NAB info please : EVF and Canon EOS mount (birger)

[David Nardini]

Hello all,

I might have missed any feedback on the EVF usage (how does critical focus work) ?

Also, anybody seen a Canon EOS RED/birger adapter ? any details ? likely shipping date ?

Thanks to all (the lucky ones at the show) for the feedback to date ;-)

PS : WELL DONE RED TEAM ... you must be over the moon with what you have achieved to date ... congratulations.

[Brook Willard]

No real details at this time. You can control iris and focus from the RED SuperGrip.

[Joe Vinson]

Just to confirm: the announced Canon EOS mount is DIFFERENT that the Canon mount currently available for order? Or is it the same mount with functionality that will be enabled by the SuperGrip?

[Harmonica]

Yes, it's different. It's a third party offer from Birger. The Canon mount that Red is producing is an FD mount.

[Joe Vinson]

Thanks!

[S. Um]

Will the super grip work with PL and Nikon lenses, too?

[PaulClements]

Will the super grip work with PL and Nikon lenses, too?

I think it will work with the RedMotor which will inturn work with the PL and Nikon lenses. To what extent it's unclear.

[Mike the beginner]

No real details at this time. You can control iris and focus from the RED SuperGrip.


Just wondered if the super grip will also have a start button on for the camera. This could be very useful IF PRE-RECORD IS AVAILABLE


Does anyone know if pre-record is going to be a feature?


Mike the beginner

[zak forrest]

No real details at this time. You can control iris and focus from the RED SuperGrip.

what about an EOS zoom lens? would this eliminate the need for a motor to control zoom?

[David Nardini]

Does anyone know if pre-record is going to be a feature?


indeed ... anybody know ???


what about an EOS zoom lens? would this eliminate the need for a motor to control zoom?

Birger Engineering : There has been discussion of control of aperture & focus (fixed or zoom lens). No idea if the design is to interface with the RED SuperGrip ???

[ColinSmith]

what about an EOS zoom lens? would this eliminate the need for a motor to control zoom?

Canon EOS lenses only zoom manually, there are no powered zoom guts in there to link anything to.
Grip control of appature and focus are the gains that are coming.

[Joe Vinson]

I understand that zoom won't be possible, since it's all manual to begin with (no motors to control remotely), but what about other electronic features of EOS lenses -- autofocus, image stabilization, etc.? Any word?

[Anders Holck]

Autofocus is a property of the camera, the lens just have a dumb motor.
Without autofocus logic in the camera, there's no way to do it.
IS should work, as it works on current Birger RS232 adaptors. You would need a button to activate it though.
Beware that still lens IS works a bit different than on a video lens. There is no algorithm to smoothly reset the gyros.
Having the IS on all the time, if you Pan around and then stand still, the gyros will not reset and the stabilization effect will decreasee a lot.
To get maximum stabilization you have to disengage the trigger, and press it again for the gyros to lock on to the image center.
At least that is my experience with my Canon IS lenses

[zak forrest]

is it silly to dream of a lens like the Red 18-50, which doesnt require an external red motor to have zoom control with supergrip?

or an EOS lens that has a zoom motor? i dont know much of any of this kind of stuff, so maybe this is too far fetched..

[Michael Ragen]

The super-grip has a start/stop record button on it. It also has a small joystick type controller that I was told is similar to the Microforce and what looks to be 3 user assignable buttons. There are also 4 buttons in the middle of the grip that one of the Red guys told me correspond to the audio channels, so if you notice one channel is peaking, you could press that channels button and use the joystick to lower or raise the gain. All subject to change of course.

I also believe someone said it would be possible to have 2 Red motors on a lens, so maybe you can switch between focus and zoom. I'm not sure about this though. Also the Red motor will fit on 19mm and 15mm rods as it has an adjustable clamp mount.

[Mike the beginner]

The super-grip has a start/stop record but on it. It also has a small joystick type controller that I was told is similar to the Microforce and what looks to be 3 user assignable buttons. There are also 4 buttons in the middle of the grip that one of the Red guys told me correspond to the audio channels, so if you notice one channel is peaking, you could press that channels button and use the joystick to lower or raise the gain. All subject to change of course.

I also believe someone said it would be possible to have 2 Red motors on a lens, so maybe you can switch between focus and zoom. I'm not sure about this though. Also the Red motor will fit on 19mm and 15mm rods as it has an adjustable clamp mount.

Thanks for that deadmike:biggrin:

I get the impression that Birger will provide the combined mount and interface and cables that will allow the use of the canon EOS lenses. This also opens up the possibility of using other third party lenses like sigma and tamron etc.

From what i have read it seems that birger will allow other third parties to develop a motor or remote control features such as remote follow focus and zoom motors with remote facility. I figured the EOS canon zooms will get remote control but it will be with mechanical assistance fitted to them. Birger is likely to have their own remote control set up and it looks like red will too, Others are in on this as well. Overall i am excited by the fact that these things are likely to make the camera and lenses easier to use. Originally birger were talking of a mount between $1000 and $1,500 but they seem to be more linked to red now and not just a loose third party developer if you get my drift.

I thought we might have got news of someone being bold enough to re-house some selected still lenses at a special price and cure the focus draw situation but no news?

Mike the beginner

[Paul Leeming]

Having the IS on all the time, if you Pan around and then stand still, the gyros will not reset and the stabilization effect will decreasee a lot.
To get maximum stabilization you have to disengage the trigger, and press it again for the gyros to lock on to the image center.
At least that is my experience with my Canon IS lensesThanks Anders, that's a very useful little tip and would explain a couple of my shots that seemed to have blur with image stabiliser on (not motion blur). Cheers!!

[jbeale]

...Beware that still lens IS works a bit different than on a video lens.

The original Canon IS was intended for shots without intentional camera movement, but the Canon EOS IS lenses designed after 1997 have IS Mode 2 which will work with a pan or tilt action (although not both at the same time).

See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EF_lens_mount#Image_stabilizer

The most effective EOS lens stabilizer yet is apparently the 70-200 f/4 IS which claims 4 stops of improvement with the stabilizer on. That means image shaking must be reduced by a factor of 2^4 or 16 times. Impressive.

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelDetailAct&fcategoryid=150&modelid=14260

[Erik Widding]

Birger Engineering : There has been discussion of control of aperture & focus (fixed or zoom lens). No idea if the design is to interface with the RED SuperGrip ???

This is covered in the release:
http://www.red.com/news/view/78

[Martin Drew]

Erik.

Was the prototype at NAB? I haven't seen anyone comment about it.

M

[andrewl]

Hi

My name is Andrew Lapierre from "Video MTL" in Montreal.
Just want to tell the Reduser group that we have a controler for the Birger Adapter.
We are able to control all canon EOS lens functions and more.

Please contact me at: 514-704-5590
EMAIL: al@videomtl.com
www.videomtl.com

Andrew Lapierre

Thank you

[Erik Widding]

Was the prototype at NAB? I haven't seen anyone comment about it.

Yes. But I don't know if it was out. Have to ask someone from RED.

[jbeale]

I'm curious about the iris control of Canon EOS lenses via the Birger mount. Is the resolution of the aperture setting just 1/3 of a f-stop, as it is on a regular Canon body? I don't know why it would allow any finer setting, since these lenses were not intended for motion picture work. Still, it would be nice if you could do a smooth aperture adjustment, rather than a big visible step.

[Erik Widding]

I'm curious about the iris control of Canon EOS lenses via the Birger mount. Is the resolution of the aperture setting just 1/3 of a f-stop, as it is on a regular Canon body? I don't know why it would allow any finer setting, since these lenses were not intended for motion picture work. Still, it would be nice if you could do a smooth aperture adjustment, rather than a big visible step.

Canon EOS iris will be stepped. Lens does not allow for any other option. It is a detent stepper motor.

This raises an interesting question. We will be using a stepper motor in our nikon mount. Is speed or smoothness in moving the aperture more important? I assume it is somewhere in the middle. So, if you want to be heard on the Nikon, give me a pair of f/numbers and a max time to go between them. If there is any consensus, it will become the spec. N.B. faster means bigger steps. We will not make the step size any larger than on the Canon.

I have a bunch of motors on my desk, and we are literally designing the nikon iris mechanism in the next few weeks.

[jbeale]

The reason I asked is because for live event work it's often helpful to be able to adjust the iris on the fly. In this case visible steps in exposure are a real drawback. (I assume you don't have direct control of the stepper field windings, otherwise you could maybe do microstepping.) Anyway, it may be that most people using red are doing controlled setups where the exposure is not changed. It may also be that Nikon, et. al. iris movements are mechanically "sticky" such that a perfectly smooth iris change is not even possible, after all that was never the design intent of those lenses. Just guessing- I have no idea.

[Stuart English]

We're very pleased to be working with Erik at Birger on the EOS mount, and as the press release on our web site states, the interface to the RED ONE camera is intended to be via the RED SuperGrip. This provides remote iris and focus commands (and potentially also zoom if a RED MOTOR or other compatible external motor can be added to the mix)

Integration of these lenses won't replace P/L mount lenses for mainstream cinematography use, but they certainly do offer a valuable addition to the toolset. We are at prototype stage on these items, so more details including pricing and formal specifications later.

Thanks for the NAB feedback from those I spoke with.

p.s Just to confirm this mount is NOT the FD mount listed in the price list.

[Clint Johnson]

I for one am hoping that the SuperGrip and Birger EOS mount come in under $2,000. I have some Canon L glass and there are a couple more primes that I'd like to get... but if it is much more than that, the economics of it start leaning towards getting the PL lenses... or more likely (and sadly), going back to the original idea of using Nikkor lenses with Red's Nikon Adapter.

No, that wasn't yet another request for a price on it, I know it is still in development so the ballpark is still pretty big. It's just a guy hoping for the best.