Epic WITH backfocus AND fully compatible with IMS + Birger

[Thor Wixom]

First, please forgive the Photoshop work...

If the Epic were to put the sensor in a configuration similar to the image below, it could be possible to put the backfocus collar so that it is behind the sensor, and thus makes it possible to mount an P+S IMS AND a Birger, without losing the Red's AMAZING backfocus abilities.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/665_1214958895.jpg

It's obviously too late for the Red One, but this could be done on the Epic.

-Thor

[Alexander Nikishin]

Epic and still lenses? No, please no.

Epic is the cream of the crop, go Cooke and Zeiss or go home. :sarcasm:

[Paul Hazlett]

Now thats not very sporting AN. If Thor wants to use nikons or any other
glass that should be his choice. Remember they used nikons in the bourne
supremacy.

Its all about the options.

[Peter Majtan]

Alex - still lenses were always by nature exposing a lot larger piece of film that the cine-kind. On top of that - You can get away with a lot in motion, but stills are scrutinized to the smallest detail... I never understood why cine lenses have to be so much more expensive... No offense...

(PS: I haven't shoot the primes, but I have been using ARRI VP's on my Varicams...)

[Thor Wixom]

Alexander,

I'm at home...

...and I need autofocus.

Cooke and Zeiss don't offer that.

Designing the Epic to use still lenses does not prevent you from using whatever you want, so I don't know why you feel it necessary to rain on my parade.

...but I might as well pack my bags because I'm sure that you and others will now send me on the autofocus guilt trip.

Try this, Alexander... no really try it!

1. Start with ANY Cooke or Zeiss lens you want... Heck, through in the Angenieux zooms for that matter...

2. Get your hands on the most advanced FF device you can think of (wireless, or whatever).

3. Bring the most skilled focus puller you know.

4. Go to a race track. Pick a car. Pretend like that car is the one you've been hired to shoot.

5. Pick a spot where you have a good angle on the rolling start.

6. Stay wide open here (no cheating), so you can draw attention to your clients car by keeping it in focus, and keeping his competitor's cars out of focus.

7. Pull out your tape, walk onto the course and measure... oh, yeah. You can't do step number 7. Not only do you not know which line the driver will pick as he jockeys for position, you'll get your ass booted from the track!

8. So guesstimate where you think the cars will be as they roll from about 60-80 mph, to about 120-150 during the start.

9. Remember, you only get one chance to shoot the start. This is a very important shot. Your client is requiring that you nail it! You CAN'T screw up. There are no second "takes". There is no "go back to one".

Your focus puller does his best, but there are too many variables, and the action goes by too quickly.

Then you look over your shoulder and notice there's another Red on the track. An Epic. With a Canon 55-250. With autofocus. You watch him play back the shot. He nailed it. Just like he would on a DSLR... because that's what the Red essentially is. A still camera that shoots at high frame rates.

We don't belittle the best action photographers in the world for using autofocus on the still cameras. Why belittle professionals who want to use their Red in the same way?

-Thor

The following shot was taken a few years ago with a DSLR, in the middle of a rolling start, through an autofocus lens. The "focus" is on the car that we were hired to shoot. I wish it could have been on a Red with a Birger.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/665_1214963868.jpg

EDIT: Changed picture to a slightly smaller size, so it would fit in the browser window better.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Now thats not very sporting AN. If Thor wants to use nikons or any other
glass that should be his choice. Remember they used nikons in the bourne
supremacy.

Its all about the options.

I agree it's all about options.... And the mock-up of EPIC shown at NAB had the same PL mount that RED has. Or at least it looked the same on the outside, who knows what we'll actually get with EPIC. If it's the same, then presumably the same mount adapters that work on RED will work on EPIC.

The Nikon glass used on Bourne were some pretty expensive conversions. They didn't just throw a couple Nikon zooms onto a Nikon adapted camera.

I personally wouldn't be spending all the money on EPIC with plans of using Nikon or Canon still lenses on it. While they may be great optically, they're lacking for cinema use mechanically and in terms of breathing, focus retention, etc..

[Thor Wixom]

I'm counting on the Birger to level the playing field, perhaps not entirely, but enough.

Having Birger + IMS would be that much better, mounting virtually any type of lens, smart or dumb, including PL.

If both systems played nice together, AND we could still have the legendary Red backfocus adjuster... what's not to love?

If I take the (so-called) risk of using still lenses on my Epic, why should that ruffle anyone's feathers? Whose toes am I stepping on?

Yes, I will be upgrading to the Epic.

Yes, I plan to put still lenses on it.

Yes, I will also be using the Cooke and Zeiss lenses he thinks I *ought* to be using. (At least the Zeiss anyway. I have had my Red for over 6 months now and I have rented Superspeeds, Ultras and Masters several times each. There are no Cookes in my market.)

And last but not least... yes, I would like it if Red would make it easier to adjust and retain back focus for all these solutions.

My Red. My choice. Bottom line.

Alexander, I think you were unnecessarily harsh in your criticism. Using stills on the Epic does not require me to "go home"... whatever that means.

-Thor

[Bruce Allen]

Epic and still lenses? No, please no.

Epic is the cream of the crop, go Cooke and Zeiss or go home. :sarcasm:

But it'd be cool to have:
- panavision lens option
- optical viewfinder option

...which the P+S system is supposed to give you, right?

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[Sanjin Jukic]

... to mount an P+S IMS AND a Birger, without losing the Red's AMAZING backfocus abilities.

-Thor

P+S IMS AND Birger on EPIC or RED... an excellent idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Thor Wixom]

P+S IMS AND Birger on EPIC or RED... an excellent idea!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks, Sanjin.

I knew you would support that suggestion.

I can't wait to mount Leica lenses on my Red One, and eventually, my Epic!

-Thor