NAB frame grabs... [Archive]

Hitman Jr

04-20-2007, 03:16 PM

I'm now thinking of posting several frme grabs but not the movie. It just doesn't do it justice to see it small and compressed. Maybe we'll schedule several showings for those that couldn't make NAB.
Jim

Ah man! Okay if that is the case how about a showing during August in Las Vegas at the Wedding and Event Videographers Expo? I know there is a few of my compatriots buying Red One and I'm very interested in Red Mini for wedding and event work. Would love to see the demo at WEVA.com Expo!

Stephen Webb

04-20-2007, 03:20 PM

Jim,

Please bring it to the UK! I guess you'll be showing it at IBC, but I'd love to see a showing over here before that if it's in any way possible. And I'm sure there's a few of us who wouldn't mind help sorting it out.

Tom Lowe

04-20-2007, 03:21 PM

Oh man, those are freakin beautiful!

Jim, 1080p can do it plenty of justice. We are used to seeing film and trailers at 1080p, so we have frame of reference. It would be a good way for us to see how most initial Red cinema projects will ultimately be displayed = at 1080p.

Even if you shoot 4K, transfer to 35, and project it at your local multiplex, you are not going to see it resolve greater than 1080p anyway, really.

Álex Montoya

04-20-2007, 03:22 PM

Would help to show the movie here in Spain to some ppl interested in investing in a RED.
A couple H.264 1920*1080 scenes shouldn't weight more than a 200-300 MB...

PaulClements

04-20-2007, 03:22 PM

Looks amazing... are you going to be posting the footage in the next hour or so? because if you are I might stick around rather than sleeping lol.

Gunleik Groven

04-20-2007, 03:22 PM

errrr... would really not mind seeing it in 1080 h.264!

It will probably not do the cam _full_ justice, but man..... It won't really be youtubed either.

Pretty please with sugar on:
Throw us guys who couldn't make it to NAB a small bone. At least the res-holders through some high-tech login scheme -;)

Cheers and congratultions!

Gunleik

PaulClements

04-20-2007, 03:26 PM

Just read the 2nd page.

It would be a shame not to post the footage. You are right that it doesn't do it justice, but many of us will likely end up buying the camera without even having a proper taster, unless you do some serious roadshows.

Stills are good, but this is a motion picture camera. The images tell us little more than a digital slr might.

I hope you reconsider Jim because I and many others have been chomping at the bit to see it.

Brian Kaz

04-20-2007, 03:27 PM

Awesome stills!

Please reconsider, Jim. 1080p vid, even if it's selected portions of the film. Small may not do it justice, but we NEED to see movement.

Steve Gibby

04-20-2007, 03:27 PM

...because if you are I might stick around rather than sleeping lol.

LOL - sleep is over-rated! Who's been sleeping anyway?

Jared VanLeuven

04-20-2007, 03:28 PM

Corrado Silveri

04-20-2007, 03:30 PM

I will not sleep for a week or so...
Waiting for the torrent to complete the download, watching every kbyte loaded...

If only...

Sam Druckerman

04-20-2007, 03:32 PM

Ahhh, just what I needed to bring it back....

Thanks Jim, great to meet you and the team at the show.....

STEALER JOB RED TEAM.

Crazy idea, I was thinking how cool it would be if you could release the short in theaters as an extra bonus in front of a feature film. I remember when Lucas ran the preview for star wars....

I know it's probably not possible, but imagine how many people might be able to see it and after all, you do have a knack for making the impossible >POSSIBLE.

Joshua Murray

04-20-2007, 03:35 PM

Zac C

04-20-2007, 03:35 PM

You have to post it, i haven't been staring that that panel in the store menu for the past 2 days for nothing!

Martin Drew

04-20-2007, 03:35 PM

This is very good stuff, well done Red team. I would love to see one or two frames in 4K if possible. Please! ...Oh and 4K projection in the UK.

M

Brook Willard

04-20-2007, 03:38 PM

JCallahan

04-20-2007, 03:41 PM

Very impressive. I'd love to see even a little bit of this footage show up online.

Gavin Greenwalt

04-20-2007, 03:42 PM

How about a Cinerama seattle stop. Next week up and down the west coast.

San Diego Monday, LA Tuesday, San Fran Wednesday, Portland Thursday and Seattle Friday! Road Trip!

Jannard

04-20-2007, 03:42 PM

OK... good suggestions. We will check for permission to post a couple of scenes at 2K. Give us a couple of days or so.

Jim

Steve Gibby

04-20-2007, 03:43 PM

39 posts in 39 minutes! I'd say Da Boyz are hungry...

Justin Kirchhoff

04-20-2007, 03:44 PM

Those are awesome Jim. Thanks for posting. Can't wait for more!

Corrado Silveri

04-20-2007, 03:45 PM

Mike Prevette

04-20-2007, 03:45 PM

The temporal resolution of the camera needs to be evaluated, and that will come through even if you posted a 320x240 QT. This film was supposed to be a real world test. Well, I'm in the real world, and I watch all kinds of motion content via the web and not on a 4k projector. You've sold me on this system and completely earned my trust, but I'd still like to see it in action.

As time goes on the "small screen" ie your computer has become a more dominant force, and I'm sure in the future a huge percentage of my content will end up there. So don't shun it just because it's low res compared to the 4k raw.

_mike

Brian Kaz

04-20-2007, 03:46 PM

OK... good suggestions. We will check for permission to post a couple of scenes at 2K. Give us a couple of days or so.

Jim

My hero!

Jeff Kilgroe

04-20-2007, 03:49 PM

Definitely would like to see more still frames. At full res would be great!

