Red: More than a Camera

[Shawn Nelson]

You speak of Red to any culture and it brings to mind many things: passion, energy, desire…bringer of fear. It is altogether fitting that Jim chose Red as the name of his camera that would be so much more than that.

When I was at NAB this last week I realized one reason why Red causes passion, energy and desire: it is our field of dreams. To the young such as myself it is a possibility to leap to a position I feared would take long to attain. I also met older Red reserve holders to whom Red seemed to be that opportunity to go back and reclaim a lost dream in filmmaking or make up for lost time. And yet to others it brings a fear that they will no longer be the only ones with access to the artist’s treasure chest.

I also attended an HD DP panel and posed a question about how Red would impact the industry and whether it helps bring us closer to Francis Ford Coppola’s famous prediction. The panel snickered at me but then a guy in the corner of the room took the mic and defended me (it was Chris Coppola, Francis’s nephew and brother of Nicolas Cage). I talked with him afterwards and he really encouraged me, telling me that my first hour of Red could blow him away.

Red is more than just a camera. It truly is a Promethean act for many of us and for that: thank you Jim. You could have charged literally double or triple what you are and the industry would still crown you. In fact, simply tripling your price probably would have garnered you much more respect from the establishment.

Red is not the magic elixir, it won’t compose my shots or mix my coffee. But it is more than a tool: it is a gift of supreme opportunity.

[feb31films]

Red is more than just a camera. It truly is a Promethean act for many of us : it is a gift of supreme opportunity.

Very well said Shawn. For many people at various ends of the spectrum, Jim has literally given us fire! Hey, that's another thing also associated with the color red... :biggrin:

[Roberto B]

a cult.. and a family..

[Poi Boy]

you guys are scaring me.
-A

[Shawn Nelson]

I'm not writing hyperbole here, simply stating it like it is.

[JD Holloway]

Try the kool aid...

[David Mullen ASC]

I tend to be a "hope for the best / plan for the worst" sort of personality type, so I am uncomfortable with wildy optimistic predictions in general. To one person, that's being cynical or pessimistic, but to another, it's being realistic.

I would say that whether your goal is to become a cinematographer or a director, don't place too much emphasis on technology -- in the long run, it's your artistry to keeps your marketable as the technology keeps evolving.

One is tempted to (jokingly) paraphrase Darth Vader: "Don't be too proud of this technological terror you've constructed... the power to destroy even entire planets is insignificant compared to the power of the Force." Your power will derive ultimately from your artistic skills, not what camera you own. Keep things in perspective here.

[Graeme Nattress]

Cameras are just tools for creative people. The end result comes from the creativity of the user.

With RED, not only was the camera made by engineers, but also by creative people. We're striving for an aesthetic and a workflow that should enable the user's creativity to produce great images.

David, your Vader quote is a good one. We shouldn't all get drawn away from creating images by going on about specs and technical stuff. Tech is important as it allows you to get the best out of the camera, but in the end, the image wins.

Graeme

[laguun]

I would say that whether your goal is to become a cinematographer or a director, don't place too much emphasis on technology -- in the long run, it's your artistry to keeps your marketable as the technology keeps evolving.

i have to agree, its the artist, not the tool.
however, until red many projects & people simply couldn´t use good photography due to budget reasons, and so where second-class by design.



Your power will derive ultimately from your artistic skills, not what camera you own. Keep things in perspective here.

i agree, however i always suffer when i see well-lit, good acted, fine narrative, nicely shot scenes on.... HDV and less.

even bigger budgets are immune to this: the BBCs blue planet, which i like quite a bit, which was also partially shot on 720 - stunning images, but i and other employees of laguun really were sad seeing the fantastic motives projected on 4k, scaled up from 960x720 dvcpro hd.

i used to rent out or angenieux zooms, sony hdcam and/or arri 35IIB to indies way below price if they didn´t have enough money but talent & story looked promising.

ok, many of those films weren´t cool after all, but we´ve got -some- which really where excellent and everybody was like "thank god we didin´t have to do that on 16 or dv".

also - i often forget that many low-budgets don´t have enough light, so a camera with a better dynamic range is helpful. when we add adobe cs3 / premiere pro or apple fcs, which both offer solid colorcorrection & grading possibilities now - then there is no more excuse for -bad- photography due to technological costs anymore, which is really new, and a good thing IMHO.

ps. nothing against dv and 16mm, for many film these formats are ideal.

