Build 17 features...

[Jannard]

I don't have a release date yet for the Beta version, but here are most of the features we have added and are testing now:

* Addition of 4K HD recording mode (3840 x 2160 pixels) 1 - 30 fps

* Addition of RAW exposure meter

* Addition of embedded audio to HD-SDI outputs.

* Full support for 16GB CF cards and RED-RAM drive

* Genlock (Tri-Level Sync) available when operating with OPEN GATE

* Change of name for Sensitivity parameter - ASA (now ISO)

* Change of name for GPI and USER KEY parameter - BURST -> TIMELAPSE

* Added USER 5 Key (located on RED-LCD)

* Added GPI trigger functions - Pre-Record, Shut Down, Play Clip, Next Clip

* Added USER KEY function - Ramp, Timelapse

* Added CLEAR LOOK function

* Added ability to disable GUI elements

* Changed method of writing camera LOG file

* Added warning screen to advise if media is removed without first Unmounting.

* Non-speed verified CF cards permitted to record at 2K RAW resolution.

Note: Non-speed verified CF cards is solely at end-user risk. RED makes no representations regarding maximum frame rate or immunity to dropped frames.

Jim

[Joseph Hutson]

Awesome!!! You never cease working. Thanks Jim.

[Ariana]

Yea! Audio over HDSDI!

[Joseph Hutson]

Yea! Audio over HDSDI!

That's what I saw.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Nice additions!

What is the CLEAR LOOK function? Does it have to do with clearing a loaded LUT / LOOK file or is it something else? Sorry if I'm being thick on this one.

[Mark Pugh]

Thank you Jim! - I'm just as excited about this now as build 16...
I'd been wondering about something the size of "$k HD" - will this mean reduced transcode times when going to 1920x1080? , and, more importantly, less chance of visible resizing artifacts if trying to go from a 2k down-res to 1080K, as sometimes may happen in the post process on tricky subject matter
I love the idea of framing for something that's 4x the resolution of 1920x1080 if that is the final delivery format, if it does help the transcoding process.

Any chance what I'm saying here is right?

(Along those lines, I'd like to also see a 1920x 1080 in-camera format, as I've had better results on the tricky shots with fine detail by cropping 1920x1080 from 2k original files, rather than scaling).


I won't be needing to buy the audio embedding cards for the Panasonic monitors - fantastic.

Thanks again

[Mark Pugh]

Are the new GPI trigger functions (thanks so much for these) available on both upper and lower ports?

[Marcus Struzina]

I don't want to sound ungrateful in the face of even more amazing features
but is there still any prospect for a 4520 x 1923 full sensor width 2.35 mode?

[dino g]

getting rid of gui for evf is great, thanks

[zak forrest]

Will there ever be a USER KEY for VARISPEED? This is the most desired feature for me..

[zak forrest]

Will the clip name / timecode be displayed on the 720 out with the EVF plugged in?

[david farland]

* 4K HD recording mode (3840 x 2160 pixels) 1 - 30 fps
* RAW exposure meter
* Embedded audio to HD-SDI outputs.
* different CF support
* other good things...

Jim, all especially nice...thank you!


I guess the addition of 4K HD @30 fps is if you're bound for HD then you've got the ability to shoot at 4K, scale to HD @ 30fps?

I hope this means you're close to 1080p monitoring...??

D

[Stuart English]

What is the CLEAR LOOK function? Does it have to do with clearing a loaded LUT / LOOK file or is it something else?

Yes that's exactly what it does.

[Stuart English]

Will the clip name / timecode be displayed on the 720 out with the EVF plugged in?

It already is.

The restriction comes when you have both a RED-EVF and a RED-LCD attached, in that case you won't get clip name / timecode on the 720p PVW outputs.

[Stuart English]

Are the new GPI trigger functions (thanks so much for these) available on both upper and lower ports?

Yes, these options are available on both ports.

[Stuart English]

...is there still any prospect for a 4520 x 1923 full sensor width 2.35 mode?

As previously announced this is being worked on.... but not ready for this build.

[Mark L. Pederson]

TC embedded in the SDI?

Clipname in userbits?

[Brandon Fraley]

can someone explain the 4k HD recording feature to me?

[Stuart English]

TC embedded in the SDI? Clipname in userbits?

Not at this time. But timecode is available via LEMO 5 pin, as with Build 16.

[Deanan]

can someone explain the 4k HD recording feature to me?

It's 4xHD(quadHD) so a 1/2 res proxy ends up exactly at 1920x1080.
Also, a full res debayer scaled down to 1920x1080 will use
a 2:1 scale which is generally better than an uneven scale.

[Stuart English]

As Deanan said, if you know that you are going to produce for 1080p, you can choose 4K HD which is 2 x that in both H and V.

So if you do in-camera 1080p playback, the FOV of the 1080p 4:4:4 or 4:2:2 output is exactly the same as that you framed for.

And / or use the _H Quicktime Reference files for 1080p native editing.

[Jason Wingrove]

Ok so translating into director speak, for those just wanting to cut/finish to HD just using proxies, use the (1080P) H Proxy and in camera I get normal 4K framing cropping?

