Cinematography.com and her Jerks...

[vidalsosa]

"Professional film Cinematographers" like... (they know themselves and so do we)... of cinematography.com (Jerks for all I care) with their lame-to-non-existent imdb credits are still wallowing in self deceit and resisting to accept their obsolescence even with futurist minded filmmakers like Peter Jackson already adding Red credits to their reel.

I say, exterminate jerks and save us from their noxious mindsets!!!

To Red and the team, I say, keep shoving it to the jerks of this industry... like the narrow minded jerks at cinematography.com!:sarcasm:

[Manfred Lopez]

While many here might agree with you, I don't think it's nice to single people out by their real names on this forum (especially since this forum doesn't have a real-name policy). Also I think this is just confrontational. I don't think we should fall to their level. So far this forum has succeeded because of a constructive, pro-development and innovation attitude. Just my 2 cents...

[Drew Mylrea]

So negative, lets just do our thing and be Stoked about what's happening over here!

[Paul Wizikowski]

RED will quickly bear the fruits of its labor. Even the stubborn will see their arguement fall apart.

I just hope the REDONE doesn't suffer some defect after shipping to fuel their fire! I fully expect this camera to get picked apart by the same people who have doubted all along. I expect them to not like, to think its to small or too unconventional. I even expect to hear how the REDCODE image doesn't stack up to film (an arguement I don't agree with) But you know what? I don't care what they think. Red is here and it IS the future of cinematography.

[Andreas Fernbrant]

Posts like this contribute to a healty enviroment here at REDUser how?

Just because the people over at Cinematography.com don't share our opinions about things don't make them jerks.

[Paolo Tinari]

Please...

[Mike]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion we should just let them be and focus on our own journey.

[vidalsosa]

Just couldnt resist. Jarred, you can delete thread if you may. Apologize for getting overzealous and confrontational like you guys summed it. My bad.

[goldyprog]

Although I am beginning to participate on Reduser.net, as I am very excited about Red, I am also a member of cinematography.com. I was definitely not offended by the original remarks, but, and you probably know this, a handful of people shouldn't represent the entire consensus-- some are probably "pro-Red", others may have their reservations. Cinematography.com is an excellent and professional forum, and although I don't participate in discussions pertaining to Red over there, I am confident that the morale pertaining to Red is mixed instead of one-sided.

[ChristopherKenworthy]

There are often posts about 'cinematography snobs' in here, and it's true that many cinematographers are really snobbish and slow to change. But that's good. Without those cinematographers complaining about problems with digital, we might not have got much further than HDV by now. They keep us on our toes. And I love that fact that cinematographers are such purists. Mine is trying to talk me into renting a set of Zeiss Master Primes that will cost more than my entire Red kit. And to keep this on topic, I'd say that it doesn't matter what people say about Red at cinematography.com, when Peter Jackson is giving this project his tacit approval.

And don't forget that it's our job to show the doubters that we can get results that match (or exceed) film.

[Manfred Lopez]

Cinematography.com is an excellent and professional forum, and although I don't participate in discussions pertaining to Red over there, I am confident that the morale pertaining to Red is mixed instead of one-sided.

I have been a long-time follower of the soap opera that is their Red subforum (where else can you see Jim getting mano-a-mano with some of the detractors :gun: ), and I can definitelly agree that the opinions are mixed and not one-sided (after all Jim and Graeme post over there). I do believe that all their other subforums are very useful. It's just the Red subforum...

[vidalsosa]

But in all honesty, reading most of the downright mean spirited things they post there on the Red subforum (even as late as today, yes, today, can you even begin to imagine?) one can't help but see what real "professionals" they truly are. I mean let's face it, who cares what anyone thinks of a good thing. It's a good day alright, but jer.... I'll resist it this time.

Let's just enjoy the day and resist checking what the self sworn detractors think of it. I guess in life, you can never win 'em all.

[Eirik Tyrihjel]

I think we can all agree on one thing, there is a lot of entertainment in the posts over at cinematography.com (as long as one doesn´t take them to seriously), if you are bored one day I suggest you go back to the first posts and read through - it´s very entertaining.

[dalen johnson]

Well, all kind of people in the world I suppose...havent read the comments yet.

Point is Jim has the money to do what he wants with it.
When I found out he owned oakely and had a billione, I knew he could do it.

Peace

Just to add in there...people have their ego boxes, and pre-defined notion of things.
You have to be a free spirit to catch that the sky is the limit.
This isnt safe for most people as they fear their 'world' may crumble.