The full video in 1080p would be nice... I wouldn't mind seeing some 1080p clips of it that are cropped segments showing 1:1 pixels (as much as the web compression allows).

Feed me!

Mike the beginner

04-20-2007, 03:52 PM

OK... good suggestions. We will check for permission to post a couple of scenes at 2K. Give us a couple of days or so.

Jim

Yer aff yer heed man but i love you:)

Mike the beginner

Clayton Harper

04-20-2007, 03:52 PM

It's true the frame grabs don't do it justice. The sound design of the film is amazing as well.

I say 1080p quicktime! I need to see it again!!!!

Adrian T.

04-20-2007, 03:53 PM

OK... good suggestions. We will check for permission to post a couple of scenes at 2K. Give us a couple of days or so.

Jim

Now I'm a happy boy! :usd:

Yash Keough

04-20-2007, 03:57 PM

Frames look awesome Jim! :D No contrasty video look it seems. :) A 1080p or 2K would be great though. :) Plus it would just be sweet to see the whole film...PJ is the filmmaker who got me into wanting to get into the industry by making Lord of the Rings (which is like my generation's Star Wars) and his work is a huge inspiration!

jbeale

04-20-2007, 04:03 PM

I know how painful it is to pull out all the stops for the best quality and then see final delivery in a low quality medium. Still, up to this point, all of the world's best cinematography has ended up on a standard-def DVD for home viewing. I think a 1080p version would still have plenty of "wow" factor! And needless to say, an online version expands your audience about five orders of magnitude over any in-person showings.

Also, pretty much all serious movies have short trailers for online previews. Even if the full movie can't be posted, surely PJ & co. could be convinced to cut together a quick trailer?

Damien Molineaux

04-20-2007, 04:11 PM

OK... good suggestions. We will check for permission to post a couple of scenes at 2K. Give us a couple of days or so.

Jim

What power lies in your hands, after having killed a few reduser I think you've resurected them ! The pics are beautiful, but yes some moving images would be great. I'm with NoahK, I would love to see the whole film, and while I'm sure nothing compares to seeing it projected in 4K, I'm sure a good H.264 1080p version would be absolutely amazing. I would love to have that to show all these people who have been hearing me go on and on about this camera since IBC last year. I'll be at IBC this year and hopefully able to see the Peter Jackson film, and probably a bunch of other footage, probably from the first Red owners, hell, I should have my Red One by then ! Anyhow all those curious, sceptics, potential clients; I'm sure, would be on their as.. with just a 1080p version of the film. That is indeed how a lot of Red footage will end up anyhow, so a good test for sure. I'm seeing potential clients next week, a little sample could help in getting them to sign at the bootom of the page !

Cheers,
Damien

PaulClements

04-20-2007, 04:12 PM

Might sound odd, but I wasn't too bothered about the quality of the video anymore, I've always known it's going to be great and the feedback from NAB has told the world that anyway. I was kind of interested in Peters short as a whole and the fact is was filmed with a camera that I will one day be using. I like the idea of seeing the first story told with a RedOne. It's one of those things you show your friends or family and say, look this is a taste of what digital cinematography can do, and I'll own one that can do it! If you choose not to show it all then I understand, it's your perogative, it's your baby and you want the world to see it looking as good as possible. I just hate to think I might never get the chance to see it in full and if I ever do it'll be in such a long time that I won't be all that bothered about it by then. I guess it's my fault for not going to NAB :)

Tony Lorentzen

04-20-2007, 04:14 PM

OK... good suggestions. We will check for permission to post a couple of scenes at 2K. Give us a couple of days or so.

Jim

What?! You have to be kidding - another couple of days? You're killing us! :blink:

PaulClements

04-20-2007, 04:15 PM

It's not even like we could collectively bribe Jim to show it either :)

Brian Kaz

04-20-2007, 04:21 PM

The operative part of Jim's post is We will check for permission to post a couple of scenes at 2k

Maybe Peter doesn't want everyone to have a nice 1080p+ copy of his full short to keep for themselves?

Tony Lorentzen

04-20-2007, 04:23 PM

Why would we try to bribe him? If he doesn't want to show it then it'll just have to be that way, but I just don't understand why posting JPEG framegrabs is better than posting actual footage?

Patrik Forsberg

04-20-2007, 04:24 PM

If you bring the 4k, i'll provide the proj 'n steak

see you in sunny stockholm

Patrik:-)

dewman

04-20-2007, 04:27 PM

Excellent images, Jim! Just as we all thought they would be. Can't wait to see the video.

Shawn Bannon

04-20-2007, 04:32 PM

Tom Lowe

04-20-2007, 04:37 PM

OK... good suggestions. We will check for permission to post a couple of scenes at 2K. Give us a couple of days or so.

Jim

May your name be recorded for a thousand years, Jannard!

Ruairi Robinson

04-20-2007, 04:38 PM

Well, RED made the Hollywood Reporter website front page...

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/content_display/television/features/e3i2108d7f83a3df2b490c1717d566cde82

R.

PaulClements

04-20-2007, 04:40 PM

Why would we try to bribe him? If he doesn't want to show it then it'll just have to be that way, but I just don't understand why posting JPEG framegrabs is better than posting actual footage?

Sorry... was meant as a joke, guess it wasn't funny

Emmanuel Cambier

04-20-2007, 04:44 PM

Come on Jim don't be shy.

h.264 1080p would be awesome, and we need to see this movie as a whole.

if you ad a few 4k grabs, it should make it a complet kit for us to demo to clients and futur Redone buyers.

