Good (& bad) news for UK Red Buyers

[PaulClements]

Due to the Bank of Englands strange decision of late you can now buy over $2 for £1 (The first time since 1992). Interest rates are set to rise which means that mortgages and retail prices in the UK will suffer, so for many it's not necessarily that good news.

So as it stands at the moment a RedOne costs £8735.80... bargain, shame that everything else in the country will skyrocket.

How long will it last? Depends on a number of things, expect inflation to cool down over the summer and the price of the £ vs $ to do the same at some point.

I will try and have a word with a friend of mine who is an actuary and get more details about where we can expect import prices to be later this year.

The Euro is also quite high at the moment against the dollar too.

[Moir]

Paul

If your actuary friend can tell you where the Pound will be against the USD later this year, perhaps you can also get him to tell us who will win the FA Cup ;)

On a serious note, shop around for the best exchange rate when your number comes up; for a large purchase like this it might make sense to use a forex dealer rather than let your bank or CC issuer give you a crappy tourist rate.

[PaulClements]

True about the dealer issue.

The actuary ought to have a better handle on where it will be in a few months time than most though. Taking into account the repurcussions of raising interest rates, cooling offs etc. And warn of any impending problems that might cause it to lower. I'm not saying he'll give a definite figure but something slightly more reliable than my input.

[Moir]

Well, I work in finance - not that it makes me any particular expert on currency movements. The UK inflation figure announced today is the highest for 10 years, which makes it likely there will be another interest rate rise. This should, in theory, strengthen GBP against USD, although anticipation of such a rise might already be fully factored into the exchange rate.

Bottom line is this: if you could predict with any accuracy where a given forex rate will be in, say, 3 months time, you would be a rich man. If you are really worried that rates will fall, there is a simple answer: buy the USD now and forget about what rates will do between now and your payment date.

What your actuary friend will be able to tell you is how many years you have left, on average, to enjoy your Red before you shuffle off this mortal coil :)

[Mike the beginner]

Well, I work in finance - not that it makes me any particular expert on currency movements. The UK inflation figure announced today is the highest for 10 years, which makes it likely there will be another interest rate rise. This should, in theory, strengthen GBP against USD, although anticipation of such a rise might already be fully factored into the exchange rate.

Bottom line is this: if you could predict with any accuracy where a given forex rate will be in, say, 3 months time, you would be a rich man. If you are really worried that rates will fall, there is a simple answer: buy the USD now and forget about what rates will do between now and your payment date.

What your actuary friend will be able to tell you is how many years you have left, on average, to enjoy your Red before you shuffle off this mortal coil :)

Agreed. accurate statement as far as accuracy can be estimated in an ever changing market.

Someone told me the import duty on lenses is 8%? would that be right?

I thought Paul mentioned around 6% for the camera at uk import. If there is a difference then would the EVF be looked apon as a lens...surely not.


Purchasing dollers in advance? how then do you pay for the camera etc if you are intending to have it shipped to you from America. Has anyone got any good advice for paying for things either now or later at the best exchange rate place other than using your mastercard.

Mike the beginner

[Ziggy Uszkurat]

Well we have a dollar account cos we do business in the USA anyway. Like others have said, it's very difficult to judge which way the exchange rate will go by the time we take delivery of our camera. So, we've decided to hedge and buy dollars now.

But as always, ymmv...

Ziggx

[Mike the beginner]

Well we have a dollar account cos we do business in the USA anyway. Like others have said, it's very difficult to judge which way the exchange rate will go by the time we take delivery of our camera. So, we've decided to hedge and buy dollars now.

But as always, ymmv...

Ziggx

I undertand that, but once you purchased the dollers how do you buy the goods here in UK with dollers in your pocket? You get what i mean!

Any answer would be appreciated thanks

[Moir]

Mike

You can transfer USD from the UK to the US by electronic transfer. You simply instruct your bank to send funds to a specified account in the US. Red should be able to give us wiring details for their bank account. Charges for doing this vary but tend to be in the £25-£40 range in my experience.