Jas

_

[Brandon Fraley]

how does the 4xHD FOV compare to the native 4k? Is it the same or a crop?

[Stuart English]

how does the 4xHD FOV compare to the native 4k? Is it the same or a crop?

Its a slight crop - 3840 x 2160 pixels rather than 4096 x 2304

[Jason Wingrove]

Right so not quite 3k crop

[Mark L. Pederson]

Right so not quite 3k crop

just a million pixels -

[Deanan]

just a million pixels -

4k 16:9 = 22.1mm x 12.4mm
QuadHD = 20.7mm x 11.7mm
3k 16:9 = 16.6mm x 9.3mm

[Mark L. Pederson]

4k 16:9 = 22.1mm x 12.4mm
QuadHD = 20.7mm x 11.7mm
3k 16:9 = 16.6mm x 9.3mm

9,437,184 pixels vs 8,294,400 pixels vs 5,308,416 pixels

** I do think the 4K HD resolution is a great feature. Red has made me "pixel greedy" ....

[Dustin Cross]

Any chance we'll get the mentioned 4.5k 2.35 in build 17? I am really looking forward to that when you guys get to it.

Thanks,
Dusty

[Peter Majtan]

* Genlock (Tri-Level Sync) available when operating with OPEN GATE

Jim, does this mean that I can sync two cameras for stereo (3D) recording without the need for external timecode generator?

(where is the bloody "praying" or "begging" icon...)

[Shawn Booth]

4K HD (quadHD)..... that's nicccce....
Just gets better and better.....
Thank you.

[Antoine Fabi]

A direct link to Varispeed by user key would be fantastic.

Accessing varispeed via menus is a little long.
Would also be fantastic to fix in advance the specific resolution for varispeed.

Ex: Shoot 4K 24 fps RC36, hit the user key and bang...3K 60 fps RC28.

Dont know if it's possible...


Also... is the 4.5K option still on the work ?

thanks
Antoine

[Ivan G]

4520x2540 still being implement in build 17? Just curious as to what the max fps will be as well...

[Martin Weiss]

As to 4.5k questions, that one has already been answered in #16.

-----

Looking forward to the uncluttered viewfinder!

[Evin Grant]

A direct link to Varispeed by user key would be fantastic.

Accessing varispeed via menus is a little long.
Would also be fantastic to fix in advance the specific resolution for varispeed.

Ex: Shoot 4K 24 fps RC36, hit the user key and bang...3K 60 fps RC28.

Dont know if it's possible...


Also... is the 4.5K option still on the work ?

thanks
Antoine

You can pretty much do this using the EVF wheel right now.

[Damien Molineaux]

Great news, great features, it just keeps getting better.

I've just relaunched the thread about the subject, but I'll ask here also. Is flipping the image in the EVF (or LCD as some have requested), something being considered at RED ? My need for this is being a left eyed shooter, I like to shoot with my camera on my left shoulder, which is something I inquired about from the time I made my deposit at IBC 2006. There is no problem to attach the LCD or EVF on the right side, however it is quite unpractical to have the EVF the right side up as it is attached from its right side. Is this an option we may see in the future ?

Cheers,
Damien

[I Bloom]

Great news, great features, it just keeps getting better.

I've just relaunched the thread about the subject, but I'll ask here also. Is flipping the image in the EVF (or LCD as some have requested), something being considered at RED ? My need for this is being a left eyed shooter, I like to shoot with my camera on my left shoulder, which is something I inquired about from the time I made my deposit at IBC 2006. There is no problem to attach the LCD or EVF on the right side, however it is quite unpractical to have the EVF the right side up as it is attached from its right side. Is this an option we may see in the future ?

Cheers,
Damien

I can see lots of good reasons for this feature.

IBloom

[Robert Berger]

* Addition of 4K HD recording mode (3840 x 2160 pixels) 1 - 30 fps

* Addition of embedded audio to HD-SDI outputs.

* Full support for 16GB CF cards and RED-RAM drive

VERY GOOD NEWS!!
Robert

[Vigen Vartanov]

Good news. And what about Sleep Mode ?

[Stuart English]

The list of what's on the upgrade is in Jim's post at the beginning of this thread. :red_bandana:

However we do appreciate all the suggestions for further camera enhancements.

[Robert Berger]

I can see lots of good reasons for this feature.

IBloom

for the steady low mode i used the red upsite down. A good reason for this feature.

[zak forrest]

It already is.

The restriction comes when you have both a RED-EVF and a RED-LCD attached, in that case you won't get clip name / timecode on the 720p PVW outputs.

Hey Stuart,

I should have been more clear, that's what I meant. Will there ever be clip name info on the 720 preview when both LCD and EVF are attached?

I'm on a shoot right now and scripty is always yelling to ask the ac what the clipname is because it isn't showing up on the monitor, kind of a mild nuisance, wondering if it's an easy fix or not..

[zak forrest]

You can pretty much do this using the EVF wheel right now.

Need it for doing run and gun LCD stuff..

[Antoine Fabi]

You can pretty much do this using the EVF wheel right now.