Emmanuel

laguun

04-20-2007, 04:44 PM

Hello,

we are having a regular event in Studio Babelsberg Berlin where Fritz Langs Metropolis and so many other fine films (and some terrible in 1939-1945 ones) have been shot.

the studio
http://www.studiobabelsberg.com/
the event (sorry only in german)
http://hdatwork.de/

the one-day event attracts 400-500 producers, dops, directors etc and is called "hd at work". every 3 months the local producers show what they are working on and releasing next - in the wonderful studio babelsberg presentation cinema on a sony srx 4k beamer.

last time arris d20 was featured in great detail, several "experts" on stage said that "red can´t do what they announce" "its imposible to build such a sensor" - the usual stuff we kept hearing until now.

we showed some parts of our last full feature "sovia" and i didn´t comment the redbashing besides a simple remark, that we have 2 red ones coming. most people didn´t even know what red is and whats it all about.

now, for our next slot, i was planning showing parts of our next fullfeature - but instead of that, i think it might be much more interesting to empty our slot and give that on to red, allowing red to show "crossing the line" in full 4k glory (dvs clipster + sony srx are the infrastructure).

that certainly would be -the- ideal introduction for germany and offer interested customers and reservationholders the oppurtunity to see red 4k in its full glory, and also could be the first meeting for all the german reservationholders.

i would propose that directly to the members of the board - would that make sense for red or is it impossible due to copyright issues? the next event starts 06/20/2007.

p.s.
ludwig with its 5 red on orders wanted to come last time all the way from Munich, but couldn´t make it due to an illness. i would have no problem to also propose him for our slot, his rentalcompany is wellrespected in Germany.

Hrvoje Simic

04-20-2007, 04:46 PM

Fenomenal pics. Can't wait to see the rest of material.

With all the benefits of having Peter Jackson shooting the footage - the downside is this wait for the rest of us, caused by all the permissions needed for showing the actual footage we have all been waiting for.

I know you all want to give the best impression of your achievment, but at this point I would be happy with any new framegrabs.

Maan, just press the red button and quench our thirst. Show our dear crew waving and that's it. You all seem like a cool crew. So be cool. Why not ? It's your camera. No one will get the wrong impression "Oh that picture is not so perfect as I've imagioned" or "Gosh, these guys are so unserious" and what not. You allready fascinated thousands of people.
Anything. "HI RED USERS!". 20-30 sec. Compress and downscale to 20-30 Mb H.264 1080p and we'll live with that until the rest can be shown.
No permissions necessary and you can do it right now.
Plus it will be a great memory for everyone for years to come.

Oh, c'mon! :matrix:

yeah, this may leave a wrong impression, and I can think of a few negative comments on this, but.........what the heck...

Tony Lorentzen

04-20-2007, 04:52 PM

Sorry... was meant as a joke, guess it wasn't funny

Ah - you meant that we couldn't afford to bribe him with enough money to make it attractive enough? I'm quite sure you're right about that :biggrin:

Matthew Verkler

04-20-2007, 04:53 PM

When I pull up the 4k frame grabs of the milk girls for my clients on my 30 inch Apple monitor, jaws drop. And then I pan and tilt (so to speak) to show how much more there is of the frame. That's when I need to break out the tissue box.

4K frame grabs please!

Justin O'Neill

04-20-2007, 05:10 PM

The RED One is such a huge leap in technology that there is currently no way to display the footage in it's full glory for the average human being. The RED's pricepoint DOES put it in reach of mere mortals however. Are we going to shoot our projects and then wait to show them until we can get access to one of the few 4k theaters in existence? Or print it up to 35mm?

I think it is important to show that footage from the RED still looks amazing in a format most people can view. This is how most of us are going to have to deliver our projects for the time being, after all.

Joel Kaye

04-20-2007, 05:17 PM

STEALER JOB RED TEAM.

The "stealer job" they did was to steal the show at NAB.

I walked around with my "Red Reservation Holder" badge and A LOT of people asked me what was going on at the RED booth and why the line was so long (all day long for three days). RED, like Apple has done a great job of marketing. And RED has done it without really marketing old school.

AVID on the other hand... OMG... the only seats you could find at NAB were at the AVID independent film portion of their booth. They probably had 20 seats with 6 filled. Down at Apple they had hundreds of seats filled constantly for 3 days.

Anyway - the motion looks great. There was even a bunch of air to air WWI combat in the short. Plenty of camera moves, tough lighting and everything.

Also remember - they got 9 stops and it looked great. Since then RED has been bumped to 11 stops - or so I've been told. Plan on a 20+ lb camera though. The fully loaded one on display was around 40lbs. As impressive as RED is, you'll be more blown away by how much Peter shot in TWO DAYS with a camera they had to rig things up for in their machine shop.

I vote for a few key 4k stills posted and a 1080P movie posted. You guys have to remember that even though this is a 4K camera A LOT of the content shot with it will end up on the Internet as VOD etc. so it's a fair request. Apple's newest Compressor should do the trick. Or use a hardware compression solution - just use the BEST compression you can buy. Take it out of your marketing budget.

casey warren

04-20-2007, 05:30 PM

those frame grabs look really good! cant wait for the footage ;)

Alexander Black

04-20-2007, 05:32 PM

Jim, I'd love to see full uncompressed frames of a few things I remember from the film:

The low angle shot of the soldier where you could see every individual wool fiber that made up his jacket
RED's selects :)
A few where you point out problems that are being fixed - particularly the underexposed shot in the cockpit
At least one that has an area of clipped overexposure. I believe there is such a shot in the dogfight when the camera faces the sun, and another where there are highlights on the wings of the plane pursuing the "pilot protagonist"
The darkest shot in the film

Heh, and it sounds like there will be a revolt if there isn't some 1080, I can understand why. But for those that have not seen this projected, I second Jim's sentiment. It will look great at 1080, but it won't have the same jaw and panty dropping effect as 4k projection.

