nikon to pl

[Poi Boy]

How hard/easy is it going to be to change from pl to nikon or vice versa ?
Aloha
-A

[Roberto B]

good question..

[Damien Molineaux]

yes..

hey, ya'll in Vegas, did you here that question ?

Salut,
Damien

[Matthew Verkler]

How hard/easy is it going to be to change from pl to nikon or vice versa ?
Aloha
-A

I asked that question in Vegas. The response I got was that it's not done yet so it's hard to say, but it would be the kind of thing that you wouldn't do on set, but you might do it at the end of the day for the next day's shoot.

I also asked what level of skill and tools would be required, but again, the Nikon adapter isn't done (not sure on how far they are), so it's too early to comment.

I've been building a killer Nikon set (thanks for the tips, Evin!), but also want to use Red zoom when it's available, and perhaps a PL prime set, so this issue was very important to me as well. Of course everything changed with NAB, with the 18-50 Red Zoom and the Red Primes. The most significant thing for me was that the 18-50 Red Zoom should be ready by the time I can get my Red One (est. August); I was assuming I wouldn't get the 18-85 until the end of the year. The Red Primes might not be available until the end of the year.

To sum up, don't expect to be going back and forth between Nikon and PL while shooting, as far as we know right now. Makes sense to me from a tolerance standpoint.

Let me also say that the fact Red is where it is right now is nothing short of miraculous, and that the whole Red Team is far exceeding any reasonable expectations. They will get these things figured out much faster than we have a right to hope for. Red is permeated with good Karma! And I'm sending as much good vibes their way as I can. Selfishly, of course, hehe.

[martinnoweck]

Hi,

has anyone experience on rehousing Still lenses?

Martin

[Stephen Williams]

Hi,

has anyone experience on rehousing Still lenses?

Martin

Hi,

P+S technic, Vandiemen.TV & Optex. Expect to spend $2000-10,000 per prime lens.

Stephen

[Stephen Williams]

I asked that question in Vegas. The response I got was that it's not done yet so it's hard to say, but it would be the kind of thing that you wouldn't do on set, but you might do it at the end of the day for the next day's shoot.

I also asked what level of skill and tools would be required, but again, the Nikon adapter isn't done (not sure on how far they are), so it's too early to comment.



Hi,

I am very interested to hear that!

I remember several month's ago saying it would not be an easy DIY task to do properly due to the tolerance required. There was talk of an intermediate adapter, which I thought was a bad idear as there would be 2 extra surfaces to keep clean.

Stephen

[Martin Drew]

P+S technic, Vandiemen.TV & Optex.

No Optex anymore unfortunately. They went bust just before Christmas a year ago.

M

[Brook Willard]

At the very minimum... it will require a clean environment, a steady hand, a talented AC and collimation/back focus tools. Whether it will be achievable by the user or whether it will require in-house service remains to be seen... though I expect the former.

Soon enough.

[Poi Boy]

I'm really hoping it is user achievable. Since I can't afford the red primes right now I'm planning to start out using Nikkors. I'd really like the zoom, but if I can't easily interchange it on a shoot , I have a difficult decision. Maybe I'll start with the nikkors only and by the time my second camera is ready I'll be able to afford the primes and the zoom. My wife is going to kill me !
Aloha
-A

[Brook Willard]

I expect it will be user achievable. Hell, there may even be official word on it that I'm just not aware of.

[Don King]

I'm really hoping it is user achievable. Since I can't afford the red primes right now I'm planning to start out using Nikkors. I'd really like the zoom, but if I can't easily interchange it on a shoot , I have a difficult decision. Maybe I'll start with the nikkors only and by the time my second camera is ready I'll be able to afford the primes and the zoom. My wife is going to kill me !
Aloha
-A

It's interesting how it's easy to find here other people with the same needs. 5 minutes ago it was another one, now it's you.

Same case. Exactly the same.

[Stephen Williams]

I'm really hoping it is user achievable. Since I can't afford the red primes right now I'm planning to start out using Nikkors. I'd really like the zoom, but if I can't easily interchange it on a shoot , I have a difficult decision. Maybe I'll start with the nikkors only and by the time my second camera is ready I'll be able to afford the primes and the zoom. My wife is going to kill me !
Aloha
-A

Hi,

Pl to Nikon will not be a problem as the Nikon's are not accurately collimated in the first place. You will need to rely on eye focusing or the magic assist.

However Nikon to PL needs more expertise IMHO.

Stephen

[martinnoweck]

Hi Poi Boy,

mine is already wondering about where all the still lenses in our flat suddently came from ...

Martin

[Michael Schrengohst]

I'm really hoping it is user achievable. Since I can't afford the red primes right now I'm planning to start out using Nikkors. I'd really like the zoom, but if I can't easily interchange it on a shoot , I have a difficult decision. Maybe I'll start with the nikkors only and by the time my second camera is ready I'll be able to afford the primes and the zoom. My wife is going to kill me !
Aloha
-A

My wife could have gone to NAB and watched the Peter Jackson RED presentation and gone over and seen the footage on the plasma screens over at the Apple booth and she would say "That looks nice". My wife has endured 13 years of video geekdom. We celebrate our 12th on April 22. Don't let me forget!

[Martin Drew]

Congrats for the 22nd Red Guy.

[Joel Kaye]

It's pretty clear from Ted's freshdv interview that changing mounts will be a fairly entailed operation. I think you're basically going to pick a mount and stick with it when the rubber hits the road.

[Poi Boy]

I think you are right about that Joelnet. If one had the collimating equipment how hard would it be to learn...can't be that hard. Anybody know ?
Aloha
-A

[steevo435]

I think you are right about that Joelnet. If one had the collimating equipment how hard would it be to learn...can't be that hard. Anybody know ?
Aloha
-A

In the film world, this requires a precision depth gauge (minimum .01mm increments) and a way to check lens centering and parallax (making sure what is seen in the eyepiece is what goes on the sensor).
By no means is it rocket science, but requires shims, tools, touch, and a lot of patience.
A proper design would include guide pins to help align the different mounts to get the centering and parallax close (unlike an Aaton XTR!), but you may have to shim a few hundredths of a mm to get depth correct.

[Poi Boy]

Thanks Steevo.
-A

[Stephen Williams]

Hi,

Problem with a depth gauge is that it may damage the sensor! So I guess an autocollimator is required. Not cheap.

Stephen

[Andrew M.]

In the film world, this requires a precision depth gauge (minimum .01mm increments) and a way to check lens centering and parallax (making sure what is seen in the eyepiece is what goes on the sensor).
By no means is it rocket science, but requires shims, tools, touch, and a lot of patience.
A proper design would include guide pins to help align the different mounts to get the centering and parallax close (unlike an Aaton XTR!), but you may have to shim a few hundredths of a mm to get depth correct.

I played with back focus on 65mm lenses and charts.
http://www.reduser.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=414&d=1176398283

The black marks on the micrometer left lower corner is .01mm (10 micrometers) mark.
+-5 and you are loosing back focus substantially. So forget about .001 mm shims. .005 will be more appropriate. Are there any?

[Finner]

I have always been very skeptical of the mount change being an easy thing but at NAB I went through the process with Stuart and it looks not that bad. Unlike a film camera mount change you are not just swaping the mounts themselves like you would with a film camera. The mounts are pre attached to a round block system in the factory and you do not remove the mount from the block. Each block has a fairly large flat area that aligns with the body and the depth is set by the size of this block. Thus with not actually removing the mount itself there is no need for shims and a very small chance of calibration issues. I hope I am explaining this in a way that makes sense but from what I saw if a presise person takes their time it should be less then a 15 minute process in a very clean controlled environment. I would not want to do it on set or in a camera truck but it really shouldnt be that hard to do with some simple tools and isopropanal alcohol to make sure the flat portion of the camera and the back side of the mount block are completely clean.

I also mentioned to Stuart that a small tool pack with a very accurate torque wrench with precise guide lines (eg: tighten mount screws to __lbs per square inch) would be a great help.

[Stephen Williams]

I played with back focus on 65mm lenses and charts.
http://www.reduser.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=414&d=1176398283

The black marks on the micrometer left lower corner is .01mm (10 micrometers) mark.
+-5 and you are loosing back focus substantially. So forget about .001 mm shims. .005 will be more appropriate. Are there any?

Hi,

Sure Panavision spec is +/- 0.002! Quite a challenge to achieve, how much you tighten screws makes a big effect at this level!

When I have tried to shim lens mounts myself, I could only get within 0.005 regardless of how much time I spent!

Stephen

[Poi Boy]

Finner, that is very encouraging, thanks.
Aloha
-A

[steevo435]

Hi,

Sure Panavision spec is +/- 0.002! Quite a challenge to achieve, how much you tighten screws makes a big effect at this level!

When I have tried to shim lens mounts myself, I could only get within 0.005 regardless of how much time I spent!

Stephen
Keep in mind that Panavision uses the English system, not metric. so .002" equals roughly .05mm.
Also, <When I have tried to shim lens mounts myself, I could only get within 0.005 regardless of how much time I spent!> is why I included "touch" and "patience" in my formula for achieving proper FFD.

[Mike Prevette]

Don't forget that swapping between PL and nikor will be mentally tough, due the Nikon's focus direction being opposite everyone else's.

_mike

[steevo435]

The black marks on the micrometer left lower corner is .01mm (10 micrometers) mark.
+-5 and you are loosing back focus substantially. So forget about .001 mm shims. .005 will be more appropriate. Are there any?

Hey Andrew-
I'm familiar with that gauge, and yes .01mm increments are quite noticeable on the projector. The smallest shim stock I've used is .0134mm, which if you ever handle, is quite thin....roughly half the width of a human hair. I'd be happy to send you a sample if you like. The trick is getting the right combination of shims, lenses are designed to be "short" and must be shimmed...hell, the Canon 7-63 (for S16) came with a shim set, right down to .0134mm. Just so the tech that set that particular lens up could get the backfocus set perfectly according to his/hers collimating equipment.
Talking about precise shit, Aaton requires the Flange to Focal Depth of the XTR Prod to be -.007mm to .017mm (7 microns to -17 microns!).....the human hair is roughly 40 microns in width.