[Ziggy Uszkurat]

Don't forget you'll need a SWIFT code, an IBAN and a routing code...

Ziggx

[roryhinds]

Red will not take money in advance of shipping.

I already tried this and ask RED if I could pay for the camera so it will fall in 2006 tax year, but the answer was NO.

So do you think Credit Card companies charge a worse exchange than a bank transfer?

I always thought the banks are the bad ones and CC is better.

[Mike the beginner]

There is an advert in the Financial times entitled "How to get the best exchange rate" The company is called Caxton EX Ltd. I will phone them tomorrow and see what they say. They claim compared to banks you will save money doing it through them. Their tel number is 0845 658 2224.


How does the shipping work? Does red charge YOU the import duty and Vat up front OR do they sent the goods and you have to then write to declare the import duty and Vat? I know red team are busy so perhaps someone could let us know what the situation is. Thank you for any info it is appreciated.


Mike the beginner

[Simon Dean]

The duty and VAT are usually paid as the goods come into the country - normally the shipping agent pays and then you have to pay them to get your goods. They also put their own surcharge on this. (Like £20 or something).

If you're a VAT registered business you then claim the VAT back later. Can't claim the import duties though - downer.

You can't pay them early because that would mess up there accounts - bringing unrealised sales into the year is very Enron like. Not allowed.

Consider signing up with XE.com if you thinking for large amounts of exchanges - effectively you can set up foreign currency accounts really easy and you get an IBAN no. etc. I believe they're very competitive.

[Ziggy Uszkurat]

Stuff shipped from the States comes with a Customs Declaration - any taxes are usually collected by the delivery agent before they'll hand over the goods. As there seems to be some confusion about which tax rate the RED fits into, I intend to discuss this with HM Customs & Excise and sort it prior to delivery. ;

(By way of explanation, the camera comes without a lens so it just might be taxed at 6% -- there's a degree of ambiguity in the lists -- but given the way the VAT man works, don't bet them accepting a lower rate!)

Ziggx

[roryhinds]

Credit cards charge a currency conversion fee. MBNA Business charge 2.25% so thats another cost to factor into if you plan to put it on the card.

Also check out http://corporate.visa.com/pd/consumer_services/consumer_ex_rates.jsp

which give you the visa exchange rate for you card.

[roryhinds]

http://www.caxtonfx.com/

[ericyoung]

Since camera bodies, lenses, accessories are going to be in different categories with different duties, but many of us (including individuals) could be ordering them all as a package being delivered at the same time - what are the chances that we will be overcharged customs duties and VAT by the carrier? Then I don't fancy our chances of easily sorting out refunds!

Can't see Royal Mail or other carriers bothering to work out all the different rates for different items in a single package - can you?

How do we stop that happening? Anyone with lots of import experience with non-standard goods?

The Red body with its single CMOS chip and different, or even no, built-in recording options might be considered to fall outside the usual customs categories. I'm sure we are all interested in minimising extra costs!

[Stephen Williams]

Since camera bodies, lenses, accessories are going to be in different categories with different duties, but many of us (including individuals) could be ordering them all as a package being delivered at the same time - what are the chances that we will be overcharged customs duties and VAT by the carrier? Then I don't fancy our chances of easily sorting out refunds!

Can't see Royal Mail or other carriers bothering to work out all the different rates for different items in a single package - can you?

How do we stop that happening? Anyone with lots of import experience with non-standard goods?

The Red body with its single CMOS chip and different, or even no, built-in recording options might be considered to fall outside the usual customs categories. I'm sure we are all interested in minimising extra costs!


Hi Eric,

You will probably be charged the wrong rate!

Last month I sold a 35mm camera to the UK, I correctly declared it and gave the correct Tax no, the UK tax people decided that it was a 16mm camera and charged another rate!

Stephen

[ericyoung]

Hi Eric,

You will probably be charged the wrong rate!

