good idea (or legal) to use "RED" to promote camera related services.

Just giving a heads up, as needing to change your name down the road isn't the easiest thing.

i was really curious about this after seeing how many companies used RED in their name at CineGear.

[Jason Ing]

Red should go after them. They did the hard work. No tailcoat riding. Walk on your own two feet. :)

[Andrew Benz]

nevermind...

[Bing Bailey]

Kinda hard to go after people for using whats quite a common word. I'd rather red spend time making the camera better than suing people for using a common word in their name. if the companies were pretending to be part of RED thats a different story. but just using the word RED. I think there are probably a few companies that could sue RED first

there are lots of companies called apple. apple corps for example. sony and canon word wise are a little more unique given their foreign origins.

[Lewis-M Soucy]

Tuff thing to have a color as a brand. ApplePicker or MacNinjas would only be legal if one trained orchard technicians and the other one organised seminars on how to fight prostitution...

[Bing Bailey]

you'd have more of a case if they were like using RED Digital Cinema Parts Inc or something like that

[Bing Bailey]

sony created blu ray as a brand for this very reason, they would have had a hard time with blue ray. maybe they'll sue because RED RAY kinda sounds like BLU RAY. maybe we can start a fund. we can sue websters for distributing the word red in their products :)

[Joel Kaye]

Red should go after them. They did the hard work. No tailcoat riding. Walk on your own two feet. :)

Slippery slope.

Interesting article.
http://www.ipodobserver.com/story/36377

Why is it extra interesting... look at the domain of the website that posted the article.

edit: Even more interesting is the orginating article site name:
http://www.appleinsider.com (not affiliated with Apple as far as I can see)


I imagine it would make for some interesting legal work for RED to take ownership of such a generic term. To the degree anyone tries to imply a relationship with RED the camera company or use the logo or similarity I think they are in trouble. But the word RED in a domain name? Give me a break. Not enforceable.

[Jeremy Teman]

Poor 4K Ninjas...

They'll need a new domain name! ;)
But I don't think they're too sad about it, are they? :)

...Why?

[Ed Blythe]

Speaking of which... We are seeing alot of companies pop up with "RED" in their business name, which isn't good. Just like you wouldn't start a company with " Sony, Apple, Canon " etc. in their name, It's not a good idea (or legal) to use "RED" to promote camera related services.

Just giving a heads up, as needing to change your name down the road isn't the easiest thing.

Intriguing. How then do you describe film production services that are specific to Red? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synecdoche

There's film services. There's video services. There's ... ?

Which is not to say that I don't see your point.

[Ed Blythe]

...Why?

Because then, if they got in a fight with the 4.5K Ninjas, they might lose.

[Jeremy Teman]

Because then, if they got in a fight with the 4.5K Ninjas, they might lose.

Oh, for some reason I saw RED ninjas in your post. Did they change their name because RED asked them to?

[Jarred Land]

Slippery slope.

Appleinsider

Interesting article.
http://www.ipodobserver.com/story/36377

I.

Appleinsider and Ipodobserver are news sites that report on Apple products... they do not offer services or product, or Apple would shut them down in a heartbeat.

[Ed Blythe]

Oh, for some reason I saw RED ninjas in your post. Did they change their name because RED asked them to?

Post #161 + #172 + #174 = the cam is more than 4K; ninja's should follow suit.

[Jarred Land]

Kinda hard to go after people for using whats quite a common word. I'd rather red spend time making the camera better than suing people for using a common word in their name.

Dont know what your trying to say darkkelt, but thanks for pissing me off.

And I would love for you to use your common name argument against Apple... see how far you get.

[Chris Kenny]

Intriguing. How then do you describe film production services that are specific to Red? There's film services. There's video services. There's ... ?

A company's name doesn't have to describe what it does. And you can always use more general terms. The Red One isn't completely off in a category defined by a single product. It's one of a number of raw data cameras (D21, Origin, Phantom, etc.) and more generally could be described as a "digital cinema" camera.

[Bing Bailey]

Dont know what your trying to say darkkelt, but thanks for pissing me off.

And I would love for you to use your common name argument against Apple... see how far you get.


Jarred I was ribbing you , maybe that wasn't apparent. maybe I need to add :) at the end of a sentence. if you see my follow up posts they got sillier. you guys really need a break. we seem to go through periods were you lash out at people a little when you're exhausted.

