The Russian Red: 2k, 4k, 8k, 16K!!

[Maxim]

Hi,
I just thought I would share this russian camera make with you.

http://www.kinor.ru/products/camera/

They all look amazing.
2K
2K High Speed (700FPS)
4K (600 FPS option)

and then I went to the DCX and I was gob smacked! Its a made to order camera and it can be taken to the extream. Kind of like Dells custom a laptop yet its a camera and it can be put on serious steriods.

16K Resolution (I smell overkill)
12 Sensors!
HDR 3X64 bit depth
10,000 FPS on HD and 50,000 FPS! on VGA
With custom desgin and custom software

If I could have any camera it would be that. (Or a nice 72mm Camera)

[Noah Kadner]

Anybody can slap together a breadbox camera from off the shelf CMOS sensors and parts these days. But with zero 3rd party support, no tech support, no fellow users to ask questions from, no test footage etc- what's the point?

http://www.kinor.ru/files/DSC_0004_1_600.JPG vs. http://www.science.edu/TechoftheYear/Nominees/RedOne/RED%20ONE.jpg

In fact looking at those two cameras side by side I wouldn't be surprised if some phone calls to patent lawyers have been made....


-Noah

[Maxim]

If I had the money I would buy one no question. I can still shoot ultra slowmotion HD, and have the ability to switch between Resolutions and great HDR.

And if your comparing looks, thats pretty wrong. It doesn't matter what the camera looks like It matters what the image produced looks like.

[Hrvoje Simic]

What's also interesting is the provided list and links for other cameras.
Now how many companies do that ?

http://www.kinor.ru/technology/

[Gunleik Groven]

I guess the optics are Optica Elite...

or am I wrong?

Have anyone seen images from this thing?
What kind of data is it recording?

Gunleik

[Noah Kadner]

If I had the money I would buy one no question. I can still shoot ultra slowmotion HD, and have the ability to switch between Resolutions and great HDR.

And if your comparing looks, thats pretty wrong. It doesn't matter what the camera looks like It matters what the image produced looks like.

Um are you the inventor or something- your english phrasing sounds just like that web site. And you're right- who cares about the looks. Well ok maybe the producers funding a film wondering if the camera can make it through a shoot, etc.

To me this looks like a one-off speculative camera from a one-man band camera company in Russia hoping to get some attention and maybe some orders of its prototype gear. The website looks like it was put up in about 5 minutes using Alta-Vista babelfish translation. Kinda cheap and obvious in that way. But happy to be proven wrong.

Noah

[Steve Sherrick]

I just checked in with them and I can order one now and they will build it. The only downside is that it will take 4 years to build. I might just keep my Red instead.:biggrin:

[Mitch Gross]

This is nothing new. And until I see it in front of me for real it is vaporware.

[Maxim]

Ofcorse I am not the inventor.Its just you jump to the conclusions with barely no proof of them.

I watched footage from there 4K and it looks great and a full kit at only 20,000 euros. To me sounds like a good deal, so I assume they will do a good job with the DCX.

Like I said its a made to order camera with many options, there not premade like there other cameras.

Noah I assume you have some experiance in the bussiness since you own a RED but you would know producers look at the best looking footage reproduced. I may be making a film for Channel 4 (Big channel in the UK). And I will be using an HV20 with a Brevis and some other pieces of kit.

EDIT: 4 Years, ouch.
I wish I had a RED but I can't afford one :(

[Giancarlo Bianchi]

Unlimited dynamic range!!???

What a estatement, Steve Sherrick, tell me if its true in 4 years ok?

Anyway, how much are they asking for this "bussiness killer"?

[Hrvoje Simic]

I seem to remember the similar attitude shown when one guy said he'd build a 4k camera few years ago...with no experience whatsoever in camera production...now every-freakin'-body is a supporter.

Yes the website sucks and yes someone needs to work on marketing and industrial design, but I totally respect the effort and the people who chose to be creative, especially in this industry. Judging by the location of this company I guess that they also have a "slightly" larger challenge...and I personally wish them all the best.

Seeing people piss on anything but RED is annoying.

[Lexicon]

There are demo files available for the 2K if anyone wants to see them. I'm downloading them right now but it would seem that their website is missing a lot of files so I'm only getting one or two of them.

[Steve Sherrick]

I was kidding of course about the 4 years. :-)

Omen, I see where you are coming from on this. I tend to keep an open mind towards everything. If I saw footage from it that blew me away, I would certainly be interested in it. It was seeing footage from the Red projected onto a big screen that finally sealed the deal for me to buy the camera. I would need the same kind of selling point with any camera. The proof is in the images and how they hold up when projected. I wish any entrepreneur luck with their endeavors because being a small business is not easy and takes a lot of blood, sweat, and determination just to have a chance, nevermind actually succeeding. So, I wish this company nothing but the best in getting things off the ground.

[Giancarlo Bianchi]

Well, I do too admire people who is creative (Im not a red fan boy). Anyhow, if the could bring 16K, Unlimited dynamic range and over 5000fps, image what JIM could do, if the technology is there.
The way I see it, if they really have created something as close as they offer, I see a merge of industries, and the European RED facility being on Russia.

But let`s be real. The way the camera is announced, and "unlimited dynamic range", seems far from a fair deal. And RED unfortunately also oppened the door for new kind of scams. (Many people tought red was a scam, they prove not, so another company could also prove a new prototype or a brick in a box).

[Lexicon]

Hmm...okay, not much in the demos. This is certainly something to keep an eye on though I don't think it's a RED competitor at this point. They clearly have a long way to go before harnessing the power of whatever sensor they paid for. If anything it almost looks like someone was going through RED's garbage and decided to use the notes to make their own camera. There is one demo clip that looks kinda like it was shot with an early RED camera.

[Gunleik Groven]

Kinor's been in business for a while, so this would be more in the D21 line of things than the RED. (I am not talking technicalities, more: herritage)

As Noah says, it can be done and is done by quite a few. Weisscam, and the other german thingy, the s16mm digital Swede and Silicon Imaging all share similarities with RED and Kinetta.

The fun part with RED - even though it is the most sold of them - is that even with a billionaire backing the development and a couple of thousand cams out in a year - the whole system still have places to mature and workflows to make easy.

Not really pulling a Sony here, but I think that might be an even harder trick to pull off without extended user base and low liquidity.

just my 2c

G

[Kyle Presley]

The site's now down...

[Maxim]

They have footage out for there 2K, and They will also soon have footage for there 4K out. so I don't think it is a scam

[Radoslav Karapetkov]

If they manage to make this really real, why not?

Competition is a good thing.

But it seems rather obscure right now and this does not inspire confidence.

In a world where RED is prowling, a competitive camera company has to be at least as open and user-friendly as RED is.

Otherwise they're lost.

Not only these Kinor brothers ( ;) ), but Sony and all the other companies.

RED has raised the bar very much with their price\performance and the attitude towards users.

The new (camera) world order.

Good for us. :)

[Mitch Gross]

I'm all for more tools in he arsenal. This is nothing new. The Kinor stuff has been floating out there for a few years now. We've been invloved with Phantom for more than two years and have been well aware of what else is and isn't out there and how real any of it is. I wouldn't be fretting the Kinors too much.

[Noah Kadner]

Yeah I'd be curious what sort of track record and funding Kinor has. Doesn't look like much. It's easy to make a website and throw together off the shelf components. I have no doubt they can build one camera with those specs, but...

Do they have the necessary funding to run a production line and do quality assurance testing of all their gear in quantity? Do they have the staff to interface with necessary 3rd party vendors and software developers or do they expect you won't want to bother to edit your footage? Do they have technical and service support worldwide, etc?

RED might have seemed like a longshot a few years back to the hardcore naysayers but they had massive funding and a CEO with a decades-old record of delivering innovative, successful products. I just don't see that here.

Noah

[Brandon Fraley]

how much does it cost?

[David Wilson]

The vicissitudes of politics occasionally aside, I love Russia and its inexhaustible inventiveness. (Levsha!)

[Jens Jakob Thorsen]

I guess the optics are Optica Elite...
or am I wrong?

Gunleik
You are correct.
I own a set, they are really nice. I shoot everything except ana on them, RED and 35mm

JJ

[Priyesh P.]

If this is the same Kinor company that I know then their track record was mainly to rip off other companies designs. As far as I know it was the moviecam superamerica that they`ve copied.
http://www.konvas.info/d/3039-2/KINOR+35H.jpg
http://www.cineused.com/moviecam4.jpg

(but other russian companies took their "inspiration" as well from arri or eclair )

http://indi35.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/Konvas_side_200ft.311234652_std.jpg
http://www.bifi.fr/upload/bibliotheque/Image/espace%20patrimonial/ARTICLES/2007/ECLAIR/cameflex.jpg

[Mark B.]

It sounds like their DCX camera is using sensors laid edge to edge to get a high resolution. That's going to cause image problems at the sites between the sensor chips, especially at the chip-to-chip corners. I think if they want to get serious consideration they're going to have to use a single monolithic image sensor.

Not sure if I'd want to buy Russian products right now anyway, what with Russia being somewhat aggressive in it's territorial actions. Gotta spread the love to get the business.

[Chris Christensen]

If anything it almost looks like someone was going through RED's garbage and decided to use the notes to make their own camera. There is one demo clip that looks kinda like it was shot with an early RED camera.RED's garbage you say? I seem to remember a certain theft from the RED office, hehe. :sorcerer:

[Harrison Diamond]

It sounds like their DCX camera is using sensors laid edge to edge to get a high resolution. That's going to cause image problems at the sites between the sensor chips, especially at the chip-to-chip corners.

Where have I seen that before...

This...Is....CINERAMA!:sarcasm:

[Benni Diez]

On the other hand you get kind of an Imax-y DoF.

[David Wyatt]

Those are quite some claims on their phenomenally poorly designed website (I imagine they must be putting all their time into designing cameras rather than websites:)).

With enough backing anyone can promise 4K, 8K and even 16K cameras (especially over quite a long time period) - whether the results will be satisfactory, and the price realistic for all that R&D, is unclear.

I can also see the attraction of high frame rates, but what are you going to show your 8K and 16K material on?? Cinemas have only just been dragged kicking & screaming into 2K (with 4K projectors still as rare as hens teeth).