[Sanjin Jukic]

Mostly the member of Cinematography.com are bunch of impotence men. That is a main problem. They should rename forum at CINEMATOGRAPHIMPOTENCY.COM.

[vidalsosa]

Mostly the member of Cinematography.com are bunch of impotence men. That is a main problem. They should rename forum at CINEMATOGRAPHIMPOTENCY.COM.

LOL!!!

[Stephen Webb]

I'm not a member of Cinematography.com, but I do occassionally read posts on there and I can understand the urge to respond in this way (you should resist that urge btw!)

I've been a member of Cinematography.net (the other one) for a few years and it is sad how vehemently anti-Red some of them are. Part of the problem is that pro-Red supporters (like me) tend to keep quiet and wait to see what Red produce, fully expecting it to speak for itself.

The one time I've allowed myself to get suckered into an argument over there I've really regretted it. For people who are claiming to be professional, their lack of objectivity and reasoned argument (whilst claiming the complete opposite) is astounding. I've noticed most of the "real" pro's (ie, people you'd have heard of) have very little to do with CML though (I did see Oliver Stapleton post on there once though - he got shot down in flames too!)

There's some real sour grapes amongst some of the "professionals" on CML and Cinematography.com, largely based around the fact that Red hasn't been a tightly guarded development which only they have been allowed input too. At the end of the day, there are some top professionals who are very interested (if not directly involved) with the project and it's their opinion that is going to get heard in the industry.

Red will stand or fall on its own merits. Professional Cinematographers will be completely unharmed by it, 'cause if it's good enough they'll be using it (and remember it's the individual that gets hired, not the camera).

When you hear the guys on these boards complaining and attacking the project, chill out and remember that ultimately they won't make any difference.

[david farland]

Well said..Steve!

[Emmanuel Decarpentrie]

Professional Cinematographers will be completely unharmed by it, 'cause if it's good enough they'll be using it (and remember it's the individual that gets hired, not the camera)

+1

I fully agree with you, Stephen!

While I understand "cinematography.com" 's users main argument that "Red won't change everything" and that they've heard many times the same song "film is dead", I also think they are too much on the negative side of that argument, as if they really were scared of something... Scared to learn something new? Scared to face new competition? Scared to be forced to abandon their beloved medium -- film -- for many projects? Don't get me wrong, I don't believe film will completly die anytime soon. But I think that 5 years from now, many more productions will be shot digitaly rather than with film.

I think a proper analogy would be to compare the Red to the first affordable Non Linear Editing systems, quite a few years ago... Back then, many professionals also didn't foresee the impact NLEs would have on the industry. They all smiled and ridiculed the "NLE believers"! Eventually, history proved them all wrong!

In that sense, I do believe the Red will truly change the way we work! And, like with any change, you either can adapt yourself, or slowly die... That's the way it is :)

[ericyoung]

Guys. Let's keep it civilised over here.

Naming names (please edit them out of the first post - we know who they are) and throwing personal insults just means we are playing the same game as the detractors. Let's show our professionalism by being above that.

We can all celebrate BIG time without descending into gloating (tempting as it is! :wink: ).

[ericyoung]

Guys. Let's keep it civilised over here.

Naming names (please edit them out of the first post - we know who they are) and throwing personal insults just means we are playing the same game as the detractors. Let's show our professionalism by being above that.

We should all celebrate BIG time without descending into gloating (tempting as it is! :wink: ).

[Ace]

Now now.. No need for namecalling.

This stuff blatantly violates Jarreds no offense forum policies.

[Manfred Lopez]

I also vote for the names to be edited out. It is only a matter of time before those two named find out about this thread and stir up even more trouble for Jim or the Red project.

[Il_Capitano]

I read posts on Cinematography.com, although I don't post often, and think this thread is completely uncalled for. People have a right to their opinion, they also have a right to reserve judgement until they try something.

[vidalsosa]

I read posts on Cinematography.com, although I don't post often, and think this thread is completely uncalled for. People have a right to their opinion, they also have a right to reserve judgement until they try something.

Are you sure you don't post often there... this being your 1st post here, makes me think otherwise (LOL)

[vidalsosa]

Guys. Let's keep it civilised over here.

Naming names (please edit them out of the first post - we know who they are) and throwing personal insults just means we are playing the same game as the detractors. Let's show our professionalism by being above that.

We should all celebrate BIG time without descending into gloating (tempting as it is! :wink: ).

Done!

As much as nobody wants to go down this negative path with them, nor stir up any troubles, someone has got to keep putting things in perspective as it relates to these habitual prophets of doom.

It just sucks having to have people over your shoulder yapping thrash in the name of some elitist professional crap!

[Stephen Webb]

And just to put things in some perspective (playing Devil's Advocate) I can understand how some of the more overt and unbridled enthusiasm on these boards could rub people up the wrong way, especially those who are used to testing and learning before reaching a conclusion :)

[Joe Carney]

IF you can get past the very few obnoxious jerks over there, cinematography.com has a lot of wisdom available for all. Many of us are moving from 1/3" chip HDV to the RED and it s35mm shooting style. If you stay out of the RED subforum and check out the film subforums, there is a lot you can pick up.
Now is the time to start asksing the right questions, not after you get your camera.
I'm hoping to hire a good camera operator/DP who could school me on the basics.

And for the last time people, film is not going anywhere. We just have another tool now. We should take the high road and allow people to adjust to the new reality.

Finally...David Mullen over there has been a voice of reason and always willing to share his expertise. You'll take advantage of that if you're smart.

[ChristopherKenworthy]

cinematography.com has a lot of wisdom available for all.

Zeke, you are right. These product wars go on everywhere - Coke versus Pepsi, Apple versus Microsoft, Piper versus Cessna, Red versus The Rest. They all feel the same; quality underdog versus mainstream giant. It's rather dull. I learned to fly in a Piper, but I've learned a lot from Cessna. I use a Mac, but boot Windows sometimes. If desperate, I might even drink Pepsi.

My point: the generous posts at cinematography.com are gold. Just ingore the ones that offend. If you love your Red camera, who cares about film-fans?

[feb31films]

-- some are probably "pro-Red", others may have their reservations.

I have a reservation - it's RED #985. :usd:

[Sanjin Jukic]

Ok. Peace.

[Brook Willard]

I know many of you see this massive disparity between the other forum and ours... and it may or may not be there... but I want to step above it. I don't want to feed a war by taking part in it. We know who we are and we're here to make good.

I'm moving this to OT and I'm planning on locking it after making sure I'm on the same page as the other yellow names.

[donatello b]

NAB - it's a new day ...
IMO - put behind all our thoughts - impressions of those nay sayers on those other boards ... lets go forward starting with NAB 2007 ... the few persons that i know that post on some of those boards placed orders after/during their visit to RED booth ...

[vidalsosa]

... I'm moving this to OT and I'm planning on locking it after making sure I'm on the same page as the other yellow names.

Like I said earlier, Brook, you can go ahead and delete the thread, but there was, I believe a need to reflect on how far we've come and who else was there all along.

In the process of doing this, you can't help but remember quotes from those that said it couldn't be. Those that did not only express their reservations, but also resorted to namecalling, castigating and arrogant condescending talk; those that went out of their way to confront, discourage and dissuade well intended folks, like me, you and the rest of us that cast our lots with the Red team. If for nothing else, but just had to remind them of their words... words that will stick with them forever, even as we embark on this Red Digital journey into new frontiers.

This is the intention of this thread. Now back to the good news....

[Ace]

People make mistakes. Big mistakes. Its their burden.

[Film_Man]

Too late on removing the real names, they already know about it at cinematography.com.

http://www.cinematography.com/forum2004/index.php?showtopic=22368&st=0&gopid=167693&#entry167693

One of the members, R. Boddington, appears to enjoy the notoriety.

David,

[Manfred Lopez]

One of the members, R. Boddington, appears to enjoy the notoriety.

David,

...Like we care.

[Michael "Dorkman" Scott]

Come on guys, how can you take a guy like that seriously? 3 *recent* movies you've never heard of under his belt, despite how he apparently fancies himself one of the "old guard", and nothing better to do but troll a message board for a camera that he claims to care nothing about (yet he sure does post about it a lot!).

You really think his opinion matters to anyone other than himself? Give it a rest. He's just desperate for attention, so quit giving it to him.

[Manfred Lopez]

Brook? How about a complete lock-down on this thread right about now.

[der4]

The focus shouldn't be "film is dead." The focus should be "digital is alive." I shot my first feature in 35mm. I then shot my second feature in HD. I loved the digital workflow but I preferred the films quality image. RED is bridging the gap. Remember we don't want to fight them, we want to win them over. A positive approach is much more appropriate and professional. "Proof is in the pudding." Take out the sugar (professionalism) and it just isn't going to taste very good. Let's be productive.

[Brook Willard]

Yeah, it's time to lock it. We are entitled to our opinions, but I can't justify leaving a thread open that's openly attacking another forum.

Like I say... we're all friends here. Let us be the better man.