8 Core Bliss!!!!!

[Bmoreshaun]

Hey everyone-
No real good reason for this post, other than to revel in my new toy I just ordered...8 core mac pro, 16gb ramm, 3tb 4 hard drive array, decked out with the best video card available!!!!!!....(on macs site anyway)...I'm guessing this will make short time on rendering and maybe even shave a bit off my redcode conversions...God, I'm even considering dragging it out on the set to process the redcode right there as we shoot...It's either that or my duel mac book pro!...(although a great machine, I'm a little weiry about processing times while shooting a feature, with everyone standing around getting paid, and me just waiting for eveything to process so we can keep shooting)...Any input on the use of the mac book pro for conversion of redcode(time/efficency) would be great...I've read a couple of posts, and I know alot of people are planning on using it for just that, but I can't seem to get past my other labtop experiences of long render times...Holla back...

[hmurchison]

Congrats!

Who would have thought that 3 years ago we were waiting for ANY 3Ghz PPC processor and now you have 8 3Ghz processors. I guess in 5 years we'll all be running 32 processor cores in our systems linked together with 10GB ethernet.

Now is a great time to be using computers and media.

[_BK]

According to Intel, they will be well above 32 cores in 5 years...


"By the end of the decade we will deliver a 300 percent increase in performance per watt over today's processors."

article link (http://www.hpcwire.com/hpc/932036.html)

[Bmoreshaun]

Damnnnnnn....Makes me want to hold out!!!....lol...Though as quick as they come out, I'd always be waiting for the next one...lol...8 should do it...lol...Till' the 16 core comes out anyway...lol

[Justin Kirchhoff]

16 gigs of ram and the full 3 terabyte HD configuration?.....what the hell am i doing wrong?

[MDP16]

Thats some loot for sure. Good man for stepping up to the plate on that one.

[Ace]

Its almost like how 15-20 years ago we were reveling at 8mhz and 16mhz cpu's. Now were in the thousands of hertz. So in the not too distant future, we shall see the parallel, thousands of cores. Gigacores!

[JD Holloway]

Our robot masters are coming...

[Ace]

Well, I for one, welcome our new robot overlords...

[Dan Blanchett]

I am considering the octo-mac this summer, but may not be able to afford 16GB + Quadro FX 512MB video card + 8 cores. My budget is 10K (hardware only, no monitor), and pimping out the system is closer to 13K. If I can only pick 2 of these 3 options to max on, and compromise on the third, which should I do? I will be using FCP, Color, Motion, maybe AE or Shake, and of course Photoshop. I was thinking only 8GB of RAM maybe...?

[Ken Corben]

Always ask an Apple engineer is what I have learned. I have received frank answers including the diminishing return on Max RAM. We all want the fastest processors we can afford - that's a given. What I learned is that a specific APP like FCP 6 only needs a certain amount of RAM to operate optimally.

I know, I know - you want to run 5 apps simultaneously and need the max RAM, right? Maybe not. Ask the guys that built and tested it - not the sales department BTW. It's one way to save significant money and you can always upgrade later.

[Dan Blanchett]

Good advice. Also, as more people own this new system, hopefully I can get feedback from end users as well. I have a few months...

[Jeff Kilgroe]

As discussed elsewhere in this forum, don't bother with the current Quadro FX card. You're wasting your money... It's nearly 3 years old now and is in fact much slower at most operations than the ATI X1900XT option. Only get it if you need one of the couple obscure features it provides -- genlock port, multiple hardware stencil buffers and overlay planes. If you're not sure if your software uses this, then you don't need it. I think I can count all the apps that would benefit from this card over the ATI card on one hand and still have a finger left to pick my nose.

As for the RAM... Same as what SharkGuy said... We also have to look at what Tiger is as an OS and many of the OS API layers are still 32bit as are many of the common applications are too, in parts. What does this mean? 32bit memory addressing and limitations of 2GB RAM per OS process. Very few applications will see, let alone take advantage of more than 2GB of RAM. OTOH, more cores (if properly used) requires and justifies more RAM. For RAM, I can't make a recommendation on how much someone should buy unless I know their workflow and which applications they intend to run. I do know that 4GB is not enough RAM in one of my G5 quads for a lot of what I do... I have 8GB in another and it's more than enough... 5 o 6 GB is probably realistic. With an 8-core Mac Pro, I personally would put 8GB in it... Maybe 12GB if the prices become more reasonable on FB-DIMMs here in the near future and Apple quits price gouging for their RAM. 16GB is overkill for someone who spends most of their time in FCS and Photoshop. But for certain engineering applications it could be useful. If it fits in the budget, I say go for the 16GB, especially if you're doing 2K+ editing and compositing... That's just more workspace for RAM previews and dealing with 100s of layers on a lengthy shot @ 2K+. I don't know how well FCS / Shake and other related apps handle with that much RAM though. Never tried it with more than 8GB and have never run out of room as far as the RAM was concerned.

[Dan Blanchett]

Yeah, it seems like the video card is still the weak point of the new Intel Macs. Maybe in a few months some other options will be available.

[Dan Blanchett]

Jeff, I just realized how many posts you have. My god, man, go out and get some sun... :)

[Roberto B]

let him here.. this guy is too much useful.. :mail1: :biggrin:

[nobodySpecial]

I am considering the octo-mac this summer, but may not be able to afford 16GB + Quadro FX 512MB video card + 8 cores. My budget is 10K (hardware only, no monitor), and pimping out the system is closer to 13K.

For memory, take a look here:

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/memory/Mac-Pro-Memory

I've gotten memory from them for the past 6 or so years. Only had a few bad sticks. If they say it's Apple certified, then it is - no B.S. 16GB for under $2k. Also remember that RAM is the easiest thing to add. If you only get 8GB now ($1k), you can always add more when you get the money to do so. Video card is second easiest to upgrade. Fitting new drives into an existing RAID is a pain, so I would max CPU, drive, and card in that order.

-Mark

[Ralph Oshiro]

Sounds like you got the right system! The "show" Mac (I forget if it was the one in the Apple booth or the RED booth) was a 8-core with 8GB of RAM.

[Poi Boy]

I'm going with 8gb of ram, have to save some money somewhere !
-A

[Dan Blanchett]

For memory, take a look here:

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/memory/Mac-Pro-Memory

I've gotten memory from them for the past 6 or so years. Only had a few bad sticks. If they say it's Apple certified, then it is - no B.S. 16GB for under $2k. Also remember that RAM is the easiest thing to add. If you only get 8GB now ($1k), you can always add more when you get the money to do so. Video card is second easiest to upgrade. Fitting new drives into an existing RAID is a pain, so I would max CPU, drive, and card in that order.

Thanks for the tip!

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Jeff, I just realized how many posts you have. My god, man, go out and get some sun... :)

Well, I was kinda stuck inside for my computer time today, but it wasn't all that nice anyway. Yesterday was beautiful and I did most of my posting from my back patio. :bleh: Besides, I still get in my daily bike ride or run with the dog. I play ice hockey at least 3 days a week and other more random things. The real problem is I just don't sleep much. Oh, I type pretty damn fast, too.

Actually, I'm just screwing around too much lately... I finished off some long term contracts and I really should be building a new web site. But it's been a while since I've been able to do "nothing" so it's kinda fun. I think the "nothing" is coming to an end soon though...

[Roberto B]

keep posting man.. we need for your posts..

[JohnF]

First I'll say that I ask this in a truly meant non-antagonistic way...

Why are you guy's willing to spend ~10K on a Mac when you will be able to get an 8-core Intel PC for around 1-2k? (from the prices I've seen. Oh that's in UK pounds so $2-4k)

Is it for the ability to use FCP or what?

I'd really like to know as I really don't understand it from the POV of budgeting esp for Indie films...

I'll emphasise this post is not about starting a PC vs Mac row as I'm aware that if you like a system as a tool then that's cool but when people are often citing budget concerns as an issue for producing their work then buying a system that's almost an order of magnitude more in price seems a little contradictory IMO.

As I said I'd really like to know as I think it's an important point in regard to the future of the HD post market.

JohnF

[Christian Berg]

I was i PC user until i realised that Mac OSX is a really nice OS. The initial price seams high but you get so many features with the os and the system in general works in my opinion mutch better than windows. Plus no viruses as far as i know. Never used a anti virus guard.

Apple also makes QuickTime witch is a big part in OSX. A lot of applications work with QuickTime and that is great. FCP studio is getting better every year and a Mac system is not that expensive if you look at the total cost.
Apple is doing a great job with keeping the budget down. Now you get a colorcorrector almost for free with FCP Studio 2, that application did cost about 250000$ last fall.
/Christian

[Ace]

JohnF, I think youll notice that the quadcores are actually Xeon processors. They come in at about 1400 each. So you got $2,800 worth of CPU in the mac pro box alone, not counting all the other components.

[Zack Birlew]

My brother and I are thinking we'll have to max out the RAM on ours because we're going to be using it for 3D modeling applications as well (ie. Maya, 3DS MAX, ect.). To save money, you've got to go somewhere else for RAM and the hard drives, Apple's pricing is ridiculous!

The big question, however, is when do the quad Macbook Pro's come out?

[Dan Blanchett]

I still get in my daily bike ride or run with the dog. I play ice hockey at least 3 days a week and other more random things.

Glad to hear you're taking care of yourself. Post on! :wink:


Why are you guy's willing to spend ~10K on a Mac when you will be able to get an 8-core Intel PC for around 1-2k? (from the prices I've seen. Oh that's in UK pounds so $2-4k)

I am not 100% committed to any platform yet. I am leaning towards Mac mainly because of the preferred workflow. Most of my experience is editing Avid or FCP on Mac, so I'd have to give Premiere a test run and get feedback from other users once the RED ONE is in circulation. I won't get my camera (or post system) until August or September, so maybe by then I'll have a clearer picture. Rest assured, I'm not looking to spend more money than I have to.

[Dan Blanchett]

To save money, you've got to go somewhere else for RAM and the hard drives, Apple's pricing is ridiculous!


You can save $2000 or more on the RAM alone (16GB) by getting it from a third party. I was considering getting cheaper Seagate drives too ($200 less each) for bays 2, 3 and 4, but only if striping these after the fact is straightforward.

[Poi Boy]

you can't get a $2k pc that is the same as a $A10K mac...
I don't understand the question.
-A

[DSH]

We all heard the great news that via proxy you can work with 4k in FCP.

Does anybody know whether Colour will handle 4k for grading, and if it does via a 1k proxy how does that affect the grading experience and output.

[Nick Shaw]

I believe the current version only supports 2k. The Apple spec page says "Support for 4:4:4 2K as DPX or Cineon files". Don't know what would happen with REDCODE 4k. But I think on current machines you would need to work with proxies anyway.

[Corrado Silveri]

You're right, Nick.
Quote from the Apple website:

"You can even use Final Cut Pro and Color together for Digital Intermediate workflows, complete with the ability to render out DPX files at full 4:4:4 2K quality."

Maybe 4K in the near future?

[Steve Tammi]

Always ask an Apple engineer is what I have learned. I have received frank answers including the diminishing return on Max RAM. We all want the fastest processors we can afford - that's a given. What I learned is that a specific APP like FCP 6 only needs a certain amount of RAM to operate optimally.

I know, I know - you want to run 5 apps simultaneously and need the max RAM, right? Maybe not. Ask the guys that built and tested it - not the sales department BTW. It's one way to save significant money and you can always upgrade later.

I like the idea of talking to an Apple Engineer, is there a forum or way to make contact with the engineers?

[Bmoreshaun]

My brother and I are thinking we'll have to max out the RAM on ours because we're going to be using it for 3D modeling applications as well (ie. Maya, 3DS MAX, ect.). To save money, you've got to go somewhere else for RAM and the hard drives, Apple's pricing is ridiculous!