Last month I sold a 35mm camera to the UK, I correctly declared it and gave the correct Tax no, the UK tax people decided that it was a 16mm camera and charged another rate!

Stephen

Oh crap! Not good news - did the buyer ever get any money back (assuming it was more expensive)?

[Mike the beginner]

Since camera bodies, lenses, accessories are going to be in different categories with different duties, but many of us (including individuals) could be ordering them all as a package being delivered at the same time - what are the chances that we will be overcharged customs duties and VAT by the carrier? Then I don't fancy our chances of easily sorting out refunds!

Can't see Royal Mail or other carriers bothering to work out all the different rates for different items in a single package - can you?

How do we stop that happening? Anyone with lots of import experience with non-standard goods?

The Red body with its single CMOS chip and different, or even no, built-in recording options might be considered to fall outside the usual customs categories. I'm sure we are all interested in minimising extra costs!

My sentiments exactly.

[roryhinds]

Yes getting charge the wrong rate by Royal Mail is an given.

I've only had this happen a few times from purchases made via ebay.

If you ship with a proper courier like UPS or Fedex (UPS is much better) which I'm sure RED will use then its not a problem as I've never had a problem with UPS and import rates.

Fedex is crap and have a policy of just giving it to anyone who answers the door, which on a purchase like this is not good.

[PaulClements]

Fedex is crap and have a policy of just giving it to anyone who answers the door, which on a purchase like this is not good.

Even if they have to collect a few thousand in tax and duties? Sounds like Fedex is pretty good :)

[Nick Shaw]

Normally with a purchase of any sigificant value FedEx will hold the item at customs, and phone you to ask for payment of the duty before they deliver it. I guess that once that has been paid, they don't care who they give it to as long as they get a signature!

[Robert Horwell]

I use ozforex, you can watch the market change live on line and buy when you are happy, if you buy dollars now you can leave them in your account and send them when you wish, using the ozforex wire system, just setup the details of the payee in your account, hopefully RED will be able to supply us with details for wire transfers online. I just sent 16K USD and was very happy with the way it all worked.

[David Collard]

Please shop around for the best exchange rates when you're ready. The credit cards are terrible. There are companies which charge a flat service fee and a small percentage above the interbank rate. Also, I would bet that the pound will get marginally stronger, but keep in mind that higher interest rates may be offset by sullied data of increased inflation, thereby lowering the pound's strength.

[jamesedwelland]

I have used Caxton FX in the past with success. There are other companies too - some of which slightly cheaper but not always UK based so not, as I understand, under UK banking regulations.

As regards inport duty and VAT, these are the tarrif codes and duty rate that I have. Vat payable of course too.:

Camera body
8525 80 19 90 duty 4.9%

Lenses
9002 11 00 90 duty 6.7%

Viewfinder if not packaged with and attached to camera
9002 90 00 90 duty 6.7%

Storage (Ram or HDD)
8523 51 10 00 duty 0%


Please dont take any of this as correct. This was advice given to me by the Customs tarrif classification advice line over the phone. I am interested to know if anyone else gets a different classification or duty rate.

Cheers

james w

[ericyoung]

I have used Caxton FX in the past with success. There are other companies too - some of which slightly cheaper but not always UK based so not, as I understand, under UK banking regulations.

As regards inport duty and VAT, these are the tarrif codes and duty rate that I have. Vat payable of course too.:

Camera body
8525 80 19 90 duty 4.9%
...
Viewfinder if not packaged with and attached to camera
9002 90 00 90 duty 6.7%
...

So if the viewfinder IS attached to the camera, does it only get charged at 4.9% like the camera body? :shifty:

[Stephen Williams]

So if the viewfinder IS attached to the camera, does it only get charged at 4.9% like the camera body? :shifty:

Hi Eric

No, it's sold & itemised separately.

Stephen

[Stephen Williams]

Camera body
8525 80 19 90 duty 4.9%


james w

Hi James,

Not convinced that is the right one! I think Red should put the category on the export documentation in any case.

Stephen

[Álex Montoya]

And what about flying to the US? Do you think you can get the RED body in the plane unnoticed?

[jamesedwelland]

08525 80 91 00 is possible too - same duty rate. What tariff code do you think it should be? I think the codes are EU wide..

Its my understanding that the viwefinder is a seperate item too

james

[jamesedwelland]

Obviously if you buy it in USA you will pay any local sales tax. VAT payable in UK too on import, but you can claim that back if you are VAT registered.

Even if you do sneak it through customs how can you claim the purchase price as a business expense if you have imported it illegally? Makes no sense to me...

[Rob Lohman]

This has been discussed before, these are my thoughts:

1) start talking to a customs official NOW, before your camera ships to get all the info you need (do not trust upon any website / forum for this information)

2) personally I would not try to sneak in $17500+ worth of equipment, you can get into serious trouble if they catch you

3) with that amount of money I would expect you run a business and can get the VAT/tax back anyway

The sooner you start talking to customs the better (I'd say).

I know we Europeans hate the taxes we have to pay. But such things are the way of life. Maybe it's time to start your own business (doesn't take much) if you don't have one?

[roryhinds]

I'd like to add that what ever customs tell you its means very little when it comes time to ship.

I've had many discussions with customs only to have them apply a completely different rule when the item was shipped.

[jamesedwelland]

I agree. Sort out a business plan! The only reason I mentioned the import code classification numbers is that when I spoke to UK customs and excise there seemed to be a little guesswork involved so I was interested to know if other uk buyers obtained the same codes and rate

cheers

james w

[johannperry]

If you were to go to the states to pick up your camera you could do a bit of shopping too with the current great exchange rate. I suppose another thing to think about is that the rate of sales tax in California is much more than other states. So maybe ship to new york, fly there, have a nice weekend with a bit of shopping and fly home with your new camera. Hooray.:bleh:

[jamesedwelland]

oh goodness me!

[Costelloe Michael]

So maybe ship to new york, fly there, have a nice weekend with a bit of shopping and fly home with your new camera. Hooray.:bleh:

A friend of mine did this with some macbook gear. Ordered the gear on a particularly good deal, had it delivered to his hotel, carried the hardware home with his hand luggage and sent the other stuff he bought back by post in the empty packaging boxes. I think the best he did was get a free trip to NY!

..um try that with $20,000 worth of red I think it might be a different outcome.:shiftyph34r:

Mike C

[Fergus Meiklejohn]

When I had my RedRockmicro shipped last year, FEDEX paid the import duty and billed me for it. Seems sensible eh: they know where I live..:watsup:
Let's think clearly about this: we constantly travel all over the world to film. So the problem is not just importing the goods once. I was stopped this morning coming back from Madrid because I had a big bag for a short haul trip! (full of camera equipment). Totally random.. Imagine I had had a previously illegally imported RED camera system in that bag and the official was having a bad day and got arsy with me; took my name and address demanded I produce all my importation documents with 28 days etc etc.
It's not worth the stress:shiftyph34r:
Also as others have pointed out, we can't claim this massive purchase against tax unless we legally import it.

[Columbus]

When I talked to customs they said camera would come under code
8525 801990 which is 4.9%. This is the code for professional video cameras without a recording device attached.
The viewfinder if not attached to camera and calculated as a separate item would be 8528 5990 90 if under 38mm in size or 8528 5990 10 if over 38mm . This is for a LCD viewfinder, bad news is that it's calculated at 14%.

Good news, even if viewfinder is bought as seperate item, if it is intended to be used with this camera and is attached to camera at time of shipping then it is charged at 4.9%, the same rate as camera.

When camera is shipped in to the UK it is the courier, eg parcelforce, fed ex, that looks at the box or paperwork and decides what customs code to give it. So with a red camera unless there is a guide to which code should apply on the box or paperwork then there is a very good chance they will take the safe option of classifying it as a camcorder which is 12%.

I have used travelex before for overseas payments, ring them up, ask to set up a business transfer account, they will need copies of your id sent to them.
They don't charge a fee but will give you a little less on the exchange rate than what you see on xe.com. Much more competitive than any bank or credit card. I'm sure there are others that are equally as good.

[Nick Shaw]

Good news, even if viewfinder is bought as seperate item, if it is intended to be used with this camera and is attached to camera at time of shipping then it is charged at 4.9%, the same rate as camera.

Do you think that means it has to be physically attached to the camera during shipping (not sensible or even possible I suspect) or just boxed with it?

[Kevin Halverson]

The company that I work for exports high end hi fi equipment all the time. Our products are modular (like the RED) and the verbiage we use in the accompanying paper work (SLI and Commercial Invoice) is "accessory for above". This keeps duties for the options and accessories at the same rate as the base product. This is pretty standard commercial practice and something that any customs broker will be very familiar with. I would suggest that anyone planning on purchasing the RED speak with a customs broker first and let them earn their fee and hopefully reduce the associated duties to the lowest possible rate.

[Columbus]

Do you think that means it has to be physically attached to the camera during shipping (not sensible or even possible I suspect) or just boxed with it?
Just checked with customs again, viewfinder comes under camera accessories
code 9006 9100 90 which is 3.7%. Therefore everything else for red should comes under same code. Maybe the next time I ring it will come under a different code, along as the percentage keeps getting lower i don't mind.

[Fergus Meiklejohn]

Man am ignoramous hastam..
I didn't know we could pay less than VAT! Bonus! Or am I misunderstanding? Is this Import Duty in addition to the 17.5% VAT tax?

[Stephen Williams]

Man am ignoramous hastam..
I didn't know we could pay less than VAT! Bonus! Or am I misunderstanding? Is this Import Duty in addition to the 17.5% VAT tax?

Hi,

Import Duty plus 17.5% VAT:wink:

Stephen

[Fergus Meiklejohn]

thanks stephen..

customs charges maaaaaan........:ranting2:

would it be useful to make sure RED spec the shipment using the right language: "professional camera plus accessories" or whatever is right?

[Stephen Williams]

thanks stephen..

customs charges maaaaaan........:ranting2:

would it be useful to make sure RED spec the shipment using the right language: "professional camera plus accessories" or whatever is right?

Hi Fergus,

Idealy RED will quote the correct customs code, then there is a 95% chance the customs will accept it, so you will pay the correct amount!

Stephen

[PaulClements]

Well Rory's first, we'll let him do the all the arguing :)

[Fergus Meiklejohn]

yeah he can keep them occupied while we slip though

[Michael Brennan]

I would consider going to the states and checking out the camera. Get a free lesson from the guys who made it. Turn it on to make sure it works!

Bring it back to the UK as checked baggage and declare all of it and anything else you bought in the USA at customs. Dont try and hide anything.
Have a list of what you think particular duty rates are but don't be argumentative if they dont agree.
Make sure you have a invoice copy of what you paid not photocopies.
You may need to consider buying a flight case so it can be configured for lowest duty.

I have found that the custom guys at LHR can be quite reasonable about things and err on the side of saftey if they are unsure about which duty to charge. They need to understand that it is a new model and you have to hand deliver it asap to an important movie.

I dont think there are quotas for cameras (where duty rate is low for first X million £ worth of imports) like there is for persian rugs :)


One of the reasons Red is cheaper than other cameras is that there are no distributorships and local resellers to do all of this for you and who charge you for it.

Flights from USA work on piece rate for excess baggage so stuff as much as you can up to the weight limit in each case.

If you look sweaty or nervous they will go for you and search all of your baggage and have been known to ask for reciepts for anything that looks new, from your watch to your ipod. And if you can't prove you bought your ipod in Europe they will charge you duty!



Mike Brennan