Adobe support...

[Jannard]

Within a week, RED R3D files will open natively in CS3 Premiere Pro and After Effects.

Jim

[mikeburton]

Wow!!! So Adobe will have a more streamlined workflow than Apple at that point? I hope apple steps up to the plate in this manner as well!

[Paul Hazlett]

you are the number one BOMB dropper aren't you !!!!

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

Within a week, RED R3D files will open natively in CS3 Premiere Pro and After Effects.

Jim


I love you man.

(Don't get me wrong :))

"... and After Effects" ?

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.

:) :) :)

[Jason Ramsey]

Noice...

[Daniel Gourley]

Jim...Do you ever sleep?

[Álex Montoya]

That's amazing news.

[Álex Montoya]

That includes the PC version of this adobe soft, right?

[Jean Wallez]

My initial plan was to buy tomorow an Apple and a tree and a forest.
Go figure...

[Paul Hazlett]

Ok who is working the Group buy for Adobe premier?

[Raul Gonzo]

i just pooped myself :blink:

[Steve Sherrick]

Would this workflow be possible then.

1. Cut with Proxies in FCP
2. Export XML to AE via Automatic Duck
3. Color Correct and effects work in AE
4. Relink to R3D files for final mastering in AE
5. Strike dubs/versions from 4K master

[Brian Harbauer]

Before you know it, people will forget who Chuck Norris is in the shadow of Jim Jannard.

[Luca Immesi]

Also Premiere and AE for mac will open R3D files natively?
Thanks.

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

Would this workflow be possible then.

1. Cut with Proxies in FCP
2. Export XML to AE via Automatic Duck
3. Color Correct and effects work in AE
4. Relink to R3D files for final mastering in AE
5. Strike dubs/versions from 4K master


I believe the proxies will work in Premiere too. :)

[Wayne D]

That includes the PC version of this adobe soft, right?

second that request

[Álex Montoya]

1. edit proxies on premiere
2. import project in ae, color correct and do effects shots
3. render final master in 4K TIFFS

[Pawel Achtel]

Within a week, RED R3D files will open natively in CS3 Premiere Pro and After Effects.

Jim

Nice one.

[Thor Wixom]

Please clarify...

Will this be fully functional across both the Apple and Windows platforms?

I don't want to be too excited until I know for sure...

-Thor

[Christian Edwards]

Within a week, RED R3D files will open natively in CS3 Premiere Pro and After Effects.

Jim

:w00t:....and so it begins...

[Steve Sherrick]

1. edit proxies on premiere
2. import project in ae, color correct and do effects shots
3. render final master in 4K TIFFS

I don't use Premiere to edit, so I was wondering if this workflow could work with FCP. But I may have to take another look at Premiere anyway. It's been a while since I last used it.

[Álex Montoya]

I work with the three of them, but Premiere was my first love and I still prefer it.

[Casey Green]

Great news! (Hi Karl S.!) :)

[Rob Lohman]

Yes, Mac & Win.

I don't see why that workflow with editing on FCP & finishing on AE shouldn't work

[Thor Wixom]

The Mac version of Premiere Pro has a feature that mimics the hotkeys and workflow of FCP.

Not sure... but does the Mac version of Premiere Pro allow 4k editing? Is Quicktime capable of handling 4k?

-Thor

[Álex Montoya]

Yes, Mac & Win.


That's VERY big.

[Rob Lohman]

QuickTime can more or less handle 4K. Premiere on Mac can do so too.

[Thor Wixom]

Yes, Mac & Win.

I don't see why that workflow with editing on FCP & finishing on AE shouldn't work

Good news, Rob.

Love your tag, by the way!

-Thor

[Luca Immesi]

Yes, Mac & Win.

I don't see why that workflow with editing on FCP & finishing on AE shouldn't work

Do you mean premiere for mac will open original R3D files (I mean not proxies)?
Incredible...and fcp?

[Steve Sherrick]

Does anyone know if Premiere supports the AJA Kona 3 on Mac? Not saying I'm ready to jump ship just yet, but my curiosity is peaked a bit.

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

Great, great, great. :)

I think that RED really Begins now.

All that is missing is a little lady to warm the RED Knight's heart.

:love:

[laguun]

Within a week, RED R3D files will open natively in CS3 Premiere Pro and After Effects.

Jim

rock´n´roll.

2 questions:
win/osx?
4K12bit?

[laguun]

Yes, Mac & Win.

I don't see why that workflow with editing on FCP & finishing on AE shouldn't work

ha, posts were to fast.

excellent, simply excellent.
i know over 5 postproductions running right now who will love their next weeks.

[Greg M]

i just pooped myself :blink:

LOL...funny!

[Rob Lohman]

Do you mean premiere for mac will open original R3D files (I mean not proxies)?
Incredible...and fcp?

Premiere & AE (CS3) will load native R3D at up to 4K on both Mac & Win. We have nothing new to report for FCP or CS4 (I'll pre-empt you guys there) at this point in time.

[Alex.Mitchell]

Maybe a dumb question, but how will the playback speed be on a Macbook Pro? How will we be able to adjust the debayer quality to do full speed playback?

[brandon herman]

Amazing!!!!!!!

[Martin Jäger]

!!!


no words

oh sh**!?!

NO!

- AGAIN!

aaaahhh!!

:blink:

[Luca Immesi]

Premiere & AE (CS3) will load native R3D at up to 4K on both Mac & Win. We have nothing new to report for FCP or CS4 (I'll pre-empt you guys there) at this point in time.

That is unbelievable! An editing software that takes R3D natively. I thought this could happen next year.

[laguun]

Premiere & AE (CS3) will load native R3D at up to 4K on both Mac & Win. We have nothing new to report for FCP or CS4 (I'll pre-empt you guys there) at this point in time.

online editing 4K sources in premiere pro - on win & osx.
excellent.

that should *slightly* change the workload from our discreets/avid/fcp here in the studio... i think 2 class 1 1080P monitors will move from one editing bay to another the next days here...

some question:
colordepth?
is there a decode-quality setting (as decode 1/4 low for editing, full for rendering etc?).

[Wayne D]

we are just starting to plan a couple of big projects and this nails RED for me.

[Kenn Christenson]

Premiere & AE (CS3) will load native R3D at up to 4K on both Mac & Win. We have nothing new to report for FCP or CS4 (I'll pre-empt you guys there) at this point in time.
Apple sure better get off their collective butts, or Adobe is likely to make inroads in Final Cut territory - not that there's anything wrong with that. I use FCP to edit and AE to finish - but would have no problem switching to Premiere.:biggrin:

[number6]

You... did all this... just for me (sniff)? I'm... I'm touched.

For now, I'm just a poor starving wannabe movie maker. But someday... someday... I'll pay you back... I swear.

[Tico Llaurador]

Wow... this is smashing news! SMASHING NEWS!!!

[Eren Ozkural]

Dear good lord, thank you Jim, thank you so much!

I have a thousand and one questions about this but i wont swamp your mind with questions that everyone will be asking a million times over anyway.

This is coming up next week, im going on holiday in 2 weeks, it's my birthday in early September and I (hopefully) get my RED soon after.

Life is good Mr. Jannard, life is good...

[laguun]

this makes a complex ballet with several stops and gos, turnarounds and in-between processes to a one-stop solution.

finally, we have *the* clear answer for so many confused customers.

[Eren Ozkural]

Shoot CF/HDD, load off onto editing setup, edit away!

3 steps.

[Rick Darge]

Time to buy Premiere.

Do we know yet if we can take the R3Ds and scale it down to a lower res to edit?

[Stefan Scherperel]

Best news I have heard all week. Up until now we were still trying to figure out our future workflow with Red, but this pretty much makes the decision for us. Of course this really depends on how this full support works, but I have high hopes for the adobe workflow.

[Evin Grant]

How much RAW image control will you have in Premier? (Color, exposure control, DRX)

[Stefan Scherperel]

One of my big questions as well, but seeing as how adobe seems to have a great grasp of RAW workflow, I have high hopes for this as well. Just imagine having full RAW control in a native timeline from within premiere. If possible, I can't imagine that I would want much more than that.

[Thor Wixom]

How much RAW image control will you have in Premier? (Color, exposure control, DRX)

Having worked with RAW in Premiere, and .R3D files in Redcine... I would say the two are comparable in terms the ability to control and manipulate the grading.

Add something like Magic Bullet, and the Premiere side becomes more powerful, IMHO.

-Thor

[David Wilson]

I leave my computer for a few hours and see what happens...

Thank you all who made these things come to pass.

Remarkable!!!

[Christian Edwards]

I love this community

[Paul Hazlett]

that Adobe rep better show up quick or the natives might storm Adobe HQ

[conrad gaunt]

Thats great news for windows, I thought it might take a little longer, so I bought a iMac today. Oh well, two eggs, two baskets is fine..

[Thor Wixom]

If you've worked with Lightroom, then you'll know that it only makes sense for Adobe to be a leader in the RAW image processing, especially considering they are working on Cinema DNG.

-Thor

[david farland]

Jim,

Thank you & well done

...Excellent work!!

[Cory Schulthies]

Finally a work flow that will work for me! Man the people at adobe were really tight lipped about this one..

Who did the coding, Adobe or RED?

[Adam Clark]

cheers!

[LawrenceDinkins]

Sony Vegas Pro is rumored to be working on 4K compatibility in their next version.
That makes me wonder: Is Sony secretly planning a 4K version of F35 in the near future?

[Mark L. Pederson]

Within a week, RED R3D files will open natively in CS3 Premiere Pro and After Effects.

Jim

Congrats Jim & Team Red!

I was crossing my fingers that you guys would nail this one to the wall.

MASSIVE!!!!

I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE the fact that people will get to rock Redcode Raw in AE BEFORE CS4 - when CS4 gets released heads will explode!!!

Seriously fantastic!!!

[Frank Weeks]

Wow...Great news and I just picked up CS3 for AE and PS.