[Steve Gibby]

Four essential elements to top-level professional cinematography, videography, and photography: Talent, Training (experience), Tenacity, and Tools – the Four T’s.

Talent you're born with, training you pay time and dues to acquire, tenacity you’re either born with or learn, and tools you must acquire. If you have all four T’s, you'll have a decent chance of doing exceptional work. If Talent is missing, you should definitely think about choosing a different profession. If Training is the only thing missing, pay your dues and you may get to your goals. If Tenacity is missing, concentrate on learning to persevere. If Tools are the only things missing, find ways to get your hands on good tools and you may get to your goals. Talent is the one critical element that you must have or you're chasing an elusive butterfly that will undoubtedly elude you...

All these said, let’s analyze what RED can and can’t do for you.

RED can’t increase your Talent. You’re either born with that, or you’re not born with that.

RED can help increase your Training and experience level, simply by the fact that previously unaffordable technology and resolutions will now be available and accessible for you to use, thus increasing your production knowledge base. If you haven’t been able to buy or rent top-level digital cinema cameras because of affordability, you now may be able to afford to use top-level digital cinema equipment – thus increasing your Training level.

RED can’t teach you Tenacity. If you don’t have Tenacity, only you can choose to learn it. An inanimate object won’t help you in the process.

RED can represent a significant change in your Tools. If you analyze the range of lens formats and image formats, and RED succeeds in producing the features and capabilities that they have proposed, RED could be another valuable Tool in your tool chest - for multiple cine-style and EFP style productions.

Bottom line: Because someone buys a pen, does that automatically make them Shakespeare? Obviously not. Because someone buys a paintbrush, does that instantly transform them into Picasso? Obviously not. Talent and Tenacity must combine with Training and Tools for someone to even have a chance to realize their maximum potential in any creative pursuit.

I’ve ordered two RED cameras for my business. I’m a longtime veteran director, cinematographer, videographer, and photographer. I was born with Talent, paid extensive dues in Training, and have a lot of Tenacity. It’s the final “T” that is my motivating factor in acquiring the REDs – Tools. If RED delivers what they’ve proposed I see it as a valuable and capable new Tool for my business. I own and/or use Tools from about every other manufacturer. I’ll still use them when it makes the best sense – and I’ll use my REDs when that makes the best sense.

[Jannard]

Red is not the magic elixir....

That is correct. The magic elixir is what you were kind enough to give me on Tuesday. :-)

Jim

[Alexander Black]

That is correct. The magic elixir is what you were kind enough to give me on Tuesday. :-)


Jagermeister? :biggrin:

If it of course easy to get stuck discussing latitude, resolution, workflow, etc. and forget for a moment that none of these things inspire people. The excitement comes from the horizon of possibility that this equipment will reveal to its users, not from the actual equipment itself.

[Justin O'Neill]

Very well put Gibby.

[Gavin Greenwalt]

This tools don't make the man talk is true to some extent. Eventually you have to bite the bullet and start to use professional tools.

I used to edit on 3 VHS Decks with dub tapes and all manner of pain and stupidity. And let me tell you. When I got my first NLE the creative freedom and 'talent' that came from a new technology was enormous!

The converse being true often in the CG industry. There are people who are using terribly outdated tools. Tools that limit them from ever achieving their dreams, but they aren't willing to lay out a few thousand dollars for the top quality equipment which would give them the freedom to achieve anything. You cannot achieve anything with DV. It is limiting. It's limiting in dynamic range and recording medium quality. The HVX was a huge improvement and if it hadn't come along this move to RED would have been mind blowing. But the HVX still isn't 4:4:4 for green screen and it still doesn't allow a person to use quality cinelenses.

