Red Hammer

[Bing Bailey]

I wonder what other accessories they may have planned. it seems they've gone through most of them

we have
The Camera
The Storage
The Lens
Batteries+Charger
Cages
EVF
LCD
Motorized Follow Focus
4k Displays soon
4k Projector soon
Pocket Red Pro soon

if they take the same design and price philosophy they could RED nuke the entire market. I trust RED that much because they've delivered everything everybody said they wouldnt and then some. I'd buy any of these things from them. they need a mascot , a RED Hammer maybe :) like thors hammer. while lots of companies make these accessories very well. they do seem very overpriced and only get a little better in each incarnation. I wonder if panavision has ordered any REDS. will they try and panavise one. I mean would it be odd for them to make things below.

Matte Box
Follow Focus
Filters
Tripod
Steadycam Rig
Crane

[govindablu]

Red is starting to remind me of Microsoft Windows' OS monopoly in the 90's. Whether that is a good thing for the long run is still unknown.

[Ivan G]

Where are the RED stocks?

[Brook Willard]

Red is starting to remind me of Microsoft Windows' OS monopoly in the 90's.

:) Oh man...

[jbeale]

You mention tripod, maybe including the fluid head with that. It always does surprise me that pro fluid heads are around $4k and up, especially after I disassembled a (very old) O'Connor #30 head and saw that it is basically just a few bearings and a cylinder rotating in a really thick fluid.

[Priyesh P.]

The market for steadicams is crowded. you can get sachtler´s artemis which should nicely work with red for less than 10K.

Vendors for stabilizers I know:
Tiffen
GPI
Camtech
Actionproducts
ABC
ABA
Sachtler
Movcam
"Basson Steady" ( no serious equipment )
Gildecam
Hollywood (?)
MK-V ( no stabilizer Arm )

So it wouldn´t make much sense trying to get into that market, too.

[underachiever]

The Uakari monkey might be a proper mascot...
there is also far to few of those around at the moment :calm:

[Cail Young]

You mention tripod, maybe including the fluid head with that. It always does surprise me that pro fluid heads are around $4k and up, especially after I disassembled a (very old) O'Connor #30 head and saw that it is basically just a few bearings and a cylinder rotating in a really thick fluid.

The really thick fluid is the secret sauce, though... it's not your standard grease by any means. At least these days, anyway; maybe back then it was :D

[Joe Aurili]

Reservation holders get first dibs on the IPO right? ;)


Red is starting to remind me of Microsoft Windows' OS monopoly in the 90's. Whether that is a good thing for the long run is still unknown.

[Vincent Rice]

Red is starting to remind me of Microsoft Windows' OS monopoly in the 90's. Whether that is a good thing for the long run is still unknown.

What on earth is that supposed to mean?

[Craig Bowman]

There is NO reason for Red to need to go public. It been Jim's dream to build Red and you don't give away your dream to someone else. Otherwise what would stop Sony from gobbling up the stock and then cranking up the prices to Sony levels. Not going to happen.

[Jared VanLeuven]

There is NO reason for Red to need to go public. It been Jim's dream to build Red and you don't give away your dream to someone else. Otherwise what would stop Sony from gobbling up the stock and then cranking up the prices to Sony levels. Not going to happen.

True. And given some of the grief Jim's gone through since Oakley went public, he'd be very reticent to take this baby out to the Street.

[Steve Gibby]

Jim clearly stated last year that he doesn't intend to ever take RED public. IMO that will not change...

[jbeale]

The really thick fluid is the secret sauce, though... it's not your standard grease by any means. At least these days, anyway; maybe back then it was :D

True, it is not simple grease, but it is available. O'Connor sells replacement head fluid directly. For the #30 head refill it's apparently about $90.
09700 Fluid Model C/30 1/2 Pint http://www.ocon.com/support/parts.html

Or if you can spell polydimethysiloxane (aka silicone oil) you can get it cheaper. For example, "Dow Corning 200 Fluid" in the 100,000 cst viscosity.
http://www.dowcorning.com/applications/search/default.aspx?R=87EN
http://www.advancew8.com/form-fluid.htm

This same material with different polymer chain lengths, ie different viscosities, is used in food additives, cosmetics, silicone breast implants, etc.

[Jon McCoy]

Red is starting to remind me of Microsoft Windows' OS monopoly in the 90's. Whether that is a good thing for the long run is still unknown.

That's a disturbing analogy at the very least.

If you had to pick a business to compare, it would have to be Apple. In 1984, Apple released the Mac, a computer that took on a world, where a computer was very much not personal, and where the industry was only interested in milking million-dollar contracts. Look around you. Sony's 4K offerings are quite crap, and will set you back quite a few hundred thousand dollars. Red has stormed the industry - created a camera that has revolutionized (and without shipping a camera yet), and has made it possible for an indie film maker, with a tight budget, to take on the biggest production companies. Coupled with Final Cut Studio 2, when the Red camera is released, to capture and cut a box office quality film for under $30,000. Before Red, the camera would cost over $100,000 for this quality. Before Apple, the editing suite would cost over $100,000 for this quality.

Let me put it sweetly. One of our client's received a quote for Microsoft Vista company-wide. Today, they placed an order with us to replace all 80 workstations with Mac's. Go figure.

Red ain't Microsoft.


Jim clearly stated last year that he doesn't intend to ever take RED public. IMO that will not change...

And that's a good thing. More motivated with the product, and long term development, then a short term cash cow in the city.

[Pete Horvath]

I think a better industry analogy is how Digidesign pro-tools has become the defacto standard in audio production. Originally they competed with much more expensive audio post systems and now everything is compared to them.

If Red holds onto its core values (pun intended) and continues to give the mid range market these awesome tools at reasonable prices, their momentum could easily migrate up the food chain.

Pete

[David Dennis]

Protools is notorious for the worst customer service in the industry. I experienced just a little taste of it, just enough to show me how utterly awful it was, and vowed never to buy another DigiDesign product again.

I'll stick with the Apple analogy, thanks. I really love the customer enthusiasm here, it reminds me a lot of Apple, but with a more personal touch since so many of you have met Jim.

Jim's "I want something revolutionary in video cameras so I'm going to make my own" attitude makes me think a bit of the early years of open source, when it was all about the effort of a small band of individuals challenging the establishment. I don't think there's anything cooler than that kind of attitude.

D

[Cail Young]

True, it is not simple grease, but it is available. O'Connor sells replacement head fluid directly. For the #30 head refill it's apparently about $90.
09700 Fluid Model C/30 1/2 Pint http://www.ocon.com/support/parts.html

Interesting. I swear I was reading some manufacturer's blurb about their proprietary head fluid... perhaps it was a dream.

[underachiever]

Knocking down a "silent agreement" between competitors to artificially uphold a profitable market segmentation, does not resemble what microsoft or apple did. They just took it to the people, easy and affordable.

What is interesting about Red as far as I can see, is that they are curing a disease which pops up in rental based markets where the proffessionals don´t buy their own equipment. Here you can get a high end market with a "Thats reassuringly expensive - (and I am not paying myself anyway) - attitude." And in order to protect this high-end you cripple the low end.
Hopefully Rycote, Tiffen, Manfrotto and similar companies will be in for a treatment in the near future. Rubberbands, stockings, sticks and ballbearings don´t cost THAT much to make these days... do they?

[Jannard]

Red is starting to remind me of Microsoft Windows' OS monopoly in the 90's. Whether that is a good thing for the long run is still unknown.

hehe... that is so dumb.

Jim

[Brook Willard]

:) :laugh: holy shit...

[Priyesh P.]

OMG, please don´t compare MS with Red, if that´s the case we´ll be ending up with cameras that are overpriced, always freeze during operation, get swamped by trojans, viruses and worms, need yearly updates, don´t work properly with Red´s own accessories ( or any accessories ) and just drives you crazy...

Priyesh

[sander kamp]

OMG, please don´t compare MS with Red, if that´s the case we´ll be ending up with cameras that are overpriced, always freeze during operation, get swamped by trojans, viruses and worms, need yearly updates, don´t work properly with Red´s own accessories ( or any accessories ) and just drives you crazy...

Priyesh

Haha yeah, and they would ship a camera that would need several upgrades before everything is working!

Oh wait.... :blush:

[Stephen Gentle]

Red is starting to remind me of Microsoft Windows' OS monopoly in the 90's. Whether that is a good thing for the long run is still unknown.

The main difference is that RED has a good product, it's cheaper than the competition and they are not an evil multinational corporation. I think that you might be able to more accurately compare Sony to Microsoft :P.

[sander kamp]

RED is also actively listening to their customers, they don't rely on heavy marketing to sell their products, they don't buy their competitors and discontinue their products, etc.

Let's take a look again in five years but at the moment RED doesn't look like Microsoft at all.

[Jon McCoy]

Knocking down a "silent agreement" between competitors to artificially uphold a profitable market segmentation, does not resemble what microsoft or apple did. They just took it to the people, easy and affordable.

Sorry, I forgot. Apple charges $100,000 for Final Cut Studio. Last time I heard, there's a few SiliconColor customers a touch aggrieved at paying $25,000 for FinalTouch 2K, what with Apple now including it free of charge in Final Cut Studio.

"Silent agreement" my arse. It's called greed.


hehe... that is so dumb.

Jim

Enough said, really.

[Clint Johnson]

Red isn't Microsoft... which is in the business of preserving their business. That isn't to knock Microsoft, because of their size and the fact they have second or third hand control over hardware, they have a job that it hundreds of time harder than Apple's and thousands of times harder than Red's. Microsoft does a job that neither Apple nor Red could do... they just aren't near as cool as Apple or Red.

Red isn't Apple... Apple is in the business of marketing themselves as the inventor of everything and the arbiter of cool. And that is only a minor dig at Apple since they do put a fine polish on things invented elsewhere and because they keep a draconian stranglehold on the hardware and software, they do tend to work smoother than Microsoft and Linux.

Who is Red?

Red is Red.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

they don't buy their competitors and discontinue their products, etc.

Why is the Accuscene web site gone except for their logo and an email address to contact support? :whistling: ...OK, I'll shut up now. :clown2:

[Brook Willard]

Nobody likes to see their favorite or least favorite companies compared in any way... don't get too testy, guys. :)

[Jarred Land]

well said Brook.. and to that tune, lets throw this into off topic.

[Jon McCoy]

adthrawn

And to make false citations of Jim on top of that, is just out of line.
:clown2:

Before you jump in, try reading the previous pages of a thread. Try reading page 2 of this thread.

This has gone way off-topic.

[Jonathan Smiles]

Red at NAB reminded me of the story of Charles Parsons and the Turbinia.

Turbinia is a small ship designed to show off Parsons' steam turbine technology and was capable of 34.5 knots in 1894.

To get noticed the Turbinia gate crashed a British Naval review and was so fast it evaded all attempts to catch her. After this incident the Navy took notice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turbinia