[Peter Majtan]

I don't know why is that (or whether this has happened before), but Jim has taken his first time off and it looks like some are after the RED-TEAM. I have never seen Jarred pissed off. I think we should all step back, take a deep breath, relax and get back to "normal"...

Peace!

[Jeremy Teman]

Post #161 + #172 + #174 = the cam is more than 4K; ninja's should follow suit.

I meant from RED ninjas to 4k Ninjas.

[Ed Blythe]

Peter: You clearly missed the post-NAB excitement. He'll be back. I wouldn't want to spend all my time with us either.

Jeremy: My bad. Couldn't tell ya.

[Jeremy Teman]

I don't know why is that (or whether this has happened before), but Jim has taken his first time off and it looks like some are after the RED-TEAM. I have never seen Jarred pissed off. I think we should all step back, take a deep breath, relax and get back to "normal"...

Peace!

His second time off. I think his first was after NAB.

[Jarred Land]

Jarred I was ribbing you , maybe that wasn't apparent. maybe I need to add :) at the end of a sentence

Ribbing would of been one post.. but then you spewed out 2 more backing up your original post..

I am not laughing... we take our brand identity very seriously, and will defend it with everything necessary.

[Chris Kenny]

Kinda hard to go after people for using whats quite a common word. I'd rather red spend time making the camera better than suing people for using a common word in their name. if the companies were pretending to be part of RED thats a different story. but just using the word RED. I think there are probably a few companies that could sue RED first

there are lots of companies called apple. apple corps for example. sony and canon word wise are a little more unique given their foreign origins.

Trademarks are domain-specific. If you want to open an Apple Auto Repair, go for it. If you open an "Apple" company that writes software, sells computer hardware, or runs an Internet-based media distribution business though... good luck with that.

Apple Corps Ltd. and Apple, Inc. have, in fact, clashed several times over trademark issues, first when Macs started to gain advanced audio capabilities and were adopted as audio production tools, and more recently over Apple, Inc. getting into the music distribution business.

So, yeah. Red.com, Inc. (which appears to be the legal name of the company) doesn't own the word "red". But any court would almost certainly find they have exclusive rights to use that word as part of a brand name in the relevant industries.

[Peter Majtan]

Peter: You clearly missed the post-NAB excitement. He'll be back. I wouldn't want to spend all my time with us either.

I was stuck inside the "Scarlet" thread (which have since evolved to its own forum)... :w00t:

[Bing Bailey]

jesus guys , calm down , wasn't this thread about the camera doing 4.5k I'd prefer if it went back to that.

[Simon Valderrama]

Speaking of which... We are seeing alot of companies pop up with "RED" in their business name, which isn't good. Just like you wouldn't start a company with " Sony, Apple, Canon " etc. in their name, It's not a good idea (or legal) to use "RED" to promote camera related services.


uh, so are we speaking of company business names or also web domains?
i've found in this forum many people having "red-containing" domain names redirecting to rental facilities with a different company name (if i do not remember wrong) offering red camera rentals.
Always thought that was fair, also because never had the idea RED inc. could see nothing wrong about people renting their wondermachine.
Never imagined that could be a problem.
As "Authorized Apple Resellers" exist, could people have a sort of "Authorized Red Renter" agreement with Red?


Appleinsider and Ipodobserver are news sites that report on Apple products... they do not offer services or product, or Apple would shut them down in a heartbeat.

Uh, well, in fact Apple is known for being quite strict about webdomains, blogs etc ... also been criticized a lot about that.
Apple is quite dispotic, guess they could propose death sentence for bloggers revealing the "next thing" ...

[Martin Weiss]

It is only fair of Jarred to point out that anyone considering having "Red" in their company name might run into trouble later on.

Remember, Red are the good guys. And of course they want to protect their brand.

Imagine if you set up a production company called "Amber Films". After years of hard work you land a success. Same day someone registers betteramberfilms.com, surely you would go after them...

-------------

Maybe we all should take a reduser break. Those with a Red go out and shoot some great footage - the best way to thank The Team. Those waiting for their Red, go out and enjoy the summer, maybe shoot some stills in Raw. And those who just come here to b*tch, well, ...

Deep breath, everyone

[Jarred Land]

Uh, well, in fact Apple is known for being quite strict about webdomains, blogs etc ... also been criticized a lot about that.
Apple is quite dispotic, guess they could propose death sentence for bloggers revealing the "next thing" ...

We are strict... we need to be. If a customer gets confused that they are dealing officially with RED, but they arn't and something goes wrong, then its a problem. It happened a couple times in the past already, and we have had to deal with it. Its a Trademark, and its the law. We just dont make this stuff up.

I am amazed how much resistance and backlash there always seem to be when we post news of anysort.. Jim announces a great new feature (4.5k) and we get slammed. I give a heads up to guys out there that may choose a company name to protect them from a mountain of legal fees, and we get slammed...

If you guys just realize we are trying to help you, things would go alot better.

[Mark L. Pederson]

I am amazed how much resistance and backlash there always seem to be when we post news of anysort.. Jim announces a great new feature (4.5k) and we get slammed. I give a heads up to guys out there that may choose a company name to protect them from a mountain of legal fees, and we get slammed...

If you guys just realize we are trying to help you, things would go alot better.

Jarred -

You could always pull down the site for one week - throw up a banner - "absence makes the heart grow fonder" -

or better yet ... "back when you all can behave respectfully"

what am I talking about - you'd get slammed anyway ...

[Tico Llaurador]

I agree with Mark. All the slamming has been totally uncalled for. This is the kind of stuff that happens when people start taking RED's unique approach to doing business for granted.

When, in fact, we should all be counting our blessings.

[Paul Hazlett]

This is a classic case of squeaky wheel derailing the train. If you said the camera
was going to fly and spit nickels, SOME would complain that it wasn't quarters.

In such an open environment with a possibility of anonymity you are always going to have your squeaky wheels. for better or worse.

[Antoine Fabi]

Give us a break !!!!! :) :) :)

...JUST TRYING TO CATH UP LEARNING B16 NEW FEATURES!!!!!

how can we say thanks enough...Sincerely...

I'm so gratefull to you.

[Simon Valderrama]

We are strict... we need to be. If a customer gets confused that they are dealing officially with RED, but they arn't and something goes wrong, then its a problem. It happened a couple times in the past already, and we have had to deal with it. Its a Trademark, and its the law. We just dont make this stuff up.


Obviously this is fair. I think it's common sense (and basic law) not choosing a company name that can lead to confusion.
Things get more difficult when speaking of web domains for sites offering services, what i am suggesting is, what about having some official guidelines from you about this, maybe after a brief discussion in this forum?
I'm telling this in a positive way, just to avoid problems between red-customers and red itself.
Obviously this would make another thread.
As an example, actually my idea about a bad webdomain is still vague (apart from obvious examples).
I'm no expert.



I am amazed how much resistance and backlash there always seem to be when we post news of anysort.. Jim announces a great new feature (4.5k) and we get slammed. I give a heads up to guys out there that may choose a company name to protect them from a mountain of legal fees, and we get slammed...


Please do not relate my questions about name policies and post-great announcement slamming, always loved and praised all red announcements and innovations .... :sad:
Besides, i wasn't comparing Red to Apple (Red Apple?), just pointing Apple as an example of dispotic corporation (not really evil as microsoft, but sure not democratic), really :)
Im a kind of anti-badcorporations guy, that's why i love Red

[Ruairi Robinson]

We are strict... we need to be. If a customer gets confused that they are dealing officially with RED, but they arn't and something goes wrong, then its a problem. It happened a couple times in the past already, and we have had to deal with it. Its a Trademark, and its the law. We just dont make this stuff up.

I am amazed how much resistance and backlash there always seem to be when we post news of anysort.. Jim announces a great new feature (4.5k) and we get slammed. I give a heads up to guys out there that may choose a company name to protect them from a mountain of legal fees, and we get slammed...

If you guys just realize we are trying to help you, things would go alot better.


Oh yeah, I kinda forgot to say... the 4.5k thing... awesome. Thanks :)

Best,
R.

[Jarred Land]

Jarred -

You could always pull down the site for one week - throw up a banner - "absence makes the heart grow fonder" -

or better yet ... "back when you all can behave respectfully"

what am I talking about - you'd get slammed anyway ...

Thats not a bad idea.....

[Mark L. Pederson]

Thats not a bad idea.....

They are all going to blame me now ....

[Michael Hastings]

We were trying to hold off talking about this until the codec errors were completely killed (we think they are with the build coming in a day or two), but there has already been some discussion about this so here you go:

The RED ONE will soon be able to shoot 4.5K, 2.40:1 at 30fps. Expect to see this very soon.