Let the games begin.

[Bruce Allen]

Awesome news, thanks!

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[Steve White]

*Looks at thread's first post.*
*Looks at installed software CS3 Master Collection.*
*Jaw hits floor.*
*Gets ready to download *.r3d files from whomever will give 'em.*

[Zach Hilton]

Absolutely fabulous! Cannot wait! Thanks guys. Thank you very very much.


Does anyone know if Premiere supports the AJA Kona 3 on Mac? Not saying I'm ready to jump ship just yet, but my curiosity is peaked a bit.
Not the Kona 3 but the Xena 2k, which is hardware identical for the PC. IE...Kona 3 mac, Xena 2k pc...same functionality.

[MikeHedge]

thank you Jim.

Anyone from Adobe remember the early days of DVXuser?

We need someone like Jan from Panasonic..... who ever you are, you will be respected and you are needed and wanted. Please join the forum and give us some Adobe clues. Adobe I love you. RED I love you!!!

[Jim Geduldick]

Looks like I will come out of the shadows to say congrats on this one .
Time to wake up Apple.

[Michael Schrengohst]

Wow! I am working on some spots now and that would save a ton-o-time!
When - me wants!

[IAN SUN]

Does Premiere suffer from any of the 8 bit restrictions that FCP likes to spank us with?

[Jeff Kilgroe]

More incredible good news today. Whole new world of possibilities if we have full 4K finishing out of AE with direct editing from R3D in premiere. OMFG... :blink:

...As much as I like FCS2, I think Appled just got pwned.

[Steve Sherrick]

Again, I'm not ready to jump from my current editing platform, but I have to say, this is an interesting development. Just for kicks, I worked out what it would cost to upgrade to Production Premium. I already have After Effects CS3, so here is what it would cost.

$1,099 for the upgrade
$200 Discount for owning FCP
Total Investment - $899

If I can have a completely seamless 4K workflow on the Mac platform for $899, that is attractive. But it means learning Premiere. I already know Avid and FCP. At this point, I am open to all possibilities. I just want a solid workflow that allows access to metadata right from the editing/finishing tools at a price point that is affordable for a smaller studio. I want stability as well. Can't wait to see how this all pans out.

[Clint Johnson]

Does Premiere suffer from any of the 8 bit restrictions that FCP likes to spank us with?

It is possible to work with 16 bit images and process internally at up to 32 bits per channel.

Now let us imagine how far from realtime this would be if we were working with 4K 12 bit R3D files and processing them internally at 32 bits per channel?

Oh but Flying Spaghetti Monster I want to try.

I have Magic Bullet/Colorista and I want to see how those work here as well.

This news is soooooooo good.

[Peter Majtan]

Jim did mention that there are many more companies to announce support - count on Apple being one of them... The only problem (not for me) is the inability to grade 4K in Color (2K max) - ditto FCP. But I do all my work at 2K max - so that doesn't worry me too much... :)

[Cam Crowley]

WOW - nearly missed this news altogether.

I giggled like a school girl when I read the magic words "RED R3D files will open natively in After Effects"

I can not even begin to tell you how happy this makes me - I'm actually feeling woozy and think I might pass out from all the opportunities this represents.

You guys seriously ROCK

Many Thanks

Cam

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Yeah, I know Apple will come through, we've been told about R3D support in Color some time ago. And that obviously will lead to more. Apple is a bit behind with all their pro apps these days, they're totally slacking with Blu-Ray support and other things, not just supporting RED. I'm pretty sure that Apple will update and really come out swinging with a lot of good stuff via FCS3 or whatever. They're just being a bit slow about it, typical Apple.

And 2K finishing is great and makes good sense for the RED One and most projects. Provided that the high quality 2K can be derived from the full 4K R3Ds at render time without any of this rendering from proxy versions or L&T into ProRes conversion business. FCS will get there, of that I have no doubt.

Either way, I'm fine with Adobe CS3 support. Ecstatic, actually. I have the full CS3 suite for both PC & Mac, so I'm ready to roll. Nice to know that the PCs will get to do more than just run REDCINE within the next week or so!

[Thor Wixom]

Again, I'm not ready to jump from my current editing platform, but I have to say, this is an interesting development. Just for kicks, I worked out what it would cost to upgrade to Production Premium. I already have After Effects CS3, so here is what it would cost.

$1,099 for the upgrade
$200 Discount for owning FCP
Total Investment - $899

If I can have a completely seamless 4K workflow on the Mac platform for $899, that is attractive. But it means learning Premiere. I already know Avid and FCP. At this point, I am open to all possibilities. I just want a solid workflow that allows access to metadata right from the editing/finishing tools at a price point that is affordable for a smaller studio. I want stability as well. Can't wait to see how this all pans out.

Premiere Pro has an FCP "mode" where most of the shorcuts, hotkeys, etc. are the same.

Here is some good info about Premiere CS3 for FCP users:

http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/compare/

Also, check the whitepaper for Leopard OS:

http://www.adobe.com/support/products/pdfs/leopardsupport.pdf

-Thor

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Now, would I be assuming too much to think Premiere and After Effects will let us edit and work from lower-quality versions? I guess I'm asking if it will do a partial debayer to generate half or quarter res "proxies" on the fly like QuickTime can?

[Steve Freebairn]

Does anyone know if Premiere supports the AJA Kona 3 on Mac? Not saying I'm ready to jump ship just yet, but my curiosity is peaked a bit.

Yes it does, It also supports Xena (which is a kona) on the PC side of things

[Steve Freebairn]

Does Premiere suffer from any of the 8 bit restrictions that FCP likes to spank us with?

I'll let the really smart people answer you with specifics, but no, nothing close to 8 bit, way more.

[Steve_Oakley]

prem pro doesn't have a hard frame size limit like FCP does ( 4096X4096 ) so support was straight forwards. it also had deep color support if *you* enable it.

the FCP shortcuts is a good starting place, but they are a few short. i have a preset with many more key strokes implemented. I'll put a link up. it was publicly available via a online news letter a few months ago.

Steve Oakley

[Steve Freebairn]

Now, would I be assuming too much to think Premiere and After Effects will let us edit and work from lower-quality versions? I guess I'm asking if it will do a partial debayer to generate half or quarter res "proxies" on the fly like QuickTime can?

My guess would be that you'll be able to select "automatic, High or Low" like you can for current CS3 timelines (right beneath the monitor).

I hope there is a quick debayer and a quality setting, so you could do an ultra quick debayer of 1k for super speedy editing.

[Thor Wixom]

It's beginning to sink in how much the Adobe plug-in is going to streamline the DIT and Data Manager's jobs!

Yes!!!!!!!!!!

Now I just hope it will work on a fast laptop.

-Thor

[killfilm]

JIM, awesome business move my friend, just plain f@#$%n awesome!

[Steve Freebairn]

prem pro doesn't have a hard frame size limit like FCP does ( 4096X4096 ) so support was straight forwards. it also had deep color support if *you* enable it.

the FCP shortcuts is a good starting place, but they are a few short. i have a preset with many more key strokes implemented. I'll put a link up. it was publicly available via a online news letter a few months ago.

Steve Oakley


Actually, CS3 does have a hard limit, of 4096. Open CS3, and try doing 4608x1920 the new 4.5k mode and you'll get a warning that it has to be under 4096. I think that this will probably change for the next one coming out, but only time will tell.

[Steve Sherrick]

Getting checkbook ready.....

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Sorry to branch off on a tangent, but is there any good source for Premiere CS3 tutorials online? It's looking like I might need to brush up a bit, I don't ever edit with Premiere and I'd prefer to build on my rudimentary foundation and avoid the keyboard shortcuts that mimic FCP. I guess there's a tutorial DVD that comes with CS3, could check that out. Heh.

[Steve Freebairn]

I'm really excited that we can open our Premiere timelines with R3d files in Ae without anything special. Post just got so much easier for several of my projects. I can't even believe how much easier this will be for Ae work.

Way smart move Red, way to go.

[Rob Lohman]

Does Premiere suffer from any of the 8 bit restrictions that FCP likes to spank us with?

Neither program has an 8-bit restriction (in the right mode, which is Y'CbCr for FCP).

[Zach Hilton]

Disregard this post. :)

[Steve Sherrick]

So, edit in Premiere hopefully with adjustable debayering/quality settings.

Open in After Effects

Color Correct using Magic Bullet Colorista, Looks, AE Levels, Color Finesse, etc.

Apply other effects as needed

Render a master sequence (image sequence for easy updating)

Make other versions from this master.

Done.

Do I have that right?

[Rob Lohman]

Now let us imagine how far from realtime this would be if we were working with 4K 12 bit R3D files and processing them internally at 32 bits per channel?

Doesn't really matter, we're 32-bit in REDCODE anyway. Of course you wouldn't be working in 4K (or 32-bit) until final render. Unless you enjoy slow processing :usd:

[Rob Lohman]

prem pro doesn't have a hard frame size limit like FCP does ( 4096X4096 )

That is incorrect. Prem is actually hard limited to 4096 x 4096 (not 100% sure on the actual numbers) and FCP is 4000 x 4000 (again not sure on actual numbers, I do not FCP does not go to 4096 horizontal).

[Steve Sherrick]

Rob, what do you expect for stability right out of the gate? Will there be some growing pains, or are we looking at a pretty solid go at it right away?

[Rob Lohman]

The plugin for release next week will be an alpha / beta. While it should be quite solid (since all software is using the same layer underneath) it is a new product on a new platform (for us). So please test it and provide feedback so we can fix things.

We're also not done yet feature wise (there will be many and frequent updates to the Adobe integration) so we'll need to grow in that area too.

But we're extremely excited to bring this new workflow to our customers. We understand that it's been a while coming and we appreciate the patience.

