i guess no news is good news but...

[luis bustamante]

If any of the kind people at RED could give us any update of the current state of things, it'd be greatly appreciated.

You've spoiled us with all this insight into your R&D process and now we've become helplessly addicted to this webpage, loading it several times a day in hope of finding a juicy thread with titles like "spike fully operational w/pictures to prove it"...

Sorry for this post, I'll concede: I AM A REDAHOLIC.

Luis

[Jarred Land]

ha ha Luis, with Spike being outfitted last week the whole team has their hands full, im sure once things are a little less chaotic there will be some more updates.

[luis bustamante]

Thanks! That will be enough at least for today: You guys are outfitting Spike. I find peace in knowing that.

Will wait patiently now...

[Shawn Nelson]

It was sorta disappointing to hear the Spike was just a dummy prototype that didn't actually work. I seem to recall Jim saying he wanted the first operational cameras to be assembled in Dec and not just a tradeshow unit. Oh well, delays are fine. It gives me more time to save for accessories :-)

[Brook Willard]

If memory serves, Jim stated that they have multiple test beds each performing certain functions. Spike does something, we just don't know exactly what feature set it contains. This is understandably a part of the process that they will probably keep internal.

[Clayton Harper]

I would punch my granny in the face for some high contrast exterior shots off one of those test beds.

Don't ask me what I would do for one of those iphones.

[Graeme Nattress]

Graeme's update: I'm coding. Code is going good. Refined some algorithms. Improved some image quality. Don't bother asking for details - all top secret :-) All goes good here at RED North, especially now that I got some new whisky on the duty free: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=191

Graeme

[Corrado Silveri]

http://www.smwsa.com/

[luis bustamante]

well, I dont blame them at all! As long as they keep us updated ;)

edit: Oh! And Graeme, that's exactly what we need to hear: Everything is going well and as planned! Thanks a lot for your update, you made my day! At least post some photos of the code or something! (Now, THAT would be interesting!)

By the way, if you like rare liquors, here in Sonora we have Bacanora, it's somewhat similar to tequila but a bit stronger.

http://bacanora.com.mx/english/index.html

Let me know if you want a bottle, I'll send you one just for being such a nice fellow (and for developing redcode RAW) :D

luis

[Scott Webster]

Graeme's update: I'm coding. Code is going good. Refined some algorithms. Improved some image quality. Don't bother asking for details - all top secret :-) All goes good here at RED North, especially now that I got some new whisky on the duty free: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=191

Graeme

Friends don't let friends, drink and code.:D

[Graeme Nattress]

It would never get through Canadian customs anyway.... Thanks for the offer though!

[Steve Gibby]

Friends don't let friends, drink and code.:D

LOL!!

[Jannard]

It was sorta disappointing to hear the Spike was just a dummy prototype that didn't actually work. I seem to recall Jim saying he wanted the first operational cameras to be assembled in Dec and not just a tradeshow unit. Oh well, delays are fine. It gives me more time to save for accessories :-)

Where did you hear that? Spike is NO DUMMY! And who said anything about delays? If there is a delay, we will tell you.

Jim

[Blue]

Where did you hear that? Spike is NO DUMMY! And who said anything about delays? If there is a delay, we will tell you.

Jim

Yeah shawn, who said that? Let's lock it down.

[luis bustamante]

Graeme[/QUOTE]


It would never get through Canadian customs anyway.... Thanks for the offer though!

I'll just have to take it to NAB then! :P

Cheers & keep up the good work!

[luis bustamante]

Where did you hear that? Spike is NO DUMMY! And who said anything about delays? If there is a delay, we will tell you.

Jim

Mr. Jannard, this is what happens when you don't give us our soothing medicine. We start to get restless, you know human nature, it's only matter of time before someone thinks the worst. We start conspiring and making all kind of theories. I humbly suggest a simple solution: Keep us updated! :P

And really, you know you can do this whatever way you feel is the right one. We'll support you every step of the way!

A very sincere THANKS to you!

Luis

[Rob Lohman]

My progress: I'm busy writing documents, they look good ;) Now I'm writing here on the forum. That's good too?

[Scott Webster]

In Shawn's defence it is easy to see how he may be confused on the purpose of Spike. Red have been cryptic on it's use (which is there right as is any information they choose to share or not)

What most were looking for is a simple statement to the effect of:
This is Spike. It is a machined Red body which will over the next (insert time period) we will look at installing a sensor and attempt to bring the camera up to operating spec. Not all features may be enabled in Spike but it is a stepping stone in the Red One development. Spike will be used in conjunction with Frankie and Frankie 2 to further develop an operational Red One camera.

This is what I have deducted from the various posts by the Red team and this post by Jim:

"We have a combination of test beds. Frankie, Frankie 2, Spike, and boards on a bench. I don't really want to get into the details of what each is doing everyday or what images came from where. I will say that Spike is not full function enabled at this time, nor was it intended to be at this point. We are bringing up different features on different test beds for now. Remember, the goal is to ship early 2007. All is good (today).

Jim"

And

"Spike is one of the working tools in our bag of tricks...

Jim"

In that regard you should consider Spike as another test bed as part of the camera development.

[beatniq]

Gee, maybe it's just me, but I find that a CEO establishing and participating in an online forum for the sole purpose of ensuring that the product he is creating meets the wildest dreams of his potential customers is sufficient for me to feel properly updated.

Graeme Nattress posts here for Christ sakes. Frequently! Jim Jannard!

Can anyone here point me to the forum where Bill Gates takes his public input and advice for Vista?

It's official. The bears have been fed.

[Finner]

Gee, maybe it's just me, but I find that a CEO establishing and participating in an online forum for the sole purpose of ensuring that the product he is creating meets the wildest dreams of his potential customers is sufficient for me to feel properly updated.

Graeme Nattress posts here for Christ sakes. Frequently! Jim Jannard!

Can anyone here point me to the forum where Bill Gates takes his public input and advice for Vista?

It's official. The bears have been fed.


Words of wisdom from a "beatniq" none the less.

The RED team has been completely open with us about their camera plans. When there plans change they update us. They even answer the same questions over and over for new people. Why do people have to continue to ask for more. I have even seen some of Jims responses to asking for more with hints of "This is not worth the aggravation in it". It seems like Jims frustration comes around very fast though, much faster then my patience would.

So how about we all be thankful for the info we get and leave them some peace to build the camera, they will update us when necessary. I truely believe the more people push the less we will be included on what is happening.

[Hoffmann Films]

well said Finner.....

[beatniq]

Words of wisdom from a "beatniq" none the less.

Ouch.

[Scott Webster]

Why not a 'sticky' for official announcements or updates? That way newbies and vets have one place to look for a quick update on state of progress. Restrict postings to Red Team and Mods so its just the good oil.

[Joe Carney]

Why not a 'sticky' for official announcements or updates? That way newbies and vets have one place to look for a quick update on state of progress. Restrict postings to Red Team and Mods so its just the good oil.

I checked it out, they actually have a search function on this site, hehehe.

[Shawn Nelson]

In Shawn's defence it is easy to see how he may be confused on the purpose of Spike. Red have been cryptic on it's use (which is there right as is any information they choose to share or not)

What most were looking for is a simple statement to the effect of:
This is Spike. It is a machined Red body which will over the next (insert time period) we will look at installing a sensor and attempt to bring the camera up to operating spec. Not all features may be enabled in Spike but it is a stepping stone in the Red One development. Spike will be used in conjunction with Frankie and Frankie 2 to further develop an operational Red One camera.

This is what I have deducted from the various posts by the Red team and this post by Jim:

"We have a combination of test beds. Frankie, Frankie 2, Spike, and boards on a bench. I don't really want to get into the details of what each is doing everyday or what images came from where. I will say that Spike is not full function enabled at this time, nor was it intended to be at this point. We are bringing up different features on different test beds for now. Remember, the goal is to ship early 2007. All is good (today).

Jim"

And

"Spike is one of the working tools in our bag of tricks...

Jim"

In that regard you should consider Spike as another test bed as part of the camera development.

Yeah, I had read those two statements from Jim and assumed between the lines that while Spike was useful, it isn't a camera that can actually record anything. But that's okay, I wasn't meaning to sound accusatory, having a working Red in the actual body will come soon enough.

[Mike the beginner]

overall i think red do a pretty good job of keeping us informed within reason.

The problem is the "within reason" part means different things to different people. Also it is difficult for some to accept that there are some things that simply cant be confirmed perhaps for competition fears etc. That is perfectly acceptable to the majority of us.

On the question of disappointment at spike not being real, i think some people may have expected a fully working camera that thirty or so individuals could test and report back to red. I know little of cameras and how they are made but from the amount of reading i have covered that scenario is some way off at the very least. Remember if i am correct (if not feel free to correct) Dalsa had real problems with their sensor for their camera, as not every sensor was equal. I think what red might be doing is making sure that they do not have similar problems with their sensor by having multiple spikes. They appear to be going about it in a tough no nonsense manner making sure that the sensors can deliver the results from a fixed position first before preparing spike for walkabouts. Once they have completed those tests and some ......then i have no doubt team red will post here and let us know if Spike has passed those tests.

It is way too much to have expected spike to be an actual completed camera in the rawest sense. Now i could be talking rubbish ( i know i know) but thats how i see things for the time being. As someone said, dont rush these guys, we want red one to be working as near perfect as possible when we get our hands on it. What we certainly don't want is a red one that has to be sent back to red for several faults/modifications because red rushed things to satisfy some reservation holders. Remember the cost to go into production will not be cheap, so red are ensuring the camera is up for it before going to production of any kind even for testing.

So far i just love the robust look of red. I didn't at first (if i am honest) but as the months flew past i have grown to like the look more and more. To those worrying about sealing and protection from the weather, stop worrying. Look again at the red design though and through. This red is being built to last and i dont' doubt for a second that Jim Jannard will disappoint in the general build of all items on the red one. If there's a camera out there that has really great features (the arri 235 i like) i think you will see red one with features to match or better. Sorry for the long post guys.

Michael

[Jannard]

This is kind of why I wanted to be a bit vague. We will either answer questions daily regarding which test camera is doing what and what features are enabled on which test bed... or be vague. To assume from our vagueness that Spike is not working or is just a machined dummy is simply not correct. I have said that Spike is not full-featured enabled, but that does not mean it just sits there and looks pretty. It is to our advantage to bring up systems and features on different test beds. If something doesn't work, it is much easier to isolate the problem this way. We need ALL our test beds. None of them are sleeping.

We are not behind (yet), we are hard at work, we are doing everything we can to make the best camera in the world in a very short period of time. We appreciate the support and trust you have given us. We are doing everything in our control to not let you down.

Jim

[Jason Francois]

but that does not mean it just sits there and looks pretty.

Oh, but it really does look pretty.

It's been said many, many times, but thanks to the RED team for being so open. I've never witnessed anything like RED this close up and surely nothing like the communication from the RED team.

I, like many, will value this long after my first camera has been put on display years down the road. :)

[Jarred Land]

give an inch....


well said insanityfw.... well said.

[Shawn Nelson]

I trust you, I just may need to stop refreshing this site 10 times a day :-)

[Jochen Schmidt-Hambrock]

We all know what´s it´s like to have clients breathing down your neck while we are working. Me, - doing scores - I had that director who was almost sitting on my lap while I was writing ("What do the second violins bring to that scene?").

To not only invite a selected group of customers, but *all 1000* clients plus any bystanders into the process of building what must be quite a complex product is very brave and shows a huge confidence in your future customers.

So lets not breath down their necks too much.

Me, I concentrate really hard to forget about Red untill I get the shipping notice of my number.

But then Jim posts something about lifting skirts again .....

Well......, back to work.

Jochen

[Mardi_Gras]

...We are not behind (yet), we are hard at work, we are doing everything we can to make the best camera in the world in a very short period of time. We appreciate the support and trust you have given us. We are doing everything in our control to not let you down.

Jim

Jim, as far as I'm concerned, even if you were to be a little behind schedule, trust me, considering the mammoth task you're taking on, I'd say is allowed. Taking your time to do it right is more important than rushing it out "on time" to silence the skeptics and then encountering problems down the line, which, I think is actually worse.

[Martin Jäger]

"...Taking your time to do it right is more important than rushing it out "on time" ..."

totally! we appreciate a machine that works - personally i'd rather wait one more year than going through a repair/bugfix program - it'd hurt a lot more
to give something back you had in your hands allready.

red team - take your time - you'll build the best cam, nothing else.

martin

[Jim Arthurs]

We get plenty feedback. Leave 'em alone. Don't ask the same questions for the 100th time. Don't ask questions designed to bait a response from one of the team. Let them build a camera.

Come NAB, they can show us plenty of exciting footage from the protos along with the whole workflow, give us hands on time with working units, and then announce a shipping date. I'm sure that's the LEAST that will happen.

The second chance at registration is the best indicator of team progress possible, and says volumes about the state of affairs. Why open yourself up like that if things aren't going smoothly? Who needs an additional couple hundred pissed off people instead of just 1073 or so?

[IAN SUN]

just 1073 or so?

or 1080p+++:D

[Jason Francois]

give an inch....




Well said Jarred.

[Jim Arthurs]

or 1080p+++:D

I'm sorry, and stand corrected... :) That's a very easy number to remember, you and #720 should get together and do a shoot...

[Emanuel A.]

Me, I concentrate really hard to forget about Red untill I get the shipping notice of my number.

But then Jim posts something about lifting skirts again .....

Well......, back to work.

JochenWell said, well said Josch. BTW, when shall I receive that delayed piece of the score, man? ;-)

[Jochen Schmidt-Hambrock]

Its coming! Almost there!! Just a few more pages!

........

Lemme just check reduser one more time....

[RobRoySyd]

As I used to say to management when a project was running late:
No one remembers if it was late, they soon forget if it went over budget but they always remember if it didn't work right out of the box.

To make any predictions no matter how vague about milestones on a project like this is very brave.