If you want to become proficient with professional tools you're going to need to use them. Not just read about them. If you want ot learn about pulling focus you're not going to learn with a 1/3" chip.

I think the RED is going to inspire people to work harder for their dreams than they ever have before. Why? Because if they don't they're out $30,000! That's almost like putting a gun to their head. Financial ruin is perhaps the best motivation a person can have.

I think the RED is going to enable more failure than any camera that's come along in a long time. Financial, creative and ambitious. But that failure is going to come at the expense of inexperience.

With RED the stakes have been raised. You can't blaim that bad green screen footage on the compression, you need to get good compositors and vfx DPs. You can't say it's because you don't have DOF. You can't say it's because of the resolution. Perhaps the RED isn't so much about "No compromises" as "No excuses". You either have talent or you don't, you've gotten your chance.

What isn't important is whether or not any of this is true. What's important is people believe it's true. And that belief is going drive them to succeed where they might have lauligagged about doing nothing previously. And that's when people are motivated act and that's when you see better shooting.

[Scott M]

... it is more than a tool: it is a gift of supreme opportunity.

I agree with Shawn wholeheartedly, here is my take. I've been reading some of the back and forth over RED on this and other forums. What I believe I've found can be a great "missing of the point". What everyone seems to agree on, but not realize fully is that RED is "just a tool" and then the discussion usually shifts to pricing, comparisons etc.

Exactly.

Red is a tool that is going to break down the wall between creativity and the realization of that creativity in our field, further than ever before.

"Why get so excited over a camera" "It's just a tool".

"What you really need is a good script"

Bingo. There is the gap in understanding. What some fail to realize is that there are scripts a plenty, there are ideas galore, there are moments in life that deserve as much as anything to be captured as beautifully as possible. How many DP's are writing the scripts these days in feature films? So you can see the difficulty for some to relate to what's happening here. The convergence and synergy of creativity into a smaller number of required personnel to realize a a visual dream. Just because no one is paying you to imagine, or to help achieve someone else's imagination, doesn't stop you from doing so on your own time.

While there will be a revolution in quality of images no doubt, there will more importantly be a revolution in ability to produce them. I will use my own experience as an example.

In 1999 I was filming with friends on a Hi8. Over the course of a YEAR we put together a 15minute video mixing our own 3D graphics and live action on a PII 400mhz computer. It was cheesy as hell, but it wasn't bad for the BEGINNING and working with what we had while learning. A year later I was lucky enough to acquire a Canon XL1 for under $1000 through a friend that owned a pawn shop. We now had access to an awesome TOOL, we studied it, and played with it to learn as much as we could about DV filming, going so far as producing a couple wedding, and corporate videos. Simultaneously, while in school I joined the National Guard right before 9-11. I ended up deployed to Afghanistan with a helicopter aviation unit a year after we invaded and I took that XL1. I now had the highest quality camera around Afghanistan for the time. I made little videos for the families back at home, and put them on the unit website, I was given a copy of Final Cut Pro in Afghanistan and learned how to use it from scratch, by knowing what I wanted to see, and figuring out how to achieve it. Those videos made their way to the top of the National Guard in D.C. simply BECAUSE I took a cinematic approach to reality. Long story short, my buddy and I are now contracted to film and edit for National Guard recruiting videos, our first purchase were two HVX200's, which lead us to DVXUSER and the first of their "HVX Bootcamps" in LA, we were trained by Panavision to use their Panavised Sony CineAlta's for the latest movie theater campaign, and just recently our story was part of the cover story in the latest Government Video magazine. And that same buddy, who made those 3d graphics years ago while playing around with his software, submitted the idea that won the #97 reservation for RED ONE. If we find that as a fledgling company we can afford that insanely low price for the RED flat out as a company, we will begin to produce archival capable footage of our service members at a quality that will lend itself to history much the way film used to do for the military. This didn't happen because someone paid us to start the process, nor did we pay to be taught. We have made it as far as we have based on our ability to acquire the tools for the job, learn how to use them to achieve what we envision, while having access to said tools when those magic moments appear.