Some of the raw ungraded frames with "after /graded" frames would also be VERY useful.

Brook Willard

04-20-2007, 05:35 PM

If I could choose one shot to see again and again, it'd be the helicopter shot where the two planes are chasing each other at a low altitude through some trees while dozens of sheep freak out on the ground below. It's an absolutely gorgeous shot... the kind that sent chills down my spine every time I watched the film.

Keith Nealy

04-20-2007, 05:35 PM

Thanks guys... this means a lot to us. I had to cancel my trip to NAB at the last moment.

The pix look amazing. Can't wait to see more... so you guys rest up for a few minutes...

THEN GET BACK TO WORK!! :construction:

(only kidding, have a great well-deservd weekend)

aloha,

Keith

Alexander Nikishin

04-20-2007, 05:37 PM

The most memorable shot for me was when the planes were dimly lit as they prepared to go up. They were magic hour backlit with the golden fields of wheat blowing below the wheels!

ABSOLUTELY GORGEOUS! That shot made me realize just how much more beautiful Red can be than 35 at times.

Adrian T.

04-20-2007, 05:54 PM

But for those that have not seen this projected, I second Jim's sentiment. It will look great at 1080, but it won't have the same jaw and panty dropping effect as 4k projection.

Of course not! But seeing it at 1080P is still better than not seeing it at all!

Jim, please have pity on us reservation holders all over the world who could not make it to NAB!

Keith Nealy

04-20-2007, 05:59 PM

Thanks Jim, If you can do it, as much of it as you can show will do Red more good than anything else IMHO.

As a marketer, "third party endorsement" is an extrememly powerful tool and let's face it, people want to see ANYTHING Peter Jackson does - AND - if he does it with RED - his power or "mana", as we call it in Hawaii, gets transferred to RED and they become linked together in the minds of the viewer.

The stills are great and show the resolving power of the camera - but the footage is what Peter Jackson can do with it - and if the film as good as everyone says it is, and I have no doubts it is, RED will sell itself and get more publicity (free advertising) than you could have hoped for.
I have no doubt you thought of this when you when you got him to do it... I'm just reminding you of the big picture (pun intended).

Aloha,

Keith

Jarred Land

04-20-2007, 06:01 PM

What?! You have to be kidding - another couple of days? You're killing us! :blink:

Dont worry guys i will get them encoded as quick as I can.. But im not gonna put them up until they are perfect so go get some sleep...

Luke Boyce

04-20-2007, 06:10 PM

Dudes, its a Peter Jackson movie. I'd be happy to see it at anything better than dvd resolution. Just the idea that somebody has already completed a movie with the Red Camera is awesome. If I have to pay to download it off of itunes, no big deal. If you have a 4k screening of it in Los Angeles next friday with Peter Jackson in person, even better.

I agree. The thing you've got to remember, Jim, is that a lot of us just want to see the filmic look this camera can achieve. You've got to realize that it's not just about the 4K to everybody. I realize that seeing this in 4k would be incredible, but honestly that's not the most important thing to me. It's viewing a film-like picture that is not film. So honestly, my jaw would probably drop even at 720p for crying out loud, as long as I got to see an actual film filmed with the RED. Not to mention it's a movie by Peter Jackson!

The other thing, I'd like to for you to consider, Jim, is that even though I'm more than convinced that this thing is revolutionary and the best investment my production company has ever made, my financial partners don't understand what makes it so good. To them, this camera could end up looking just like the HVX200 we bought a year ago. 4k means nothing to them. 35mm sensor? What's that, they say. To them, film is film and video is video and they don't understand why the RED changes that because they have to see it to understand it. I desperately need this film so that I can show it to them and finally let them get as excited about this investment as I am, cause so far I've been the only one hooping and hollering. Not to mention, we live in the middle of hodunk, Illinois so I don't think, even if you do a footage tour, you'll stop by anywhere near us. We're a few hours away from Chicago alone. So I beg of you, please reconsider not releasing the film. I've been promising them all week that they were going to see this "incredible" footage that I've been going on and on about.

I realize that that's probably not a good enough reason to do something that you feel strongly about, but it is my humble request from a devoted reservation holder. I probably would have been in the top 100 if it hadn't taken me awhile to convince my partners to invest in this camera. And I still was able to make it to #456. So I am a dedicated RED believer!

miskamagic

04-20-2007, 06:15 PM

A new york screening sometime in the next few months would be very cool and heavily attended, I would think. I am so curious to see what 4k looks like projected after all the reviews from NAB.

-miska

Kjetil Haugen

04-20-2007, 06:22 PM

Jarred Land

04-20-2007, 06:23 PM

come on guys.. dont push to hard, dont look the gifthorse in the mouth....

Brian Kaz

04-20-2007, 06:26 PM

But for those that have not seen this projected, I second Jim's sentiment. It will look great at 1080, but it won't have the same jaw and panty dropping effect as 4k projection.

Yeah, but how many RED owners will ever see their footage at 4k in the near future? 1%?

I've got a 10 foot screen and sit 13 feet back on 1080p material. It looks beautiful and that's good enough for me. I don't need panties to drop.

At least, not while I'm watching a movie ;) .