Nope Evin,

You have first to go to system menu, change 4K RC36 to 3K RC28

...plus there are many circomstances we dont use the EVF

[nick allsop]

i agree with Zak. The one and only annoyance i had on a recent drama shoot was the fact that with both the lcd and evf running there was no clip name info in the directors monitor for continuety. This meant that we had to take notes of which slates went with each clip number and make sure that they synced up with hers after each set up. the problem would be that often the rec button would get pressed accidentally so we would call that a test. i really want to this info on the directors monitor you would really please a lot of camera assistants and script supervisors/ continuety. try telling the focus puller or grip that they can't use the Lcd because continuety needs the clip numbers and you would look like an idiot.
also the frame markings would save you taping up the monitor. And it doesn't hurt to have an extra pair of eyes to know when you are recording. with out a beep the evf tally light was a big help on this job .

[Shawn Nelson]

Wow!! This is awesome, I've ben wanting audio over HD-SDI now!

[Kevin Wild]

Excellent news on the 4k HD mode. For people that are going to either use the proxies as finals or use Red Rushes as final file...this is great.

[Gunleik Groven]

WOW, so what's 18 like?????


These are cool features.

G

[Obin Olson]

clip name on monitor if you can please ;)

[B. Digital]

as already said before


clip name info on preview monitor with both LCD and EVF plugged in please.

+

dont make the color seting afect the monitor output (false color, edge highlight etc)

[Michael Thornton]

Added ability to disable GUI elements


It would be really nice to be able to pick your combo to display your GUI.

Since we can only pick two, let's do this.

Let's switch from auto to manual.

LCD+EVF

or

LCD+SDI

This would solved the Scripts Supervisor complaints issues.

They are loud.

Tek

[Mick van Rossum, NSC]

dont make the color seting afect the monitor output (false color, edge highlight etc)[/QUOTE]

That will never happen, there is only one graphic board output on Red one, so one will always see the same image on monitor and EVF/LCD. Epic will solve that.

[Michael Thornton]

That will never happen, there is only one graphic board output on Red one, so one will always see the same image on monitor and EVF/LCD. Epic will solve that.

RED already do this automatically.

Base on first two LCD+EVF if EVF not present then SDI.

Why can't they do it manually?

I am not talking full GUI, just Reel names and time codes, Frame Guides, and Recording indicators.

That would be really nice.

Tek

[cinemano]

can someone explain to me the 4K HD? thanks :)

[Philip Powell]

* Added USER KEY function - Ramp, Timelapse



Does this mean that we will be able to trigger a ramp frame rate change by hitting a user key then? And not only through GPI trigger?

[Damien Molineaux]

can someone explain to me the 4K HD? thanks :)

See post #20 :


It's 4xHD(quadHD) so a 1/2 res proxy ends up exactly at 1920x1080.
Also, a full res debayer scaled down to 1920x1080 will use
a 2:1 scale which is generally better than an uneven scale.

I'll add that this allows you to use the File & Transfer plugin in FCP and obtain HD material, since the plugin does 1/2 res only.

Cheers,
Damien

[Blair S. Paulsen]

I have high hopes for the quad HD mode (3840 by 2160), it should provide cleaner scaling and faster workflows for 1080P finishes - thank you Red Team. In some situations the FOV change will be an issue but its hard to get upset about the loss in pixel count between 4K HD and 4K 16:9 when its your option anyway.

I am a big proponent of matching production parameters to planned deliverables and budget/time realities. The 4K HD mode will speed acceptance of "the RED way" into many genres still unable or unwilling to think of the files coming out of the electronic camera on their set as DCN (Digital Camera Negative) - to them its HD. We know its still oversampled (even with the Bayer pattern factor you are still miles ahead of a 1080 native device), the DP knows he can use the storytelling advantages of 35mm-ish DOF control and all the Cine style production techniques/aks his crews are proficient with, etc. Nobody has to explain framing particulars to clients. Post houses are a step closer to their comfort zone. IMHO the availability of this 4K HD mode will accelerate RED acceptance into more of the motion media community.

Can't wait to try the embedded audio via HD-SDI into my AJA io/HD box at video village. Anyone like the idea of single cable 1080P playback with synch audio from camera... :greedy:

[SF Geek]

My camera has been working great. The only issues are boot time and initializing which AD's just love to shout out loud and the fact that I can never run my LCD and EVF at the same time because scripty needs the info on the director's monitor. Please make the info switchable. I don't need the timecode info on the EVF or LCD in this case.

[Fernando Huszar]

It already is.

The restriction comes when you have both a RED-EVF and a RED-LCD attached, in that case you won't get clip name / timecode on the 720p PVW outputs.

Stuart,
Do you mean that in B17 we'll be able to send frame markers from LCD to the HD-SDI 720p preview output?

[eyemark]

would love to have adjustable frame lines, make a box or splitscreen, shoot
3k with S 16 lenses and make my own 16:9 setting etc

Mark

[peter@axisfilms]

a feature which seems to be overlooked (I'm not sure about build 16, so correct me if I'm wrong), would be to disable the buttons on the EVF when the camera is put into record, so when the operator grabs the EVF he/she doesn't accidently put the EVF/LCD/Monitor Chain into false color, for example, or zoom into the image. Very frustrating when you're shooting a dramatic piece....