It's going to be an incredible year and wait till you find out what's in store for next year :)

[Jay A. Kelley]

Just to ask some things:

1: Is Premiere / AE opening the r3d file directly, or making a proxy?
2: If it's opening the R3d file directly, what resolution is it opening it in? Do we decide this in the presets before opening the project?
3: How is playback right now? Is it realtime? What kind of system are you testing on, and what have you seen results wise.
4: What about sound? Will that be supported in premiere and AE? If so how many tracks?
5: what colorspace is the R3D file operating in? Is it 32bit color or 16bit?
6: How is this file working with playback to other capture cards? In other words, will we be able to play this back on an external monitor?
7: What about plug ins such as Color Finesse? Has this been tested? Will it work?

I realize there may not be answers to ALL these questions, but just tell me what you can.

Jay

[Darren Orange]

Doesn't really matter, we're 32-bit in REDCODE anyway. Of course you wouldn't be working in 4K (or 32-bit) until final render. Unless you enjoy slow processing :usd:

Slow...how about Discrete Edit getting native R3D support.....a frame every 2 minutes at 4K.....maybe :gun: that's what I call fast. Of course this is assuming you run it on an awesome dual Pentium II machine at 515mhz each, now that was fast!

[Cory Schulthies]

So I was talking with a fellow REDUSER, Kinobarin, and he brought up something I hadn't thought of:

When we edit 4.5k at 2.40 it's 4608x1920.

Premiere can't handle bigger than 4096...right now.

So will this be patched, or will this just be a limit we will have to deal with until cs4?

[Steve Sherrick]

I would expect by next year we will see all of the major players (Avid, FCP, Premiere, Vegas) with native R3D support with a range of metadata support. I would also expect that the ambitious 3rd party programmers will come up with all kinds of useful tools for logging, transcoding, and distributing Red footage.

Patience is a virtue I suppose. Perhaps we are about to see the big payoff.

[Rob Lohman]

This time in the right thread huh Jay ;)


1: Is Premiere / AE opening the r3d file directly, or making a proxy?

Direct, otherwise it wouldn't be much of a native workflow ;)


2: If it's opening the R3d file directly, what resolution is it opening it in? Do we decide this in the presets before opening the project?

You get to decide


3: How is playback right now? Is it realtime? What kind of system are you testing on, and what have you seen results wise.

As always we'd like things to be faster. We'll be working hard on that this year. It should perform about the same as the other stuff.


4: What about sound? Will that be supported in premiere and AE? If so how many tracks?

That might not make it in for next week, but we'll have to see. If it's not in it will probably be out the week after.


5: what colorspace is the R3D file operating in? Is it 32bit color or 16bit?

That's more pixel type / bit depth. The answer is 8 & 32.


6: How is this file working with playback to other capture cards? In other words, will we be able to play this back on an external monitor?

Don't have an answer on that yet


7: What about plug ins such as Color Finesse? Has this been tested? Will it work?

Not tested, should work I'd imagine.


I realize there may not be answers to ALL these questions, but just tell me what you can.

It's a new workflow for us. We need to learn it as well (we've been busy getting it to you as quickly as possible). More answers next week when it will be out.

As stated above we'll be working hard on adding features and sending you new updates, just like our other software & firmware.

HTH,

[Jay A. Kelley]

Thanks Rob...

Yeah, these two threads have been moving so fast I did not realize which one I posted in!

Jay

[Steve Freebairn]

Jay, you still wanting to use Avid instead of Adobe? I'm guessing that the number of copies of the Master Collection being sold is going to increase quite a bit.

[Cory Schulthies]

You get to decide




(working Resolutions)

So, can we choose a working resolution, then switch to a higher resolution for export?

[Jay A. Kelley]

I realize there's a lot flying around right now, and emotions are high, but I do believe that Avid is a better editor in terms of over all core and design.

But...

Adobe is the one that really let's people inside it's software to allow 3rd parties (In this case RED) make the editor what they want it to be.

This is a big deal, and it things keep going like this, then Premiere may be the one editor that rules them all.

Jay

[jbeale]

I used Adobe Premiere for some years, versions 5 & 6, obviously that was many years ago... I was never really happy with it and when I switched to Vegas around 2003 I never looked back. I gather Premiere has improved in the meantime...

[David Wilson]

I think significantly...

[Darren Orange]

I like Adobe, I started with it and have kept up on it ever since. I like Avid for interface and speed but Final Cut Pro for over all use and flexibility. It will be nice to see R3D's being used in Adobe, it will certainly open it up to the masses, and help schools be able to teach and use RED! I think the ability to teach a native workflow with low overhead is huge.

[Thor Wixom]

I gather Premiere has improved in the meantime...

Funny you should ask...

http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/compare/

-Thor

[Bruce Allen]

I used Adobe Premiere for some years, versions 5 & 6, obviously that was many years ago... I was never really happy with it and when I switched to Vegas around 2003 I never looked back. I gather Premiere has improved in the meantime...

It has. Premiere 6 sucked ass. I cut quite a bit on it (relatively complex with many layers, lots of sound design, CC, etc). Once things got heavy it would crash a lot. And by heavy I mean "10 minute student film" ;) But that "export to After Effects" feature was worth the trouble...

Premiere Pro was a big rewrite and has been a LOT more solid. Getting close to Avid, IMHO. Still lacks some features filmmakers need. OMF exports were not as rock solid as Avid, collaboration not as good, trim tool & feature set a step behind, etc. Definitely becoming competitive with FCP as a low-budget finishing tool - general quality of filters, scaling, etc seemed decent. It can also be pretty snappy even on a low-specced system, which is a nice change.

This RED news is great though.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[Jeff Kilgroe]

"Premiere 6 sucked ass"

That's an understatement, to say the least. I quit using Premiere with 6.0, couldn't take it. Like jbeale, I switched to Vegas, then I switched to FCP for using the HVX200 and Varicam. I took a peek at Premiere Pro 1.0 at some point way back when it was first released, and gagged, so I shelved it and haven't looked at Premiere since. I keep getting told that it has really improved and it's really great. I believe it, I just haven't actually looked for myself... It seems that now I have a good reason to do so.

[Steve Freebairn]

"Premiere 6 sucked ass"

That's an understatement, to say the least. I quit using Premiere with 6.0, couldn't take it. Like jbeale, I switched to Vegas, then I switched to FCP for using the HVX200 and Varicam. I took a peek at Premiere Pro 1.0 at some point way back when it was first released, and gagged, so I shelved it and haven't looked at Premiere since. I keep getting told that it has really improved and it's really great. I believe it, I just haven't actually looked for myself... It seems that now I have a good reason to do so.

You do have good reason to look at it. The nice thing is, if you don't own it already as part of a collection, that there is the 30 day tryout that you can download from their site.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I've got it -- got the CS3 premium suite whatever with everything. I just need to install it.... It's like the one Adobe App I never install and use.

[RivaiC]

I've got it -- got the CS3 premium suite whatever with everything. I just need to install it.... It's like the one Adobe App I never install and use.

Mind if you can let me know how it performs. I have never be a fan of Premiere as well. I'm excited because it can integrated inside After Effects soon. But if it really improves significantly, i dont mind to take a further look.

[MikeHedge]

so Cineform people????? 1Beyond people?????

please give us some posts with perfect systems to get. I'm looking for a laptop and a desktop. anyone from OffHollywood? Skulltrail???

[Steve Freebairn]

so Cineform people????? 1Beyond people?????

please give us some posts with perfect systems to get. I'm looking for a laptop and a desktop. anyone from OffHollywood? Skulltrail???

If you can wait a week, then people will be able to tell you exactly how things perform. Obviously the faster the better, but with Intel's next chips coming out in Q3, I'd say that Nehalem will be your best bet, so get a fast system now (quad core to hold you off), then in 2 months, get a blazing system. Skulltrail in 2 months will be 40 percent faster than one now.

[Harva Raj]

Does this mean that we can cut R3d (Premiere Pro) in mac PPC?

[Steve Sherrick]

Up until now, no PPC support has been offered for any RED software, including plugins. So, I would doubt it. Rob?

[Salem Kapic]

Within a week, RED R3D files will open natively in CS3 Premiere Pro and After Effects.

Jim

Fantastic!

[A. Bastaki]

before i get too excited.. here are some important questions.

1. r3d raw white balance, temperature adjustment in premiere. will i be able to edit those like i do with red cine? raw temperature adjustment is crucial.

2. scaling, x/y offsets. will that be available in premiere.

3. exporting from premiere/after effects. will the quality of the video be as good as something that gets out of redcine?

4. can i do the (1/4 high) playback in premiere just like that thing in redcine?

5. should i adjust the curves (in the 32 bit mode of course), can i still do the realtime playback in premiere like i could in redcine?

i got a factory standard video card, 9 gigs ram, 2x3.0 quads macpro. win xp 64bit.

[Steve Sherrick]

before i get too excited.. here are some important questions.

1. r3d raw white balance, temperature adjustment in premiere. will i be able to edit those like i do with red cine? raw temperature adjustment is crucial.

2. scaling, x/y offsets. will that be available in premiere.

3. exporting from premiere/after effects. will the quality of the video be as good as something that gets out of redcine?

4. can i do the (1/4 high) playback in premiere just like that thing in redcine?

5. should i adjust the curves, can i still do the realtime playback like i could in redcine?

3. If it works the way I think it's going to, then you will be sending metadata from Premiere to After Effects and then After Effects references the original R3D file, so theoretically quality should not be an issue, especially if After Effects is able to use full debayer quality.

[Stephen Gentle]

At last! Native r3d in After Effects is something I've been dreaming of for a very long time...


It has. Premiere 6 sucked ass. I cut quite a bit on it (relatively complex with many layers, lots of sound design, CC, etc). Once things got heavy it would crash a lot. And by heavy I mean "10 minute student film" ;)

I used 6.5 for a year or two - it was quite incredible just how unstable it was... I upgraded to CS3 just last year...

[david farland]

Be soooo nice for memory (>3.2G) etc when CS4 (64bit) is released but I hear that's not till end of year atleast.
I expect (hope) the Red Premiere code will be 64bit.