Tom Lowe

04-20-2007, 06:33 PM

Lol, guys, it already sounds like Jim heard us, so no need to push the point. We all know the score, and it sounds like some 1080p samples might be on their way.

Bruce Allen

04-20-2007, 06:50 PM

I'm now thinking of posting several frme grabs but not the movie. It just doesn't do it justice to see it small and compressed. Maybe we'll schedule several showings for those that couldn't make NAB.

Jim

Aww... I was promising my friends in South Africa I'd download the highest quality version and bring it back to them when I go home in Sept. We were going to have a little Red party and watch the film together. They are all totally psyched to see this! Sample scenes are not as much fun.

I don't think you need to compress it much. We're patient folk. Bittorrent is fine, no need to kill your servers. If you want to sell preloaded pocket drives, I'd buy one though!

I don't know about everyone else but I get most of my jobs via referrals, backed up by my web reel. If you are telling me that you can't really see the beauty of Red over the internet, then it means that the Red camera is overkill for me and I should buy a HV20 + 35mm adapter instead and spend the rest on the things that will be visible on the web until I am "discovered"...

Personally though I'm totally sure we'll see the difference.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

Manfred Lopez

04-20-2007, 07:07 PM

I have an idea... Post the damn thing in full 4K glory... Then those who can see it in 4K can download it... and those of us who can't, promise not download it :innocent:

Its a win-win situaion.

By the way, if films are only meant to be shown in their full projected glory... then why do DVD'd exist?

Shadow

04-20-2007, 07:09 PM

Hum ! They look pretty good. Very sharp. Do i have to sell my house for one of this toy.:)

Matt Setnes

04-20-2007, 07:20 PM

:sad: That is great! So great a tear nearly came to my eye. Seriously

damonbots

04-20-2007, 07:42 PM

Beautiful stills!!!

While we're waiting for NAB footage approval, how about a snippet of that
top secret drag race footage? It's gotta be lovely

Jannard

04-20-2007, 07:47 PM

Beautiful stills!!!

While we're waiting for NAB footage approval, how about a snippet of that
top secret drag race footage? It's gotta be lovely

We decided to NOT ever post footage from Frankie again. It is a test bed that has been replaced by the real thing. I plan to shoot new race footage pretty soon with "Romeo" and will post then...

Jim

Cory Schulthies

04-20-2007, 07:47 PM

I appreciate anything you guys show us. THANK YOU! those stills alone surpass my expectations. But please let us see the film in its entirety. I understand If Mr. Jackson doesn't want it released that way though. Have to respect the artists and all.

Brian Kaz

04-20-2007, 07:49 PM

So Jim, are you naming EVERY camera or will that be the owner's job? :)

Brook Willard

04-20-2007, 07:53 PM

I think the first 300 will have names. The cameras at the show all had names [Frankie, Boris, Natasha, Mars, Romeo, Silk, etc].

And the Spider's name is Tex.

Nikolai Vavilov

04-20-2007, 07:54 PM

If you need more russian names, I'll give you a list -)

Cory Schulthies

04-20-2007, 07:55 PM

So Jim, are you naming EVERY camera or will that be the owner's job? :)

Jim could name my first born child if he wanted to.

Brian Kaz

04-20-2007, 07:58 PM

I sense a future thread coming:

"So, what did YOU name your Red?"

Brook Willard

04-20-2007, 07:59 PM

Dibs on "TWD" :)

Gavin Greenwalt

04-20-2007, 07:59 PM

File -> Open
File -> Don't resize
File -> Save As -> Tiff -> [X] LZW

;)

Paul Hazlett

04-20-2007, 07:59 PM

hymie wisenpants the third, what else...

JustinGD

04-20-2007, 08:25 PM

In just a few months, the internet is going to be flooded with test footage. The RED team will upload some of their own footage to the internet before the first unit ships. If they don't, they might have someone like me upload my test footage and trust me, that is NOT a good marketing tool.

Jim, you know this and I'm sure you want the first samples available to look amazing. So in the near future, you will have to bite the bullet and show some sort of compressed video online right?

Compressed or not, it would be pretty hard to top something directed by Peter Jackson, so my guess is that there is something we don't know (critics, copyright, Peter Jackson is turning it into a feature) and once it is resolved, we will see it. OR Spike's footage has some sort of advantage over Boris and Natasha's footage and you don't want people to find some flaw that does not exist on the final camera.

Am I close? reduser.net is the best guessing game EVER!

-Justin

damonbots

04-20-2007, 08:47 PM

Jim could name my first born child if he wanted to.

He could name my camera "Damon, you're a total jerkoff" and I'd be happy as a clam. I'd bet a nickel that more than a few cameras get named Jim Jr.

Jannard

04-20-2007, 08:56 PM

You guys are too funny...

Jim

Daymon Hoffman

04-20-2007, 09:15 PM

i want TEX. ;)

Jannard

04-20-2007, 09:17 PM

i want TEX. ;)

$250,000 :-)

Jim

Zach Hilton

04-20-2007, 09:18 PM

Sold! To poster #101!

feb31films

04-20-2007, 09:21 PM

We're all so damn selfish on this board aren't we?:whistling:

I would personally LOVE to the a 1080P version of the movie, but the fact is that it's not our film. Assuming all the music clearances and such are taken care of, I suspect that any holdup may be due to the fact that Peter Jackson does not want to give away his film (or its concept) to the entire world for free. He obviously worked very hard to make it. 3 Days at trade show is one thing, but once its one the internet...