The moral is, what if instead of the XL1, I would've OWNED a RED when I deployed? Imagine the intrinsic quality and historical versatility of the footage I brought home because I had access to and studied my OWN TOOL of that caliber. Now, the next time I deploy, it can be a reality. That, and the fact that most in or breaking into the field can actually afford the RED when it comes down to it, we could charge it, and pay it off over time. Or, if we wanted to shift focus from contract work to the multiple scripts we've written that spawned our film making in the first place, and purchase it for that alone, we could. Those with a dream of putting life or imagination on the most beautiful format available will now be able to do so with a % of the financial risk involved before, knowing that in the long run, their work can ultimately be effectively shown on "the big screen". While in the meantime, we and those who invest in one, will be able to have the tool in their constant possession to study, learn, and master the art we all love so dear, on our own time, while being ready and capable for any whimsical idea or once in a lifetime opportunity that comes our way. There may still be delusions of grandeur involved, but now, thanks to RED, a large degree of potential as well.

If it came down to driving the beat-up car and financing the RED, basically financing dreams instead of depreciation. It'd be that glorious of a decision. It's nothing to fear, it's something to admire. This isn't "fanboy" talk, this is personal awe at what's been accomplished by others with dreams of their own. This is respect to all those that see this potential and haven't slammed or put down the excited and now, empowered. This is a thank you from someone who will undoubtedly benefit from the forthcoming tool.

It's my motto that Life X Art = Glory. The way I see it, RED is simply going to be an amazing and now more affordable than ever tool to help in that equation.

[Ace]

Mr.Glory, Bravo and beautifully said.

[David Mullen ASC]

I don't know, "Mr. Glory" almost proves the opposite, that the truly determined don't wait for technology to be invented, they always find a way to get the job done -- only now they can do it with better-looking pictures, that's all.

[Shawn Nelson]

That is correct. The magic elixir is what you were kind enough to give me on Tuesday. :-)

Jim

My pleasure Jim! I'd get you a new one any time.

[Billy Summers]

I don't know, "Mr. Glory" almost proves the opposite, that the truly determined don't wait for technology to be invented, they always find a way to get the job done -- only now they can do it with better-looking pictures, that's all.

exactly!

[Shawn Nelson]

I don't know, "Mr. Glory" almost proves the opposite, that the truly determined don't wait for technology to be invented, they always find a way to get the job done -- only now they can do it with better-looking pictures, that's all.

I concure sir, but neither him nor I have been "waiting around" for Red. I shot a lot with my XL1s back in the day, and now I feel ready for Red. My point was not at all that Red was the magic slippers that were going to fly me, only that Red will be a supreme opportunity for those that can wield it.

I've been shooting on MiniDV cameras for 4 years now, SVHS before that and Hi8 before that. I have not been waiting for tech, I've worked with what I have. But I am not a child of priviledge, I work a job as a software engineer to afford even the basic tools to work with and I can just now afford a Red. I strongly believe Red will be the tool that I can use my talent with to show people what I have learned and can hopefully leave engineering for good. I am under no delusions about Red doing my work for me, I am simply excited about being given a staggering opportunity.

[Sean Michael Johnston]

Wow.
This thread should be published and required reading for all aspiring film makers. I'm amazed at the diverse levels of experience represented here on this forum. All thanks to the release of a new tool.

[Jay A. Kelley]

It's an honor to be around you guys. David, I am thrilled you visit here sometimes. I love reading your stuff on c.com but things tend to get a little hot over there.. That's ok, but I always feel cheated when I good discussion gets going and then it's thrown off the rails. (This is only with the RED forum, usually).

Jay

As for opinions on the subject at hand... People make the difference, but RED will give more power to more people.

"With great power comes great responsibility"

[Sean Michael Johnston]

This same discussion happened 20 years ago when desktop publishing was putting pro tools into everyone's hands.

[David Mullen ASC]

And it was anarchy at first -- I was caught in the middle of it, sort of.

