Shaky Dovetail/Bottom Plate

[Frank Mirbach]

Hi guys,

we´ve just detected a little problem with out new Red: There is some play between the Red Shoulder Dovetail and the Red Bottom Plate when mounted
together with the quick release closed. It is not possible to fasten the quick release of the Dovetail in a way the there is no movement between those two parts, which leaves the whole construction to be somewhat shaky on the tripod. Is that a known problem maybe?

Thanks,

Frank

[Cüneyt Kaya]

Hi guys,

we´ve just detected a little problem with out new Red: There is some play between the Red Shoulder Dovetail and the Red Bottom Plate when mounted
together with the quick release closed. It is not possible to fasten the quick release of the Dovetail in a way the there is no movement between those two parts, which leaves the whole construction to be somewhat shaky on the tripod. Is that a known problem maybe?

Thanks,

Frank

yes it is...the ET stuff is rocksolid and build for tripod use

[Alexander Christ]

It's a known problem, use the cheese plate for tripod work, that's rock solid.

[Frank Mirbach]

yes it is...the ET stuff is rocksolid and build for tripod use

wish I´d known that prior to my order. Does Red make an exchange for the Arri stuff they offer ?

[Cüneyt Kaya]

wish I´d known that prior to my order. Does Red make an exchange for the Arri stuff they offer ?


if you purchased the base production pack chances are low

[Frank Mirbach]

if you purchased the base production pack chances are low

I did...:umm: Just wrote to Marco. Can´t be ok to get something that´s supposed to be professional shaking on a tripod. I mean it´s MADE for that purpose, isn´t it ?

Same thing happened to you ? And you bought the ET stuff ?

[Frank Mirbach]

It's a known problem, use the cheese plate for tripod work, that's rock solid.

well, if Red does not offer something to get rid of that problem, we have no choice, I guess...

[Curran Giddens]

http://www.red.com/store/602009

To be used for handheld shooting. A CHEESE PLATE is recommended when extremely sturdy mounting applications (tripod, camera cart, Steadicam, etc) are required.

Gotta read the fine print.

[Cüneyt Kaya]

I did...:umm: Just wrote to Marco. Can´t be ok to get something that´s supposed to be professional shaking on a tripod. I mean it´s MADE for that purpose, isn´t it ?

Same thing happened to you ? And you bought the ET stuff ?

no, its not be made for tripod use....its for handheld, the tripod ability is for free.

---my ET stuff was here long before my RED.

[Frank Mirbach]

no, its not be made for tripod use....its for handheld, the tripod ability is for free.

---my ET stuff was here long before my RED.
I see. Well, cheeseplate, then...

[Frank Mirbach]

http://www.red.com/store/602009

To be used for handheld shooting. A CHEESE PLATE is recommended when extremely sturdy mounting applications (tripod, camera cart, Steadicam, etc) are required.

Gotta read the fine print.

I did ! Just thought that kind of tolerances isn´t possible...

[Larry McKee]

For what it's worth, my RED dovetail/shoulder mount is solid on the tripod. You might have just gotten a bad one. Maybe Marco can arrange a swap out.

[Joel Kaye]

well, if Red does not offer something to get rid of that problem, we have no choice, I guess...

Wait. Try some gaff tape or another spacer underneath the little pad on the dovetail that pushes up against the bottom plate. I have a bottom plate and dovetail that fit very securely once I did that.

(though I did have a custom cheese plate built in order to reduce overall weight. I just throw it on a shoulder pad when handheld)

[M Hsu]

yah, mine is too solid, I have to use a screwdriver to pry the locking lever open once it's locked. no movement though...

[Damien Molineaux]

It's a known problem, use the cheese plate for tripod work, that's rock solid.

No, the Cheese Plate is NOT rock solid.

The Bottom Plate Dovetail problem is effectively a well documented problem, and Red has still not really resolved this.

However, let it be known we have had severe problems with the Cheese Plate also. As has been well documented, the Bottom Plate (at least mine and many others) is slightly wider than the Red body, therefore when you tighten it with the four screws on the sides, it makes the bottom part of the Bottom Plate curve slightly. The Cheese Plate being attached with only two screws in it's center, it is not flush against the Bottom Plate. If you shake the camera left to right it will wobble. This has been very problematic on shots with the camera at the end of a moving crane, or any long camera support, in movement. As movement will often create slight vibrations, amplified by the long support, the camera will vibrate slightly.

The Cheese Plate is NOT the solution. Save those $300 and go straight for the Arri Base Plate, and I'll say it once again, I find it inapropritate that the 19mm Arri Base Plae is $300 (50%) more than it's 15mm equivalent.

Red please :

1. Sell the 19mm Arri Base Plate at the same Price as its 15mm version
2. Offer a new Base Production Pack without the Bottom Plate and Dovetail, but with choice of 19mm or 15mm Arri Base Plate, with a slight price increase naturally.

Cheers,
Damien

Who loves all things Red, except the Bottom Plate, Dovetail and Cheese Plate.

[ALLSTAR]

Hi Jones ,I made a dovetail for RED bottem plate, PM you.

[donatello b]

IMO the main problem with the Red cheese plate is TOO many steps to put it on/off combined with the TIME it takes to go from hand held to studio ....

a month or so ago somebody was offering a custom made dovetail ( for tripod use) that would slide into the Red bottom plate ... i think it was called ?? Allstar ?? it seems that would be a quick way to switch between hand held ( using Red dove tail) and studio ( Allstar) tripod use ...

using the Red hand help dove tail on a tripod might work if you keep the weight to under 20lbs ??

added ...I see ALLstar has posted above this post

[Jeff Kilgroe]

For what it's worth, my RED dovetail/shoulder mount is solid on the tripod. You might have just gotten a bad one. Maybe Marco can arrange a swap out.

Er... I have yet to see one that I would consider truly "solid". Not without extra modification and even then, it's still somewhat suspect.

If you want solid, the RED cheese plate is an absolute necessity. Or even better, get an Arri base and companion Arri dovetail plate. IMO, you should have this anyway. It's industry standard and will provide for a much better experience overall, especially if you rent your gear out and clients expect to place the camera on their tripods, dollies, etc...

[Brandon Fraley]

my bottom plate/shoulder dovetail is also ROCK solid. no issue at all.

If you're trying to save, I'd recommend talking to RED about replacing the faulty plate/dovetail. If you have the cash, then by all means buy the arri plate. everyone seems very happy with that.

One thing I don t understand are people saying "don't get the RED plate. Get the ET plate, it's industry standard". besides perhaps build quality, are the specs the same? Why is the ET plate called "industry standard"?

[Jeff Kilgroe]

The ET plate is "industry Standard" because it locks onto an Arri dovetail, which you will find all over the place. The RED plate is proprietary and uses a proprietary dovetail system to fit their shoulder wedge. There are a lot of advantages to using the Arri base system over the RED bottom plate.

[Brandon Fraley]

The ET plate is "industry Standard" because it locks onto an Arri dovetail, which you will find all over the place.

ahhh, your right, that does make sense. for the time being I'm still happy with the RED plate

[Larry McKee]

I was fully expecting to buy the ET plate because of all the bad reports about the RED dovetail/shoulder mount. But, when mine came in, I was happy to find that it was solid. I really like being able to just pop the camera off the tripod and go hand held. Since I am a freelance D.P. with my own gear, having to satisfy the rental market is not an issue. If the camera goes out, I go with it.

[Joel Kaye]

No, the Cheese Plate is NOT rock solid.

Huh. My custom cheesplate was milled to dovetail with the RED bottom plate so it truly is rock solid. Cost me $100. The AllStar plate looks nice though.

[Nils J. Nesse]

Is anybody using the Allstar dovetail? (Except Allstar himself?)

[Michael Morlan]

I started a thread some weeks ago that describes a DIY fix for the Red dovetail. I'm on my phone right now and will look up the link later.

Michael

[Rob Gardner]

Arrinick re-machined the Red shoulder-mount dove-tail to match the ET Arri bridge plate, (which also has an Arri rosette on it, so you can use Arri pistol grips). Pretty cool. He said he would post a picture when he gets back from a shoot.

[Larry McKee]

I started a thread some weeks ago that describes a DIY fix for the Red dovetail. I'm on my phone right now and will look up the link later.

Michael


This is it: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=13138

RED replaced the original clear silicone spacer with a harder black rubber one like Michael suggests in his post. If you have the clear one, you might get RED to send you the replacement.

[Esteban Sosnitsky]

Arrinick re-machined the Red shoulder-mount dove-tail to match the ET Arri bridge plate, (which also has an Arri rosette on it, so you can use Arri pistol grips). Pretty cool. He said he would post a picture when he gets back from a shoot.

Curious, I was going to do that next week as we have an arri bridge plate that we have and want to use on the red. The thing with the arri is that it is off axis, so I am really interested in seeing how Arrinick re-machined the mount to match the RED. Still I dont know why would you need to remachine the ET bridge plate if it comes centered. Looking forward to your post. The cheeseplate from red I didnt like. I didnt quite understand it, you have to remove the bottom plate in order to put it? or it goes in the middle of the bottom plate, if so how do you tighten it there?
I think it could have been much easier if the had just done it universally, so that ET or ARRI components could fit hassle free.

[Damien Molineaux]

Curious, I was going to do that next week as we have an arri bridge plate that we have and want to use on the red. The thing with the arri is that it is off axis, so I am really interested in seeing how Arrinick re-machined the mount to match the RED.
I'm guessing he's got an Arri 19mm which is not off axis. But isn't the part you slide the dovetail in on axis with the camera on a 15mm also ?


Still I dont know why would you need to remachine the ET bridge plate if it comes centered. Looking forward to your post.
It's not the Arri Base Plate which was remachined, only the Red Dovetail so it'll fit in the Arri Base Plate.


The cheeseplate from red I didnt like. I didnt quite understand it, you have to remove the bottom plate in order to put it? or it goes in the middle of the bottom plate, if so how do you tighten it there?
Agreed, the Cheese Plate is really a piece of c... Indeed you have to take off the Bottom Plate to put it on and off, and as I've tried to explain above, at least on my camera (Bottom Plate) it is not rock solid, the camera can move side to side.


I think it could have been much easier if the had just done it universally, so that ET or ARRI components could fit hassle free.
YES, I've said that many times. With all the problems people have been having with the Red Bottom Plate, Red should simply stop production on their Bottom Plate and offer the Arri Base Plate instead, and people could even choose between 15mm or 19mm. It would certainly cost a little more, but not that much I would think.

They could at least offer that as an option : a Base Production Pack with your choice of Arri Base Plate, without Red Bottom Plate and Dovetail, for maybe $1500. That would be a great alternative.

Cheers,
Damien