Let's assume that there's no objections from Jackson. I humbly suggest:
A 1080P torrent post on RED.COM for the pixel hungry bastards on this site &
A second version branded with the RED logo and information released on iTunes for free. A FREE PETER JACKSON FILM will break any video download Apple has had so far and what a way to get the RED name out to the masses. A portable version of this would be a handy sales tool for all RED users wanting to sell their services with the new camera. How many times have you met a potential new client and there just wasn't an HD projector or 30" Cinema Display handy? My 2 cents (can I credit those towards my camera purchase?)

Brook Willard

04-20-2007, 09:29 PM

$250,000 :-)

Jim

Is that for Tex or for PANATEX? :)

How about a mini "R" sized Tex for my desk? Does price scale exponentially with size? I have a perfect spot on my Cinema Display's foot...

Jeff Kilgroe

04-20-2007, 09:36 PM

$250,000 :-)

Jim

Oooh, that might strain the budget a bit... How about $2500? :blush: I'll pay shipping.

IAN SUN

04-20-2007, 09:40 PM

Well Jim if you do a tour, please place Toronto high on your list of stops. I've got a major rental company willing to sponsor a RED event here and we're rearing to go!

wshultz

04-20-2007, 09:43 PM

I want them to be named at least through #411.

damonbots

04-20-2007, 09:45 PM

A screening at Oakley would be pretty sweet. I promise I won't bring these guys...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJGU8-xthk8

Brian Kaz

04-20-2007, 09:46 PM

$250,000?

That thing better at least fetch my slippers.

Ace

04-20-2007, 09:57 PM

I just saw these frame grabs. I need a new keyboard (maybe monitor too). :D

I have to say, having missed NAB I would love to see the footage..err..Drivage..Bytage...

Andrew Benz

04-20-2007, 10:33 PM

I think the first 300 will have names. The cameras at the show all had names [Frankie, Boris, Natasha, Mars, Romeo, Silk, etc].

And the Spider's name is Tex.

http://www.uwm.edu/People/mickels2/thundercleese.gif

Well, it seems THUNDERCLEESE is a safe bet...

Alexander Nikishin

04-20-2007, 10:40 PM

I think the first 300 will have names. The cameras at the show all had names [Frankie, Boris, Natasha, Mars, Romeo, Silk, etc].

And the Spider's name is Tex.

Personalized names possibly?

Sanjin Jukic

04-20-2007, 10:49 PM

OK... good suggestions. We will check for permission to post a couple of scenes at 2K. Give us a couple of days or so.

Jim

Before posting the 2K/1080p QT web video could be a good idea to ask Apple about how they doing 1080p H264 with Hollywood film trailers. It is done obviously not with a software compressor (Compressor 3, etc...). Could be possible that is involved one solution with a hardware H264 compression. Graeme Nattress should know more details about that. And also for pushing it on the Internet they asked Akamai (http://www.akamai.com/) service. It costs but Hollywood is paying for that sort of advertising.

Chris Kenny

04-20-2007, 10:52 PM

$250,000 :-)

I knew there was a scam here somewhere. You're just dumping cheap 4K cameras on the market as a promotional stunt to market your overpriced spider robots!

Seriously, it's fun to see the sort of things that a bunch of really smart and creative people with easy access to a CNC machine do to relax. :biggrin:

BTW, maybe I'm just crazy, but I swear Culture ship names (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ships_(The_Culture)) seem like a perfect fit for Red cameras. Some highlights: "Nervous Energy", "Irregular Apocalypse", "No More Mr Nice Guy", "Just Read The Instructions", "So Much For Subtlety", "Just Testing", "Fate Amenable To Change", "Tactical Grace", "Steely Glint", "Frank Exchange Of Views", "Peace Makes Plenty", "Space Monster", "Resistance Is Character-Forming", "Lapsed Pacifist", etc.

Sanjin Jukic

04-20-2007, 11:11 PM

We decided to NOT ever post footage from Frankie again. It is a test bed that has been replaced by the real thing. I plan to shoot new race footage pretty soon with "Romeo" and will post then...

Jim

"...new race footage..." >>I'm waiting and I cannot sleep anymore!!!

casey warren

04-20-2007, 11:18 PM

Before posting the 2K/1080p QT web video could be a good idea to ask Apple about how they doing 1080p H264 with Hollywood film trailers. It is done obviously not with a software compressor (Compressor 3, etc...). Could be possible that is involved one solution with a hardware H264 compression. Graeme Nattress should know more details about that. And also for pushing it on the Internet they asked Akamai (http://www.akamai.com/) service. It costs but Hollywood is paying for that sort of advertising.

Apples secret: http://www.wiredrive.com/blog/2006/07/13/how-does-apple-compress-their-trailers-so-well/

But im not totally convinced that this explains it all, Apple has got to have something up their sleeve that they are not telling us.....

Sanjin Jukic

04-20-2007, 11:27 PM

I am sure that Jarred and Graeme will figure out that Apple compression magic soon.

Alexander Black

04-20-2007, 11:27 PM

If they are named from culture ships - an excellent idea, chris - I want GCU Grey Area ;)

Brook Willard

04-20-2007, 11:34 PM

I'd expect it'll be sent out as a motion JPEG file. Wavelet compression [I believe...] and 4:4:4 at higher quality.

Chris Kenny

04-20-2007, 11:36 PM

JPEG is DCT. JPEG2000 is wavelet. QuickTime supports JPEG2000, but the implementation doesn't seem to be optimized well enough to handle 1080p playback. (Or, at least, it wasn't the last time I tried.)

Mardi_Gras

04-20-2007, 11:40 PM

Jim, without any doubts, you can see from all of the posts tonight, that these are the ardent core Redheads. Anything short of the footage will be considered sacrilegious and quite simply, unRedly (obviously a new word).

While we await the footage to go up in whatever format you decide upon, we (I) will NOT sleep!

dalen johnson

04-20-2007, 11:52 PM

come on guys.. dont push to hard, dont look the gifthorse in the mouth....

I know what your trying to say, but I have never understood that expression.
Does it imply it will bite?

Peace

Dalen

M. Bergeron

04-21-2007, 12:09 AM

Not sure if someone suggested that but...

What about a DVD with the highest quality possible. SHEER codec would be nice. Highest quality PhotoJPEG quicktime is easily playable at 2k and 11 minutes would fit a DVD and have great quality (you elready post grabs in JPG so should be the same but moving). With a JPEG2000 file we could reencode it to other lossless format for viewing.

That could be added in the store... for some $

peter roehsler

04-21-2007, 12:18 AM

Why don´t you watermark it and do a 35mm filmout? Loaner prints could be made available to professional organisations worldwide, labs etc.

Brook Willard

04-21-2007, 12:25 AM

Showing people what is possible with a new digital cinema camera by lasering to film just seems backwards. Nobody makes a drawing to show you how well the newest digital SLR performs...

peter roehsler

04-21-2007, 12:35 AM

Brook, you are right, it IS backwards. But there are a few screens around the world which have not got their 4k projectors yet :-)

Brook Willard

04-21-2007, 12:40 AM

Well I guess they'll just have to buy some 4K projectors then! I hear a certain company is working on some... :)

Daymon Hoffman

04-21-2007, 12:43 AM

$250,000 :-)

Jim

LOL - What were its main features again? :P

Give me half an hour with my vernier's and i'll make one myself (i'll even reverse engineer it into SolidWork's seems that's RED ONE's Creator (and my prefered CAD application). ;)

PS. Jim, some drag racing footage will be awesome. I'll show my father and get him exciting about technology just that little bit more (which will bring him up to 0) as thats an interest of his! I will even post footage of our supercharged 1000+ HP Studebaker when its finished and all shiny when i can buy RED's Pro Pocket Camera to get the footage with. :)

peter roehsler

04-21-2007, 12:47 AM

"Well I guess they'll just have to buy some 4K projectors then! I hear a certain company is working on some..."

Good point, Brook! I guess somebody better starts working on a delivery standard for 4K content soon ...

Stephen Gentle

04-21-2007, 01:05 AM

Excellent stills! It looks brilliant.

I'm now thinking of posting several frme grabs but not the movie. It just doesn't do it justice to see it small and compressed. Maybe we'll schedule several showings for those that couldn't make NAB.

Jim

I would much rather watch a 1080p or 2K h.264 movie (even 720p would be good) than watch it on youtube recorded with a video camera at a screening... Please post it online.

Sevenout

04-21-2007, 01:08 AM

First off, those stills look freakin' amazing. :love: I am aghast at how good they look and the amount of detail is incredible. Someone suggested printing a few 35mm/Super 35 prints as "demo reels," but someone else pointed out how that would defeat the purpose of an entire digital pathway. I must point out that film has at a solid 7-8 years left, and the "old guard" in Hollywood is not embracing digital as the future, just yet. Showing some of the old dogs the new tricks via the "analog" format, may very well sway some of the naysayers.

Sanjin Jukic

04-21-2007, 01:24 AM

If Jarred and the RED Team have problem with QT web compression they could also contact Ben Waggoner one of the industry's
leading compressionist

http://on10.net/blogs/benwagg/Rss/

http://digitalmediaacademy.org/aboutus/waggoner-procoder.html

Eirik Tyrihjel

04-21-2007, 01:27 AM

Thanks for the great stills, they look great - even on the crappy hotel tv I am surfing from...

Sadly I don' t think I will be able to put priority on going to Los Angeles, New York or even Amsterdam anytime soon. And I would really love to see the Peter Jackson movie, I am sure I am not alone.
So unless you guys are coming to Norwy to show it in 4K, please consider posting it.
a 1080p Quicktime will be awesome.

casey warren

04-21-2007, 01:30 AM

The RED team should just go on a worldwide RED roadshow, showcasing the footage shown and NAB.

Hit up some major theaters in big cities, etc. show the footage, theaters "accidentally" break their film projectors, and subsequently make reservations for the 4K projector...

peter roehsler

04-21-2007, 01:33 AM

" ... Showing some of the old dogs the new tricks via the "analog" format, may very well sway some of the naysayers."

That´s exactly what I meant, Sevenout. People tell me `yeah, on a computer screen, but how will it look in a theatre compared to `real´ film?´
I do hope that a RED 4K projector will speed up things. Market research estimates 17.000 digi-screens by 2010. A RED projector could easily multiply that number.

Ken K

04-21-2007, 02:42 AM

A screening at Oakley would be pretty sweet. I promise I won't bring these guys...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJGU8-xthk8

LOL... wow. Just... wow.

They should have shot that 4k.

Alexander Nikishin

04-21-2007, 02:54 AM

LOL... wow. Just... wow.

They should have shot that 4k.

WTF was wrong with those guys?!? :ninja:

Karl H

04-21-2007, 03:03 AM

Grabs look really good.

As an observation however, has anyone noticed a lot of noise in the blacks? If you ramp up the levels in photoshop you get a noise patterning similar to what I get from a DSLR pic taken at 1600 ISO. Which doesnt seem right for outdoor work.

Was the ISO of the camera fixed at a high level, or different for each shot?