Jim

This is great news! This would have been nice yesterday.

By the way, we had a few codec errors on Monday (16 3.1.5) shooting swimmers near the surface (3 or 4 in two hours of footage). But then shot over an hour of very fast moving sharks (between 35 to 40 sharks within a 30 foot area with no codec errors. The housing was constantly banged by the sharks, got one quick record fault when one of the sharks bumped it VERY FAST and Very hard twice in quick succession - pretty robust I would say.

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

Were you guys recording to CF or Drive?

[Zach Hilton]

I don't know why is that (or whether this has happened before), but Jim has taken his first time off and it looks like some are after the RED-TEAM. I have never seen Jarred pissed off. I think we should all step back, take a deep breath, relax and get back to "normal"...

Peace!His second time off. When the natives get restless, the chief takes a break. And I don't blame him.

[Joel Kaye]

Appleinsider and Ipodobserver are news sites that report on Apple products... they do not offer services or product, or Apple would shut them down in a heartbeat.

Yeah, I'm on your side that anything trying to imply an association with you guys would be wrong.

Looks like ScarletInsider.com or RedObserver.com could start up a blog or community and be OK. Just like DVXuser uses a uniquely Panasonic name,right? It's just people offering production, rental or repair that need to avoid RED, correct?

[Steven Caesare]

Man... the users on this board can be asshats at times.

If you keep it up, just maybe you can ruin one of the most unique company/public relationships ever seen.

[Cam Crowley]

Jarred -

You could always pull down the site for one week - throw up a banner - "absence makes the heart grow fonder" -

or better yet ... "back when you all can behave respectfully"

what am I talking about - you'd get slammed anyway ...

I second this motion. Take it down for a week or two and maybe use that time to do a bit of housekeeping. Reduser has become a bit of a beast to deal with - especially in the last 6 months. I have been on here since day1 - I read a lot and don't post much because I'd rather not clog these boards any more crap opinions than they already are. And YES, this is a direct swipe at some of you (and a NON-swipe at the people who actually contribute valuable posts).

Reduser has a wealth of information on here. In fact it has become the most active and useful resource on cinematography on the web in the space of 18 months. But to be quite honest with you, trawling through the shit that is sometimes posted on here is becoming a full time business and I do not blame Jim or Jarred for being pissed.

So anyway - to the RED team. I really love my camera, in fact you could even call me a satisfied customer - to paraphrase the words of the great John Cleese - "you should have me stuffed" !!!

Cheers

Cam

[number6]

Jim should hire a double who answers every post with "I see your point" or "We'll look in to that" or "Good idea, wait for it". You know, standard business stuff.

[Joel Kaye]

Jim should hire a double who answers every post with "I see your point" or "We'll look in to that" or "Good idea, wait for it". You know, standard business stuff.

Good idea, I see your point. Probably worth trashing this thread or just deleting all the off topic stuff.

I know of one board where announcements are made in an announcement forum and those posts are closed after the first post. Might help at RedUser. That way the rabble could discuss elsewhere and keep the good news thread properly pristine. 'Cause let's face it, 4.5k is damn good news and it sucks to see it diluted.

[number6]

Good idea, I see your point.

Jim? Is that you Jim?:unsure:

[Joel Kaye]

Jim? Is that you Jim?:unsure:

Right, Jannard's Jekyll and I'm Hyde. No man, don't even joke about it. I've got a ton of respect for that guy. He's got balls of steel to throw the bones on a gamble like RED and has had to put up with some serious bullshit.

The entire RED team deserve a technical achievement Oscar and I believe they'll get it.

I've said it before - this company is going to be a college case study for a long time.

[Tico Llaurador]

His second time off. When the natives get restless, the chief takes a break. And I don't blame him.

That's exactly why this is so bizarre. There really was no reason whatsoever for the natives to get restless. If there ever was a time when things were looking up, it'd be now.

Or have I missed something?

:umm:

[number6]

Everyone is taking Jim's absence WAYYYY too personal. If you will check the calendar you will notice that Friday is the Fourth of July. And if you could look at Jim's personal calendar you would have seen that he penciled in some outing (probably to a drag race somewhere) way back in May or possibly even April. He is just yanking your chain about being driven away. If no one had posted nonsense (yeah, like that was ever in doubt) then he would have had a shill post nonsense so he could say "Allright! That does it! I'm outa here!"