[Craig Meadows]

I have high hopes for the quad HD mode (3840 by 2160), it should provide cleaner scaling and faster workflows for 1080P finishes - thank you Red Team. In some situations the FOV change will be an issue but its hard to get upset about the loss in pixel count between 4K HD and 4K 16:9 when its your option anyway.

I am a big proponent of matching production parameters to planned deliverables and budget/time realities. The 4K HD mode will speed acceptance of "the RED way" into many genres still unable or unwilling to think of the files coming out of the electronic camera on their set as DCN (Digital Camera Negative) - to them its HD. We know its still oversampled (even with the Bayer pattern factor you are still miles ahead of a 1080 native device), the DP knows he can use the storytelling advantages of 35mm-ish DOF control and all the Cine style production techniques/aks his crews are proficient with, etc. Nobody has to explain framing particulars to clients. Post houses are a step closer to their comfort zone. IMHO the availability of this 4K HD mode will accelerate RED acceptance into more of the motion media community.

Can't wait to try the embedded audio via HD-SDI into my AJA io/HD box at video village. Anyone like the idea of single cable 1080P playback with synch audio from camera... :greedy:


Ditto - great post.

[REDFEAT]

The GPI Pre-record will be an incredible tool!

Will the GPI shutdown also work to power up the camera?

[Brian Broz]

Not being able to run the LCD + EVF plus TC out (for scripty) via HDSDI/HDMI is desperately needed. If we could get a clip # out as well that would be fantastic, but not essential.

[Alex Carr]

i agree with Zak. The one and only annoyance i had on a recent drama shoot was the fact that with both the lcd and evf running there was no clip name info in the directors monitor for continuety. This meant that we had to take notes of which slates went with each clip number and make sure that they synced up with hers after each set up. .

I fixed this problem by keeping a Video Log, as should it be required by a Digital Asset Manager, It is more effective because she can come to the DAM between setups and look at the log to see where reels were re-loaded and if her stuff matches. (EVERYTHING IS ALWAYS IN PENCIL)It unties that bond you are talking about and frees camera dept to bump the record button whenever they feel like getting a Croatian DP in the shot. Then She never really needs to know clip name, or ever really worry about it. And that is important because usually a scripty has many more important things to do or people to talk to.

Now here is the real key to the video log, The Assistant Editor...

Instead of loading a shot and finding the Scene / Take by scrubbing the clip you can just go by the Log! Ok Reel: 49 Scene / Take: 213B-tk1 FileNAME: A048_C001... The Editor has blessed me for this little extra umph! Plus Production knows what we filmed at the end of the day.

REEL SCENE-TAKE FILENAME

001 34-tk1 A049_C001_080812
x x x x

TOTAL SIZE of REEL: 7.31GB

[Alex Carr]

Here is what I mean: Very Simple, but extremely effective

[Mark Pedersen]

It's 4xHD(quadHD) so a 1/2 res proxy ends up exactly at 1920x1080.
Also, a full res debayer scaled down to 1920x1080 will use
a 2:1 scale which is generally better than an uneven scale.

This is AWESOME. Great feature.

Thanks!

M

[Shawn Booth]

There are also these:
http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/2259_1218666200.zip

[Pawel Achtel]

The GPI Pre-record will be an incredible tool!

Will the GPI shutdown also work to power up the camera?

I would kill to have this feature :innocent: I am currently in a process of making a solenoid to power the camera up remotely....

[Stuart English]

Will the GPI shutdown also work to power up the camera?

Sorry, power down only.

[Steve Freebairn]

When you shoot 3840x2160 is it using the full super 35 sensor?

[Stuart English]

When you shoot 3840x2160 is it using the full super 35 sensor?

By definition no, the full sensor would be around 4480 pixels wide, 4K is 4096, and this is 3840.

However, lets turn that statement around: does shooting in 3840 x 2160 give me 35 mm DOF like I would see shooting film - answer yes it would.

[Steve Freebairn]

By definition no, the full sensor would be around 4480 pixels wide, 4K is 4096, and this is 3840.

However, lets turn that statement around: does shooting in 3840 x 2160 give me 35 mm DOF like I would see shooting film - answer yes it would.

Thanks for the quick answer, I just want to make sure I understand what is going on for when the DP is saying that his 18mm no longer looks like an 18mm.

[Deanan]

Thanks for the quick answer, I just want to make sure I understand what is going on for when the DP is saying that his 18mm no longer looks like an 18mm.

That then leads to the next question... which film format is he referring to for FOV? Academy, Super35, etc? And what crop out of that?

4096 is 22.12mm wide
3840 is 20.736mm wide

4096 is closer to academy width and 3840 is a little more than a millimeter smaller on the width.

[Joe G.]

Previously I requested a 1 to 1 viewing option with a small navigator window that you can move around the sensor, for pulling focus.

Add to that the option for a second view simultaneously of the full sensor. That way you can have 2 monitors, one for the framing as usual, and one for just the focus puller.

This would be useful on a number of occasions, and would make achieving perfect focus a lot quicker and easier. At this point it doesn't seem that the focus is guaranteed to be perfect, since monitoring of the actual 4k view is impossible. Several people have mentioned how the 720p looks sharp, yet the 4k was not. These don't sound like outrageous engineering feats. Just a little creative programming.

[Michael Brennan]

I would kill to have this feature :innocent: I am currently in a process of making a solenoid to power the camera up remotely....


Following on GPI thread, will it be possible to roll a previous take via GPI?

Without a basic remote for the record section of the camera, we are stuggling in gimbal and remote head use by inability to check back takes on the fly.


Mike Brennan

[Stuart English]

Following on GPI thread, will it be possible to roll a previous take via GPI?

Actually that function already exists on the AUX / 232 (LEMO 10 pin) connector.

Its the pins called SW1 and SW2, these are additional GPI's - but fixed function - one initiates a record, the other last record clip playback.

[Tai Wah Lim]

Can't wait to try the embedded audio via HD-SDI into my AJA io/HD box at video village. Anyone like the idea of single cable 1080P playback with synch audio from camera... :greedy:

Blair, any idea of getting TC from the lemo to the AJA io/HD -lim

[Denis Buhot]

I know...not yet, no promise.. Do you Red people still consider it ? I've just received my RED... not really lightweight for field work, but it's the price I was willing to pay for image quality .... Can't test it yet... evf and drive missing, but one thing missing anyway... badly... : sleep mode...

May I keep hope and faith, now build 16 is here :biggrin: ?

[Russ Fill]

Any chance of getting the camera to ramp back and forth from say 10fps to 50fps and back again everytime you push the external switch? That would create some really good effects that I use in film with a 435 all the time.

[Stuart English]

Any chance of getting the camera to ramp back and forth from say 10fps to 50fps and back again everytime you push the external switch? That would create some really good effects that I use in film with a 435 all the time.


That's a good idea Russ. No, we haven't consider that, but it'd probably be relatively easy to do... Is there a wait time after reaching max fps before ramping back down?

[Chris Reynolds]

It would be good to do it two ways. Set - where the ramp go 50fps for a set amount of seconds and them back to 10fps until the trigger is pressed again. Or Triggered - where the ramp goes to 50fps until the trigger is pressed again and it returns 10fps until the trigger is pressed again and so on.

Cheers, Chris

[Thom Steinhoff]

It would be good to do it two ways. Set - where the ramp go 50fps for a set amount of seconds and them back to 10fps until the trigger is pressed again. Or Triggered - where the ramp goes to 50fps until the trigger is pressed again and it returns 10fps until the trigger is pressed again and so on.

Cheers, Chris

I could see another option where it waits at 10fps until you press, and hold the button and then it ramps to 50fps and stays there as long as the button is pressed. Once the button is released it ramps back down. That way you could continually press and ramp.

Of course, I'll also bring up the standard "of course it would be better to shoot it all at 50fps and ramp via software" just to keep 2 or 3 followup posts from hitting... :)

[Brook Willard]

I haven't read through this entire thread so I'm not sure if it's been mentioned, but I'd love to be able to disable timecode output. It's a bummer to have the camera rejam a Lockit box right after I plug it in with a 5-pin to 5-pin Lemo cable.

[Peter Majtan]

That's a good idea Russ. No, we haven't consider that, but it'd probably be relatively easy to do... Is there a wait time after reaching max fps before ramping back down?

Stu, maybe You should visit more often ScarletUser - we have discussed this over there not long ago... :)

I think the simplest use would be to set in a menu start and end ramp speed with time to reach the change (as it is right now). The GPI trigger will change from starting ramp to the end in the given time and stay there. New GPI trigger will start the ramp in reverse. And so on and so forth...

Just my two pesos... :)

[Cüneyt Kaya]

That's a good idea Russ. No, we haven't consider that, but it'd probably be relatively easy to do... Is there a wait time after reaching max fps before ramping back down?

could it be possible to use the viewfactor inclino to do realtime down and upramping?

[Mark L. Pederson]

I haven't read through this entire thread so I'm not sure if it's been mentioned, but I'd love to be able to disable timecode output. It's a bummer to have the camera rejam a Lockit box right after I plug it in with a 5-pin to 5-pin Lemo cable.

The denecke does this automatically. Once its jammed, it will ignore incoming timecode until it (the deneke) is power is cycled.

[Jeff Barklage]

One thing I'd like to see in some future 'build' would be a video-out/viewfinder "grid-pattern" that could be generated in the frame guide menu.
I have this same thing on my Arri's CEI Color-V video tap and its GREAT to help aligning objects in a shot, especially like product & table-top shooting. Should be fairly east software work...any thoughts on this? Shot a PAMPERS spot today with product shots on my RED and really could have used this option...the director even commented that he thought I would have something like this on the RED as on my film cameras. This new technology needs to keep up with the old :-)

[Jannard]

Good suggestion...

Jim

[Gianny Trutmann]

Another good Idea, would be a big waveform with values over the image, not just the little one that is hard to judge by. It would be great to get a display box like the panasonic monitors or other competitors that give you the full graph.

[Gianny Trutmann]

Its a request I have heard from many DP and shooters that have used my camera

[SF Geek]

Will we be able to upload RLX files made in Red Alert to the camera?

[Vico Martin]

I supose someone said but:

- Please a on/off menus and info on video out.
- A biger Luma Historiogram.
- Proxis that works fine (like build 15)
- TC in.
- A full configurator aplication in mac/pc cpu-Flash-Red

... may be... wings :sarcasm:

[Vico Martin]

opps..

may be...

- a correct format video reproduction (without crop, please)

[michael zaletel]

Special Request: Ability to block out all but a given aspect ratio in the EVF, LCD, HDMI out. In other words, instead of relying upon grayed out areas or guidelines, would be nice to be able to hit a "preset" button to turn on and off all but the intended final field of view.

-shooter

[Karl H]

thumbnails for playback of clips. There must be another way of reviewing a clip from earlier in the day than pushing the rewind button 75 times (and prob causing a crash in the process).

[Jeff Brown]

OK thumbnails would be great but if that's not possible then what about just seeing the mag contents (like when you dump). Having access to the file list and maybe the clip size would be easier to navigate via the joystick and then press enter to play..... (Clip size would help you distinguish real takes from dud clips).

Jeff Brown
RED708 "Ruby"

[Mike Burke]

thumbnails for playback of clips. There must be another way of reviewing a clip from earlier in the day than pushing the rewind button 75 times (and prob causing a crash in the process).

Amen.
At the very least, a way to instantly get to the beginning of the list.

[tror53]

thumbnails for playback of clips. There must be another way of reviewing a clip from earlier in the day than pushing the rewind button 75 times (and prob causing a crash in the process).

YES PLEASE!

[Jeremy Newmark]

I second the larger waveform and have mentioned it a few times before. Please give us one that takes up the whole screen and has indication marks on the sides. The current incarnation is so squished that it is pointless in my mind. The histograms are wonderful, but a good waveform gives you so much more detailed info about a frame. The information is already in there, just make it bigger so that it's in a useful form. We don't need image overlay, toggling back and forth between image and waveform works fine for me. Maybe this is asking too much, but what would be even better would be able to have the image in the EVF while simultaneously having a full frame waveform on the LCD.

[brandon thomas]

uploading looks to camera!
ability to display timecode burn in on screen on the hdsdi or preview output

[Steve Freebairn]

I'd love to see the stoplights and/or histogram on the HD-SDI out.


* Full support for 16GB CF cards and RED-RAM drive

Is there a hidden statement in this line? What isn't supported now that will be :)

[pirata]

A great update would be the ability to get a preview of the real 4k image, pixel to pixel at native RAW resolution. This would make a massive difference with this camera for high end work or cinema release work. More than any of the features here discussed.

RED cameras have a very difficult and temperamental back focus issue, it is so obvious.. How many cameras I've handled the back focus is feet off.. And trying to get it right is near impossible. Long lenses are ok and then wide angles are off, inexplicable... At the moment there is no way to verify whether the back focus of the camera is dead on and the 4k image recorded is truly sharp unless exporting a 4k tiff and open in RED cine. This is too slow. The HD/SDI outputs aren't really true SDI outputs and as they are a scaled down preview of the 4K RAW an image might look sharp through the preview HD/SDI when it might and probably will be soft...

There should be a feature that would allow us to see the native 4k image and with the wheel/ joystick at the back of the camera we should be able to move over the image to selected areas of interest to confirm sharpness... That would be a feature worth money for. I would even pay for such upgrade...

That and a whole new PL mount would be great. A mount that doesn't unsettle and shifts its angle when you unscrew it, even a little bit.. Have you ever tried to keep the back focus right as you tighten the screws?... It is impossible!

[Mark Pugh]

As previously announced this is being worked on.... but not ready for this build.

I just did a calculation - image area would increase by about 24%.
about 8.7 M pixels against 7 M Pixels for 4K 2.4:1
Wow.

[Charles Angus]

RED cameras have a very difficult and temperamental back focus issue, it is so obvious.. How many cameras I've handled the back focus is feet off.. And trying to get it right is near impossible. Long lenses are ok and then wide angles are off, inexplicable... At the moment there is no way to verify whether the back focus of the camera is dead on and the 4k image recorded is truly sharp unless exporting a 4k tiff and open in RED cine.

Long lenses have more depth of focus (depth of field behind the lens) and are therefore much more tolerant of back focus issues. Easily explicable, I would say.

[M_Sanderson]

I know...not yet, no promise.. Do you Red people still consider it ? I've just received my RED... not really lightweight for field work, but it's the price I was willing to pay for image quality .... Can't test it yet... evf and drive missing, but one thing missing anyway... badly... : sleep mode...

May I keep hope and faith, now build 16 is here :biggrin: ?
Just before Build 16 more people were asking for this!!!!
Everyone must have got swap packs!

[Peter Majtan]

One thing (that should be easy) - when in the timelapse mode, could the display show the actual number of frames captured instead of the timecode? It will be nice to know after babysitting the redhead for couple of hours how many frames I have "in the pocket". I know I could calculate it theoretically, but direct camera feedback would be nice... :)

I hope I am not asking too much...

Thanks for all the effort!

Cheers

Peter

[Birns and Sawyer]

Long lenses have more depth of focus (depth of field behind the lens) and are therefore much more tolerant of back focus issues. Easily explicable, I would say.

Was thinking the same thing. Check back focus on an 18mm or so, at least 3 times the minimum focus and out, and you should be on good shape if you have a big enough monitor to see.

[Conrad Hunziker]

One thing (that should be easy) - when in the timelapse mode, could the display show the actual number of frames captured instead of the timecode? It will be nice to know after babysitting the redhead for couple of hours how many frames I have "in the pocket". I know I could calculate it theoretically, but direct camera feedback would be nice... :)
Peter

You could do that now- Just change the displayed TC to edgecode. Note the starting TC (which will be 1:00:00:00 on a new reel) and count up.

[Peter Majtan]

But You still need to count - why the camera can't do it for You? It should be a simply fix... :)

[Simen]

Hi Jim,

I need the ability to continually control the RED’s shutter speed and the timing of the shutter (ramping the camera speed on the fly) with Mark Roberts Motion Control’s Modula Rig and Flair software, for repeat passes.

I don’t know if the new Genlock will be a way to control the shutter. As far as I understand this is a video signal that will only make the RED synchronize to standard, locked speed video rates.

Managing Director at Mark Roberts Motion Control, Assaff Rawner (assaff@mrmoco.com) says many want to use RED with their equipment, and is frustrated nothing is happening to RED’s interface in this regard. :mellow:

Like for this MoCo guy:

... I shoot film all the time, tomorrow Omega watches for the Quantum of Solace trailler. Until there is a shutter pulse in RED I could not use it at all for the application in hand. ...
, RED is no option.

I don’t know the details needed here, so I included Mr. Rawner’s email – hoping you will please also prioritize these features among all the other things we are so happy you make happen, Jim :wink:

Thanks from soon Happy Simen :)

[Stuart English]

Its not that you can't control the shutter speed / timing, tell the camera to record the next frame, get the camera to tell you it has recorded the next frame / start or stop a record / start a variable speed frame ramp. It does all those.

Its the fact that you can't give the camera a random fps pulse to track, and get a real shutter open / closed pulse back like you can on a film camera. That's just a difference between electronic and mechanical cameras.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Stuart, at the risk of opening a can of worms, couldn't such pulse information be accepted by the camera and theoretically simulated or generated and sent back? Perhaps using the timecode data connector or the onboard USB at some point?

[Stuart English]

Stuart, at the risk of opening a can of worms, couldn't such pulse information be accepted by the camera and theoretically simulated or generated and sent back?

The issue is latency Jeff. On a film camera you are interfacing to a motor, but in this aspect (remote control) the RED-ONE is a computer.

Therefore a tricky problem to solve. The alternative is to use the functions the camera does provide to you.

[Cail Young]

get the camera to tell you it has recorded the next frame

What we really need is this at all framerates.

Then mocon can work under and overcranked.

[Simen]

1) As long as the camera software can define when the camera should start and stop using the feed from the chip to make a frame - there must be a way to sneak in some code lines that output a shutter open / closed pulse like you can on a film camera.

2) As a constant analog signal stream is fed from the chip there should theoretically be easier than on a mechanical film camera to externally control (what part of this feed should define) the start and stop of a frame.

Even with a very fast moving MoCo rig you should be able to more accurately (than on a mechanical film camera) time the shutter to open and close at the exact same places in a multi pass shot. When externally controlling both the start and stop of a frame the different passes can be shot with different speed/ramping, and even the smear from the motion blur will look exactly the same on the corresponding frames.

Advanced MoCo will be another area where visual fx will excel when using the digital RED cameras – and not like now, were RED can’t be used.

Hope this will inspire some development, even if it touches deep into the logic of the camera software.

Simen:)

[Simen]

…and while we are talking shutter and synchronization…

A) When we need a strobe flash to help lighting fast moving objects in close ups (and other situations), it would be nice with a pulse from the camera that fires the flash when the digital “shutter” is fully open. Preferably able to adjustable when the pulse is given, or at least before the “shutter” closes, so we get the motion blur trails after the moving objects.

