Red vs. Phantom 65 (4K version)

[goldyprog]

Anyone do their own comparison of the footage at NAB? Of course, I'm not referring to a side-by-side comparison, but anything out of the open that was noticeable regarding differences in image quality between the two? Or was that footage even presented?

Thanks in advance!

[Matt Uhry]

The shots from the Phantom that were being shown in the Abel Cine booth looked amazing ( shown in HD on a 50 inch plasma ). The Phantom is more of a specialized camera than Red, Even though you can shoot 24fps I think it would be a painful to try to film an entire long form project with it.

It's absolutely stunning to see the images shot with it at 1000fps !

It would be nice to bring all these cameras into the same room and shoot the same thing and view it the same way. Anybody want to try to pull that off ? maybe at Cinegear ?

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

[Alexander Nikishin]

I"m definitely interested in using the high-speed version of the Phantom for slo-mo shots to intercut with Red. Although it is only 2k, I'm sure it can be treated in post to match to a certain degree.

What was interesting was their new onboard recording magazines. Not having to be tethered would be a great relief.

[Greg M]

They are not comparable products btw.

The chip size is not optimal for 35mm lenses...the 65 is for 65mm (they showed it w/ Mamiya 67 lenses)

[PaulClements]

The Phantom65 is not the 1000fps camera, that's the PhantomHD and that only shoots 2k. Like digitalfx says, the camera is for 70mm lenses, so it isn't direct competition in that sense.

I think it's interesting though, that unlike many of Red's competitors they are thinking about how they can offer something different to their customers. 70mm lenses for the 65 and 1000fps for the HD.

They are eeking out a place in the market by offering something others aren't. Good on 'em.

[goldyprog]

It would be nice to bring all these cameras into the same room and shoot the same thing and view it the same way. Anybody want to try to pull that off ? maybe at Cinegear ?

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

And just to think that the now-famous/well-known side-by-side comparisons between the HVX200, GY-HD100, XL-H1, Z1U, Varicam and CineAlta cameras took place less than 2 years ago!

[Zakaree Sandberg]

I"m definitely interested in using the high-speed version of the Phantom for slo-mo shots to intercut with Red. Although it is only 2k, I'm sure it can be treated in post to match to a certain degree.


unless ur showing in 4k it wouldnt matter..
most of us will bring it down to 2k or 1080

[Alexander Nikishin]

But ofcourse zakaree.

[Greg M]

Btw- they have been offering HD high speed cameras for over a year now...a friend of mine used the previous model to shoot the opening for Dexter (HBO Series) and he had nothing but praise. They did have to offload each shot to a pc as the storage only holds about 8-10 seconds...very slow process

[Kjetil Haugen]

Btw- they have been offering HD high speed cameras for over a year now...a friend of mine used the previous model to shoot the opening for Dexter (HBO Series) and he had nothing but praise. They did have to offload each shot to a pc as the storage only holds about 8-10 seconds...very slow process

I have to correct you there. Dexter's on Showtime. Great show!!!! Didn't know it was shot digitally until you brought it up and I checked on imdb. They used the F900 mostly and film for high speed scenes. Did your friend do more work on dexter besides the opening?

Here's a commercial shot with the Phantom 2k version btw. Lots of effects, but still.. nice looking pictures...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-p-mjLw0Gs

Nice to know that there's a digital alternative to high speed other than film. Red is superior in every other way, though!!

[Greg M]

I have to correct you there. Dexter's on Showtime. Great show!!!! Didn't know it was shot digitally until you brought it up and I checked on imdb. They used the F900 mostly and film for high speed scenes. Did your friend do more work on dexter besides the opening?

Here's a commercial shot with the Phantom 2k version btw. Lots of effects, but still.. nice looking pictures...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-p-mjLw0Gs

Nice to know that there's a digital alternative to high speed other than film. Red is superior in every other way, though!!

Sorry, yes Showtime...no they just produced the open. The company is Digital Kitchen.

[goldyprog]

FYI, Arri also makes a camera that can do 1000 fps, called a Tornado. I have seen footage from this camera and at 1000 fps, it is incredible. Obviously a highly specialized app, though. Many motion capture cameras produce even higher fps.

[Mike Prevette]

I've shot with the Phantoms a ton. I've used the 4, 4.3, 5.1, HD and 65. I love what they can do, but man are they a pain in the a$$. All control is done through a tethered PC, no on camera control. Short shooting times. LOTS of imaging problems. HORRIBLE software. Etc etc. Actually the worst shoot of my life was for Digital Kitchen with the Phantom 65. The damn thing came with the mount so out of whack that you couldn't focus the crappy Mamiya still lenses properly at all. The problems just went on from there. Eventualy the sensor gave up on the camera, luckly we had a Phantom HD as a backup. But it also started to fail, and corrupted it's firmware because of a bad camera cable. To many damn flaws to list here.

This is a company that has made 95% of its money in the past from industrial clients, missle tests etc. My first phone conversations with them they told me that "Boeing doesn't complain about noise in the image!?" I just about hung up on them.

BUT they want it to be right. The have started working with the awesome Mitch Gross at Abel Cine, on redesigning the cameras to make them film friendly. I've played with the prototype and it's a HUGE improvement. Mitch really is bringing to the table the kind of knowledge they need to make a great system. It will be great, but IMHO it's not there yet.