D

[Gian Joon]

Crazy kiya re..................

[Elizabeth Lowrey]

I used Adobe Premiere for some years, versions 5 & 6, obviously that was many years ago... I was never really happy with it and when I switched to Vegas around 2003 I never looked back. I gather Premiere has improved in the meantime...

Ditto. That's almost exactly my story. Really disliked Premiere 6. Couldn't believe how great Vegas was when I got it. Would still like to remain with Vegas if at all possible, but I'll be observing the Adobe developments with interest until I get my camera (hopefully by fall).

[Luca Immesi]

I don't use premiere since there was the mac version years ago. Now that premiere is supported again on mac I thought to give it a try for the compatibility with AE but at the end I didn' t install. Now everything change. Another things that I like a lot is this workflow will be cross platforms. Same project on pc and mac.

[Gian Joon]

I am planning to buy a PC system asap. Need advice on processors and graphics card. Thanks.

[A. Bastaki]

More Questions:

1. r3d raw white balance, temperature adjustment in premiere. will i be able to edit those like i do with red cine? raw temperature adjustment is crucial.

2. scaling, x/y offsets. will that be available in premiere.

3. exporting from premiere/after effects. will the quality of the video be as good as something that gets out of redcine?

4. can i do the (1/4 high) playback in premiere just like that thing in redcine?

5. should i adjust the curves, can i still do the realtime playback like i could in redcine?


3. If it works the way I think it's going to, then you will be sending metadata from Premiere to After Effects and then After Effects references the original R3D file, so theoretically quality should not be an issue, especially if After Effects is able to use full debayer quality.

I'd still like to see that temperature adjustment function. rather than color correcting.

What would be cool, is if there was a raw proccessing import thing... like when you import a raw image into photoshop, you get that raw image viewer/tweaker.

[Mark L. Pederson]

so Cineform people????? 1Beyond people?????

please give us some posts with perfect systems to get. I'm looking for a laptop and a desktop. anyone from OffHollywood? Skulltrail???

A couple big surprises at IBC (6 weeks away) .... buy what you need to use NOW ... but you will have exciting new options for I/O cards sooooooo soon.

There is something which I think is a game-changing for the DIY guys on the MAC side - coming from a company nobody is paying attention to at the moment - can't tell you any more than that except I'll give you a little clue - that companies stock was below $12 a share at close yesterday - a steal at that price.

Skulltrail is a short-term, stop gap. If you have the business NOW, skulltrail is the way to go - we LOVE ours - it's freekin' fast. You will have 16 cores on the mac before you have a Scarlet in your hand. Think about that. If you can't ROI a skulltrail system FAST - and you don't need to lay 2K to tape in RT - well ... your money is better spent elsewhere.

What most people miss is how much faster you can process with SUPER FAST STORAGE. Get FAST storage!! There are some new PCIe Raids that offer lots of bang for the buck.

CS4 will not disappoint you -:devil:

But what do I know ... (wink!)

[RivaiC]

A couple big surprises at IBC (6 weeks away) .... buy what you need to use NOW ... but you will have exciting new options for I/O cards sooooooo soon.

There is something which I think is a game-changing for the DIY guys on the MAC side - coming from a company nobody is paying attention to at the moment - can't tell you any more than that except I'll give you a little clue - that companies stock was below $12 a share at close yesterday - a steal at that price.

Skulltrail is a short-term, stop gap. If you have the business NOW, skulltrail is the way to go - we LOVE ours - it's freekin' fast. You will have 16 cores on the mac before you have a Scarlet in your hand. Think about that. If you can't ROI a skulltrail system FAST - and you don't need to lay 2K to tape in RT - well ... your money is spent elsewhere.

What most people miss is how much faster you can process with SUPER FAST STORAGE. Get FAST storage!! There are some new PCIe Raids that offer lots of bang for the buck.

CS4 will not disappoint you -:devil:

But what do I know ... (wink!)

Sounds good mark ! Thanks for the head up ! Appreciate it very much. I will take a look on CS4 !

[Steve Sanacore]

That's VERY big.

Well I guess it's time for me to give Premiere another try.

Very exciting news!

[Fredrik Harreschou]

I just have to chime in - WOW! This is way beyond cool. Somebody just got kicked in their "apples" ;)

Please share some info, will it come as a single .AEX file?
Will there be a QuickTime-codec for Windows as well? At the same time or a different issue?

OMG, editing on PPRO, finishing on SRATCH with AE as a VFX tool. All native. Next week. I can't believe it.

If they are able to integrate the NVIDIA frame buffer in PPRO (like when editing native HDV and not like Cineform) I am 100% HAPPY.

EDIT: After reading through this thread again I just have to emphasize that this is NATIVE support. This is not like editing the proxies in FCP. This is the same support as SCRATCH has. You load in a bunch or .R3D-files, set your debayer settings, color temp etc and OFF YOU GO. I deserves another WOW!

[Martin Weiss]

I expect the answer to be no, but I just have to ask: On the Mac, will it also work on a Quad G5?

No matter what: awesome news, thanks!

[Jay A. Kelley]

I expect the answer to be no, but I just have to ask: On the Mac, will it also work on a Quad G5?

No matter what: awesome news, thanks!

Actually I think there's a chance the answer could be "yes"

Jay

[Kjetil Haugen]

Now it's getting interesting again!! AE support is huge. Can't wait to test it. Hopefully this will also put pressure on apple to release that native support for Color.

[Esteban Sosnitsky]

This is just unbelievable. Its just great.
I had been trying to figure out a way to work out a workflow including AE and Color. I guess one of this issues is now solved!!!! THANKS SO MUCH. I guess this shows how RED is changing the industry. AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Actually I think there's a chance the answer could be "yes"

I'm betting on "no". :( As much as I'd like native R3D support on my G5 Quad, I don't think it's going to happen. But my PCs will finally get to play, so that's good.

[Rob Lohman]

As far as I know at least Premiere is Intel only on the Mac. In any case our stuff is Intel only for Mac and we're not doing PPC. You would not like the performance on such a system I'm afraid.

It's already hard enough to support the current platforms & post tools. Sorry.

I know everyone has lots of questions on how all of this works exactly but you'll have to wait till next week. Please keep in mind that this will be a first release, more updates will be coming after it.

Thanks,

[Jay A. Kelley]

Rob,

Good morning. Sleep at all?

I know people on here have been asking a LOT about Premiere's ability to edit in 4k (Although for the life of me, I can't figure why).. But my question is: Do you expect a decent operating speed when working in 2k or 1080p, or does it not work that way since you are still coming down from 4k?

Jay

[Barry Gregg]

Rob;
Will the alpha/beta Premiere update be available here on Red.com or will Adobe only distribute to it's internal beta testers?

[Meryem Ersoz]

I wish Apple would have shown redusers and the digital cinema revolution some love. But short of that, this is an excellent development. Apple is suffering under the weight of its own bloat, too bad.

Adobe is going to find some new buyers from this, if Apple doesn't answer this move...nice for them and for us....

oh and, thank you RED team, for not wasting a second pushing this through...

[Dane Brehm]

For anyone who cares

The Digital Cinema Society meeting is August 5th @ Adobe in San Francisco. 6:30p-9:00p.

If you care to see what Adobe's got in store for us Red Users....

[Steve Sherrick]

There is something which I think is a game-changing for the DIY guys on the MAC side - coming from a company nobody is paying attention to at the moment - can't tell you any more than that except I'll give you a little clue - that companies stock was below $12 a share at close yesterday - a steal at that price.
Mark, you kill me man. Need another clue or two to track this one down. :help:


What most people miss is how much faster you can process with SUPER FAST STORAGE. Get FAST storage!! There are some new PCIe Raids that offer lots of bang for the buck.
Any suggestions? I'm in the market to buy some fast storage.


CS4 will not disappoint you -:devil:
When is this scheduled to be released? I can't believe I'm contemplating Premiere, but that's how this industry works. Everything comes in cycles.


But what do I know ... (wink!)
Apparently a lot! :biggrin:

[Meryem Ersoz]

There is something which I think is a game-changing for the DIY guys on the MAC side - coming from a company nobody is paying attention to at the moment - can't tell you any more than that except I'll give you a little clue - that companies stock was below $12 a share at close yesterday - a steal at that price.



i'll take a stab at it...nvidia? there just aren't that many publicly traded companies that make cards...nvidia is known for positioning itself at the high end of processing power, which fits RED. and it's under $12, and i look at a lot of cheap stocks, and not many are cheap these days, even if their prices look beaten down, but this one is actually somewhat attractive at its PEG and has been on my watchlist...

and they've got that Tesla architecture that has really found its home yet in a consumer-based model, mostly institutional so far, and this certainly fits the need for speed.

do i win?

[Curran Giddens]

do i win?

I think you are the winner!

Mark also gave us all a tip on NVDA's stock price last year. Although, I'm not so sure that one worked out quite well....

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=53369#post53369

[David Wyatt]

I wish Apple would have shown redusers and the digital cinema revolution some love. But short of that, this is an excellent development. Apple is suffering under the weight of its own bloat, too bad.

Adobe is going to find some new buyers from this, if Apple doesn't answer this move...nice for them and for us....

oh and, thank you RED team, for not wasting a second pushing this through...

I guess Apple is too busy churning out millions of iPhones to give FCP users some love...:sad:

[Jeremy Newmark]

Any suggestions? I'm in the market to buy some fast storage.

Check out http://www.dulcesystems.com/ They make some very fast storage. The systems are rock solid and support is fantastic.

[Steve Sherrick]

Check out http://www.dulcesystems.com/ They make some very fast storage. The systems are rock solid and support is fantastic.

Thanks! Have you compared them to Caldigit?

[Meryem Ersoz]

I think you are the winner!

Mark also gave us all a tip on NVDA's stock price last year. Although, I'm not so sure that one worked out quite well....

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=53369#post53369

wow, I missed that one, you have some memory, Curran. The market environment is a little different now than it was then. But the chart is actually looking pretty nice for a trade right now. Big blow-off gap on declining volume, could muddle along for awhile, which would be a good thing. Limited downside, unless the market legs down from here, strong probability as these miserable bank failures work their way into the system...

But I digress...

[Jeremy Newmark]

Thanks! Have you compared them to Caldigit?

I have not physically tested them against the Caldigit arrays, but I did do a lot of research before we finally decided to buy our first Dulce array. The first one worked wonderfully and we bought a second one about 6 months later. Dulce was started buy guys who used to work for Huge systems, and I believe they left after Ciprico bought them out, so while the company is fairly new, the people behind it have been doing this for a long time.

There are a lot of really good storage solutions out there these days, so I can't speak for all of them. But my experience with Dulce has been wonderful. The speed, performance, reliability, support, ease of set-up and integration into existing infrastructure have all been stellar.

[Mark L. Pederson]

Although, I'm not so sure that one worked out quite well....

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=53369#post53369

LOL! I actually got out at a very nice moment.

And now I am getting back in - :wink:

I think Jen-Hsun Huang is a winner. I like to bet the jockey.

[Thor Wixom]

Any suggestions? I'm in the market to buy some fast storage.

Try 3Ware. The Sidecar is great. 250 MB/sec sustained RAID 5, 3TB. You can swap them like external FW800 drives once you install the controller card.

-Thor

[Steve Sherrick]

LOL! I actually got out at a very nice moment.

And now I am getting back in - :wink:

I think Jen-Hsun Huang is a winner. I like to bet the jockey.

so, I'm guessing HD-SDI support might be in Mac's future?

[Joe G.]

Will Adobe support the greater than 4k width?

When will Red add this mode?

[Greg Huson]

Any suggestions? I'm in the market to buy some fast storage.




I'm a big fan of generic done well (yet freakishly still an Avid user, but I digress) and lately I'm pimping for Ron @ MAXX Avid who's selling essentially the same tech as Cal Digit and Dulce- theirs is called the 'EVO2' (they've moved to a newer external box.) Not yet networkable, but local to a macpro In Raid 5, I get speeds better than 600 MB/s - that's real-time dpx territory.

And, it's so cheap, around 5 grand or so for 8tb, I'm mainly using it as near-line backup of our I-can't-afford-to-upgrade-it Facilis Terrablock (also a great product, but different price range.)

Hard drives have become commoditized, so go for service and value. I've also heard great things about Cal Digit, and literally have had clients bring them in for capture- they're pretty slick but more $.

[Greg Huson]

I should say ron at maxx digital- not enough coffee yet this morning. http://www.maxxdigital.com/
I don't know who the hell Maxx Avid is.

[BASSAM MSSALATIE]

the FCP shortcuts is a good starting place, but they are a few short. i have a preset with many more key strokes implemented. I'll put a link up. it was publicly available via a online news letter a few months ago.

Steve Oakley

Will you please post it's link .thanks

[Fredrik Harreschou]

Will Adobe support the greater than 4k width?

When will Red add this mode?

AE does and has for a long time. Premiere does not at the moment. No sweat, you will not want to edit at 4K+ anyways...

[Fredrik Harreschou]

I get speeds better than 600 MB/s - that's real-time dpx territory.

And then some... :blink:
How many disks?

[Justin O'Neill]

Ron at Maxx Digital really does have uber fast drives for a great price. Really cool guy to do business with as well.

[Mark L. Pederson]

so, I'm guessing HD-SDI support might be in Mac's future?

close but no cigar

[BASSAM MSSALATIE]

After effects was named like that cause it is dealing with a lot of effects
IT supports a hundreds of effecs with different brands and names .
Is this plug in which is planed to release next week .will it be capable to
Handle R3d files (with multieffects)applied to it ..?

[Randall Nott]

Sorry to branch off on a tangent, but is there any good source for Premiere CS3 tutorials online? It's looking like I might need to brush up a bit, I don't ever edit with Premiere and I'd prefer to build on my rudimentary foundation and avoid the keyboard shortcuts that mimic FCP. I guess there's a tutorial DVD that comes with CS3, could check that out. Heh.


Adobe's own site is pretty good for brush-up tutorials for just about any Adobe product.

http://www.adobe.com/designcenter/video_workshop/

Any word yet on how/if this will effect Cineform users?

[Rudi Herbert]

Lynda.com has a ton of tutorials for Adobe products, including Premiere. The paid tutorials really are worth the price of admission, with them, you can master the program in a couple of weeks I'd say. Lots of things there that took me years to figure out and it's all there for the taking. Also, Richard Harrington's site www.photoshopforvideo.com has lots of good stuff on how to really make the best of Photoshop and Premiere's integration. He sells a book with tons of examples that is worth the effort for anybody that wants to use Photoshop for video projects.

[Obin Olson]

I am not sure you would need cineform if it's a native adobe support, maybe for the HDSDI output though...and your VFX pipe could use cineform if it would play with the native support for r3d on the same timeline, and as a archive format..?

depends on lots of things, but I could see still using Cineform for lots of things, maybe less RED centric then it could/should/would have been. ? they have a fast engine. I am a bit afraid of Red support knowing how many years it took cineform to "get it just right" for editing ONLINE HD and beyond.

My hope is the IMPORT EDIT and EXPORT work well, and at the bitdepths that are needed for deep pixel support and no loss of quality from edit - finish. If RedCine is really good at one thing it's knowing how to deal with colors in a VERY professional way, even with the limited toolset it has, I would expect and accept nothing less of an Adobe RAW-RED workflow.

[Joyfool]

Does this mean that we can cut R3d (Premiere Pro) in mac PPC?

can you even install ppro cs3 on ppc? I don't think it's possible...

[Rudi Herbert]

I am not sure you would need cineform if it's a native adobe support, maybe for the HDSDI output though...and your VFX pipe could use cineform if it would play with the native support for r3d on the same timeline, and as a archive format..?

Well, when Cineform releases their .r3d engine, if it performs faster and more stable than the native adobe version with virtually no quality loss, then we will have a decision to make. "Native" is almost always better, but not really in some cases, as Cineform has proven to be the case. Speed and stability are key as long as perceived quality does not suffer.

[Steve Freebairn]

Well, when Cineform releases their .r3d engine, if it performs faster and more stable than the native adobe version with virtually no quality loss, then we will have a decision to make. "Native" is almost always better, but not really in some cases, as Cineform has proven to be the case. Speed and stability are key as long as perceived quality does not suffer.

Except that Prospect 4k is 2000 dollars per copy. You could buy another copy of the Master collection for that much.

[Obin Olson]

Prospect comes with hardware, well worth the price.

at this very moment I am cutting 1080p with HDSDI to a plasma, off the timeline, footage is on a SAN with consumer drives, and a consumer gigabit network. Can't beat it.

What I am doing(and do every day of the week) used to cost upwards of $60,000

The Camera is a bargain, post is a bargain, it's all about the workflow now and maintaining quality from capture to final master. As in photography, desktop publishing, and music, cost is not going to be the issue in the near future, artist, workflow, and finished quality will be.

[Adrian T.]

Great news. Also concerning NLE competition. :weight_lift:

Apple, wake up from your slumber! :whistling:

[Murat Civcik]

Greaaaat neewws

[Maz Mawlawi]

native support in Adobe is nice! I am so excited!!!
But Cineform still has its uses....it allows you to run those high quality avi on very cheap hardware. You don't need a high end RAID array for cineform files...You can easily edit 1080P cineform projects on a laptop with amazing performance and still keep 4:4:4 color space....

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

(ignore)

[A. Bastaki]

this adobe thing is freggin awesome. my main requirements are to support the kelvin change.. the temperature. and finessed export codecs. red cine is kick ass when it comes to that stuff. which is why i like crimson. because it allows me to finally edit the r3d files and adjust curves and correct color temperature.

[Rob Lohman]

It appears that the support is limited to 8-bit color per channel..

what are you talking about?

[A. Bastaki]

It appears that the support is limited to 8-bit color per channel. :mellow:

But that's fine, cause you can re-link with 16 bit TIFFs from RedCine.

i wouldn't mind editing in 8 bit on premiere, so as long as the grading is done when the footage is imported via a r3d raw viewer/tweaker(which is 10.. dunno 12 bit).. like a redcine within premiere. you adjust ure footage and then select okay. and edit. and in the end when you want to do second grades or better.. you could sendto AE. where you can edit the r3d raw file in say color finesse in 32bit and then render the entire sequence out from after effects. you can do it in dpx.. cineon.. and whichever shit you want. and the beauty of it is.. is that if you export to avi or mov.. the audio is still there from premiere.

Ah... i just f&^cking love adobe.

edit. Rob said.. 8 bit or 32 bit. pick ure poison.

[Meryem Ersoz]

And now I am getting back in - :wink:



December in-the-money 15s look like a good, cheap play on the gap. I may take a flyer myself. I'd avoid the common for the moment, this bear looks hungry.

[luis bustamante]

At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi. At last we will have revenge.

[Obin Olson]

Great news. Also concerning NLE competition. :weight_lift:

Apple, wake up from your slumber! :whistling:

don't think a random shout on a message board is going to get to the Apple people you need to shout out. just an fyi.....:)

[Obin Olson]

Hey Rob, what is the idea on how your dealing with feeding Adobe apps 4k raw footage?

[MikeHedge]

hey Obin, I'm curious about your workflow. you use a SAN with gigabit? and that plugs into you ethernet port? So it's a network with just itself and the SAN?

[Simon Blackledge]

close but no cigar

need to play with the bits after HD ... :)

s

[Rob Lohman]

Hey Rob, what is the idea on how your dealing with feeding Adobe apps 4k raw footage?

Not sure I'm following.... but whatever it is you'll have all the answers you'll need sometime next week.

[Munthe]

A lot of people doesn't seem to be aware that the only thing Premiere Pro shares with the old Premiere from the 90's is part of the name. Premiere Pro was written to be released in 2004. The code is much more up to date than FCP (written in -95/96). In fact - Premiere Pro is the ONLY NLE on the Mac that runs natively in OSX. FCP's source dates back well before the introduction of OSX and a massive rewrite would be called for to bring it up to Premiere Pro specs really.

Premiere Pro is THE most advanced and modern NLE available on the market in terms of the stuff it handles natively. It's been written to handle image sequences natively - and it amazes me the VFX industry hasn't embraces this as it's been whining ever since Discreet killed Edit in the mid 90's about the lack of sequences in NLE's.

I'm not intending to start a war of any kind but it's an undisputable fact that Premiere Pro was written for the computer age we're in right now and both FCP and Avid are getting old fast.

I work as a work flow wizard using RED and when I started that I had to go back from a few years using mainly Premiere Pro back to FCP - I've been using both heavily. Going from a daily work flow using Premiere Pro back to FCP feels like going back in time eight years.

THE most powerful feature of Premiere Pro is the copy/paste function from Premiere Pro's timeline into After Effects and rendering eight or sixteen cores with 2GB RAM per core memory allocation in Vista 64. So far that's the most powerful and fast rendering experience I've had in any post environment. Ad to that a really powerful GPU and it get's even more fun. Using 3rd party you can do that as a background task for even faster post work. And you're never tied to QuickTime - which is a wonderful thing. And if you want to add render nodes you can get powerful boxes with noting more than a gigabit board, ram and a fast CPU at a price simply not available running OSX. Great for 32bpc work.

[Obin Olson]

Well seeing as how you will not have luck getting playback of 4k raw files, how are you scaling - or? pulling proxy resolution out or what? just wondering how it's done because I am so excited about a solution I can't stay off here!!

I hope you can understand Rob ;) :) :)

[Obin Olson]

I hope you have some type of "fullscreen" out for using a plasma or projector to edit by like in a normal premiere project.

[Obin Olson]

A lot of people doesn't seem to be aware that the only thing Premiere Pro shares with the old Premiere from the 90's is part of the name. Premiere Pro was written to be released in 2004. The code is much more up to date than FCP (written in -95/96). In fact - Premiere Pro is the ONLY NLE on the Mac that runs natively in OSX. FCP's source dates back well before the introduction of OSX and a massive rewrite would be called for to bring it up to Premiere Pro specs really.

Premiere Pro is THE most advanced and modern NLE available on the market in terms of the stuff it handles natively. It's been written to handle image sequences natively - and it amazes me the VFX industry hasn't embraces this as it's been whining ever since Discreet killed Edit in the mid 90's about the lack of sequences in NLE's.

I'm not intending to start a war of any kind but it's an undisputable fact that Premiere Pro was written for the computer age we're in right now and both FCP and Avid are getting old fast.

I work as a work flow wizard using RED and when I started that I had to go back from a few years using mainly Premiere Pro back to FCP - I've been using both heavily. Going from a daily work flow using Premiere Pro back to FCP feels like going back in time eight years.

THE most powerful feature of Premiere Pro is the copy/paste function from Premiere Pro's timeline into After Effects and rendering eight or sixteen cores with 2GB RAM per core memory allocation in Vista 64. So far that's the most powerful and fast rendering experience I've had in any post environment. Ad to that a really powerful GPU and it get's even more fun. Using 3rd party you can do that as a background task for even faster post work. And you're never tied to QuickTime - which is a wonderful thing. And if you want to add render nodes you can get powerful boxes with noting more than a gigabit board, ram and a fast CPU at a price simply not available running OSX. Great for 32bpc work.



word.

It's why I stay away from FCP, tried it, had less features then Premiere, ditched it, tried it again, felt like it was the same version as first try, ditched it. tried it a 3rd time for editing RED. hated it. am still a Premiere freak. It works for me better then most things, and works better then most with other apps. Need some really slick Color time Adobe app though for RED, Premiere will not and I repeat WILL NOT cut it for color.


Rob and Gang, if I wanted one thing after the abbility to Import Cut and Export finished projects in Cs3 with RED it would be a high quality RGB curve inside the editor for a "onelight" in realtime while editing, I don't care if it's perfect or "online" quality but enough to get a "proxytime" <---a new word? Anyway, a proxytime would really be a huge help to see past "raw" flat look.

oh, and EDL support for RedCine from Cs3 :) :)

[Shane Betts]

close but no cigar

Rumour has it that Apple is moving away from Intel chipsets on their motherboards (still using Intel CPUs) and nVidia seems to be in the blocks for the replacement.

Am I getting warm?

[Jason Rivera]

Prospect comes with hardware, well worth the price.

at this very moment I am cutting 1080p with HDSDI to a plasma, off the timeline, footage is on a SAN with consumer drives, and a consumer gigabit network. Can't beat it.

What I am doing(and do every day of the week) used to cost upwards of $60,000

The Camera is a bargain, post is a bargain, it's all about the workflow now and maintaining quality from capture to final master. As in photography, desktop publishing, and music, cost is not going to be the issue in the near future, artist, workflow, and finished quality will be.

What hardware does Prospect 4K come with? To allow you to preview out to a monitor I hope?

[Thor Wixom]

What hardware does Prospect 4K come with? To allow you to preview out to a monitor I hope?

I think he meant hardware suppport... like being able to use Prospect with the Xena card.

-Thor

[Munthe]

word.

It's why I stay away from FCP, tried it, had less features then Premiere, ditched it, tried it again, felt like it was the same version as first try, ditched it. tried it a 3rd time for editing RED. hated it. am still a Premiere freak. It works for me better then most things, and works better then most with other apps. Need some really slick Color time Adobe app though for RED, Premiere will not and I repeat WILL NOT cut it for color.


Rob and Gang, if I wanted one thing after the abbility to Import Cut and Export finished projects in Cs3 with RED it would be a high quality RGB curve inside the editor for a "onelight" in realtime while editing, I don't care if it's perfect or "online" quality but enough to get a "proxytime" <---a new word? Anyway, a proxytime would really be a huge help to see past "raw" flat look.

oh, and EDL support for RedCine from Cs3 :) :)

After Effects does that for me. Copy/Paste. Or simply just open Premiere Pro projects in After Effects. If the regular "Photoshop on wheels" tools in AE doesn't do it for you there are a lot of rich 3rd party plugins like Magic Bullet Looks adds even more grading options. Magic Bullet Looks is also available for Premiere Pro.

[Munthe]

I think he meant hardware suppport... like being able to use Prospect with the Xena card.

-Thor

Matrox Pharelia for monitor previews is a good and working option. Cineform is based on using the GPU so I don't see a point in using anything other than GPU for output. PNY has a GPU solution for Premiere Pro as well.

[conrad gaunt]

....
We're also not done yet feature wise (there will be many and frequent updates to the Adobe integration) so we'll need to grow in that area too.

But we're extremely excited to bring this new workflow to our customers. We understand that it's been a while coming and we appreciate the patience.

It's going to be an incredible year and wait till you find out what's in store for next year :)

Any chance you`ll be replacing the premiere rendering engine Cineform style ? A Redcode/debayer acceleration card? A hover board? :)

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

what are you talking about?


http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=261829&postcount=92

A-ah, sorry. I have misread the post you were quoting.

So, this means 32 bit per channel?

[Thor Wixom]

Matrox Pharelia for monitor previews is a good and working option. Cineform is based on using the GPU so I don't see a point in using anything other than GPU for output. PNY has a GPU solution for Premiere Pro as well.

Cineform can use the GPU or graphics card for output to a monitor (not pure video though, unless you're using a Xena card and not the GPU), but it uses the CPU for all it's processing. It's not taxing the GPU for processing, only for display.

-Thor

[Steve Freebairn]

Prospect comes with hardware, well worth the price.

at this very moment I am cutting 1080p with HDSDI to a plasma, off the timeline, footage is on a SAN with consumer drives, and a consumer gigabit network. Can't beat it.

What I am doing(and do every day of the week) used to cost upwards of $60,000

The Camera is a bargain, post is a bargain, it's all about the workflow now and maintaining quality from capture to final master. As in photography, desktop publishing, and music, cost is not going to be the issue in the near future, artist, workflow, and finished quality will be.

What hardware does Prospect come with?

[number6]

What hardware does Prospect come with?

Maybe he means it's bundled with hardware?

[David Wyatt]

LOL! I actually got out at a very nice moment.

And now I am getting back in - :wink:

I think Jen-Hsun Huang is a winner. I like to bet the jockey.

Woah! Brave!! Haven't they got a big pricey recall coming up?

http://www.engadget.com/2008/07/31/figuring-out-which-nvidia-gpus-are-defective-its-a-lot/

[Mark L. Pederson]

Woah! Brave!! Haven't they got a big pricey recall coming up?

http://www.engadget.com/2008/07/31/figuring-out-which-nvidia-gpus-are-defective-its-a-lot/

Yup. After a little dip - nowhere to go but up.

[Rob Lohman]

So, this means 32 bit per channel?

yes, our numbers are always "per channel"

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

yes, our numbers are always "per channel"


OK, thanks.

I removed my misunderstood post.


P.S. Wow. :sorcerer:

[Ted Chu]

Just received my new Mac, should I return it? Hate that Mac only renders at half resolution.

[Rob Lohman]

You can run bootcamp + Windows on your mac... or Premiere & AE on OS X

[Munthe]

Cineform can use the GPU or graphics card for output to a monitor (not pure video though, unless you're using a Xena card and not the GPU), but it uses the CPU for all it's processing. It's not taxing the GPU for processing, only for display.

-Thor

Yes. It can output Pure Video if the GPU hardware supports it (like the Matrox solution or the Quadro SDI) - through component or SDI connectors. And why would you prefer to tax the CPU when the GPU is so much more powerful at working with video signals? In my opinion CPU is so much more useful in other areas. Like rendering and system tasks. .r3d files has got nothing to do with old IRE/SMPTE standards anyway - so why try to force it into that work flow with traditional video cards aimed at the 8-bit tape deck input/output RS-422 crowd?

Elemental Technologies has an interesting thing in the works. And here's a little animation explaining why GPU is so much more powerful than CPU.
http://www.elementaltechnologies.com/how_it_works.php

It's all about looking at the post process from a new perspective. Tape is dead. Not only in aquisition.

[Robert Sanders]

Apple is currently re-writing FCP from the ground up. Don't ask me how I know this. I just do.

The new FCP will look and feel more like Aperature/Final Cut Server with brand new code and rendering engines. Basically Carbon 64 is dead and FCP needs to be a 64-bit app. and it needs to be it NOW.

Final Cut Studio 3 should be very interesting.

[Munthe]

You can run bootcamp + Windows on your mac... or Premiere & AE on OS X

It's an option. If you like having no BIOS and so so hardware drivers. And Premiere Pro in it's OSX version is slightly stripped on features compared to the Windows version.

[Munthe]

Apple is currently re-writing FCP from the ground up. Don't ask me how I know this. I just do..

I hope so. I've been hearing that rumour since 2001.

And i do hope it's not to close to FCP Server that is in my opinion not really ready for prime time quite yet.

[Randall Nott]

Lynda.com has a ton of tutorials for Adobe products, including Premiere. The paid tutorials really are worth the price of admission, with them, you can master the program in a couple of weeks I'd say. Lots of things there that took me years to figure out and it's all there for the taking. Also, Richard Harrington's site www.photoshopforvideo.com has lots of good stuff on how to really make the best of Photoshop and Premiere's integration. He sells a book with tons of examples that is worth the effort for anybody that wants to use Photoshop for video projects.


Agreed on both of these.
This is another gem burried on Adobe's site, the Online Seminars; you just have to set up an Adobe ID and password.

http://tinyurl.com/5z2epk

Thanks everyone who responded to my Cineform question. Lots of great info on this quickly diverging multi-thread.

[Obin Olson]

After Effects does that for me. Copy/Paste. Or simply just open Premiere Pro projects in After Effects. If the regular "Photoshop on wheels" tools in AE doesn't do it for you there are a lot of rich 3rd party plugins like Magic Bullet Looks adds even more grading options. Magic Bullet Looks is also available for Premiere Pro.

the name says it all - magic bullet - not for me I don't throw on a plugin and call it a day, I am sure its great for lots of people but I grade my footage - not the same thing as throwing on a look at all :)

I can usualy spot a 'bullet' finished film from a long way off, sad thing about plugins is they are over used for a while and it drives them out of style really fast.

[Brad Hawkins]

the name says it all - magic bullet - not for me I don't throw on a plugin and call it a day, I am sure its great for lots of people but I grade my footage - not the same thing as throwing on a look at all :)

I can usualy spot a 'bullet' finished film from a long way off, sad thing about plugins is they are over used for a while and it drives them out of style really fast.

In theory I agree with you about plugins and their over use, but I don't think this applies to Magic Bullet looks. Sure there are a lot of canned "looks" that you can apply with it, but if you want to "grade" your footage by hand you have that option as well.

The fact that it doesn't have key framable masks sucks, but other than that it can be a really powerful tool. :)

[A. Bastaki]

Just received my new Mac, should I return it? Hate that Mac only renders at half resolution.

i'm running 64 bit windows xp on mine... it rocks... super fast.. super super fast.

macs tend to get really slow after a while. so does windows.. but it takes a much longer while for windows.

I don't beleive in that magic bullet stuff.. i agree it does look good.. but nothing like grading your own looks.

[Munthe]

the name says it all - magic bullet - not for me I don't throw on a plugin and call it a day, I am sure its great for lots of people but I grade my footage - not the same thing as throwing on a look at all :)

I can usualy spot a 'bullet' finished film from a long way off, sad thing about plugins is they are over used for a while and it drives them out of style really fast.

I would never "throw a plugin on anything an call it a day" either. You clearly have a misconception of Looks. Check it out. It's a grading tool with full manual control - with the option to start from a bunch of presets.

I can spot a film using nothing but presets too. I agree with you totally on the fact that presets are over used. Presets jockeys gets boring fast. And they give the tools a bad rep. Don't blame the tool for the bad operator. That would be like blaming RED for all the badly shot RED footage out there.

[Munthe]

i'm running 64 bit windows xp on mine... it rocks... super fast.. super super fast.

macs tend to get really slow after a while. so does windows.. but it takes a much longer while for windows.

I don't beleive in that magic bullet stuff.. i agree it does look good.. but nothing like grading your own looks.

Adobes apps are really RAM hungry. And even more so on OSX for some reason. I suspect it's because they are ports on OSX and the main development is on Windows.

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

It seems to me that the MB Looks presets are just starting points, there's plenty of controls in there and possible combinations too...

Just my 2c.

[A. Bastaki]

Adobes apps are really RAM hungry. And even more so on OSX for some reason. I suspect it's because they are ports on OSX and the main development is on Windows.

yeah ive got 9 gigs of ram on my mac.. and boy when i turn the activity monitor it really shows how much macs suck out ram. which is why adobe is so heavenly to use on windows. i really hope CS4 will be supporting 64 bit.. want to take full of use of my ram in after effects.

[Sven Seynaeve]

all i'm hoping for is a 4k capable hdsdi or dvi output card for adobe asap,
this would be a killer application used with grading and the sony 4k

[Obin Olson]

It seems to me that the MB Looks presets are just starting points, there's plenty of controls in there and possible combinations too...

Just my 2c.


pretty funny short!!!
great shooting!

you may like our "Long Road Home' on the mobijokes.tv site

[Simon Blackledge]

You really think those that have the capital to purchase a Sony 4K projector are going to be running a pc with cs3 into it :-/

Ok, well... apart from Jim...

[Barry Gregg]

Magic Bullet Looks can run as a stand alone app that will grade .jpg stills. I have used it on set to grade a still of the scene as we shoot. The director is amazed to see a graded still on set within a minute of setting the lighting. I can pre-build the look and save it out and then apply it on set, make a couple of tweaks and have a frame that is very close to a final grade on set. It really is very powerful and totally customizable. It runs very nicely on my MacBook Pro.
The presets are just a starting point. If you don't like them, don't use them.

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

pretty funny short!!!
great shooting!

you may like our "Long Road Home' on the mobijokes.tv site


You mean our "Make Sure" thing with the Colt?

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

"Long Road Home' on the mobijokes.tv site


Bwhahahah. :)

That's one way to solve the problem. :)

I suppose it is shot with RED.

Did you use back-projection or greenscreen?

[Obin Olson]

mini dv !!!
back projection yes :)

[Obin Olson]

Yes the Colt film was good, had NO idea that was coming ;) good work. Visual style was pleasing.

This thread is really walking OT..:)

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

*offtopic on*

Great, I'm glad I surprised you. :)

Thanks for watching.

*offtopic off*

:)

[Steve Freebairn]

i'm running 64 bit windows xp on mine... it rocks... super fast.. super super fast.

macs tend to get really slow after a while. so does windows.. but it takes a much longer while for windows.

I don't beleive in that magic bullet stuff.. i agree it does look good.. but nothing like grading your own looks.

You should try running Vista x64 really, if you want it to work better. XP x64 isn't a supported OS for CS3.

[Cail Young]

boy when i turn the activity monitor it really shows how much macs suck out ram.

OS X aggressively caches as much as it can in RAM - disk reads, programs, anything really. So, why are you worried if your RAM's full all the time? What you need to look at is the Page Outs and Ins - as long as it isn't hitting the hard disk for memory then you're not going to experience a slowdown.

[Brian Harbauer]

You should try running Vista x64 really, if you want it to work better. XP x64 isn't a supported OS for CS3.

Vista 64 isn't a supported OS either, but works fine.

[Munthe]

Vista 64 isn't a supported OS either, but works fine.

Vista 64 is not supported only because 32-bit apps wil always be 32-bit apps. Much like Final Cut Pro is "not supported" in OSX 64 bit architecture.

[Munthe]

all i'm hoping for is a 4k capable hdsdi or dvi output card for adobe asap,
this would be a killer application used with grading and the sony 4k

Why do you need a projector for grading? I couldn't think of a more awkward way to grade. Great for sound mixing and checking digital prints though.

[Steve Freebairn]

Vista 64 isn't a supported OS either, but works fine.

That's true, you're right, I forgot that it wasn't "certified" on Vista x64. I know that the installers of a few of the collections frequently crash out on XP x64 installation. I've been running the master collection with Vista x64 since it came out and it's been nothing but smooth sailing.

The thing that is easy to forget is that while Ae and Pr are only 32 bit applicaitons, and so you might think that a system with more than 4GB of ram might be overkill, it's actually not because of the fact that Ae has multicore processing so it starts up a render engine for every core you have, and each render engine can use 4gb, also, Windows and OSX take up a bunch of ram, so, running 64bit OS with 32 bit applications gives you the ability to pack a ton of ram in your system, so that each individual 32 bit application can actually get it's maximum amount of ram.


From the adobe Premiere FAQ in case anyone cares

"Although Adobe Premiere Pro is not a native 64-bit application, it can run on 64-bit versions of Windows Vista. In this configuration, you can install up to 64GB of RAM in the system, and Adobe Premiere Pro can address up to 3GB of this RAM."

[Lucas Wilson]

Why do you need a projector for grading? I couldn't think of a more awkward way to grade. Great for sound mixing and checking digital prints though.

Why do you think it's awkward? Grading through projectors in a theatre is pretty much the accepted standard these days for grading feature films.

A good projector in a well built room gives you a much more accurate color profile for feature work than a CRT. They can also be calibrated to a wide variety of color spaces, while CRTs are limited to what they can do.

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA

[KStephens]

Within a week, RED R3D files will open natively in CS3 Premiere Pro and After Effects.

Jim

That's great news!

Now that Adobe is on board, is there any chance of Autodesk (ie. Discreet) adding support?

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

Vista 64 is not supported only because 32-bit apps wil always be 32-bit apps. Much like Final Cut Pro is "not supported" in OSX 64 bit architecture.


Has anybody compared CS3 performance under XP64 and Vista64?

[Munthe]

Why do you think it's awkward? Grading through projectors in a theatre is pretty much the accepted standard these days for grading feature films.

A good projector in a well built room gives you a much more accurate color profile for feature work than a CRT. They can also be calibrated to a wide variety of color spaces, while CRTs are limited to what they can do.

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA

I don't work in theatrical feature films so I'm probably dead wrong. I've just never in my entire life seen a projector that doesn't spill light on the screen - affecting areas that should be completely black. So that's why I'm having a hard time seeing how a projection could give me any kind of control that would be sufficient. But hey; if you're good you could grade using only scopes.

[Munthe]

Has anybody compared CS3 performance under XP64 and Vista64?

Yes. It's generally a little bit faster on XP64. But the downsides to XP are many. The ride is smoother in Vista 64 with less "chokes" and crashes. And a lot of 3rd party stuff simply won't install on XP64. And a lot of hardware drivers are not available on XP64 which narrows down you choices in hardware configs.

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

Thanks.

Hmm. :unsure:

[Justin A. Lincoln]

Did I miss something here...was this plugin created by Adobe or by someone, presumably someone at RED, using the R3D SDK?

[Munthe]

SDK's are for 3rd party developers. I don't think RED themselves are in need of an SDK.

[Justin A. Lincoln]

SDK's are for 3rd party developers. I don't think RED themselves are in need of an SDK.

The root of my question is that there's a huge underlying difference between someone like Adobe or Apple providing the support for native R3D and an outside party, be it RED or Joe Programmer, developing the plugin to allow it.

[Sven Seynaeve]

Mr. Flameop,

Does equipment and editing packages have to cost a fortune just to assure you , that it's valuable to use it....

I've got very good reasons to ask for this route because clients over here already know that avids and quantels won't last to much longer unless they really progress and make themselves THE tool to make your production amazing and standing apart from the rest...

It's like people looking at us in a strange way when we edited a musicvideo or commercial, ....now they're actually doing just the same...

But if i can get 4k playout right out of an adobe sys which does'nt cost me 250000 or 600000, that would be great and I can spend that extra fortune on one of the greatest projectors by now, i think the projector will last longer than your higher priced system would.

( This doesn't declares that I would'nt take another better route, when we need an efficient red workflow , but al least it seems very promissing and I'd like to thank Jim and his team for the great ideas he has been delivering us for about 3 years or longer since this forum came out....)

I understand your opinion, but I've always been one of the best to figure budgets out and getting the max out of my money. I've never regretted one business decision over the years and i've never been buying something that was out of date sooner than later..... So I suppose I'm pretty experienced with this kind of decisionmaking...

[Jason Rivera]

I think he meant hardware suppport... like being able to use Prospect with the Xena card.

-Thor

Oh, gotcha! Thanks! That threw me off.

[John Allardice]

i'm running 64 bit windows xp on mine... it rocks... super fast.. super super fast.


When did they add xp pro 64 to the bootcamp lineup?...I thought the only 64bit OS it would accept was vista or vista ultimate?

[Robert Sanders]

As a working editor in Hollywood I think everyone should be warned that no studio will currently approve a Premiere Pro editing solution. They're BARELY accepting FCP workflows.

It's still AVID, AVID, AVID.

Premiere Pro enlists giggles and laughs amongst the brass. Trust me. I know. It's annoying and condescending. But it's reality. FCP still gets a raised eyebrow.

Just sayin'.

[Richard Lackey]

Man this is great news, CS3 is the best NLE Adobe has brought out, the first real contender. I still love Avid, but from someone who uses both regularly, I would have no issues using Premiere as an offline NLE tool, people's perceptions on the other hand are a different issue and have little bearing on the software's ability or suitability as a editorial tool for Red.

I'm glad the industry here in South Africa are not so hung up on a single system. A NLE is a NLE and a EDL is a EDL when it comes to your online conform. If you can get footage in, cut it and spit an EDL out, then it's fine as a offline tool in my opinion.

[Craig Bowman]

As a working editor in Hollywood I think everyone should be warned that no studio will currently approve a Premiere Pro editing solution. They're BARELY accepting FCP workflows.

It's still AVID, AVID, AVID.

Premiere Pro enlists giggles and laughs amongst the brass. Trust me. I know. It's annoying and condescending. But it's reality. FCP still gets a raised eyebrow.

Just sayin'.

I think that was on my list of things to be concerned about. Right after the Sun will explode one day.

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

the Sun will explode one day.


Whaat?! When?!!! :waaa:

[Steve Sherrick]

As a working editor in Hollywood I think everyone should be warned that no studio will currently approve a Premiere Pro editing solution. They're BARELY accepting FCP workflows.

It's still AVID, AVID, AVID.

Premiere Pro enlists giggles and laughs amongst the brass. Trust me. I know. It's annoying and condescending. But it's reality. FCP still gets a raised eyebrow.

Just sayin'.
I agree with the perception part. I started on Avid and when FCP came rolling around, it was essentially a hobbyist software. Then it started to pick up momentum and Walter Murch used it on Cold Mountain, and suddenly, it became a respectable option, even amongst some of the Hollywood crowd. Charles Koppelman's book Behind The Scene is an interesting read, because it follows the struggles they had, including getting Apple to recognize the significance of what they were trying to do.

FCP is a good example though of what can happen if some key people implement a workflow. Murch, The Cohen Brothers, and others are high profile enough to lend some legitimacy to a product/workflow. If Murch was to decide that Premiere Pro was what he wanted to use on his next feature, and then other Hollywood editors followed suite, would the perception of Premiere change?

If you have clients that insist on using industry standard tools, then you have to accommodate that. If you have full control over your projects, then you go with the tools that make sense for your business. If you have a kick ass workflow using Premiere and After Effects and you are churning out good work, who cares about perception? If you have clients who must edit on Avid or FCP, then forcing them to use Premiere isn't going to work.

[James Mathers]

Digital Cinema Society Meetings of Interest To REDusers

#1): Our Northern California Chapter meeting on the evening of August 5th at Adobe’s San Francisco offices has timed out perfectly with Jim’s announcement here that RED R3D files will soon open natively in CS3 Premiere Pro and After Effects. As previously announced, this meeting will cover Adobe solutions for posting Sony XDCAM EX, followed by Adam Wilt and Art Adams sharing some of their findings after rigorous tests of both RED and XDCAM EX. However, in response to the new developments, we have arranged to first hear from Adobe’s Simon Hayhurst, who will share the latest details of their new RED workflow, as well as the Cinema DNG initiative, an effort to develop cross platform solutions for the nonproprietary exchange of Digital Cinema Camera RAW files.
This is certainly exciting news regarding Adobe's new abilities to handle RED footage, but it makes a lot of sense since Adobe have long been the masters of RAW workflow with still images, and RED utilizes similar technology, (albeit complicated greatly by running at higher frame rates).

Northern California REDusers are invited to attend and non-DCS members are welcome, but please mention it in the RSVP, so we can send you a link to an introductory DCS Free Trial Membership.

RSVP with your phone and e-mail contact to:

Trudi@DigitalCinemaSociety.org

#2) Another DCS meeting, which takes place in Los Angeles on the subject of Accessorizing Your Digital Cinema Camera will also be of interest to REDusers. On Saturday, August 9, 2008, from 10am-12pm at Plaster City Digital Post in Hollywood, the Digital Cinema Society will explore what it takes, and what is available, to build a high-end Digital Cinema Camera Package. We’ll look at everything from filters, matte boxes, follow focus, handheld rigs, and Break-out Boxes.*

Manufacturers invited to participate include ARRI, Schneider Optics, Zacuto, RedRock Micro, Toys4RED, and Element Technica. Vendors who are involved include Abel Cine Tech, SIM Video, and Birns and Sawyer. Attendees will also have a chance to see very impressive large screen projection of the RED shot demo material in the Plaster City Digital Screening Room.
Again, this is a DCS member event, but all REDusers are welcome; just let us know you are not yet a DCS member, and we will send you a link for a complimentary introductory trial membership. RSVP with “Digital Cinema Camera Accessories” in the subject line to:

Mathers@DigitalCinemaSociety.org

Interested REDusers in other part of the world should know that we record all of our events for later streaming from our website; so check back later and catch up on all the details.

James Mathers
Cinematographer
President of the Digital Cinema Society
Studio City, CA

[Thor Wixom]

As a working editor in Hollywood I think everyone should be warned that no studio will currently approve a Premiere Pro editing solution. They're BARELY accepting FCP workflows.

It's still AVID, AVID, AVID.

Premiere Pro enlists giggles and laughs amongst the brass. Trust me. I know. It's annoying and condescending. But it's reality. FCP still gets a raised eyebrow.

Just sayin'.

Robert,

Just hearin'. :)

But as always, the pendulum swings.

-Thor

[Brian Harbauer]

Vista 64 is not supported only because 32-bit apps wil always be 32-bit apps. Much like Final Cut Pro is "not supported" in OSX 64 bit architecture.

Right, sorry I guess we were both making the same point.

[Lucas Wilson]

I think that was on my list of things to be concerned about. Right after the Sun will explode one day.

Considering that based on your location, you probably don't live day-in, day-out by what is accpeted in the LA post community, this probably isn't a huge concern. :)

But, it is still a very valid comment.

Just as an example - I am writing this from a machine room inside one of the big studios in Burbank. Over to my right, they are dubbing an episode of a *current* TV show for delivery to a network... on D2.

Hollywood changes veerrrrrrrryyyyy slowly sometimes!

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA