Hard Drive to Telecine?

[igallery]

I am getting ready for my first RED shoot. Has anyone figured how to bring footage to a real Telecine?

This is a commercial shoot and the client used to Telecine sessions. Has anyone done it?

Thanks!

[James T Mather]

Hard Drive to Telecine?

maybe you should take the bus :)

I've Tk'd red footage - they usually just patch it through like a master grade from tape or ram drive. make sure the post house know that they're bringing in footage from a Red camera so they can prep for conversion is all. Other than that, it's the same.

[M Most]

I am getting ready for my first RED shoot. Has anyone figured how to bring footage to a real Telecine?

This is a commercial shoot and the client used to Telecine sessions. Has anyone done it?

Thanks!

You can't bring anything but film to a telecine because a telecine is, by definition, a machine that transfers film to video.

If you're talking about color correction, and specifically, color correction on a DaVinci or Pogle device, the answer is yes, but both of those devices are video devices - so the material will have to either be played into them as video (there are a number of ways facilities can do this) or transferred to videotape first. If the material is in the form of files(s), you also have the option of using a file based color corrector, such as a Lustre, Baselight, Pablo, Nucoda Film Master, Scratch (all commonly found in various post facilities), or other device that will access the material directly, although you'll need to make sure that the format you're supplying is acceptable.

[James T Mather]

You can't bring anything but film to a telecine because a telecine is, by definition, a machine that transfers film to video.




I get the feeling he knows that - It was, I daresay, a figure of speech.

[igallery]

I get the feeling he knows that - It was, I daresay, a figure of speech.

Obviously :) I am talking about traditional DaVinci Telecine house like Riot. When I ask them if I can bring RED footage on a hard drive I get this mumbling answer that doesn't sound very convincing. So it's either finding a post house that is used to "file based color corrector" or figuring out how it could be "played into them as video" yourself.

I would love to be able to use colorists that I am used to.

Thanks for the input!

[M Most]

Obviously :) I am talking about traditional DaVinci Telecine house like Riot. When I ask them if I can bring RED footage on a hard drive I get this mumbling answer that doesn't sound very convincing. So it's either finding a post house that is used to "file based color corrector" or figuring out how it could be "played into them as video" yourself.

I would love to be able to use colorists that I am used to.

Thanks for the input!

If you're talking about doing this at the beginning of the process, the problem is that R3d files need to be converted to, well, something else in order to be used by anything other than Scratch. And there are very few places in L.A. that use Scratch for color correction, at least in a proper environment and with video monitoring, as you would find in a DaVinci room. So you need to be more specific about exactly what you're going to bring them, how much of it you're bringing, how long they have to prep it, and what you expect to walk out with. Then they can give you some numbers.

[M Most]

I get the feeling he knows that - It was, I daresay, a figure of speech.

The word "telecine" is not a figure of speech. It is a specific term with a specific meaning. If you want to reinvent it, I guess I can't stop you. But it means what it means, and if you're going to work in this industry, you should use terminology properly so that others understand what it is you're talking about without you having to explain the terminology you've personally redefined.

Getting off pulpit now.

[Noah Kadner]

Obviously :) I am talking about traditional DaVinci Telecine house like Riot. When I ask them if I can bring RED footage on a hard drive I get this mumbling answer that doesn't sound very convincing. So it's either finding a post house that is used to "file based color corrector" or figuring out how it could be "played into them as video" yourself.

I would love to be able to use colorists that I am used to.

Thanks for the input!

I kinda doubt they've never done a digital project before, in fact I did one with them back in '98. Perhaps they just haven't seen a RED project before. If you bring in your project as a DPX or TGA sequence you should be fine. That or find another joint. If you can afford a house like Riot you can definitely afford one that can be a bit more helpful with setting up your file transfers.

Noah

[Deanan]

Riot is very experienced with RED footage.

[James T Mather]

The word "telecine" is not a figure of speech. It is a specific term with a specific meaning. If you want to reinvent it, I guess I can't stop you. But it means what it means, and if you're going to work in this industry, you should use terminology properly so that others understand what it is you're talking about without you having to explain the terminology you've personally redefined.

Getting off pulpit now.

I've been working in this industry for twenty years - but thanks for the patronising response. Nice.

[M Most]

I've been working in this industry for twenty years - but thanks for the patronising response. Nice.

I wasn't being patronizing, I was speaking truth. However, I refuse to get into a pissing match about it. You're right. I'm wrong. Use terminology however you want. Everyone will understand.

Happier?

[James T Mather]

/ignore.

[M Most]

I kinda doubt they've never done a digital project before, in fact I did one with them back in '98. Perhaps they just haven't seen a RED project before. If you bring in your project as a DPX or TGA sequence you should be fine. That or find another joint. If you can afford a house like Riot you can definitely afford one that can be a bit more helpful with setting up your file transfers.


It's not necessarily a matter of being helpful, it's a matter of budgeting time. If one walks into a video post facility with an HDCam tape, there is no special setup time required, no file copying required, and no need to reformat anything. You pop the tape in, route the machine to a DaVinci, and go. If you walk in with a hard drive expecting to go right into a real time color correction session, that's a bit more involved because the files need to be copied, they need to possibly be reformatted, and none of this is instantaneous, especially for a longform piece, but even for daily clips. I think you'd be surprised as to how many times clients have walked into the building with a Firewire drive that has a 60 minute long uncompressed HD Quicktime clip (i.e., about 500 GB) on it and expected us to somehow, magically, plug it into something and instantly play it in real time through a DaVinci. Facilities can only be helpful if they're informed ahead of time as to what you're going to show up with and what your needs are. Part of the responsibility lies with the client to properly inform the facility of these needs prior to walking in the door for the scheduled session.

[igallery]

If you bring in your project as a DPX or TGA sequence you should be fine.

So which one should it be? Any difference?

[igallery]

Riot is very experienced with RED footage.

Great! Who did you work with and what format should the files be in?

Thank you!

[M Most]

Great! Who did you work with and what format should the files be in?


Targa is an 8 bit format, so I wouldn't recommend it. Other than that, all facilities can read just about all formats. Asking here isn't going to give you the "one right answer" you seem to want. If you want Riot to do this, call them and discuss specifics. And if the first person they put you on with - likely a customer service or scheduling person - doesn't understand what you are asking, ask to speak to someone who does. As I mentioned earlier, you need to let them know what you have, what you want to do, and what you need to walk away with. If you give them that information, I'm sure they'll be quite helpful.

[igallery]

Thank you!

[Lucas Wilson]

...And there are very few places in L.A. that use Scratch for color correction, at least in a proper environment and with video monitoring, as you would find in a DaVinci room.

Now Mike... It *has* been several months since you moved out of LA. :)

There are more than 20 rooms in LA that have SCRATCH installed in a color-calibrated environment and can do this kind of work.

"igallery" - please contact me offlist at lucas <at> assimilateinc <dot> com and I can hook you up with some.

Best,

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA

[jimhare]

I've heard horror stories about tape based houses grading RED footage.

Like dumping it to Digi Beta from proxies to do a tape to tape, and then complaining about a limited color space and crunchy images!

Just make sure they understand the work flow.

[M Most]

I've heard horror stories about tape based houses grading RED footage.

Like dumping it to Digi Beta from proxies to do a tape to tape, and then complaining about a limited color space and crunchy images!

Just make sure they understand the work flow.

I wouldn't necessarily blame that on a post facility. Clients will come in and request things, and as a service business, you politely offer alternatives, but in the end, you do what they ask you to do, just like a lab. When a client comes in and says "I shot this on Red, but I need DigiBeta. So I want to put it on DigiBeta, then we can color correct it," you might offer the opinion that there might be a better way to do this, but when they insist that "I read that this is the best way to do this, so do it this way", you then shut up and do it. That's not always the case, but especially with local commercial clients, it's often what happens.

And as far as understanding "the work flow," there isn't any one work flow for this stuff. That's the whole point. There are multiple ways to handle it that offer different levels of convenience, turnaround time, and quality. You choose one, or a combination of more than one, based on your budget, available time, and deliverable product. That's as true for the facility as it is for the clients.

[James T Mather]

Having dealt with a few post houses on workflow I can safely say that most of them have got on top of the system generally. Grading etc hasn't been a problem although the biggest headache is the transfer time from r3d to something editable. I imagine when Avid (the industry standard editor as far as most of them seem to be concerned here) and Red get together and create some bridge it will greatly ease the workflow issues. Around here it seems to be the biggest obstacle for mainstream work.

[sbaechler]

Just make sure you drop the hard drive off at the post facility the day before the grading. And also make sure they actually copy the files overnight.

edit: The post hous we work currently with actually wanted the drive more than a day in advance because they not just have to copy 600GB of dpx files from a USB drive but also render the proxies for their color grading suite.

Last year I went to a digital grading and the guys at the post house had forgotten to load up the footage the day before. We spent four hours in the online bay watching the Avid copy the files. Luckily we had a flat rate ;-)