At least that's the way I would have done it.

edit: (It's a good thing this camera works with low light because there are some pretty dim bulbs on this forum)

[Tico Llaurador]

Methinks you're right Number 6, look at what our RED home office insider just picked up. Seems like Jim and Jarred just left the office for a "break."

http://www.binaflix.com/images/GoneFishin.jpg

[number6]

Methinks you're right Number 6, look at what our RED home office insider just picked up. Seems like Jim and Jarred just left the office for a "break."

http://www.binaflix.com/images/GoneFishin.jpg

Proof if ever I saw it!:)

[Casey Green]

Jarred,

Don't forget - for every 1 person criticizing news from RED, there are 100 thanking and commending you guys.

What is constantly given to us is not forgotten. ;)

[Axel Mertes]

Ribbing would of been one post.. but then you spewed out 2 more backing up your original post..

I am not laughing... we take our brand identity very seriously, and will defend it with everything necessary.

Jarred,

I totally understand your point. Our company name was choosen after having about 1000 other options created to choose from. We opted for something unique, not apparent in the web (not easy nowadays). Still you can find almost perfect entries that lead to what "Magna Mana" is when searching the web, few misleading findings...

Don't try that with RED or Apple...

BMW was pushed down by Google for using "illegal" (in terms of Google rules) methods to raise there search entry results on Google for "BMW" as some other companies managed to be ABOVE BMW itself on web searches.

Another drastic example is german Telekom. They use a magente "T...." symbolics. They actually patented the color "Magenta" for advertising use! Worldwide! They sue everyone who uses pure Magenta as "company color". in advertising. Worldwide...

I am not sure if the color "RED" has already been patented, who knows...?

I think its a creative business. And finding a unique outstanding company name is not an easy task in global business, but with some creativity in mind you find something, for sure. And riding another poeples horse is never fair, so I totally understand the RED arguments, however, RED itself is not necessarily free of getting sued by others who might have used "RED" for something similar earlier than 199x (when RED was actually created according to some records I found).

I wish everyone a successful business.

And for the records:

There had been a long lasting sticky post about "RED Ninijas are not affiliated with RED". Who did not understand the message there has not done his homework, IMHO...

It was expectable and - with all respect of everybody who is involved on this, both sides - is a legally clear situation. That there is co-benefit is one site, but a company wants control over its own reputation. Thats one of the reason why running this forum is somewhat risky, but not having it would mean it creates itself "without control" as an open service at Yahoo or Creative Cow or elsewhere. Having the forum "within RED" is surely giving RED slightly more control over its officially seen reputation.

Just my thoughts on this,

Axel

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

Was this EVF de-squeeze thing announced in the original specs for the camera?

[James T Mather]

No - not as far as I am aware - but considering all that has already been implemented it seemed possible. A classic case of the guys (Red) generally exceeding expectations means we (the consumers) occasionally come to expect everything is possible if we ask often enough. (In a roundabout way it's a compliment to the company).

Looks like a transvideo Ana desqueeze box or a carrion monitor is on the shopping list.

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

Well, if good external options are available and if this wasn't a part of the original specs promised, the ranting is a bit too much, me thinks.

Yeah, I too want to go to the moon, but...

[Steven-Marc C.]

This new option is fantastic. Can't wait to use it. Getting 2.40 footage without having to crop in post is also really nice. I'm sure it will be used A LOT on shorts and the like. Kids love that scope-like format! :)

[Milan Nikolic]

4.5K it is fantastic. Thanks and continue with good work.

[David Birdy]

We were trying to hold off talking about this until the codec errors were completely killed (we think they are with the build coming in a day or two), but there has already been some discussion about this so here you go:

The RED ONE will soon be able to shoot 4.5K, 2.40:1 at 30fps. Expect to see this very soon.

Jim

Thanks Jim & REd Team..... you guys,( And Girls) have the best surprises!!!


Dave

[Michael Hastings]

I wanted to clear up a possible misconception about my earlier post copied below. What I was trying to say was that I am really excited about 4.5K at 2.4, because I really like the superwide aspect, but I also like the highest resolution when I am shooting difficult to get nature stuff like the shark footage.

I mentioned the codec errors only in that it seemed like we got a few during the easy shoot and then none with the really fast shark action that I thought might be a problem. While they are obviously annoying, I feel like the codec errors are a part of the process that has given us essentially a new camera twice in the last month. So a couple in 2 hours of actual recording wasn't bad at all.

But I realized after reading my post, that it could easily be taken that I was complaining that I wish we had the new codec error-killing build yesterday - when all I meant is I like widescreen!

As far as the single record error (lost maybe a second or two) I was actually very impressed. You have to know how hard the shark hits were. When they are feeding they are pretty worked up and the hit is so quick it is like a 300 pound hammer hitting it. BTW somebody asked if it was CF or HD. It was harddrive and I have to tell you that being able to shoot two dives with over an hour of footage - without opening the housing - at 4K resolution - is awesome!

Jim: Enjoy your INDEPENDENCE DAY break, in some ways RED is making me an independent.

I've had a movie concept for almost 10 years, where I have thought that I could generate some investment interest by shooting some of the scenes to create a good trailer. Obviously it involves a lot of underwater, and through AquaVideo I have a network of very talented customers/friends that would chip in at low/no cost to make it happen. Yet I've never seriously considered doing it because I wanted the full scale movie look and to shoot it on film just wasn't feasible in terms of investing that much cash (college funds and all that:biggrin:). Now, I and at least 4 of those friends have REDs and anything is possible. We can pick up some of that really cool footage as we are doing other stuff, like I did Tuesday. Vive the revolution!



We were trying to hold off talking about this until the codec errors were completely killed (we think they are with the build coming in a day or two), but there has already been some discussion about this so here you go:

The RED ONE will soon be able to shoot 4.5K, 2.40:1 at 30fps. Expect to see this very soon.

Jim


This is great news! This would have been nice yesterday.

By the way, we had a few codec errors on Monday (16 3.1.5) shooting swimmers near the surface (3 or 4 in two hours of footage). But then shot over an hour of very fast moving sharks (between 35 to 40 sharks within a 30 foot area with no codec errors. The housing was constantly banged by the sharks, got one quick record fault when one of the sharks bumped it VERY FAST and Very hard twice in quick succession - pretty robust I would say.

[Axel Mertes]

No - not as far as I am aware - but considering all that has already been implemented it seemed possible. A classic case of the guys (Red) generally exceeding expectations means we (the consumers) occasionally come to expect everything is possible if we ask often enough. (In a roundabout way it's a compliment to the company).

Looks like a transvideo Ana desqueeze box or a carrion monitor is on the shopping list.

James,

I think they could implement it, no question, potentially it would be "easy" compared to other features they managed to implement. But Jim said they are running out of space, which seems the currently implemented functionalities start to reach the limits of programmable space on the FPGA's etc. inside the camera electronics.

So if we would require them to make it, we would potentially need to trade for other features, as it sounds. This is surely a bit speculative, but my technical background tells me I am not far from the reality here :)

This all reminds me of that Jim once talked about releasing a video firmware that makes the RED ONE behave a bit like a 1080p camera, with dual link video out etc. So it would be a good alternative to the Viper, but it can not handle all the 4K & RED CODE stuff at the same time, so we would need to decide. In fact, that would not only be a new but also a different camera then.

On the long run it would be - purely theory - thinkable that we end up with many different combinations of features for a "video camera", a "multiple purpose camera" (what we have right now), a "custom mode camera" (what I would wish for), an "anamorphic mode camera" (that includes anamorphic desqueeze) and so on and so on. But in reality this sound pretty inappropriate, as RED would probably not want to support so many different firmware pathes... They would instead try to make the next camera contain a bit more space to solve all those (partially originally) unexpected feature wishes.

Me thinks...

Axel

[Axel Mertes]

I wanted to clear up a possible misconception about my earlier post copied below. What I was trying to say was that I am really excited about 4.5K at 2.4, because I really like the superwide aspect, but I also like the highest resolution when I am shooting difficult to get nature stuff like the shark footage.

I mentioned the codec errors only in that it seemed like we got a few during the easy shoot and then none with the really fast shark action that I thought might be a problem. While they are obviously annoying, I feel like the codec errors are a part of the process that has given us essentially a new camera twice in the last month. So a couple in 2 hours of actual recording wasn't bad at all.

But I realized after reading my post, that it could easily be taken that I was complaining that I wish we had the new codec error-killing build yesterday - when all I meant is I like widescreen!

As far as the single record error (lost maybe a second or two) I was actually very impressed. You have to know how hard the shark hits were. When they are feeding they are pretty worked up and the hit is so quick it is like a 300 pound hammer hitting it. BTW somebody asked if it was CF or HD. It was harddrive and I have to tell you that being able to shoot two dives with over an hour of footage - without opening the housing - at 4K resolution - is awesome!

Jim: Enjoy your INDEPENDENCE DAY break, in some ways RED is making me an independent.

I've had a movie concept for almost 10 years, where I have thought that I could generate some investment interest by shooting some of the scenes to create a good trailer. Obviously it involves a lot of underwater, and through AquaVideo I have a network of very talented customers/friends that would chip in at low/no cost to make it happen. Yet I've never seriously considered doing it because I wanted the full scale movie look and to shoot it on film just wasn't feasible in terms of investing that much cash (college funds and all that:biggrin:). Now, I and at least 4 of those friends have REDs and anything is possible. We can pick up some of that really cool footage as we are doing other stuff, like I did Tuesday. Vive the revolution!

Hi AquaVideoRed :)

Amazing pictures, I'd love to see this on the big screen in full 4K.

Can you PM or email me about the underwater housing pricing for rental and buying. We do not have a job right now, but I remember we had a few in the past, so I would like to have an idea about the cost.

I wish I had this setup for holiday underwater videos :)
Well, my wishes we had time just for a holiday, after all...

Congratulations,
Axel

[Denis Buhot]

Methinks you're right Number 6, look at what our RED home office insider just picked up. Seems like Jim and Jarred just left the office for a "break."


Is that a red still ???

[cinemano]

thats so exciting!! For me it makes sense. After all the Scarlet can do 3K so RED one should be a huge bit more. Dont worry about Epic.. Cant wait to see it work.. hum.. probably wont work with CF cards? Can anyone make a visual chart comparing 4k to 4.5k? Like the ones in wikipeda under red.

[Peter Majtan]

Check the EPIC thread - there is the graphic You are after...

[Josué Ignacio Saldaña]

I am amazed how much resistance and backlash there always seem to be when we post news of anysort.. Jim announces a great new feature (4.5k) and we get slammed. I give a heads up to guys out there that may choose a company name to protect them from a mountain of legal fees, and we get slammed...

Jarred,

I know that it is very hard to listen to critics especially when you are tirelessly working to deliver the best that you can; however, if it is of any comfort... there are a lot of people who praise the RED Team and who mean it. As a matter of fact, everytime news comes out, I love reading those posts by those who appreciate it. I believe that many people on here might not be out here for the positive, instead they just want to give a hard time. How many times has Jim asked someone for their RED # to cure an argument? Maybe there could be some type of sub-thread were only CONFIRMED reservation/owners holders can go into and comment. Then perhaps the energy from within the team can be better channeled? I know that if I wasn't a reservation holder, I would be sadened by this, but the reason I suggest this is because I wouldn't want to see a good thing go away or die down due to people who don't plan on ever getting any real involvement with this community (i.e. buying a camera).

[Michael Hastings]

Hi AquaVideoRed :)

Amazing pictures, I'd love to see this on the big screen in full 4K.

Axel

Time to put in our reservation for a RED RAY and 4k projector. Or 4.5K?

[Gunleik Groven]

WOW...

Sometimes things take off...

[Peter Shanelaris]

Twenty years ago I said " one day we will have a video camera that can shoot just as good as film and we can edit on our home computer. Back then it was an amiga and SVHS ( alright a little more than twenty years ). Today I look forward to the delivery of my Red in November. I never thought I'd be able to afford to shoot video that could surpass film, so I'm just plain thrilled and grateful that RED is out there. And that it is affordable. What this camera and the people behind it are doing to filmmaking is no small thing. So thank you in advance.

Best,
Peter Shanelaris www.hangdogsthemovie.com

[Hrvoje Simic]

I am amazed how much resistance and backlash there always seem to be when we post news of anysort..

Not that much for an observer as you guys might perceive it from your more emotionally involved perspective. Which is understandable.

You are different. You are pioneers in many things. Those kinds always do take a lot of shit.



Jim announces a great new feature (4.5k) and we get slammed. I give a heads up to guys out there that may choose a company name to protect them from a mountain of legal fees, and we get slammed...

You will never make everyone happy.
By expecting that you would be making the same mistake which bothers you at other people. Expecting too much and not appreciating what you already have.

When emotional batteries are low, just think of the positive energy coming to you guys from around the globe.
Nothing can beat that. Just catch the feed. Careful on the dosage, though.
And make sure you don't get immune to it. :-)

[Eryc Tramonn]

Tuff thing to have a color as a brand. ApplePicker or MacNinjas would only be legal if one trained orchard technicians and the other one organised seminars on how to fight prostitution...

Hahaha. "MacNinjas" hahaha. You've been watching too much blaxploitation cinema in France.

[Eryc Tramonn]

Jarred,

I know that it is very hard to listen to critics especially when you are tirelessly working to deliver the best that you can; however, if it is of any comfort... there are a lot of people who praise the RED Team and who mean it. As a matter of fact, everytime news comes out, I love reading those posts by those who appreciate it. I believe that many people on here might not be out here for the positive, instead they just want to give a hard time. How many times has Jim asked someone for their RED # to cure an argument? Maybe there could be some type of sub-thread were only CONFIRMED reservation/owners holders can go into and comment. Then perhaps the energy from within the team can be better channeled? I know that if I wasn't a reservation holder, I would be sadened by this, but the reason I suggest this is because I wouldn't want to see a good thing go away or die down due to people who don't plan on ever getting any real involvement with this community (i.e. buying a camera).

Please don't start this debate again. We covered this ages ago, and decided against it. Everyone simply needs to act like the adults they are, and everything will be fine. Ignore incendiary comments. Period.

[Jarred Land]

When emotional batteries are low, just think of the positive energy coming to you guys from around the globe.
Nothing can beat that. Just catch the feed.:-)

You know what.. that actually worked :)

[Christopher Gosch]

I have commented about 100 times (slight exaggeration) why 2K scaled makes no sense whatsoever... why this keeps coming up is totally beyond my wildest comprehension. I have to assume this is a joke...

I think it is time to take a break from this forum again.

Jim

Sorry to hear that Jim. I am a working DOP and read the forum mostly to get info on my red #936 and how it can be improved. (And how I can improve my use of the camera) I have a hard to sifting through all of the silly comments to get to the useful information. I would vote for a forum where only registered owners could post information directly related to their experience with the Red (both positive and negative) and receive information quickly and efficiently. I had a very grainy experience with my red on a job when I pushed the iso to 640 and have turned off a major hollywood director to the red and put myself into a corner as a dop with him. If I had be able to find information on other peoples experience doing the same thing I would have not shot that way and instead used more light in the situation (on film a one stop push does not result in anywhere the amount of grain that came up on the red) Any way I don't like to bitch or even post on the site. I think you are doing a great thing with the red and your company. I'm not a "red fan" just a working dop.

[Josué Ignacio Saldaña]

Please don't start this debate again. We covered this ages ago, and decided against it. Everyone simply needs to act like the adults they are, and everything will be fine. Ignore incendiary comments. Period.

I hear that... lets hope that "incendiary comments" will stop or at least be ignored by the team... I just get frustrated for them at times.

[cinemano]

Jim.. are you sure 2D cinema monstro is a future-proof choice for the EPiC?
is RED team considering a 3d camera? how about a two-scarlet mount set-up for 3d shoots?

[Jared Caldwell]

Jim.. are you sure 2D cinema monstro is a future-proof choice for the EPiC?
is RED team considering a 3d camera? how about a two-scarlet mount set-up for 3d shoots?

You can visit the Scarlet forum for a little bit of 3Dage. Jim has already hinted at a possible 3D connection for Scarlet.

:D

Jared

[Joseph Hutson]

You can visit the Scarlet forum for a little bit of 3Dage. Jim has already hinted at a possible 3D connection for Scarlet.

:D

Jared

He did say you can link them together.

[Paris Remillard]

Is there any ETA on the 4.5K 2.40:1? Just checking in and eagerly anticipating. Thanks.

[Paris Remillard]

Bump for ETA.... : )

[Shawn Nelson]

Oh yeah, forgot about this!

[Jannard]

Slight delay... with all the SDK and Adobe stuff going on, it got pushed just a bit. Build 17 is looming...

Jim

[Rick Darge]

Jim, never keep stuff not looming. What else would we have to look forward to?

[Jochen Schmidt-Hambrock]

Build 17 is looming...

Jim

I´ve been loomed at since April 06......
Does that make me a loomee?

;-)

Jochen

[Jase]

The RED ONE will soon be able to shoot 4.5K, 2.40:1 at 30fps. Expect to see this very soon.

I just blew a load.