After I graduated from college in 1984 with a degree in English Lit, though I wanted to be a filmmaker, I got my first job working for Transamerica Insurance Company. They wanted someone with graphic skills (I can draw) and writing skills (I had a BA in English Lit) to design insurance forms, folders, brochures, letterheads, etc. and be trained as a back-up typesetter. So I learned to typeset the old-fashioned way (x-acto knife, wax, etc.) and also by using a new computer called a Compugraphics that required I write in computer code just to see the drawn form.

The company also had a typing pool, about ten women in one area.

Then Apple came out with the first business computer, the Apple Lisa, which was a flop. Our company bought some then dropped them for some new IBM PC's the next year. Then they decided to fire the entire typing pool and let the insurance folks type their own paperwork on their new PC's. Then they decided to try designing their own forms on their PC's and skip the forms designers like me for the basic stuff (policy update notifications, changes in coverage notifications, etc.)

It was a disaster -- basically because just because someone knows insurance law, doesn't mean they can type or spell, nor does it mean they have the graphics skill to do the layout for a form. (And as an English Lit major, I was appalled at the writing style of insurance policies with sentences like "We no longer provide Bodily Injury." Nobody else thought that was funny.)

I left at the height of this mess to go the graduate film school and never looked back, and I suppose eventually it occurred to them that layout people were still needed to design professional-looking forms that were consistent with corporate design policy.

So while the desktop publishing revolution was good for a lot of people, it also proved that some people had no talent at doing their own publishing.

[Blair S. Paulsen]

My desktop publishing experience in the early 90's is right in line with much of this thread. The tools to do professional work were affordable. I created some truly putrid crap at first but I had the tenacity to keep trying. I owned the tools so I could stay up half the night trying every filter in Photoshop until I learned what the tools could do.

Eventually I became an Art Director for a national magazine and my enhanced eye for composition serves me well to this day. I also learned about print densities, adjustment curves in CMYK, layer composites and more that serve me well in FCP and other motion apps.

The key to all this is that by actually owning a tool you get to do a lot of testing and experimentation which leverages your application of whatever talent you have. Gibby's 4 Ts are not discrete elements but interdependent ones. Viva the Rebellion.

[Shawn Nelson]

The key to all this is that by actually owning a tool you get to do a lot of testing and experimentation which leverages your application of whatever talent you have..

Exactly!! Take a pro who's been shooting with the F900 since it came out doing several features a year continuously. How many hours has he/she actually spent with the camera? I could match that in my first year with Red. Like Rodriguez said "You wanna be a guitar player? You know the drill, play till your fingers bleed".

You wanna be a cinematographer? Shoot till your eyes bleed :-)

[Joel Kaye]

You wanna be a cinematographer? Shoot till your eyes bleed :-)

Shoot, evaluate and improve.

Sadly I do know people that go out time after time and don't get any better. I think that's ultimately the difference between talent and no talent. There's a pretty good chance many RED owners won't be very talented. There's also a pretty good chance many RED owners will be more talented than their entrenched film counterparts.

I think there's a pretty good chance the next great moviemaker will be a Grandma from Wisconsin who'd rather get a RED than retire.

[Craig Bowman]

If pencils cost $200K and up, how many would actually have access and of those that have access, how many would become great artists. Red is simply a democratization, through the drastic reduction in costs to an extremely high quality medium. More people will have access, and so if the same percentage of art comes through, the actual numbers of great work will increase.

[Storyline]

For me, there has always been a sacrifice of image quality and lustre when shooting video, which I have done out of budget necessity all these years. Granted, most people in theaters and certainly those watching on tv aren't looking first at this tradeoff - so many times I've been asked by audiences when a documentary we've shot on video (SD) and screened on 35mm will be available on DVD. But even if the effect is secondary for a theatrical documentary audience, there will be a world of difference to me as an independent filmmaker to no longer have to settle for a lesser image due financial constraints. Red closed that gap. Bravo!

[Illya Friedman]

Bottom line: Because someone buys a pen, does that automatically make them Shakespeare? Obviously not. Because someone buys a paintbrush, does that instantly transform them into Picasso? Obviously not. Talent and Tenacity must combine with Training and Tools for someone to even have a chance to realize their maximum potential in any creative pursuit.


Great post! And it deserves to be echoed over and over. Unfortunately, not enough people starting out realize this.

At NAB, I ran into a client who just had a gig salvaging, actually a complete re-do of a $75K commercial shoot. He got the work because (by some miracle) a DV-shooter "team" landed a professional job. I'll just say that the shooters thought that they knew how to properly set TC, backfocus and audio levels. Getting fired is now the least of their career worries.

I don't know what it is about this business that makes people want to misrepresent their experience. I've met far too many people who say they are "professional" producers, cinematographers, editors, actors, directors..etc when it's just not the case.

If your skill set is of a student/indie and think that printing a business card, setting up a webpage, and purchasing a product somehow turns you into a professional; I'm sorry to report you're setting yourself up for a very unpleasant reality check.

Illya Friedman
Dalsa

[dalemccready]

I spent the weekend driving up to the very tip of the North Island of New Zealand for a running race, and after I tiki-toured around a bit with my Canon DSLR.

So many times I saw unique scenery and people and constantly thought..."Next time I can bring my Red One".

For me as a DP The real trick of the Red camera may be to inspire me to go out and shoot things that I hadn't thought about shooting previously. I work in drama and commercials mostly, and often feel a bit jaded to embark on personal documentary projects. Mostly I think "why point a camera at that when it won't look as good as it does right now to my eye?".

But now I think if I go for a drive with the Red One for a week and interview people somewhere as beautiful and interesting as the Far North of NZ, then the footage I bring back will be far more likely to capture the essence of the place and personalities.

Not being a doco maker, this weekend opened my eyes to the possibilty of using this camera to capture the real world in glorious detail, finally matching the way that I feel a 35mm stills camera works for me. Capturing moments in fine detail and colour.

[Gavin Greenwalt]

I think what a number of Reduser members are expressing is a frustration with the lack of options previously.

There were good low end options like the DVX. There were pretty good new low end options like the HVX. But the next step up in price just didn't really seem to warrant the expense. The difference in quality between an HDX and XDCAM just didn't seem to warrant the investment. There was no really amazing incentive anymore to pay $30,000 for another HD camera, especially when you had the HVX. The F900 was a good option but it was far out of reach financially. Film is great but paying $1000 a day plus processing doesn't necessarily fit outside of special and or well funded endeavours.

It's sort of like learning to ski on the bunny slope and then learning the next most difficult run is a double black diamond chute picking it's way down in between avalanche zones. Financially the RED is like a blue square. It's got some danger to it, but you probably won't die and there is reason enough to give it a try. You can expect to fall down a few times but you'll be learning new skills and abilities. Now my analogy falls apart left and right and those of you who have never skied before are left scratching your head at my little metaphysical colored shapes but my point is it's finally a good "middle" option financially.

A new ski lift to largely untracked powder has been opened.

If there is one thing I've learned over the years it's: never underestimate a muddler. Given enough muddling you can learn just about anything. The great thing about film making is unlike some of the sporting activities I've tried to muddle through in the past, it probably won't almost kill you.

[Shawn Nelson]

Good post Gavin. I'm next to Mt Hood, so I get your slopes analogy :-). Put another way: many of us have been climbing the steps of tools as our skills improved then hit this cliff where to really get that much better than an HVX (F900, et all) was an ENORMOUSLY out of reach next step. We could do what everyone else does: strap on the belay gear and start mountain climbing...but out comes along Red and it looks much more like a nice stair step...maybe even an escalator :-)

[Milan Nikolic]

Gibby, you are vise man of camera:

"Four essential elements to top-level professional cinematography, videography, and photography: Talent, Training (experience), Tenacity, and Tools – the Four T’s."

Thanks for your contributions!

[Peter McCully]

I know that feeling. After NAB I drove up to the Grand Canyon with the family and looking at the desert landscape with the magnificent scale and rich colours I wished I could have run some 4k on the compositions I discovered there.