Yea, I'm probably doing a little ramm overkill, (seeing how I'll at most have FCP, Logic,and Shake open at one givin time), but I'm more interested in having a system that's worry free, and will cut though multiple tasks to keep my work flow moving...(this one might even do a wheelie...lol...jk)...Things can get so slow in post, and I'd like to work at a little quicker pace...Though I might not always use all the ramm, it's there, and if I give it alot to do all at one time, it's not gonna crap out on me...I've always got my Mac ramm from some other sorce rather than macs website(as ramm is ramm and dosn't matter who's name's on the card, as long as it works), and I've always found ramm to be cheaper else where, but my Executive Producer insists that we go apple(as he's a huge mac guy, and dosen't trust much else)...As far as the video card, I went with the ATI, as there wasn't much use for the FX's features(dosn't matter, it'll be getting ripped out when I've some time to do some research on video cards(new one's up and comming & ones on the market)...Anyone looked into this, suggestions???

[Jason Ing]

I'm a pc guy (although I own a G4 laptop). But I'm getting the dual quad mac. Reasons:

1) Boot Camp. My current internet research seems to say that I can run everything I need from the pc side on the macpro (I get my cake and eat it too). This includes Eyeon Fusion and Maya. I can run XPPro and get access to the 64bit architecture (don't have to wait for leapord) which Fusion and Maya can really scream on. XPPro doesn't have the ram limitation either. Anyone who knows differently, let me know.

2) Color. Might be slow, but a $25,000 grading/correction software for "free" that runs only on mac? Not to mention the inevitable future improvements? What more can I say.

3) Red and Apple are playing nice. Eventually, Red will play nice with the pc, I heard, but if you're planning to shoot soon...

Anyway, I can't afford the decked out version... so I'll just be sticking 4g ram for now and then add on as I get money and memory gets cheaper. If you do the same, be sure to order 2x2g because if you custom build it from the Apple site, they try to give you 1x4 or something like that which if you plan to max out the ram, you will waste those four memory sticks.

As for hard drives, I'm just getting the basic. I'm planning on building and gradually adding to an external raid storage.

And I'll be getting the Radeon because it's recommended for Color.

By the way, I haven't fully converted! Part of my budget is going towards building a custom dual quad pc. I can build a better and cheaper 8core pc then what I'm getting on the mac and I can use either workstation as a mini-render farm too. But mac is still a good decision because Red/Color and it's dual os (I can even run linux too). I'll build my pc first and then wait for the mac and it's improvements/upgrades/price changes later this year when I get my Red.

[C.H.Haskell]

Mac user here. (Final cut One +G4 converted me) For me its all about the OS and FCP...simple really.

I have invested much over the years (for my budget) into my G5 dual core (pre intel) station with sata raid, Kona 2 and breakouts, Digi002 rack etc. Designed to tailor my current P2 workflow and so far so good!

But then RED happened and the world as I know it changes. Since my RED ONE will not arrive until early 2008 most likely, I suppose I should hold out for 8 core until then. BUT what to do with my old station???? What becomes of it? a Second media station, that cant handle even 2k. An ebay item? Most of 3rd party hardware does wont even port over to Intel.

Well good luck with your 8 core and congratz on taking the 1st steps.

Best

[Rob Lohman]

I would still advice to hold off on purchases until you're closer to getting a camera. Unless you need a new system for other reasons.

[Rocco Schult]

good advice.
these things always drop in price, everyday. it doesn't pay of to wait for it to become cheaper or a certain feature is brought to market - it always drops and always renews.
But it pays off when you don't buy it until you actually need it.
Guess the same machine in 6months...

[Jason Ing]

By the time I get my Red camera, maybe Red will have created the Red Solution for the PC side as well. I could edit in Premiere Pro.

But...

... I don't think the PC will have a "Color" solution at a great price point... :(

So MacPro, here I come. :)