IMS Installed Finally!!!

[Sanjin Jukic]

IMS Installed Finally!!!

I've just got back from a vacation and found IMS parcel in my post.

Opened it, read instruction and installed all in 20 minutes.

Also I still didn't collimate the mount and left that job to P+S Technik technicians because I'll be on a way to München this week and visit them.

They will do the job probably better than me.

Anyway I did some tests and here we go:

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/IMS_onRED_sample01.jpg
Candles test: Metadata ISO 500, Kelvin 4800, Tint 33.0, lens Leica Summilux-R wide open at f 1.4. No any CC.

2K TEST FOOTAGE (click to save)>>> (http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/IMS_candles_01.mov)

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/IMS_onRED_00.jpg
IMS on my RED finally with Leica Summilux-R 50mm f/1.4.

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/IMS_onRED_01.jpg
My RED life has got finally easier, lighter and much cheaper.

More tests to follow soon.

[Gunleik Groven]

congratulations!

[Sanjin Jukic]

congratulations!


Thanks Gunleik.

I'm now learning with RED that each half, quarter or even fifth part of a light stop is very important for available light shots.

Amazing.

[Tico Llaurador]

Awesome, Sanjin!!! Leica on RED forever!

[Dustin Cross]

Sanjin,

Can you take to pics of how the IMS is installed?

What about the cable i/data cable?

How do you change lens mounts?


Thanks,
Dusty

[Mitch Deoudes]

Any update on the warranty issue? Isn't there an IMS redesign in the works, based on Red warranty specs?

[Zakaree Sandberg]

what was the final cost?

[Steve Sherrick]

cool, are we still outside of warranty safety though? I haven't heard the latest on this.

Looks like a great setup though. If all is well on the warranty front, I will look into this option.

One question though. How well do the adapters work? I have seen some good PL adapters and some that were less impressive.

[Dustin Cross]

Anyone from Red,

What is the warranty status of this mount? I really want to get one of these.

Will installing the IMS mount on my camera completely void the warranty or just void damage caused by this mount? Is there any specific damage Red thinks the IMS mount would cause?


Thanks,
Dusty

[jbeale]

The last post I heard from Red on this subject (Jarred's post here: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=255332&postcount=2278 ) was that the IMS mount example Red received for eval had no room at all to tuck away the i-cable when fitting it, the cable would have to be cut off (!) to install the mount. Red was awaiting a redesign to evaluate further.

[Nick Gardner]

How well do the adapters work? I have seen some good PL adapters and some that were less impressive.

P&S are the best arri techs outside of arri. They make the BL4 Evolution, Upgrade SRs from 1 to 2.9, their stuff is as good as it gets. Period. No body makes better quality stuff, the technology doesn't exist.

Cheers,

Nick

[Dustin Cross]

On the P+S Technik website they say you no longer need to cut the i-cable.

http://www.pstechnik.de/en/optics-ims-red.php

I think Jarred said somewhere that any removal of backfocus portion was also a problem.

Thanks,
Dusty

[Bruce Allen]

what was the final cost?

Didn't he volunteer his Red as the P+S guinea pig? I would hope they gave it to Sanjin for free as thanks.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[Zack Birlew]

Noctilux 50mm 1.0 test please! =)

[jimhare]

I got quoted around the $2k mark for the mount plus 3 or 4 adapters.

All in all, pretty fair!

[Joel Kaye]

Congrats! Looking forward to seeing lots of lenses.

[M Olsen]

Any possibility of using the Canon EF lens or is Birger still the only mount to have iris control for Canon ?

[ericyoung]

Any possibility of using the Canon EF lens or is Birger still the only mount to have iris control for Canon ?

No, the Canon EF mount is dumb on the IMS, but check out Alesniak's prototype Canon EF smart mount.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=17454

Birger still has the edge with the hopefully forthcoming control knobs and bluetooth remotes though.

[PaulClements]

"If needed the IMS can also be re-exchanged to the original RED One mount" - P+S Technik website

I don't see why it should void any warranty if this is the case. Though it'd be useful to hear it from the horses mouth.

Paul

[Sanjin Jukic]

My RED life with IMS is beautiful!!!

Here some pics about to store i/cable during IMS installation.

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/icable_storage_01.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/icable_storage_02.jpg

Birger is a nice idea but everybody here should know that still zoom lens doesn't handle a focus during zoom like a cine lens.

But all of still zooms can be used as a variable primes only.

I'm just asking myself is it making any sense to work with EF or DX still zooms as zoom lenses and better you can stay with Canon L, Sigma's and Nikkor manual primes.

There are a lot of excellent and very fast manual still lenses from diverse brands that can be swapped on RED with IMS.

If you need a professional zoom that get PL cine zooms.

[Mark Phelan]

The way you stored the cable seems to make a good deal of sense. Since the i/cable doesn't work yet anyway, wonder if that would not make for a better solution from the factory in the first place, with the cable out of the way and stored. Then, when, and IF someone were to every actually need it, they could pull it out and make the connection. Seems like there are more folks who would use it this way than not, but what do I know.

[Sanjin Jukic]

My beautiful RED life with IMS!!!

More details:

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/IMS_longest_lens_02.jpg
The longest lens in my collection: Carl Zeiss Fernobjektiv 500mm f/8 M42 on m42/Canon EF adapter attached on IMS Canon EF dumb mount.

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/IMS_longest_lens_01.jpg
Shot using Carl Zeiss Fernobjektiv 500mm f/8 M42 on RED with IMS.

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/IMS_widest_lens_02.jpg
The widest lens in my collection Sigma AF 14mm f/3,5 Nikon F attached at IMS Professional F mount on RED.

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/IMS_widest_lens_01.jpg
Shot using Sigma AF 14mm f/3.5 with IMS Professional F mount on RED.

So everything has got to be LIGHT and EASY in those IMS on RED days.

The light weight tripod and fluid head.

The light weight still photo manual lenses from different brands like a Leica, Zeiss, Nikon, Sigma, Schneider-Kreuznach, etc...

Also everything has got much much cheaper with still photo lenses...

[Dustin Cross]

Sanjin,

So there is nothing to prevent the i/cable from getting lost inside the body of the Red?

What does the back of the IMS mount look like? Is there no room to make a hole to hold the i/cable connector so it doesn't get lost inside the of the Red?

Does pushing that few inches of wire back inside Red effect anything inside?

Hopefully someone from Red will be able to give us an answer soon.


Thanks,
Dusty

[Tonaci Tran]

I would buy it in a heartbeat but the fact that it voids the warranty kills it.

[marasco ivan]

hi sanjin,
do you have a close-up of the new nikon professional mount.in what it is different from the normal nikon mount??
thanks

[Tonaci Tran]

Anyone from Red,

What is the warranty status of this mount? I really want to get one of these.

Will installing the IMS mount on my camera completely void the warranty or just void damage caused by this mount? Is there any specific damage Red thinks the IMS mount would cause?


Thanks,
Dusty

Dusty,
I was informed by RED staff that the current design of the IMS system voids the warranty. The P+S website is very misleading when they say it doesn't void the warranty. Even ZGC, the US distributor of this mount makes you sign a waiver before buying it. Sanjin got some balls to void his warranty for this mount. hehe

http://zgc.com/zgc.nsf/c7a682995edb4e7585256b4d001ebd57/17c599249e99bd11852574890053ee0c?OpenDocument

"EXTREMELY IMPORTANT NOTICE
Using the P+S Technik IMS RED Mount will void the warranty on the RED One camera.
With your purchase of this item ZGC will require that you sign a waiver."

[Sanjin Jukic]

Dusty,
I was informed by RED staff that the current design of the IMS system voids the warranty. The P+S website is very misleading when they say it doesn't void the warranty. Even ZGC, the US distributor of this mount makes you sign a waiver before buying it. Sanjin got some balls to void his warranty for this mount. hehe

http://zgc.com/zgc.nsf/c7a682995edb4e7585256b4d001ebd57/17c599249e99bd11852574890053ee0c?OpenDocument

"EXTREMELY IMPORTANT NOTICE
Using the P+S Technik IMS RED Mount will void the warranty on the RED One camera.
With your purchase of this item ZGC will require that you sign a waiver."

There is about 6 months left when warranty of my RED will expire.

My RED performing extremely well in all conditions, hot and cold weather, etc...

Thanks to P+S Technik I add a brand new "make up" lens mount that voids warranty but on the contrary RED camera is not in any danger.

I would say its up to user to decide.

Only RED user by yourself could decide to get IMS if she/he is in a need.


hi sanjin,
do you have a close-up of the new nikon professional mount.in what it is different from the normal nikon mount??
thanks

It work like this: you put your lens in and turn the mount ring to the right side to follow arrow>>close.

Than all is fixed and a lens is not going to turn in any direction.

Rock steady fixed in the mount.

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/IMS_nikonpro_01.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/IMS_nikonpro_02.jpg
IMS Nikon Professional F mount adapter for RED (dumb).

[Giancarlo Bianchi]

How do you control the F/stops with that? It odes accept AF lenses right?

[jbeale]

Thank you for the informative photos and descriptions. I'm still curious about the cable issue, because Jarred's post, http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=255332&postcount=2278 states "the only way to make it work is to actually cut off the /i cable" but Sanjin's post http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=267648&postcount=22 illustrates Jarred's statement to be incorrect.

My question is, did Jarred just not consider the possibility of tucking the cable back through the hole into the body, or was this option duly considered and found to be unworkable for some specific reason?

[jimhare]

This is what P&S said as well. They felt their design left ample room for the i-cable, but RED does not agree, which is what matters.

RED obviously need to be comfortable with what is being done to their cameras. I'm fine with this.

My feeling is that the mount itself probably won't cause problems if professionally installed, but so many cameras seem to go back for other issues (fan, power etc.) that I would be very concerned about being without the warranty so I'll have to wait.

I hope there is a good resolution as I would LOVE to have this mount.

This is the latest communication I had with P&S about a week ago:

------------
Hi Jim,


still no news from RED side.

The information, that P+S is 'back to the drawing board' is also not
correct, because with the cameras, that have been assembled with the IMS
here in our house, the i/cable is not cut. We do not see the need, to go
back to the drawing board.

Enclosed a 'strip' of storing the i/cable, which we did with a customers
camera on last Friday.

At the moment, the warranty is voided with our IMS, with or without cutting
the i/cable.
We can only demonstrate, that nothing is damaged on the RED One with our
product.

Now it is on RED side to judge.

[Ed Blythe]

Intriguing - again, Sanjin, thanks so much for your efforts.

Hope it passes the warranty test.......

[Zakaree Sandberg]

can you easily replace the origional red mount?

[Evin Grant]

I think P+S really needs to get the production IMS mount to Jarred or Stuart ASAP. This is a very elegant mount and I believe it will be a great solution once it has Red's blessing.

[jimhare]

Hi Evin,

There seems to be a stalemate. P&S sent the production IMS for approval but it was rejected, and now it seems like P&S do not intend to alter the design.

Hope something changes.

[Martin Weiss]

Has anyone considered taking the next logical step (which worked out nicely for the Birger mount)?

Offering Jarred chocolate...

[Tico Llaurador]

I think P+S really needs to get the production IMS mount to Jarred or Stuart ASAP. This is a very elegant mount and I believe it will be a great solution once it has Red's blessing.