If for example I take a pic from my canon 350D at 100/200 ISO and ramp the levels I can see no noise at all in the dark areas, this isnt true for some of the stills here. The ones I noticed it on more are the rolling cig shot and the c/u of te barrel.

Sorry if I'm being picky here, but If it wasnt me Im sure someone else would have been tinkering in photoshop with them.

Fix

04-21-2007, 03:22 AM

um.. compresed jpg should justify that i guess ;)

Ken K

04-21-2007, 03:26 AM

Heh, yeah I was gonna say... those images are about 1/3rd smaller than the 4k originals and compressed via lossy jpg. I'll wait for the 4k tiff grabs. :shifty:

Jonathan Payne

04-21-2007, 03:28 AM

Not to look a gift horse in the mouth but I personally still like Jim's suggestion to have some 4k screenings of this new footage. I skipped out on work at Lionsgate in Santa Monica to go see the original test footage at the Nuart and I've been raving about it ever since.

There is nothing quite like seeing the footage in 4K in a theater setting. Plus after that screening in Santa Monica I saw Jim and was going to go shake his hand and congratulate him but I chickened out (which is not something I'm prone to do...I guess it was my geek-awe that broke the camel's back).

Personally I'd be game to skip out on part of a work day at the 'Gate' again and it'd always be fun to get a second chance to shake Jim's hand too!

Karl H

04-21-2007, 03:29 AM

no thats not the issue, if you like i can post up some examples...

If i look at a compressed jpg from a 350D 200ASA then when you ramp the blacks its as clean as a whistle.

If you do the same thing with a 1600ASA image you get this noise patterning in the blacks which is almost identical to the Red footage. It isnt a jpg artifact.

Edit: if anything, shrinking the images from 4K to 1K should actually help to mask the noise in the image but it's still noticable, Im guessing this must be something to do with the sensitivity being too high on the alpha cameras?

Scott H. Jones

04-21-2007, 05:00 AM

i want TEX. ;)

What?!?! Okay, then I get AUSSIE.

Jonathan Payne

04-21-2007, 05:01 AM

The pattern noise issue has already been addressed in another thread. They said they know about it and that it will be fixed. I don't remember the particulars darkline but it has something to do with proper CCD/CMOS alingment.

Jim Arthurs

04-21-2007, 05:05 AM

BTW, maybe I'm just crazy, but I swear Culture ship names seem like a perfect fit for Red cameras.

I think I'll name my camera "Architect of Fear".

Anyway, my vote is for releasing the whole short in some form, even as a high quality QT at 720p, but the bigger the better. Those who didn't get to NAB will really appreciate it just for the story telling as well as the defining moment that it represents.

BTW, I think every REDDRIVE should come pre-loaded with the short in full 4K...

Karl H

04-21-2007, 05:19 AM

thanks jenga

funny thing is i cant see it on my normal monitor,but my laptop screen seems to show the noise up much more in the dark areas. i hope they manage to sort it out....

garageman

04-21-2007, 05:21 AM

I think I'll name my camera "Architect of Fear".

Anyway, my vote is for releasing the whole short in some form, even as a high quality QT at 720p, but the bigger the better. Those who didn't get to NAB will really appreciate it just for the story telling as well as the defining moment that it represents.

BTW, I think every REDDRIVE should come pre-loaded with the short in full 4K...

I think at this stage resevation holders deserve to see this footage at 1080p at least. Unless RED come to Dublin -which I doubt- I won't have a chance to see this footage at all for a good while. I think they should release it now before some "mediocre" shot RED footage appears online when the first batch of 50 or so cameras are shipped.

Jeremy Hughes

04-21-2007, 05:26 AM

Yeah, nice stills Jim. Can't wait to see the whole movie in 4K sometime...

Jeff Kilgroe

04-21-2007, 06:31 AM

Heh, yeah I was gonna say... those images are about 1/3rd smaller than the 4k originals and compressed via lossy jpg. I'll wait for the 4k tiff grabs. :shifty:

They're actually about 1/17 total pixel volume of 4K. 4K is 4.5 x 1080p.

Steakslim

04-21-2007, 11:25 AM

http://www.uwm.edu/People/mickels2/thundercleese.gif

Well, it seems THUNDERCLEESE is a safe bet...

ARE-YOU-HERE-TO-DESTROY-MY-LAWN!?

krobar

04-21-2007, 02:55 PM

come on guys.. don't push to hard, dont look the gifthorse in the mouth....

I know what your trying to say, but I have never understood that expression.
Does it imply it will bite?

Peace

Dalen

Not that this is at all off topic, but:

The expression "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth" comes from the early days when a horses value was determined largely by its age, and a horses age can be gleaned by looking at their teeth. Thus, it would be equivalent to: if you are given a present, don't look at the price tag; or when given a gift, don't be ungrateful.

But, who knows, maybe some of them bit too... :)

-Kurt

Steve Gibby

04-21-2007, 03:33 PM

While you're on the subject of old-time sayings, how about this one:

"Caught red-handed"

Actual history of that phrase: centuries ago, chicken stealing was a way to feed you family. They were stolen at night while they roosted in a shed or coop. Chickens tend to squawk when someone grabs them in their sleep (wouldn't you!), so the thieves had to silence them quickly - sometimes a bloody affair. In the process, the thieves usually got blood on their hands. If the ranchers or homeowners caught them, with blood on their hands, it came to be called "Getting caught red-handed".

Modern-day moral of the story: if you sneak into the "coop" (market) of a "sleeping" company (no shortage of those) and nab some of their livelihood (projects), thus taking food (money) off their table (bank account), and your tool is RED, and you get caught at it, you're getting "caught RED-handed"!

:ninja: