AVID vs. REDOne using REDCine ...

[RaiNerD]

I'm from Germany so please forgive me my bad english ... :biggrin:

My goal is to edit on AVID MC installed on PC.
I guess it's the easiest way to view the material in REDCine, export good shots with TC and framenumbers as QT HD1080, import it in AVID (Or whatever) as DNxHD 36, edit it and then re-export the needed shots as TIFF sequences with 4k, 16bit for finalizing in NITRIS or whatever needed.
From the 4k TIFF-sequences we could also make 2k or HD and even SD master as well.
The TIFF-master might be 7TB for a 80min movie but I guess this is the most professional workflow and the first tests were very successfull.
With this workflow you're also platform (MAC/PC) and software/hardware (MC, Premiere, FCP, Nitris, DaVinci etc.) independant.

Only REDCine is a little buggy. Once the shots were exported as TIFF-sequences I couldn't change the export settings again. They're all greyed out even if I save the project, close REDCine and reopen the project. Maybe because REDCine is installed on VISTA?!?!?!?!?
And by the way ... Why is there no waveform/vectorscope software monitoring option when the CC is so powerful, easy and beautiful to handle?!?!?!?

I guess REDCine is a good way to handle the RED material but there could be some improvements:
- Organizing the material (Databank etc.)
- Add comments to the clips
- Ability to view them on speziallized HR monitors (Or Sony 4k projector :) )
- Compare multiple clips
- Waveform/vectorscope software monitoring option
- More comfortable export options
- A small rough-cut option (Clips only, no FX) would be the greatest thing of all
- And maybe the ability to handle the coffee machine and call a pizza ... :biggrin:

What do YOU think ... :)

[Wayne D]

we use REDCINE here on WINDOWS and no problems. Check the REDCINE threads as they have a heap of info on what bugs have showed up and a lot of good fixes.

what version of REDCINE rea you running?

[John Tissavary]

They're all greyed out even if I save the project, close REDCine and reopen the project.

That is a feature, not a bug. Once you've rendered you either have to 'trash output' or 'invalidate' to have access to the greyed out buttons.


RedCine is not intended as a proper grading tool. It works beautifully, and thank Assimlate and their incredible talent and experience for that, but it's just a transcoding tool with some really super features.

All of your enhancement ideas are already available in Scratch, which is Assimilate's conforming & grading product - but it's not free.

Some more features will eventually make their way into RedCine, but it's not likely that it will ever be a fully featured data management, conforming, & grading tool. For that you definitely want to check out Scratch.

- Organizing the material (Databank etc.)

Library in RedCine does a nice job of that.

- Add comments to the clips

Scratch has it, RedCine doesn't.

- Ability to view them on speziallized HR monitors (Or Sony 4k projector :) )

You're not likely going to see SDI output in RedCine, but it's available now in Scratch.

- Compare multiple clips

Scratch has dual views, in RedCine tyou can do a gesture swipe to the right of the screen to bring up the clip layers, do your grading versions there, then click from one layer to the next to compare. You can't do an a/b or windowed comparison, but it's still useful.

- Waveform/vectorscope software monitoring option

Probably won't happen. Assimilate does not believe in software scopes, and I have to agree with them. Histogram and color curves are the only software graphs and they're in both Scratch & RedCine.

- More comfortable export options

Can't argue too much there, but once you get more used to the workflow of Assimilate's software you'll see the beauty in the existing features.

- A small rough-cut option (Clips only, no FX) would be the greatest thing of all

I doubt you'll see an editor (Scratch does have this), but you can use Crimson to get an XML cut list from Final Cut into RedCine.

- And maybe the ability to handle the coffee machine and call a pizza ...

That's already there - just press the 'h' key to find the pizza keyboard shortcut...



cheers,

JT

[RaiNerD]

@wayno:
I use the latest release ... :-(

@lunacie:
Yeah ... I know I have to trash my output ... But if I have exported the shots as TIFF-sequences this has no effect to the settings buttons ... so I hope this is NO feature ...
And I really know that REDCine is no CC tool. But if I DO CC (Proper or not) even only for WB I want to see what I really do. At the moment no one can use the CC function seriously because you can't be sure that your colors stay safe ... By the way ... Where are the histogramm/color curves buttons? *ggg*
Last thing ... I don't want to use SCRATCH ... And I don't want a commercial for SCRATCH ... sorry ... :-)

But what do you think about my mentioned workflow? I know it's not as comfortable as editing it directly in AVID but ...

[Wayne D]

ok - i trashed the newest realease of RC and went back v1.0.4 and found that to be stabel.

also - if you are going to finish in NITRIS then maybe you should export DPX files and colour grade in a 3rd party software.

do you have AFTER EFFECTS? Could grade in that?

[RaiNerD]

After Effects for grading instead of Nitris or DaVinci???
I use it for animation and titeling but for grading ... :blink:
Is the DPX format compatible with Nitris and batchimportable (Nice word) to a cutted MC sequence?
Guess I'll make some new tests with it ...

[Wayne D]

i do beleive that DPX is fine with NTRIS.

AE CS3 comes with colorfiness 2 and will do all the colur grading you want at full float point. our last job was final export 16bit DPX and grade in Baselight.

[RaiNerD]

I'll have a look at colofiness ...

But here comes the next joke. I can't export DPX 16bit from REDCine. Only 10bit is avaiable, the other options are greyed out and not available ... :w00t:

The REDOne records in 12bit???

:help: (<- too cute ... *ggg*)

[Lucas Wilson]

And I really know that REDCine is no CC tool. But if I DO CC (Proper or not) even only for WB I want to see what I really do. At the moment no one can use the CC function seriously because you can't be sure that your colors stay safe ... By the way ... Where are the histogramm/color curves buttons? *ggg*

Histogram - "U" key, or swipe up top and turn on the "histogram" button. The "Full" button on the Histogram toggles between a quick realtime display, and a more descriptive display with color curves.

You want to see what you "really" do?

Calibrate your monitor.
Use the Histogram and RGB tool on the right side of the GUI to analyze specific colors and problem areas.

Toggling the "COLOR" button turns on and off color metadata.

Best,

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA

[RaiNerD]

Yeah ... Calibrate a PC monitor for CC and tell Sony we don't need their class 1 thing ... *LOL*

[Esteban Sosnitsky]

But does the Avid Nitris import dpx or tif sequences?

[RaiNerD]

Don't know something about dpx but I guess TIFF must work. MC can import TIFF sequences so why should NITRIS not.
I guess NITRIS and MC is the same software like XPress and MC was ... I just say "menu enabler" ... *LOL*

[MichaelP]

DS is a different code base. It supports DPX, TIFF, and a host of other formats. It can work in 2K, 4K, RGB, LUT import/export. The PC based installer for MC and Symphony include MetaFuze which is a standalone transcoder for DPX with LUT and aspect ration control to make DNxHD directly. This is a free application and is not protected. 10bit DNxHD will be added in a future release.


Michael

[Lucas Wilson]

Yeah ... Calibrate a PC monitor for CC and tell Sony we don't need their class 1 thing ... *LOL*

Lots of very good monitors out there that hold calibration really well... just takes skill and experience.

Lucas

[Dylan Reeve]

I know of a number of grading suites where people are now using high-end DVI monitors with a Blackmagic HDLink for monitoring. Perhaps not the final monitor, but even up next to Sony's best they look damn good.

[RaiNerD]

I saw the JVC DT-V20L1D (LCD-TFT, round about $3000,-) connected via SDI. Material was DigiBeta 2:1 captured on AVID.
In my eyes this monitor isn't good enough for production. There was a black-shoulder, colors were incorrect etc. (Don't know the right english terms for description ... :waaa: )
The picture quality of a $1000,- CRT is still better.

[Lucas Wilson]

I saw the JVC DT-V20L1D (LCD-TFT, round about $3000,-) connected via SDI. Material was DigiBeta 2:1 captured on AVID.
In my eyes this monitor isn't good enough for production. There was a black-shoulder, colors were incorrect etc. (Don't know the right english terms for description ... :waaa: )
The picture quality of a $1000,- CRT is still better.

Take a look at Cinetal and eCinema. You're not looking in the right places to find a good LCD.

Lucas

[RaiNerD]

Okay. I don't know this company, maybe because they have no resellers in Germany. I'll ask some of my dealer.

But ... This thread should be about a workflow with REDCine and AVID using Quicktime bad resolution for editing and TIFF sequences for mastering and your opinions and suggestions to this ...

For grading I'll take a DaVinci system with a Sony 4k projector, if DaVinci can 4k I don't know. Maybe it's possible to switch this suite to NITRIS, I don't know. And it doesn't matter because I don't have these systems but my service provider (Ritgh term?!?!? *ggg*) does and I'll find a solution for grading with them ...

[Igor Ridanovic]

Okay. I don't know this company, maybe because they have no resellers in Germany. I'll ask some of my dealer.



There is also a German display manufacturer that had their displays at NAB for the last several years. Pretty decent stuff. I'll post their name if I remember it. There can't be too many of them if you want to search.

[Igor Ridanovic]

But does the Avid Nitris import dpx or tif sequences?


Nitris is the hardware box. The software can be either DS or Symphony.

DS can import either but DPX has the added advantage of having metadata which is crucial for conforming.

If you're not conforming you can also import 16 bit tiff sequences.