You can say THAT again, Evin!

It *is* the way to go, IMHO.

[jbeale]

No doubt, Red's policies are up to Red to decide. However I think many people would appreciate some explanation of why the apparently simple and straightforward i-cable solution that P&S recommends and that Sanjin's photos illustrate, is considered unsuitable by Red.

[Evin Grant]

The only thing I can think of is the possibility of the /i connector being lost in the body. Trying to fish it out with tweezers may hurt sensitive electronics.

[Giancarlo Bianchi]

And it could interfere with other electronics or the cooling fans!

[Evin Grant]

I think the fans are at the bottom of the camera in their own compartment but the sensor board is obviously right there.

[PaulClements]

I was always a little disappointed something like the IMS wasn't developed by Red in the first place. I can recall imagining such functionality when Red talked about using other lenses than just the PL mount.

I certainly hope Red give this their approval, even if it means the warranty for just the mount section of the camera is void.

Paul

[Sanjin Jukic]

I think P+S really needs to get the production IMS mount to Jarred or Stuart ASAP. This is a very elegant mount and I believe it will be a great solution once it has Red's blessing.

Thanks Evin for a nice words about IMS mount.

I think RED team already have got IMS to try out.

BTW., I'm enjoying it even do not have all mount adapters that missing like a Panavision PV and BNC-R.

The issue with existing IMS base mount is that doesn't support i/cable because IMS PL mount is a separate peace of thing that screws/swaps on IMS base mount.

Following the fact that to make i/cable connection between IMS base and IMS PL mount is possible but could be very expensive to make now or an opposite could be cheaper in a future when more RED users demand i/cable as a standard.

My favorite IMS mount adapter is Leica-M.

Also I do not owe more than 3-4 Leica-M mount lenses but in a future looking forward to get the best from Leica, Voigtländer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voigtländer) and Zeiss.


And it could interfere with other electronics or the cooling fans!

Just open your desktop or even better laptop, iphone or any other mobile device computer, phone, camera, etc..., and have a look how many cable spaghetti are there that do not interfere other electronics.

[Giancarlo Bianchi]

I think the fans are at the bottom of the camera in their own compartment but the sensor board is obviously right there.

What if the cable falls to the bottom? I think youre not supossed to push it back... Anyway, let the red team speak about this one.

[Giancarlo Bianchi]

Just open your desktop or even better laptop, iphone or any other mobile device computer, phone, camera, etc..., and have a look how many cable spaghetti are there that do not interfere other electronics.

Hehehehe...... lets hope not.

[Sanjin Jukic]

How do you control the F/stops with that? It odes accept AF lenses right?

It accepts all manual Nikon F, AF, G and DX lenses.

But aperture ring you should know that is possible to control on manual and AF lenses only.

All other dream options are still in a fog.

I have to check it out this week what happened with my 16/9 Nikon G lenses on Canon EF mount with aperture control.

--------------------------------

I was just rolling some test footage made from my desktop to balcony and couldn't resist:

Let's talk Olympics.

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/IMS-_Zeiss_Olympia_180mm_02.jpg
The legendary 'Olympic' Sonnar designed for Olympics games in 1936 Berlin.

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/IMS-Zeiss_Olympia180mm_01.jpg
Bamboo leaves from my balcony shot using Zeiss Olimpia Sonnar 180mm f/2.8, ISO 320, all on RED with IMS (Nikon F mount).

No any CC.

Still a great lens after 72 years!!!

Right away from REDAlert.

In shortly OUTSTANDING quality.

Even Terrence Malick could get jealous about a picture beauty.

[Johan Pabon]

I believe they were made especially for Leni Riefenstahl, right?

[Thor Wixom]

Birger is a nice idea but everybody here should know that still zoom lens doesn't handle a focus during zoom like a cine lens.

Sanjin,

Yes, everyone should understand this. It is essential to know.

However, when Birger introduces zoom control, it will open the door to zoom / focus compensation, especially with an autofocus. If the zoom / focus characteristics of the lens could be mapped, you could have the electronics of the mount compensate the focus to the focal length and focus distance of the zoom action. The still lens would then behave like a true cinema, ENG, or studio zoom.

By the way, I did a still shoot the other day with a fast moving object (road biker) where I followed the subject along a trajectory that was diagonal to me. I set the camera to continuous focus and held the shutter button halfway down to make sure it was constantly engaged. Then I tracked the subject. The focus held all the way through the shot with no visible stepping. I don't know why the smart electronics of the Birger (or the mount in this thread) couldn't be used to achieve an autofocus for such situations.

I'm shooting at the world famous Miller track soon. I would *love* to have autofocus or focus assist for that shoot.

-Thor

[Sanjin Jukic]

I believe they were made especially for Leni Riefenstahl, right?

I would say more for Olympics photo journalism of that time (1936) than for Leni (of course it was a part of Hitler's propaganda but there were other photographers involved too).


Sanjin,

Yes, everyone should understand this. It is essential to know.

However, when Birger introduces zoom control, it will open the door to zoom / focus compensation, especially with an autofocus. If the zoom / focus characteristics of the lens could be mapped, you could have the electronics of the mount compensate the focus to the focal length and focus distance of the zoom action. The still lens would then behave like a true cinema, ENG, or studio zoom.

By the way, I did a still shoot the other day with a fast moving object (road biker) where I followed the subject along a trajectory that was diagonal to me. I set the camera to continuous focus and held the shutter button halfway down to make sure it was constantly engaged. Then I tracked the subject. The focus held all the way through the shot with no visible stepping. I don't know why the smart electronics of the Birger (or the mount in this thread) couldn't be used to achieve an autofocus for such situations.

I'm shooting at the world famous Miller track soon. I would *love* to have autofocus or focus assist for that shoot.

-Thor

Thor,

Agree and we still have to wait and see how all the things are working with Birger on RED.

[Zakaree Sandberg]

maybe an option to pay RED to remove the ipin cable.. because i mean.. really, whats it doing there?
i dont care for it

[Giancarlo Bianchi]

Well, I believe in further models the Ipin cable should be held within the RED body side of the mount, then, there wouldnt be need to have PS+technic or other brands going back to the drawing board, and makes more sense.... I guess... Any toughts?

[C.H.Haskell]

Sanjin, awesome...congrats! I hope this all gets sorted out, this combo makes for one universal setup. How do you achieve back focus?

[Zack Birlew]

Looking at where the i-cable is on the mount, it's clear to see that it is poorly placed, especially for a camera designed to have swappable lens mounts.

[Thor Wixom]

Thor,

Agree and we still have to wait and see how all the things are working with Birger on RED.

Sanjin,

Maybe P+S Technik could take the Birger Brain and adapt it to their IMS Canon mount?

Since you have the P+S ear, will you ask them?

-Thor

[Sanjin Jukic]

Sanjin, awesome...congrats! I hope this all gets sorted out, this combo makes for one universal setup. How do you achieve back focus?

Today I dropped my RED in P+S Technik Headquartwrs in Ottobrunn/München to collimate for a back focus adjustment.

Also I did not meet the main P+S Technik guys because all of them are now on holidays.

Maybe I'm getting camera back tomorrow or at the beginning of next week.

I'll check it out about that tomorrow morning.


Sanjin,

Maybe P+S Technik could take the Birger Brain and adapt it to their IMS Canon mount?

Since you have the P+S ear, will you ask them?

-Thor

I'm still thinking about Birger: Should I stay or should I leave that option.

There are following two facts I am thinking about now: The first fact is that still photo zooms are not keeping focus during zoom. The second fact is that there are a lot of excellent and very fast manual still photo lenses that can be used with IMS on RED without a need of Birger.

In that case the question should be something like: If I have IMS, do I need Birger EF at all?

So I still did not make a final decision.

Also nobody knows till now about if it possible to get Birger on IMS.

[Roberto B]

I'm still thinking about Birger: Should I stay or should I leave that option.

There are following two facts I am thinking about now: The first fact is that still photo zooms are not keeping focus during zoom. The second fact is that there are a lot of excellent and very fast manual still photo lenses that can be used with IMS on RED without a need of Birger.

In that case the question should be something like: If I have IMS, do I need Birger EF at all?

So I still did not make a final decision.

Also nobody knows till now about if it possible to get Birger on IMS.you're being silly again sanjin.. apples to oranges.. IMS + Birger might be "that" combo.. and you our hero..

edit
btw, where are such pics from your spanish vacations?.. i mean, those ones..

[Thor Wixom]

Sanjin,

It really comes down to your style of shooting, and the types of shoots that you typically find yourself on.

I do a lot of shooting where it will be impracticle if not impossible to switch quickly between PL and Birger, unless the IMS is somehow incorporated.

I would be willing to pay for a one-off Birger / IMS solution. It may involve custom machining and thousands of dollars, but it would be worth it to me.

Rehousing the Birger Brain in an IMS Canon mount may be the ticket, but it may or may not be possible.

Thank you for keeping this issue in mind, and for asking P+S.

-Thor

[Sanjin Jukic]

you're being silly again sanjin.. apples to oranges.. IMS + Birger might be "that" combo.. and you our hero..

edit
btw, where are such pics from your spanish vacations?.. i mean, those ones..

Could be that I will stay to push development of Birger on RED.

But still nobody got Birger till today.

About Ibiza and Formentera nudity pics there are not allowed here at the forum.

In that case you get some celebrity photos from the same Illetes beach on Formentera below.

http://bp1.blogger.com/_41kHeNNpLVo/SJdIB-B9OyI/AAAAAAAAAL0/HlbrRUxN0vU/s400/marc+jacobs+kate+moss.jpg
Kate Moss and Marc Jacobs coming from Ibiza to Formentera's Illetes beach for fun.

LINK>>> (http://www.fashionologie.com/1837282)

[Roberto B]

Could be that I will stay to push development of Birger on RED.

But still nobody got Birger till today.outdated argument till tomorrow.. :) you as birger believer are so necessary as you have been so far.. as IMS believer.. after all, you are a believer.. except as far as macgregor's clips concern..


About Ibiza and Formentera nudity pics there are not allowed here at the forum.BS BS BS

http://wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=purity

did i type princeton?.. :innocent:

























edit
speaking about your famous pics.. i'm waiting for yours at my pm box.. no more no less.. :) no big feet this time right?.. :)

[Harky Jewett]

Arguments about the iPin cable aside, what about the back focus ring? Is it difficult to remove? And how do you adjust the back focus on the IMS mount?

I think it is a terrific, and affordable, product that many many people (including myself) will want, but there are just too many questions at the moment.

It is clearly in P+S Technik's interest to work this out with Red. I hope they do.

[Michael Hastings]

I would be willing to pay for a one-off Birger / IMS solution. It may involve custom machining and thousands of dollars, but it would be worth it to me.

-Thor

AT some point financially it might be more profitable just to buy a second REDONE body.

[cckid]

Anyone from Red,

What is the warranty status of this mount? I really want to get one of these IMS mounts coz it seems like a great piece of equipment that fits red philosophy perfectly and also my budget - renting pl lenses and owning a great selection of nikon lenses...but still can't imagine myself voiding the warranty after paying all that pesos for a camera...

[Thor Wixom]

AT some point financially it might be more profitable just to buy a second REDONE body.

The last I checked, the realistic wait list is still 6 months to 1 year for a new Red One body.

Plus, a Red One body by itself doesn't solve the problem. The point is to be able to switch between lenses just as quickly as you would on a DSLR. Think reality TV. For it to be that quick, I'd have to buy a body *and* the other $15000 worth of kit to have 2 fully functioning Red systems... one with the Birger Mount, one with the IMS mount. Then it would be as quick. That's going to be over $30k by the time I'm done.

Versus $3-5k for custom machining.

-Thor

[Thor Wixom]

And how do you adjust the back focus on the IMS mount?

Shims. But once it's locked in, it's supposedly REALLY locked in, for all mounts across the IMS system.

-Thor

[Roberto B]

AT some point financially it might be more profitable just to buy a second REDONE body.quote of the month.. :)

[Mike Prevette]

Shims. But once it's locked in, it's supposedly REALLY locked in, for all mounts across the IMS system.

-Thor


{EDIT: I don't disagree with shims. I disagree with having an extra mounting surface}
Which is physically impossible if you think about how the mount works. You have FOUR removable possibly variable surfaces now as apposed to TWO with a standard PL mount. There is no way in hell they will maintain over heavy use.

This thing has no place on pro-shoots or rental bodies, no matter how cool it is.

IMHO of course.

[Zakaree Sandberg]

Which is physically impossible if you think about how the mount works. You have FOUR removable possibly variable surfaces now as apposed to TWO with a standard PL mount. There is no way in hell they will maintain over heavy use.

This thing has no place on pro-shoots or rental bodies, no matter how cool it is.

IMHO of course.

I disagree.. but not with your honest opinion:)
just with it not having a place on pro-shoots.

Shims have a home in all film cameras.
The backfocus is checked on every prep floor.
So really, there is nothing new here in that regards... Its just not as "EASY" to correct the backfocus unless your use to using shims.

Right now.. there are ZERO options (other than ims) to throw panny glass on red unless you have a custom mount..
there is ZERO chance of quickly changing from a zeiss zf to a zeiss Master.
so this is a very professional tool imho.

I believe the shims take place in the individual mounts (not the actual red attatched ims)

[Zakaree Sandberg]

and holy crap.. just realized i broke the 1000 post mark a couple posts ago. WOOO HOOO

[Mike Prevette]

Oh I wasn't having an issue with shims. I totally agree with shims, but that isn't all there is to the IMS mount. It has a bayonet mount system to seat the universal mounts to the camera. That doubles the chances of mounting error. Shims are not the problem, it's having 4 mounting surfaces that have to be perfect that's the problem. Not a microscopic piece of schmutz between them is going to be damn near impossible in field use, especially if you swap mounts in the field and not before the prep.

[Zakaree Sandberg]

i see what your saying

[Martin Weiss]

I am no lens technician, I like the flexibility this mount promises and find p+s's track record (and Academy award) reassuring. Will be very interesting to see/hear how the ims performs in real world useage.

[Sanjin Jukic]

I've just got back from München-Ottobrunn wherea is P+S Technik headquarters.

There my IMS on RED was collimated.

Now it is a night with moon light here in Vienna and I took my longest zoom Sigma 50-500mm F4.0-6.3 APO + 2x extender that alltogether becomes 100-1000mm F8 with Canon EF mount.

Here below are the results.

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/IMS_REDSigma100-1000mm.jpg
Sigma 50-500mm F4-63 APO DG + 2x extender = 100-1000mm F8 with IMS on RED.

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/IMS_RED_MOON_Sigma50-500_10extn2.jpg
Moon, Vienna 23:31 PM, Thursday August 14, 2008.
Metadata: ISO 250. Kelvin 4344. Without any CC.

MOON 2K h264 video for download 11.5 MB (click to download)>>> (http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/IMS_MOON_Sigma100-1000H264.mov)

[Martin Weiss]

Why did you photoshop the lens support away?

[Pawel Achtel]

I've just got back from München-Ottobrunn wherea is P+S Technik headquarters.

There my IMS on RED was collimated.

Now it is a night with moon light here in Vienna and I took my longest zoom Sigma 50-500mm F4-63 APO + 2x extender that alltogether becomes 100-1000mm F8 with Canon EF mount.

Here below are the results.


Very nice.

Edit: How do you adjust critical focus on the damn thing? From the video I can see that Vinten head is not doing too well, does it?

[Evin Grant]

P+S really do know what they're doing. I doubt they'd make or market this mount if they didn't feel it was capable of professional quality results, dayin and day out. The PL mount has proven to be a very robust interface and I'm sure with a small about of care and attention to detail (dirt/dust) successful mount changing can be done at will when shooting. I'm certainly considering this as soon as Red gives it the thumbs up. Then again, my warranty is up in on Dec. 31st anyway.

[Steve Gal]

I have been renting the PS Technik mini 35 adapters for a few years now and they have the IMS system. I cannot believe how they hold up. I have not had any depth issues with any of them and my mini 35's go out every week.

[Zakaree Sandberg]

this mount is a no-brainer.
its a must have option imho

[Tico Llaurador]

this mount is a no-brainer.
its a must have option imho

Agreed. And I would have it already, if it were not for the i-cable brouhaha.

[Dustin Cross]

It seems like P&S should be able to put one of these little receivers for the i-cable connector on the back of their mount so it lines up with the hole in the Red body. It doesn't need any wires in it, just a place to attach the cable and keep it from getting lost in the body.

I forget what this connector is called, but I am sure you can get this little plastic piece and glue it on the back of the IMS mount. You would need to cut a small hole in the shims. How hard would that be?

Red and IMS, please work something out about this mount. I really want to get one.


Mahalo,
Dusty

[M_Sanderson]

Okay so NOW i am confused,
Birger
IMS
ET
Alesniak
Who to go for, more importantly who can ship a red approved one by the end of september.
I am loving the potential of IMS, but will need Birgers controls for my EF's
Tricky one.
Dont want to have a red body without a mountable lens, pretty expensive doorstop.

[Martin Weiss]

Mizael,

Right now the only one approved is the Birger, but that one is not yet shipping.

The only one actually shipping is the IMS, but that voids your warranty.

The only one shipping and not voiding your warranty is the Red Nikon mount, and that one is only for Nikon and a dumb mount.

The Birger is supposed to start shipping next week, but then again that is pretty much what has been said since November or so.

So, welcome to the exciting world of third party mounts for the RED one ;)


++++


Third Man, wasnt it a bit scary to use such a long lens without support? (And you should have been here yesterday, we had a very pretty partial eclipse of the moon.)

[M_Sanderson]

Mizael,

Right now the only one approved is the Birger, but that one is not yet shipping.

The only one actually shipping is the IMS, but that voids your warranty.

The only one shipping and not voiding your warranty is the Red Nikon mount, and that one is only for Nikon and a dumb mount.

The Birger is supposed to start shipping next week, but then again that is pretty much what has been said since November or so.

So, welcome to the exciting world of third party mounts for the RED one ;)

Cheers Martin
Yes, must be very frustrating for you guys with cameras already, but no mount, I find it frustrating and I dont even have my camera yet.

[Martin Weiss]

I am actually in your shoes as well, my camera is not up before November.

But when I started researching mounts in May I got really excited by the Birger, and shortly after by the IMS. Now, there is just no telling which one will be a solution come November.

Of course, ET is said to be working on a smart mount, and they do have the benefit of doubt on their side, as they have consistently delivered quality, and service.

In some way I can count myself lucky that I have til November to decide...

[M_Sanderson]

Yeah I dont plan to get any PL lenses only EF. But I need to do alot of testing cause I want to use the red on a project from January or maybe earlier, So if I get my cam end of sept/oct, time is running out.

Has there been any news from ET? I heard they announced it ages ago but nothing since.

[Martin Weiss]

I have not heard anything officially from ET, only Jarred mentioned it once as an alternative to Birger.

[Sanjin Jukic]

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/IMS_Leica50mm1-4_01.jpg
IMAGE 1: IMS on RED: Leica Summicron-R 50mm f/1.4 at wide open, ISO 320, Output Gamma: RED Log.
Lighting: 3 bulbs (50w, deemed at 2/3) from celling to the glasses, one eco-light 11W from the floor to the background.

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/IMS_Leica50mm1-4_02.jpg
IMAGE 1: Fast and instant CC in Shake>TrueLight-FilmLight plug in>Kodak Vision Premier, Display: Rec 709, Colour Space: Log.

This should be a film print out simulation look (Kodak Vision Premier).

[M_Sanderson]

Looks good Sanjin,
What about the FD mount on IMS on RED is that possible?

[Sanjin Jukic]

I do have Canon FD lens mount for IMS on RED.

Maybe tomorrow I will have a look for one FD lens test (Angenieux zoom for Canon FD).

Stay tuned.

[Antoine Fabi]

Hi Sanjin,

I'd be EXTREMELY curious to hear about a Canon FD/Carl Zeiss comparo...

Some say the Zeiss would kick the FDs, ...others say the FD would easily equal the modern Zeiss ZF...

What do you think ?

thanks

Antoine

[Sanjin Jukic]

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/IMS_Leica50mm1-4_03.jpg
IMAGE 2: IMS on RED: Leica Summicron-R 50mm f/1.4 at wide open, ISO 500, Color Space: REDSpace, Output LUT/Gamma Space: RED Log.

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/IMS_Leica50mm1-4_04.jpg
IMAGE 2: Fast and instant CC in Shake>TrueLight-FilmLight plug in>Kodak Vision Premier, Display: Rec 709, Colour Space: Log.

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/IMS_Leica50mm1-4_05.jpg
IMAGE 3: IMS on RED: Leica Summicron-R 50mm f/1.4 at wide open, ISO 640, Color Space: REDSpace, Output LUT/Gamma Space: RED Log.

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/IMS_Leica50mm1-4_06.jpg
IMAGE 3: Fast and instant CC in Shake>TrueLight-FilmLight plug in>Kodak Vision Premier, Display: Rec 709, Colour Space: Log.



Hi Sanjin,

I'd be EXTREMELY curious to hear about a Canon FD/Carl Zeiss comparo...

Some say the Zeiss would kick the FDs, ...others say the FD would easily equal the modern Zeiss ZF...

What do you think ?

thanks

Antoine

Hi Antoine,

Difficult to say.

The fact is that FD glass is not in a production any more.

Zeiss ZF (Nikon F) and Zeiss Ikon (ZM) are all Made in Japan by Cosina.

Interesting thing is that Cosina also making lenses for Voigtländer that has lenses for Leica M and Nikon F mounts. BTW excellent lenses.

There is no such a set of still or cine lenses that is good or perfect in all focal lengths.

Thanks to IMS on RED you can make ZIG-ZAG between a different lens brands and a lens mounts to make your set the best as you can and of course affordable.

P.S. I'm talking here about manual lenses only (aperture and focus).

[Sanjin Jukic]

Some more pictures from today, Monday, August 18,2008.

The smallest and lightless (Weight: 200g) lens available in my collection

http://www3.secure-ssl-server.com/robertwhite/images/shop/images_products/1818.jpg
Voigtländer Ultron 40mm F2 SL II Aspherical Nikon F mount (http://www.robertwhite.co.uk/product.asp?P_ID=1818&PT_ID=435&P=Voigtlander-40/2-Ultron-SL-II-Aspherical)

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/IMS_Voigthleander40mmF2_01.jpg
IMS on RED: Voigtländer Ultron 40mm F2 SL II Aspherical at f/5.6, Vocas Lightweight MB, Formatt 4x4 Filters: ND 0.9, Circular Polarizer, ISO 320, No CC, Color and Output Space Rec709.

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/IMS_Voigthleander40mmF2_02.jpg
IMS on RED: Voigtländer Ultron 40mm F2 SL II Aspherical at f/4, Vocas Lightweight MB, Formatt 4x4 Filters: ND 0.9, Circular Polarizer, ISO 500, No CC, Color and Output Space Rec709.

[Antoine Fabi]

Sanjin,

Yeah...Lenses performance is one of the most complicated and subjective matter...really...

I'ts not only technical...I've seen MTF charts that gave substantial advantage to a lense, but the other looked better in real life...

Makes me think about the Leica/Zeiss perpetual comfrontation...
2 superb lense kits...quite different looks though...

thanks!

Antoine

[Sanjin Jukic]

Antoine,

you right.

Also I'm thinking about to get Canon FD 50mm/1.2 L.

http://www.imx.nl/photo/optics/optics/page81_files/page81_3.jpeg

"Some commentators called the Canon FD 1.2 aspherical the best standard lens in the world."LINK>>> (http://www.imx.nl/photo/optics/optics/page81.html)

[Antoine Fabi]

Sanjin,

I have one of these 50mm f1.2L bayonet and also a 55mm f1.2AL breech mount.
Both exellent and sharp from 1.8.
...and from f2.8...WOW

The 35mm f2, 28mm f2, and the 20mm f2.8 are really good.

the 80-200 f3.5L (although ugly as hell... looks like a bazooka) gives very sharp images.

Antoine

[Antoine Fabi]

...and if you want a superbly punchy image...the low priced 50mm f1.4 bayonet can give some razor sharp images too. Same brand, different look...bizarre...

[chuck colburn]

{EDIT: I don't disagree with shims. I disagree with having an extra mounting surface}
Which is physically impossible if you think about how the mount works. You have FOUR removable possibly variable surfaces now as apposed to TWO with a standard PL mount. There is no way in hell they will maintain over heavy use.

This thing has no place on pro-shoots or rental bodies, no matter how cool it is.

IMHO of course.

Hi Mike,

I disagree. Eclair was able to make a similar concept work just fine on their ACL series.

cheers,

[Harry Clark]

AND the NPR. And the CM-3 (shooting both 35 and 16mm with the same camera no less!)
Arrinik and others are correct. P+S is a fantastic company. I own Pro and Mini-35s, I've had SR1 magazines redone to SR3 with no way to tell that they are not factory. I am a little concerned that backfocus would be less adjustable with the IMS, but it very cool nonetheless. Might be a better rental-house system though, because then you'd have staff techs to shim for different mounts, etc.
The i-data link is a must for me, too.
We'll see how it plays out I guess.
Nice going Sanjin!
Cheers,
Harry

[Sanjin Jukic]

The Interchangeable Mount System will allow you to use:

- all available IMS Mounts from P+S Technik.

The following lens mounts can be used with the P+S Technik Interchangeable Mount System
on the RED camera: Arri PL Mount, Panavision Mount, BNC-R Mount, Professional F-Mount,
Nikon F-Mount, Canon EF-Mount, Canon FD-Mount, Contax Mount, Leica-R Mount and Leica-M Mount.

- optical viewfinder with PL mount (coming end of this year)

- Field Collimator (coming end of this year)

The best mount system ever.

Just making RED camera more affordable then before.

Should be offered as one of RED's built to order or something like this standard.

We should not forget that PL mount is just a part of overall 35mm cine or still image acquisition world.

The times, they are sure a-changing fast.

If RED want to be a leader or on the edge of digital cinema world IMS is must have.

[Roberto B]

hey sj.. can you get a 2nd mount free of charge?.. i promise.. me would try to do even better advertisement than you.. well, if this will be possible anyway.. :devil:

my best

[Sanjin Jukic]

FG,

my IMS mount is not just for free,

I just spent more about 2000 Euros for IMS mounts that I would like to get and work with.

But anyway you didn't get the point.

Only manual lenses working the best with 2K, 4K, 5K, 6K, RED, EPIC, DALSA, GENESIS, ARRI D-21, PHANTOM HD, SI-2K , what else...

B4... pretty Sony, Panasonic, like a stuff, low end HD, HDV, SD, DV, PAL, NTSC, etc... OLD, OLD, OLD, not interested in!

Electronics, I do not want to talk about it...

As we all know very well that there are no perfect electronics...

BTW., NASA knows the best....

Let's go back to ol' manual lens stuff.

Just my 2 cents or take it (or leave it) as you like it.

[Tico Llaurador]

I believe the IMS and the ViewFactor Studios Impero and Inclino combo is a match made in heaven.

Hard to beat.

[Sanjin Jukic]

I believe the IMS and the ViewFactor Studios Impero and Inclino combo is a match made in heaven.

Hard to beat.

Tico,

you've just took my words.

Would be a great combo.

[Eddie]

I find most of this old glass terribly overrated... especially when you are shooting raw. Back in the days shooting negative, colour-rendering and contrast was crucial, but now I just click on a mouse untill it sooths me. secondly I have often been let down by the coatings on "vintage" glass. And I don´t believe "vintage" is really the proper name for old glass. It sort of implies that a lense would age like wine... well, it doesn´t. It turns slowly into vinnegar
(which can be tasty in small doses)

I am afraid that many people might be disappointed if they expect great magic, from changing between the old 1936 zeiss, to a nice 500 mm sigma, and then putting a vietnam war 85mm nikon. More often than not this will just make you sit around afterworths, going over your footage forever, making small adjustments matching one shot to the next time and time again...

IMHO

[Harry Clark]

But having a SET of vintage lenses to bring some magic to your next party... that's fun.
Harry

[Roberto B]

Let's go back to ol' manual lens stuff.
loooooooool :turned:

[Emanuel A.]

I believe the IMS and the ViewFactor Studios Impero and Inclino combo is a match made in heaven.

Hard to beat.You're forgetting Birger...

[Sanjin Jukic]

You're forgetting Birger...

Emanuel,

Birger is like an eternal dream of Redusers.

Go back to reality.

Today Douglas Underdahl starting to ship the Nikon G/DX mount for RED (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=17820).

Amazing.

Also I asked him to make similar changes to my IMS-Nikon F 0n RED mount.

But anyway IMS still rocks and will remain as the best mount solution for RED.

Fast and easy swap between Canon EOS and PL lenses.

It was a very clear moon tonight in Vienna and not like a foggy moon in clouds a couple days ago.

Here we go:

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/IMS_Cooke25-250PL.jpg
Cooke 25-250mm Cine Varotal T3.9 IMS PL on RED mount.

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/IMS_MoonCookePL25-250mm.jpg
Cooke 25-250mm at approximately 220mm, T 11, ISO 250.

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/IMS_REDSigma100-1000mm.jpg
Sigma 50-500mm F4-6.3 APO DG + 2 x extender = 100-1000mm with IMS on RED.

http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/IMS_Sigma_Moon4.jpg
Moon Tuesday, 23:30 PM, Sigma 50-500mm F4-6.3 APO DG + 2 x extender = 100-1000mm at approximately 750mm with IMS Canon EOS on RED, ISO 125.

MOON 2K H264 shot with Sigma>>>Click to download>>> (http://homepage.mac.com/sanjinjukic/RED/IMS_Sigma_Moon4.mov)

[Jay A. Kelley]

Emanuel,

Birger is like an eternal dream of Redusers.

Go back to reality.
>>>[/URL][/B][/I][/U]

This statement was entirely uncalled for, and shows a lack of consideration and vision.. Something not compatible with those who own REDs.

Jay

[tony gardiner]

Im sorry if this has been covered, i could not find it in my looking around. With the IMS is there a backfocus function or is it a shim system?
Cheers
Tony Gardiner

[Tico Llaurador]

It's shimmed, Tony.

[Mike Prevette]

PLEASE start using some lens supports!

[mikeburton]

PLEASE start using some lens supports!

My thoughts exactly!!!

[Sanjin Jukic]

This statement was entirely uncalled for, and shows a lack of consideration and vision.. Something not compatible with those who own REDs.

Jay

Jay ,

I know it hurts, sounds like a bad joke but took Erik almost "forever" to finally ship one single mount to an ordinary "Birger EF mount reservation holder".

OK, I'll again keep a patience.

And I jut read that one guy has got and installed it:

LINK>>>Mark Crabtree>>> (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=272365&postcount=2871).

BRAVO Mark!

Finally!


PLEASE start using some lens supports!

I'll do it next time.

BTW, a bit rushing before I left to sleep.

[Sanjin Jukic]

Working to get Doug's Nikon G/DX on IMS Nikon F mount (Professional).

Also waiting for Birger EF and work to get it on IMS.

Then I will have the ultimate (mount) set up for RED!!! (as Doug wrote me on his email).

[Adam Clark]

wow... this looks like an awesome system. i sure hope the warranty stuff worked out with red.

[Antoine Fabi]

Working to get Doug's Nikon G/DX on IMS Nikon F mount (Professional).

Also waiting for Birger EF and work to get it on IMS.

Then I will have the ultimate (mount) set up for RED!!! (as Doug wrote me on his email).

Not a single doubt!

[Eddie]

Birger is like an eternal dream of Redusers.

Go back to reality.



You're just naive that Adobe can give you what you want :) ,
don't follow 'Kusta's' way anyway,
(not even Maradona's Church like hand of God approach) can help you :) :) :) .

your predictions are not really holding out that well sanjin, maybe its time to stop assuming you are right all the time...


I also enoyed this one


My RED life with IMS is beautiful!!!

Birger is a nice idea but everybody here should know that still zoom lens doesn't handle a focus during zoom like a cine lens.

If you need a professional zoom that get PL cine zooms.

and then he puts on the old banged up cooke 25-250 T4, the most heavy breathing lens in the industry, not even mentioning the CA.

anyway, its fine to promote your accesories, but stop putting other options down, just because they don´t fit in with your low-cost snobbish choices. A lot of people are quite happy that we get to use a PC, CS3, and electronic mounts controlling modern AF still lenses.

just saying

[Sanjin Jukic]

your predictions are not really holding out that well sanjin, maybe its time to stop assuming you are right all the time...


I also enoyed this one



and then he puts on the old banged up cooke 25-250 T4, the most heavy breathing lens in the industry, not even mentioning the CA.

anyway, its fine to promote your accesories, but stop putting other options down, just because they don´t fit in with your low-cost snobbish choices. A lot of people are quite happy that we get to use a PC, CS3, and electronic mounts controlling modern AF still lenses.

just saying

Why am I not surprised?

It's good to know that some people have enough time to make the tread analysis like this one above here on this forum.

Just curious :) .

[Eddie]

Why am I not surprised?

It's good to know that some people have enough time to make the tread analysis like this one above here on this forum.

Just curious :) .

hehe... your are right. Still a week or two before shipment arrives. However, sadly I will not have the time to make a post count of 2,857...

[Sanjin Jukic]

hehe... your are right. Still a week or two before shipment arrives. However, sadly I will not have the time to make a post count of 2,857...

Eddie,

However it's important that you have great understanding even if I sometime do not like it... :) .

[Alex Detig]

Any news about the IMS?