B) I guess this “shutter” pulse could also be forwarded to other equipment that will delay externally controlled flashes from firing until the RED’s “shutter” is fully open – to prevent RED recordings I have seen, where only some upper or lower parts of the frames are lit by the flashes, like in this video: http://web.mac.com/fini1/iWeb/Site%20135/4k%20Red%20Camera.html

Here I understand there might be a problem tapping the chip exactly when a flash is fired 1/10 000 nd of a second :umm:

Simen ;)

[assaffr]

Hello Stuart,
This is Assaff Rawner. Just to clarify:
(A) the RED camera has the function to trigger the recording of a single frame but this cannot be used as it has been designed for low FPS speeds (per the data I was given by RED). It will not trigger successfully at say 25FPS or above (we are not even after varying the camera speed just the ability to synchronize the "exposure" of the chip to the rig. But if (B) below were working then this would not be needed anyway.
(B) the motion control rig doesn't need to know when RED "opens" the shutter and when it "closes" it again. The motion control only needs to know the shutter has opened (no matter whether at the start middle or end of exposure) and for the timing of this to be constant at a constant speed.
Surely the software/hardware already in the camera knows when exposure is occurring and this signal could just be put on an output pin somewhere?
I don't believe that is a difference between film and digital cameras, as other cameras like the Phantom HD have a frame output.
Please help us make this work somehow.
regards
Assaff

[Stuart English]

Surely the software/hardware already in the camera knows when exposure is occurring and this signal could just be put on an output pin somewhere?

Yes it does, but its confirmation of that is not available on an external pin.

We do understand what is being requested, and if we can do that in future we will.

[Simen]

Great, you will look into it.

Sorry, if I made things complicated here, but I don’t understand that all we need is a puls telling the MoCo rig when exposure is occurring. Is this not just the minimum requirement?

Don’t we need to control the camera speed (including ramping) and the shutter speed, Assaff?

I want to be able to do at least the same things with RED as with the regular film cameras.

What is the FULL list of features you would like to see from RED, Assaff – to make sure RED get all the features needed for MoCo, like the film cameras have?

S:)

[Cail Young]

]Sorry, if I made things complicated here, but I don’t understand that all we need is a puls telling the MoCo rig when exposure is occurring. Is this not just the minimum requirement?

Yes, it's a minimum requirement. Externally driving frame ramps in a similar fashion to mechanical film cameras will be significantly harder, if not impossible to acheive. But as far as I'm aware most mocon (excluding frame ramps) can be slaved from the camera rather than the mocon rig driving the camera.

It should even be possible to have a mocon rig trigger a ramp on the camera and then slave from the (hypothetical) framerate pulse.

[Drew Suppa]

Jim:

From a working set in Los Angeles, I am dissatisfied with Build 17.

Our A Cam is Build 16.3.5, and is working nearly perfectly. Well done on building a solid and rugged camera body and AKS. I only say that because our A Cam took a tumble a few days ago... down an embankment... on the side of a mountain. Some canned air later, it's back up and working flawlessly.

On the other hand, our B Cam has posed nothing but problems. First the viewfinder did not escape Initializing mode in which the EVF screen appears with a green hue. Even adjusting the settings did not completely fix this issue. Second, when using the RED Drives, B Cam had a habit of resetting itself as A Cam and choosing for itself what Reel # it wanted to display and write files to.

For instance, on one 320GB drive, despite me setting the camera as Cam B and Roll 7 (thereby creating file paths B007_C001_xxxxxx.RDM and so on), after the format it decided it was to be Cam A and recorded seven clips as Cam A (A007_C001_xxxxxx.R3D and so on), before switching back by itself as Cam B and beginning a whole new folder within itself (beginning then, finaly, as B007_C001_xxxxxx.R3D).

What is up with that?

Lastly, can you guys PLEASE include DVI menu-style output in 720P mode? This is absolutely necessary for our Script Supervisor when running multiple cameras, ESPECIALLY when Cam A and Cam B refuse to sync up on Reel #s, as is happening on this show, notably because of Build 17. Life for the editor would be much easier if she could make a note of the file name when noting slate information. Please note that we are using the newer Panasonic 17" production monitors and are running HD-SDI in with BNC.

Hope all is well with all of the guys in RED, and just trying to throw out some on-set feedback from the production office. I'm excited to hear about your new still camera, Scarlet and Epic's redesigns.

Regards,

Drew Suppa
(310) 867-1207
Camera Dept.
Operator / D.I.T.

[Leo Ticheli]

Just finished a two-day shoot in Ohio; the Red camera with build 17 recording to Red Drives performed flawlessly with no problems whatsoever. We were running View Factor Origo, Red EVF and LCD, powered with Anton Bauer 140 batteries. The camera is power-hungry, I think we used 6 bricks the second day.

We are color grading the footage, both interiors and exteriors, as I type this; the striking aspect of the footage is how very little correction is required in RedCine compared to previous builds. We are doing almost nothing, save a few tweaks to the curves, and very subtle changes at that.

My clients, with whom I've worked on many projects, were awed by the quality of the images; the beauty and shallow depth of field of 35MM film with all the advantages of digital acquisition.

I think many here know I'm not a Cool Aid drinker, I think the Red One has some ergonomic flaws, but the camera is very easy to work with and produces absolutely stunning images. So far, it's been dead-solid reliable on the set.

Good shooting and best regards to all,

Leo

[Stephen Williams]

1)
Even with a very fast moving MoCo rig you should be able to more accurately (than on a mechanical film camera) time the shutter to open and close at the exact same places in a multi pass shot. Simen:)

Hi,

Probably not more accurately than a film camera, in many cases the camera drive is a MOCO axis.

Stephen