DSLR-killer...

[Jannard]

We believe, and are developing for late 2009, a replacement for DSLRs. Currently, we call it a DSMC (Digital Still & Motion Camera).

While (insert code name) is not a replacement for Epic or Scarlet, it is strategically targeted at the DSLR space. As Nikon and Canon release their 720P and 1080P, respectively, DSLRs with video capture... RED has a more advanced view of the future. We look forward to rapidly pushing the "big guys" along in feature sets and capabilities.

RED firmly believes in higher resolution, higher S/N, higher DNR, higher frame rates, smaller bodies, more system flexibility, and many more options as we move forward in camera development.

The strength of RED is in our sensor development program, REDCODE, and having no legacy platforms to deal with. That left us free to explore, develop and prepare to deliver a new platform. DSMC.

We think all our customers already know what the future will bring. They are just afraid to wish for it for fear of disappointment. Fear not. Sleep tight. RED is awake.

Jim

[Peter Majtan]

Can't wait... :)

Will it have interchangeable lens mount, or can You address more Your lens strategy? DSLR after all is mostly about the lenses... :)
If You want to wow DSLR owners (such as me) You need to provide path to reuse our existing glass... Nikon and Canon mounts are a must...

[Chris Armstrong]

Can't wait to see what RED brings to the table. I know it will be industry changing.

[Jannard]

Can't wait... :)

Will it have interchangeable lens mount, or can You address more Your lens strategy? DSLR after all is mostly about the lenses... :)
If You want to wow DSLR owners (such as me) You need to provide path to reuse our existing glass... Nikon and Canon mounts are a must...

I won't comment on any specifics until the 1st of the year. But "revolution" applies more to this than the RED ONE did to cinema.

Jim

[Blair S. Paulsen]

You're like the Willy Wonka of cameras.

[Larry McKee]

So, when are we gonna be able to buy stock? :shiftyph34r:

[Don Woods]

Oh man another camera that I will by. The wife is going to shoot me...

[Steve Gibby]

Kickin' ass and takin' names!

Bring it on. If you build it they will come..

[Peter Majtan]

Quick search through registered trade mark reveals two possibilities:

REDCORE (http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4jqlmt.9.13)

or

RED QUICK (http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=4jqlmt.9.37)

Hmmm....
I like REDCORE! :)

[Don Woods]

So, when are we gonna be able to buy stock? :shiftyph34r:

As much as I would like to I hope never. I wouldn't want anyone having any say either then Jim in what to design and build. Do you think that if there was a real IPO with a board of directors we would be getting the one on one treatment and the products we see coming out of RED? I say nay nay

[Frank Weeks]

So, when are we gonna be able to buy stock? :shiftyph34r:

and Jim , don't forget the stock options for early adopters.

[Justin Kirchhoff]

RED poops out more cameras than I do actual poop. I have yet to figure out which is better.

[Nils J. Nesse]

I was still excited about the Olympus MicroFourThirds (http://www.four-thirds.org/en/microft/) announcement. (System cameras without mirror)

Jim, is this better than Olympus?

[killfilm]

Jim, never ceases to amaze and revolutionize but may i remind you:


sleep


sleep [ sleep ]


noun
Definition:

1. state of not being awake: a state of partial or full unconsciousness in people and animals, during which voluntary functions are suspended and the body rests and restores itself, or a period spent in this state

[Rob Martin]

It's been said many times that RED represents the beginning of the end, as we know it of a sports shooter. If you can do 100fps and get a 24MP still image of some quality, then why would you need a Nikon or Canon?

Nikon and Canon coming up with HD recordigns on DSLR's is quaint, but not a selling point for me. I am into the quality of the image. Video, to date, and it's still images have never blown me away until I started seeing the RED footage. It's still not there (IMHO) but it's closer than ever.

RED needs to get the scarlet out in commercial volumes as a testeer to its ability to produce something that will have real demand. This is a truly interesting device and more than a few of my colleagues are gagging at the bit until it's introduced.

Stock options? No way, I agree. Jim and Co need to be free to develop and innovate. If it's $$ they need, make sure it's only 48% they hand over to investors, and even this would change the way they operate.

Bring it on..... You have my vote and $$.

Rob

[Shawn Nelson]

Whoa! So, does this mean a line of serious glass? I've "heard" that the real money isn't in camera bodies, but in glass.

Either way, wow!

Didn't someone ever tell you to pick on someone your own size? :-D

[Tom Lowe]

Many of us have been waiting for the merger of DSLRs and HD video cameras.

BTW, I have some ideas about adding some advanced timelapse and exposure options to this sucker. Can I send them along to a certain red team member? Who is heading this project up?

[Jeff Coatney]

As much as I would like to I hope never. I wouldn't want anyone having any say either then Jim in what to design and build. Do you think that if there was a real IPO with a board of directors we would be getting the one on one treatment and the products we see coming out of RED? I say nay nay

Amen, Brother! Jim, please stay private! If you decide to retire, I think you could find a suitable replacement that could take on your day to day role by searching any one of a number of institutes for the criminally insane or we could just clone a Bond villain ;)!

You are breaking all the rules, making new ones and breaking them all over again. This is a fantastic new direction in development. After using your products for over four months now, I have every confidence in your instincts, your assessment of the market, your resources, and the talent and skill of you and your team to deliver whatever you say you'll deliver. You fly in rarefied air, and it is thrilling to watch the history of this industry unfold.

[Jarred Land]

Who is heading this project up?

Jim.. of course... just like everything else :)

[C.H.Haskell]

I leave town for a few weeks and RED is turning the DSLR world upside down.
Cheers Jim and team...keep up the good work!

[Jeff Coatney]

Whoa! So, does this mean a line of serious glass? I've "heard" that the real money isn't in camera bodies, but in glass.


I have a feeling we're all going to be redefining what our notion of serious glass is before Jim's done. In a good way.

[Alexander Nikishin]

Ah awesome, sounds like another revolutionary piece of equipment.

[Jarred Land]

can you guys put your wish list posts in the new section:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=47

[Brandon Ruiz]

Did I miss the announcement? Which Canon DSLR does 1080p?



Seems Jim knows something about canon's latest... Not suprising.

I'm guessing the long awaited 5d replacement?

It's going to be an interesting couple of weeks in the DSLR world.

[Jeff Coatney]

As long as it's not "Gomer Pyle, DSMC", I'm happy with whatever they name it.

[Jannard]

This stuff is pretty simple.

1. Have the best sensor program.
2. Have the decision-maker be a shooter.
3. Don't have a legacy program to deal with.
4. Love this industry. Stay up 18 hours a day working on it. Have great people around you as passionate as you are.

The rest is a piece of cake.

Jim

[Lappe767]

I've waited a very long time for this announcement, thank you Jim!

More sleepless nights ahead for me!

[Jannard]

As far as glass is concerned... glass is easier than sensors. Just takes longer...

Jim

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Oh man another camera that I will by. The wife is going to shoot me...

I'm in the same situation here... But I think it will be worth it. :biggrin:

[Rob Martin]

As far as glass is concerned... glass is easier than sensors. Just takes longer...

Jim

And there is more of it....

I go from 14/2.8 to 800/5.6 and everything in between.

But if the sensor is not pushing 5++ fps, has noiseless viewing from 50 to 12800 ISO++, then it's going to find life tough.....

The aspect ratio interests me as well.

Full Frame? Cropped Frame? If you're building it from the ground up, no legacy, the world is your oyster . . .

Rob

[Peter Majtan]

Jim, I really mean it when I say this - I would seriously consider to hang my own business on the nail if I could join Your team. I know I have no right to compare myself to You, but I think we are very much a like (except the bank accounts and few years then and there...). If there are any serious post openings for the RED RANCH that would take advantage of my skills, talent and experience, I would happily forward my resume & references for Your kind consideration...

You & Your team makes me for the first time ever seriously consider to work and live in the USA (Apple was trying to for few years now without much success... :) )...

I would have sent this as PM if there was a way...

I apologize for being so bold and open...

In any case I wish You the very best with all Your endeavors and I sincerely mean it... In the meantime I will continue to develop several key accessories for Your babies... :)

Cheers to You & Your team!!!

Peter

[Manfred Lopez]

This stuff is pretty simple.

1. Have the best sensor program.
2. Have the decision-maker be a shooter.
3. Don't have a legacy program to deal with.
4. Love this industry. Stay up 18 hours a day working on it. Have great people around you as passionate as you are.

The rest is a piece of cake.

Jim

This announcement is --without a doubt-- tremendously exciting! But before I let myself become too excited, Could I ask whatever happened to the announcement that Red would be producing 4K displays? Was this abandoned or is this still coming at some point in the future?

[Jannard]

If people are not stunned by the specs and design, I will retire... truly.

Jim

[Peter Majtan]

If they are not stunned by what You've just said - I will retire myself... :)

[Darren Orange]

4. Love this industry. Stay up 18 hours a day working on it. Have great people around you as passionate as you are.
Jim


I like this one, Go Jim and Team!

Its true, it does help, It's all about the people and the time!

[Shawn Nelson]

If people are not stunned by the specs and design, I will retire... truly.

Jim

It's a trick statement! In Jannard'esque, 'retire' is defined as 'Will switch industries to do even bigger things'.

[Manfred Lopez]

If people are not stunned by the specs and design, I will retire... truly.

Jim

Quote of the year? :blink:

[Rob Martin]

If people are not stunned by the specs and design, I will retire... truly.

Jim

It'll be interesting to see how it stuns Nikon, Canon and Sony-olta!

Rob

[Mike McCombs]

Jim,

I'll state it again, I WANT IN!!!! I want to help in anyway possible.

Mike McCombs

mmccombs@samys.com
mikemccombs@mac.com

[Tom Lowe]

can you guys put your wish list posts in the new section:

http://www.reduser.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=47

Excellent!

[Jarred Land]

again... please post any "wish lists" in the new section... thx.

[Jason Wingrove]

Thanks again for all of this Jim & Jarred,
Changing the world of imaging.. one tease at a time

jas

_

[Jarred Land]

one tease at a time

_

I prefer " Tantalize " :)

heh heh heh.

[Jannard]

Once we have the RED ONE, Epic, Scarlet and our DSMC released, all you will need to do is pick one (or more) and UPGRADE!

Jim

[Rob Martin]

Once we have the RED ONE, Epic, Scarlet and our DSMC released, all you will need to do is pick one (or more) and UPGRADE!

Jim


This is the key for me... upgradeability.

I've been spending mega bucks every two years to maintain a set of DSLR's for the Mrs and I.

A Scarlet and a "Blood Red" DSMC (2 each) would rock our worlds.

Rob

[Jared Caldwell]

Once we have the RED ONE, Epic, Scarlet and our DSMC released, all you will need to do is pick one (or more) and UPGRADE!

Jim

Does this mean that Scarlet will be upgradable after all? (Hopefully the sensor as well!) :D

[Jannard]

Jarred, Matt, Deanan, Jon and I all think this is the coolest thing in the pipeline...

Jim

[Peter Majtan]

Not long ago You thought exactly the same about Scarlet, no offense... :)

[Jon Sagud]

Not just the coolest thing in the pipeline..... the coolest thing ever :)

[Deanan]

Not just the coolest thing in the pipeline..... the coolest thing ever :)

Coolest...? It's f**king perfect.
I've run out of things to dream of in a camera.
(for now :)

[Jared Caldwell]

What is DSMC aiming towards? Scarlet has been toted by Big Jon to be the "everyday" camera, offering high quality professional cinema footage, as well as high quality still images, that is small enough to take with you everywhere. The RED ONE seems to be aimed towards the professional filmmaker that wants the resolution and interchangable lenses of 35mm film. Epic seems to be aimed towards those that need to have it all.

Where does DSMC fit into my life as a filmmaker? (Hopefully, in my pocket, or at least in a small case! :D)

When I think "DSLR", there are certain things that come to mind when dealing with the technology curve (better sensors, more resolution, wash-rinse-repeat, etc...). I have a sneaking suspension that this new camera will outperform those in the market, but also do things that are completely new and different in the DSLR world...

Exciting! :D

[Jannard]

Interestingly enough, DSMC does not compete with, or interfere with, Scarlet or Epic. It just makes DSLRs look like the past.

Jim

[Zakaree Sandberg]

I notice alot of reference to just epic or scarlet..when comparing new products..
is the red one the middle child that no one likes anymore?

[Tom Lowe]

The way you are talking about this makes me think that any of my mental guesses about it are going to be way off!

Is it going to use any existing glass (Canon EF, medium format, etc)?

Will it record 2K 24p or higher specs?

[Jannard]

I notice alot of reference to just epic or scarlet..when comparing new products..
is the red one the middle child that no one likes anymore?

The RED ONE is the 1st child. It is the one that changed an industry. It will never be forgotten and never abandoned. It is upgradeable. It just got left off the last post because it is not a new model. RED ONE forever...

Jim

[Jannard]

The way you are talking about this makes me think that any of my mental guesses about it are going to be way off!

Is it going to use any existing glass (Canon EF, medium format, etc)?

Will it record 2K 24p or higher specs?

If we answer one question... we'll need to answer more. We believe it marks the end of DSLRs. That's all we can say right now.

Jim

[Pierce Cook]

RED ONE forever

As I'm looking to hopefully put my reservation in within a week or two, this is refreshing! Excellent!



4. Love this industry. Stay up 18 hours a day working on it. Have great people around you as passionate as you are.


Exactly my sentiments!

Thanks again for all you guys are doing. Let us know if we can help! :)

[Jared Caldwell]

If we answer one question... we'll need to answer more. We believe it marks the end of DSLRs. That's all we can say right now.

Jim

Not asking about the actual specs of the camera, but I am curious as to how far along you are already on it.

Do you already have a prototype? Do you already have a lot of work done on it, or are you still very much in the design stage of the camera?

[Mark Thorpe]

Ahh so I still have time to upgrade my 400D, hone skills some more and then explode with "RAGE"

[Casey Green]

This is extremely exciting news. As always, you are raising the bar.

My only concern is that RED keeps attention focused on perfecting the RED ONE and Workflow as soon as possible.

Rock on.

[Jannard]

Let us know if we can help! :)

Here is what you can do to help...

1. Buy a RED ONE... with accessories.
2. Shoot great footage you are proud of and post.
3. Upgrade to Epic. Shoot great footage you are proud of and post.
4. Buy a Scarlet. Use everyday. Shoot great footage and post.
5. Buy our (insert name here) DSMC. Shoot great footage and post.

Be happy. If you are... we are.

Jim

[anonymuse]

If you build it they will come..

I'm coming right now.

[Jannard]

This is extremely exciting news. As always, you are raising the bar.

My only concern is that RED keeps attention focused on perfecting the RED ONE and Workflow as soon as possible.

Rock on.

We agree with you about staying focused on perfecting the RED ONE and workflow. Everything we learn gets translated to the future...

Jim

[Shane Smith Productions]

Hey Jim, any chance of some custom Oakley shades, clothes, and watches to complement our cameras?

[Jannard]

Hey Jim, any chance of some custom Oakley shades, clothes, and watches to complement our cameras?

How about some custom RED stuff? We are working on a lot of accessories for RED.

Jim

[Casey Green]

We agree with you about staying focused on perfecting the RED ONE and workflow. Everything we learn gets translated to the future...

Jim

Just what I was hoping to hear. Looking forward to IBC! :-)

[Jason Wingrove]

How about some custom RED stuff? We are working on a lot of accessories for RED.

Jim


even just a cap would be great

J

_

[kunal2]

what about we able to install a small program on our pda's to remote the DSMC through WI-FI:w00t: ..am getting excited about the possiblities

[Jannard]

even just a cap would be great

J

_

Coming soon... complete with CF card holder.

Jim

[brett jordan]

I know this is a long-shot, but I believe there would be a niche market for a compact-size camera with a decent zoom range with a large sensor... I use DSLR cameras for professional shoots, but carry a Lumix DMC-TZ3 around with me for all my 'casual' photography.

The Lumix's lens isn't bad, but the sensor is poor, producing noisy/grainy images which require a lot of post-processing to make acceptable. However, it does mean I get plenty of pictures in situations where carrying around a DSLR would be impractical... especially in social situations, with friends/kidz, etc.

It would be wonderful to have a properly portable camera with a 24-200mm lens and a decent sensor, and would be willing to pay a premium price for it. I've made a long spec-list for this perfect compact if anyone shows any interest in the concept.

Of course, the real dream would be for this to be bolted on to an iPhone, allowing me to carry around just about everything I need in one device... but I realise this is some way down the line!

[michael zaletel]

I am already using my RED ONE as a DSLR. I still cannot understand why anyone would rely on timing to "capture the moment" in fashion, sports, nature or most other photography when you can just shoot the entire shoot in print resolution and then forward frame-by-frame in RedCine allowing the client to pick the "shot" they like best. Export as TIFF, open in Photoshop, color correct, convert to CMYK and send it to press.

Granted, my DSLR is a bit lighter and more portable than the necessary RED setup. So the revolution (in my mind) would have to be size and weight or the RED ONE has already solved the problem. Not sure what you can do about lenses. My Cannon 70-200L is painful to carry and shoot with as well.

-shooter

[Stefan Christou]

Not been there or done that with Red yet (Scarlet here I come) but I just bought the T-shirt.

I aim to use Scarlet to shoot boxing for the web, as well as for docs.

[Jeff Coatney]

Stick a Sat Phone Modem on the back so Photojournalists can upload their images from the battlefield as they take them. My producer friends in News will love that.

[Gunleik Groven]

I sorta have to say.... WOW!!!

sorta... :)

[Rami Mustakim]

Jim,

I'm a little confused...
The more you annonce Red products, the more it makes me want them :tongue:

But seriously I can't really figure wich solution would be the best for me now.
I ordered a Red One with Nikon mount to produce music videos (that's my business). Epic specs, I think will be too big for what I need and Scarlet is (maybe) not enough.

But your DSMC (Digital Still & Motion Camera) !!! I don't know anymore...
As I said I'm confused...

But always amazed by what you guys keep on doing.

[Pierce Cook]

Here is what you can do to help...

1. Buy a RED ONE... with accessories.
2. Shoot great footage you are proud of and post.
3. Upgrade to Epic. Shoot great footage you are proud of and post.
4. Buy a Scarlet. Use everyday. Shoot great footage and post.
5. Buy our (insert name here) DSMC. Shoot great footage and post.

Be happy. If you are... we are.

Jim

Working on it!

Also, this hat you mention sounds cool. :D

[Erik Bien]

Here is what you can do to help...

1. Buy a RED ONE... with accessories.

I conned my best friend into doing exactly that. Close enough? :usd:


2. Shoot great footage you are proud of and post.


We're getting there (http://www.vimeo.com/1621258)!


3. Upgrade to Epic.

Can't imagine needing to; we already think the One is pretty epic!


4. Buy a Scarlet. Use everyday. Shoot great footage and post.

Several of our team are already saving for her. Just tell us when you want our money. :clown2:


5. Buy our (insert name here) DSMC. Shoot great footage and post.
As much as I don't personally care about the D90 or Canon's new offering, a DSLR motion-picture hybrid from YOU guys ... probably ought to play it safe and start saving for one of those, too.


Be happy. If you are... we are.


Production company. Agency. Clients. Crew. It's a regular RED love fest! :love:

[David M]

I have only two words to throw into this discussion:
Battery. Consumption.

I love my digital still cameras but I so miss the old 35mm fully automatic happy snappers that will sit on the shelf for a year or so and spring into action at a moment's notice! Where a single 123 battery lasts for years:sad:

I suspect that 24fps 4K would require pretty some serious power, but it would be fantastic if that dropped to virtually zero in between shots. That would take some serious chip design and probably a OLED viewfinder, but the design could trickle down to cheap mass-market cameras.

And that's all I have to say about that subject.

[David M]

And that's all I have to say about that subject.

Oh. Except lightweight personal 3-D viewing goggles, that aren't a joke and don't give you a sore nose after a while.

[Mark Toia]

If people are not stunned by the specs and design, I will retire... truly.

Jim


WHOA WHOA just settle down mate, take a breath, there are always going to be that cynical bunch of people out there, you should know this by now.

Please retract your "retire" statement....
Pleeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaasssseeeeee.......:sad:

[Mark K.]

Well Jim if it can use the best of all types of brand's glass - I'll be there!

[Andrew Walker]

This camera is going to be amazing from the sound of it and I know that Jim doesn't know how to disapoint. This years NAB I'm sure is going to be crazy, again, at the Red booth. Red should get Sony's space because they got way cooler things going on.

[Tico Llaurador]

It's been a long time a' comin'!

[Even Solberg]

I'm officially psyched. I was going to get Scarlet (still will), but for me this is the big enchilada. I just hope it won't make my investments in L-glass obsolete. Where do I sign up for this thing? :)

[David Wesemann]

sounds awesome (as several people pointed out before me) ...

there is a kind of 'awe-inflation' with Jim's announcements, but I am really stunned, especially because you are going in a whole different direction with this one. It also looks like you've set yourself quite a challenge, because compared to the lazy, oligopolistic digital cinema market, the digital photography market seems a lot more competitive and hence driven by fast advancing technology.

(just to start of a bit of speculation, we all know what happened after the scarlet announcements) If I had to put money on anything it would be a 'non-optical-viewfinder' design. This has always struck me, because building a mirror reflex system into a camera involves a lot of precision mecanics and grows your lenses by a considerable amount (look at those beauties you fit on an M-Leica, they're as fast as a canon prime, and about half the size).

A mirror-reflex system is quite sensible when working on film, since you see your viewfinder image through the actual lens etc. But in the digital world, you could just as well see the image that your sensor picks up, which is the picture the camera actually takes. This would involve a high precision electronic viewfinder, but RED have proven they're capable of designing one with their EVF

There are already several hints for this kind of design in Jims post. First of all the device is not called an SLR anymore, instead they have chosen their own definition. There is a mention of body size, plus the (almost usual) claim to shake things up.

I'm really excited about this project, I'm happy to see you go down a whole different avenue. Good luck to the Red Team, may you never lose your childish enthusiasm, that we're all so dependent on...

[Lauri Kettunen]

Ok, highly interesting news. Let's make some wild guessing to keep up the fun.

First of all RED must have thought about a temporal wavelet compression. In Red One the wavelet compression is spatial. But temporal compression should be possible, and can't see immediately any reasons why it wasn't succesfull as well. I'll not be surprised if Red Ray and the new still-motion camear combo will have this sort of temporal compression.

Second, if this new camera making DSLRs old-fashion has a sensor with very high resolution, that will make it possible to replace long teles with cropping. Say, if you can make a 12Mpixel crop out of a larger frame, perhaps cropping is no longer a poor idea. Then, if the sensor design and cropping is combined with the nice scaling features of wavelets (one may quickly generate 1/2x, 1/4x etc images) a combination of REDCODE, the sensor program and hardware design with dedicated processors may well result in some completely new kind of concepts. Such as one camera storing X Mpixels images with the nice feature of dialing in the "lens lenght" with one and the same lens on the nose of the camera.

[JanneJansson]

Jarred, Matt, Deanan, Jon and I all think this is the coolest thing in the pipeline...

Jim

Hire me!

[Ivan G]

This sounds very exciting! I just hope energy isn't pulled away from Epic:unsure: No matter what, I support RED 100%!!!!

[pookipichu]

Jim,

I've been following your company since your very first press release and was one of those people excited by your industry changing products. I just wanted to toss out there that Full Frame means different things for different people. Let's say if Red were to put out a 41.5 x 56mm sensor... I'd be rubbing my hands in glee as several industries would become as relevant as the telegram.

[Bing Bailey]

Jim,

thats one hell of a way to amortize your sensor designs and bring the cost of great glass down. you've already got most of the nuts and bolts from working on red one. this is what happens when a company doesn't care about disrupting the market. there is enough knowledge built up now that it can be applied 7 ways to sunday.

I can't wait to see the full specs for scarlet and see how mysterium x performs and if monstro will beat film. I'm sure you wont let it out of the starting gate until it does. you must have a giant set of brass cohones.

[David Birdy]

Great stuff Jim!

Do Red One owners get 1st crack at this ..or any new product?

If so I'll take two!

Best !
Dave

[Eric Lange]

Jim thanks v. much for the post and spectral time frame.

As R&D is our core activity, we always try think ahead and pass the ball to where someone is going to be. You guys pass the ball to where someone is going to be so that they can really run and leap forward with the technology. We are constantly frustrated by lack of vision in the engineering community that are more interested in teasing out increasingly introspective markets as opposed to really looking forward. In engineering CAD/CAM/PLM environments you feel almost an industry wide inertia. Similarly when we talk to folks that supply high end industrial cameras, we always make them go to the RED ONE website before we really start talking. Usually the response is red "what?" as they are very blinkered form selling lack luster products that are overpriced and underperform. The point of making them go to the RED ONE website, is to make it very clear that unless they really pull their finger out their days are numbered and we are tired of being fleeced.

We love the fact that the DSLR will have a complete rethink in terms of form factor. We design some beautiful precision stereoscopic camera systems around medium format backs and soon to be RED ONE. Sleek looks, yet highly functional, wouldn't look out of place on the set of 2001, our more "evil" looking instruments, on the set of the new BSG. However when we have to contend with the form factor of conventional SLRs they are so awkward to engineer around that it looks like someone had a dreadful accident with OEM parts in their garage. The form factor of the conventional DSLR really hampers integration into clean and slick product design.

Will post wish (engineering and SW specs) at the appropriate place.

Perhaps we send our development team to the beach for eight months rather than tear our hair out about how to engineer products around antiquated and inappropriate image capture systems.

RED ONE (vapor-ware you can trust and believe in!)

cheers all.

[Vincent Thomas]

Interestingly enough, DSMC does not compete with, or interfere with, Scarlet or Epic. It just makes DSLRs look like the past.

Jim



Well, as a photographer, i have to say that sometime the past gives a quality you may prefer that the present... Looks how the lens were build, the beauty of film...

Don't misunderstanding me, in the same time i do love the possibility of today technology. After all, i have been doing digital pictures for films for more than 10 years now, actually supervising the opening sequence of this new Terry Gilliam's movie .. But but.. i can only be carefull with your words Jim.. :)

Now i hope you will do, and i can't wait for.. :)

vincent*
PS: oh... Is there hope not to have a rolling shutter?

[therealmr]

Subscribing.

I'm a stills photographer who wants to see how this idea plays out. Especially those bold, bold statements :)

[RivaiC]

Coolest...? It's f**king perfect.
I've run out of things to dream of in a camera.
(for now :)

High speed camera 4K in 500fps

[Esteban Sosnitsky]

I am a still photographer DoP too. Here is my website:
www.esteban-sosnitsky.com
Feedback appreciated!

I am really interested in seeing how this comes out, I just bought a Mamiya AFD III with a Phase One P65+ Digital Back. Although I think that piece of equipment is great, I though I could have bought a couple more reds instead :) Or even save a little for Epic. :wink: My dream camera would be an affordable medium format DSLR with HDR and open platform to use any kind of lenses plus a serious Auto Focus tool that doesnt suck. Am I pointed in the right direction? :P

[Daniel Reichenbach]

If people are not stunned by the specs and design, I will retire... truly.

Jim
Was up at three in the morning, packed my two REDs (one is never enough) heading for a beautiful sunrise shot around six and said to myself: There is no way to retire the next 30 years, to much fun with RED and new stuff. Love your announcements, hehehe, what a crazy guy...

[Brent@RED]

WHOA WHOA just settle down mate, take a breath, there are always going to be that cynical bunch of people out there, you should know this by now.

Please retract your "retire" statement....
Pleeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaasssseeeeee.......:sad:

You WILL be stunned. My money is on Jim not retiring :) Everyone at RED is SO excited about the upcoming product that there are eventually going to be fistfights over who gets to do test shoots with what and when....

BC

[Nate Heartt]

super excited!!!!

[Tom Lowe]

How about some custom RED stuff? We are working on a lot of accessories for RED.

Jim

Jim, any chance you could put together an Epic 5K logo/sticker/t-shirt? My SUV needs a new sticker.

[James Brundige]

As far as glass is concerned... glass is easier than sensors. Just takes longer...

Jim

I'm having the same reaction I had when I walked into the Red booth in 2007. - "This is how it should be done"

Creating a film/video camera that took advantage of existing DSLR technology was brilliant. Now having a DSLR take advantage of the resulting innovations is a stunning idea.

[Maximus Imagimus]

i would love to buy stock, but not in a market place full of naked short selling pos.

[S. Um]

You WILL be stunned. My money is on Jim not retiring :) Everyone at RED is SO excited about the upcoming product that there are eventually going to be fistfights over who gets to do test shoots with what and when....

BC

Jim is usually excited about all the Red products, so his enthusiasm for this is to be expected. But when you get posts like this from the grunts, that's when you know you've got a hot product.

I'm looking forward to some great things from you guys. I just hope you can keep it fairly affordable.

[Michael Schrengohst]

I want to be electricified not "stunned".
Cows and criminals are stunned.

[Brent@RED]

But when you get posts like this from the grunts, that's when you know you've got a hot product.

"Grunt (noun): A common or unskilled worker; laborer." Ouch :pinch:

BC

[Deanan]

"Grunt (noun): A common or unskilled worker; laborer." Ouch :pinch:

BC

The only unskilled workers around here are the dogs.

[Jorge Díaz-Amador]

I've been looking to migrate to a digital still camera that will give me at least 100% of the quality I am now getting from 24 x 36 mm film.

In the last 20 years, I have only used a Nikon F3 and Contax G2. So I don't switch cameras very often.

I think I'll be making my next switch in 2009...

[Sarah C.]

If you guys can get one to Universal asap we might be able to test it for you on a studio feature. Please contact me if you have one available.

thanks,
Sarah

[dalen johnson]

We believe, and are developing for late 2009, a replacement for DSLRs. Currently, we call it a DSMC (Digital Still & Motion Camera).

So if I understand correctly this is being developed now for release in late 2009? Or is it that your shooting for development in late 2009?

Im actually looking into the new 24mp Sony just announced. (Always loved the functioning/layout of the Minolta/Sony cameras over the canon...)

But Im totally digging what you guys have done in the cinema/video world and if buying a DSLR would probably not hesitate to buy yours. :)

Peace

dAlen

[Jimmy Gitonga]

Aah! Just when I had put together my plan for the Canon 5D. And then a RED ONE. Now 2009 will be one great year.

RED ONE and DSMC? This is not real. Hahahahahaaaaaaa! :matrix:

[S. Um]

"Grunt (noun): A common or unskilled worker; laborer." Ouch :pinch:

BC

No offense intended guys. I know you are very skilled at what you do, and we all respect your contributions. It just says a lot to me to see that whole company so excited about a product.

[Mark L. Pederson]

Aldey & I will buy one for every single staff member who is working for us at the time you ship.

That's a promise.

[Joseph Ward]

Aldey & I will buy one for every single staff member who is working for us at the time you ship.

That's a promise.

Can I work for you?:)

[Tico Llaurador]

I was about to say that myself, Ayoji. Sending my resume today!

[ericyoung]

I won't comment on any specifics until the 1st of the year. But "revolution" applies more to this than the RED ONE did to cinema.

Jim

Well, buy IMS out (and set them up as European Service Centre - although want one in the UK too) and Birger (and give Erik Birger a job!), and have a mount system that is lens brand agnostic! :sorcerer:

[Ajit_AP]

I am excited but also worried. This sounds like another delay for scarlet, 4k projection.

[KETCH ROSSi]

This is a fantastic news Jim, but I truly hope that you do, as you did with the Cinema Cameras, make more then one to fit different needs, I would love to buy a 40D like "DSMC" for every day use, but I would sure would Love to buy an "DSMC" like the 1Ds III or better yet the Hassy H3DII 50 for my professional use.


In any event you have and will continue to have my unconditional support as I have already purchased 3 RED ONE, and even is circumstances were not favorable to me in keeping them all, I'll buy more of them as well as numerous SCARLETTs and EPICs, that much I can promise you.


Truly look forward to your move in Vegas, as you will literally be next door to my Studios, and look forward to things to come from you and your team, as I already see that they will be absolutely Amazing things of the feature to come of the electronic Digital media of the Still and Motion world of Photography.


ciao

[Ralph B.]

I've got a couple of questions you might be able to answer that have to do with SCARLET and the RED DSMC.

Question 1) Of the two if you had to just pick one which is more likely to be with you 100% of the time? I'm talking everything from a trip to the cafe or even on a long bike ride.

Question 2) Of the two if you had to choose just one which you would bring to an event like an athletic event or concert at the park that you need to capture?

Make no mistake, I'm getting both. I've been shooting SLR's since the original Nikon FM and I have just started to pick up moving pictures as a hobby for which SCARLET seems to be the most accessible tool in your toolbox.

Keep up the good work.

[Brent@RED]

No offense intended guys. I know you are very skilled at what you do, and we all respect your contributions. It just says a lot to me to see that whole company so excited about a product.

Just playin' :)

You are right, there is enough excitement around here to power the Strip in Vegas!

BC

[Harrison Diamond]

Jim, I have this gut feeling that if anyone can do this, it's you.
I have a big sense of brand loyalty. Right now that applies to Nikon, Apple, and RED.
I might not jump ship immediately when the DSMC comes out...but I've got this feeling that I'll have one within a year of it coming out.

Hopefully the DSMC will be a sufficient replacement for action/sports photography in terms of long glass quality/availability and autofocus.

Now the question is, how can I get a job with you guys :)

[ericyoung]

As far as glass is concerned... glass is easier than sensors. Just takes longer...

Jim

Long telephoto, wide wide, all f2.8 or faster at consumer prices? Wishing the best, but not expecting it! :w00t:

[Jarred Land]

The only unskilled workers around here are the dogs.

hey now.. leave the puppies out of it.

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

How about some custom RED stuff? We are working on a lot of accessories for RED.

Jim

If you tell me that Scarlet mattebox was not scratched I'll be happy.

:sarcasm:

[Kyle Mallory]

Jim, Jarred... Stop distracting Deanan with images of new DSMC's dancing in his head. He's got a Linux SDK and Adobe plugins to deliver!

Now get back to work! ;-)

[Kyle Mallory]

Oh, and the best part of this new DSMC... My wife will stop nagging the shit out of me about my "Hummer" of a camera, and "RED RED RED". She's the still photographer in the house! I can finally start wearing the pants in the house again! "Get back in the kitchen, woman! Fix me dinner and then we'll talk about your new little RED."

[conrad gaunt]

The only unskilled workers around here are the dogs.

Is that fair? I've never met a dog that doesn't know exactly what its doing, they're normally very professional, especially at begging, going walkies and sleeping ..being a dog is a full time job you know

[Tobias Straka]

... ! :w00t:

[Sander de Regt]

Oh man another camera that I will by. The wife is going to shoot me...
At least she will shoot you with the latest and greatest camera available!

[RicanJoe]

Canon and Nikon have gotta be pulling their hair out right about now. And Im glad.

[Michael Schrengohst]

Canon and Nikon have gotta be pulling their hair out right about now. And Im glad.

I hope so. This is like the space race in the 60's.

[Hrvoje Simic]

I love seeing RED evolve and create the future. Truly exciting times.

Rock on RED. "Show 'em watcha got..."

[harveyfloyd]

Wow! How do you get involved in beta testing. I have huge things I want to do with a camera like this. Seriously, I was going to write RED a letter explaining the benefits of just such a camera. I have some cutting edge products I want to use this camera for.

[Joseph Ward]

Its like Red worked backwards(I mean this in a good way) start from hardest, Cinema, then do Still! :shiftyph34r:

[Matt Uhry]

3 major cameras that are in development, before you've caught up shipping the first product ?
Please don't skip the boring stuff like that set of Primes I ordered last year! ...

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

[Tico Llaurador]

or something mundane like that.

Now, that's a troubling thought, Matt.

:waaa:

[RicanJoe]

This stuff is pretty simple.

1. Have the best sensor program.
2. Have the decision-maker be a shooter.
3. Don't have a legacy program to deal with.
4. Love this industry. Stay up 18 hours a day working on it. Have great people around you as passionate as you are.

The rest is a piece of cake.

Jim

5. Have money

[Hugues Wisniewski]

We believe, and are developing for late 2009, a replacement for DSLRs.

I cannot start to even think of believing what I'm reading :biggrin:

Isn't it too early for the announcement? Won't that leave too much time for the competition to react?
I'm sure you have thought through the positive repercussions of this early posting ... or is it just because someone told you I was planning on buying a Nikon D300 sometime soon and finally drop my film Nikon camera?
Ok then, I'll wait a bit longer, you win.

[Jason Ing]

6. Actually listen to your customers and deliver the goods. (Apparently this isn't simple or a piece of cake because other companies can't do it like Red can.)

7. Don't price gouge or nickle and dime.

[Jason Ing]

Won't that leave too much time for the competition to react? They have a hard enough time acting on their own, let alone reacting to Red's speed and ability. Sony just announced their new camera and it got covered in the news with the title, "Sony declares War" or something like that. I almost laughed.

It doesn't matter what the competition does. They will always be "re"acting to Red's actions. I have ZERO worries that my Red camera won't have some feature or better technology like I do with my Canon 40D (which is already has been equaled by its new, and cheaper, little brother, the XSI).

But ever since buying my Red, I get improvement after improvement and hear about more coming down the pipe. I also hear other professionals, techies, etc. that voice their opinions, wants, desires, wish lists, etc. and Red listens and delivers... QUICKLY. There is no company out there, Canon, Nikon, Sony, etc. that does that.

Jim creates intelligent, innovative, cutting edge, HIGH-QUALITY products packed with "the best of" wishlists and then sells it at a more then fair, possibly generous price. Unbelievable.

That's why I'm willing to put my money down on the DSMC sight unseen (and I never do that) and I wouldn't even feel like I'm betting.

[Zakaree Sandberg]

Wow! How do you get involved in beta testing. I have huge things I want to do with a camera like this. Seriously, I was going to write RED a letter explaining the benefits of just such a camera. I have some cutting edge products I want to use this camera for.

you buy the camera.

[Michael Schrengohst]

I cannot start to even think of believing what I'm reading :biggrin:

Isn't it too early for the announcement? Won't that leave too much time for the competition to react?
I'm sure you have thought through the positive repercussions of this early posting ... or is it just because someone told you I was planning on buying a Nikon D300 sometime soon and finally drop my film Nikon camera?
Ok then, I'll wait a bit longer, you win.

Hah they got you! Same reason why many sales of $2500-$10,000 cameras has probably slowed as shooters wait for Scarlett. I have rented RED for some shoots and I love the quality. I have been a still shooter for almost 35 years and it looks like I will be buying my last DSLR! (Wife cheering in the background)

[lubomir.zvolensky]

Isn't it too early for the announcement? Won't that leave too much time for the competition to react?




to react to what? To non-existing product without any details or specification? To react to 48mm x 36mm backlight sensor with almost perfectly noise-free iso25600 which doesn't exist yet? To react to distortion-free stabilized superglass, 600mm equivalent in 35mm world, T2.8, going to be sold for $2999 ? To react to 30fps 36Mpix more-than-full-frame-super-uber-DSLR combined with 2K/3K digital cinema camera shooting indefinitely 240fps 3K 3072x1728 [=5.3Mpix] costing $3999 ?

"the competition" does not know what to react to. There is nothing to react to... yet. But I hope RED Warriors will catch 'em all totally unprepared... as usually. I can't help myself but I still do NOT see a single competetive reaction to RED ONE, I still can't find a single 4K camera for $17.5k not speaking about any other specs...

GO SH00T 'EM JIM!

[Giancarlo Bianchi]

I hope so. This is like the space race in the 60's.

Yeah! But RED is the only one making progess!!!! At this pace, will get to Vega an back by 2010.

[grandpa it burns]

This is a dream come true! Wait, where am I? I'm tapping heels of my magic slippers together right now. No... seriously, I am.

[Tico Llaurador]

Grandpa! You're back!

[ThydNostrum]

3 major cameras that are in development, before you've caught up shipping the first product ?
Please don't skip the boring stuff like that set of Primes I ordered last year! ...

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

Now. that is an interesting thought.

[grandpa it burns]

Grandpa! You're back!

It takes miracles like this to get me out of my armchair these days.

[JoePhoto]

Sounds very interesting - I'm always glad to see technology being pushed. I'll be honest that I'm going to take the bold marketing statements with a grain of salt until I'm proven wrong. I'm anxious to hear the announcement and hope I can revisit this post and appologize for not buying into the hype right away.

One very important thing is the cost of the system needs to be kept in the realm of current DSLR's or your only client will be NASA. I hope it's a complete still system which can utilize strobes and speedlights, as well as have a truely wide range of autofocus lenses like those in Canon or Nikon's catalogue.


I am already using my RED ONE as a DSLR. I still cannot understand why anyone would rely on timing to "capture the moment" in fashion, sports, nature or most other photography when you can just shoot the entire shoot in print resolution and then forward frame-by-frame in RedCine allowing the client to pick the "shot" they like best. Export as TIFF, open in Photoshop, color correct, convert to CMYK and send it to press.


I have serious issues with statements like this. You are seriously undermining a very good skill set that separates professionals from "spray and prayers". A skilled still photographer can rely on timing and capture the moment in one or two frames rather than a hundred a second. They can prep & edit that one frame and have it ready to present to the client before a videographer can get the video downloaded to a working drive let alone find the frame sequence. As far as showing the client a huge range of repetitive unfinished images, I'd personally much rather have control over what images they are presented with to ensure they never see anything but polished results. Less time in post production and a dramatically lower cost of doing business. Quality over quantity, IMO.

[Zakaree Sandberg]

I have serious issues with statements like this. You are seriously undermining a very good skill set that separates professionals from "spray and prayers". A skilled still photographer can rely on timing and capture the moment in one or two frames rather than a hundred a second. They can prep & edit that one frame and have it ready to present to the client before a videographer can get the video downloaded to a working drive let alone find the frame sequence. As far as showing the client a huge range of repetitive unfinished images, I'd personally much rather have control over what images they are presented with to ensure they never see anything but polished results. Less time in post production and a dramatically lower cost of doing business. Quality over quantity, IMO.


timing doesnt have anything to do with it anymore.. you dont need timing with RED... a picture viewer doesnt care if it was picked out from 23 more frames per second or shot on a whim.. as long as they have the picture they are happy..

[Zakaree Sandberg]

also.. im not saying you dont need talent.... because the main talent is in framing the shot as well as shot choice...

[Friedrich Moser]

A skilled still photographer can rely on timing and capture the moment in one or two frames rather than a hundred a second. They can prep & edit that one frame and have it ready to present to the client before a videographer can get the video downloaded to a working drive let alone find the frame sequence. As far as showing the client a huge range of repetitive unfinished images, I'd personally much rather have control over what images they are presented with to ensure they never see anything but polished results. Less time in post production and a dramatically lower cost of doing business. Quality over quantity, IMO.

I see it as a new approach, with it pros and cons. The talent "to capture the moment" will still be required. But as we have to deliver stills as well Red allows us to deliver what we were actually shooting. This is the fulfillment of a desire.

When starting into a new doc last week, a very personal intimate story, by exporting the stills from a test interview for viewing it was a great help for me as well to get focussed on the non-verbal expressions of the protagonist. I think opposed to limiting down something, Red instead is always and ever opening up new possibilities - it is enhancing creativity, not limiting it.

But Red is changing the business. Societies need this spirit. Hopefully Jim will get into car manufacturing as well some day - our concept of mobility needs a revolution as well :construction:
Just my 2c.

Fritz

[bmontauk14]

this sounds so awesome. sweet news.

[Evin Grant]

timing doesnt have anything to do with it anymore.. you dont need timing with RED... a picture viewer doesnt care if it was picked out from 23 more frames per second or shot on a whim.. as long as they have the picture they are happy..

I disagree, still & motion photography are cousins not siblings. They require wholly different approaches to attain pro caliber results. Not to mention the completely different use of shutter speed/angle. Unless you are specifically looking to capture a series for use as multiple images a "spray and pray" approach is as creatively deadening as "Let it roll" was on DV. There is an urgency and a creativity that is imbued by the "Decisive Moment" (http://www.e-photobooks.com/cartier-bresson/decisive-moment.html). If you don't believe me ask Mr. Cartier Bresson.

[John Caballero]

When Scarlet was to be announced I was expecting it to be more of a DSLR design style and I voiced that opinion in the old Scarlet section of reduser. I knew a lot of people would like that concept. Scarlet's design was not to be DSLR style but I wasn't wrong in my thinking. That is what the future holds, the union of stills and motion in one camera. In my opinion, yes, siblings not cousins, they are born from the same mother, image capturing. One is just faster than the other. I just got the D90 and I am excited by the possibilities Red will bring with its DSLR. If only time could go by faster.

[Evin Grant]

Also, think of how much control you give up when you open an image sequence and say "Pick one". They might as well just hire a PA off of Craigs list to shoot it and just fix it in post.

[Matthew Verkler]

Also, think of how much control you give up when you open an image sequence and say "Pick one". They might as well just hire a PA off of Craigs list to shoot it and just fix it in post.

True "democratization" . . . . . it would make the MBA-style producers of the world very happy. :angry2:

Unfortunately, this is a little too close to reality sometimes.

[Daniel Reichenbach]

Wow, 156 replies and 23500 viewers just in some hours - don't know if the pope would have the same amount of readers, when he would pray that the messiah will come again. ;-)

[Priyesh P.]

I disagree, still & motion photography are cousins not siblings. They require wholly different approaches to attain pro caliber results. Not to mention the completely different use of shutter speed/angle. Unless you are specifically looking to capture a series for use as multiple images a "spray and pray" approach is as creatively deadening as "Let it roll" was on DV. There is an urgency and a creativity that is imbued by the "Decisive Moment" (http://www.e-photobooks.com/cartier-bresson/decisive-moment.html). If you don't believe me ask Mr. Cartier Bresson.

Evin, you`re absolutely spot on with this.
You can`t compare them and anyone doing it or even using a red one or epic for a photo shoot can`t be taken serious in my opinion.

It`s already a major pain in the ass doing digital film shoots since directors and even actors don`t take the "rolling" as seriously as it used to be. The amount of useless stock "exploded" since DV came out.

I know a german record label and their "dv-tape-archive", I once even had "the pleasure" to edit something for them... based on my obervation from that project I estimate that there must be a wasted investment of 5000-10000 euros in DV tapes laying around filled with pure garbage. Heck, I`ve seen takes of 20 minutes length were the camera was aimed at two guys reading books...

[lubomir.zvolensky]

I have serious issues with statements like this. You are seriously undermining a very good skill set that separates professionals from "spray and prayers". A skilled still photographer can rely on timing and capture the moment in one or two frames rather than a hundred a second.



I definitely agree with your "quality over quantity" but I'm sure you understand that it's quite difficult sometimes to catch the absolutely most precise moment with 6fps and even 10fps, and absolutely impossible with 3fps. Take, for example, NASCAR racing, recent Olympics event etc. You could be the second best photographer in the world and you won't catch the moment with "traditional" photogear... and I'll have it, just because I was shooting 100fps with RED. You will never catch the "contact" moment of crash in car race when first bumper is starting to be broken by second one... things are happening cruelly fast.

Oh yes, for studio work, portraits, architecture and such, I would not prefer RED [yet, maybe in a year or two situation will change]. Definitely, it is VERY VERY nice to see merger between two very different areas : still photography and moving pictures. We need more stuff like D90, the new 5D whatever-the-name-will-be, RED ONE [where you are able to pull out single frames and use them as photography!] and hereby announced new kind of DSCM or what it was :) I really like price of Sony A900, full-frame, 24Mpix new-generation sensor... I really like price of RED ONE, Scarlet and I'm looking forward for this announcement to materialize.

[Michael Schrengohst]

"Heck, I`ve seen takes of 20 minutes length were the camera was aimed at two guys reading books..."

How was the audio?

I was editing some crap that a client shot on DV the other day. They at least had a lav mike thrown on the person. Go to the last interview. No audio.
They ask how can I fix it? I say re-shoot...they ask if I can put sub-titles in...I said sure! Who can read lips? They are re-shooting next week.

[Tim Fassnacht]

You're like the Willy Wonka of cameras.
I just shit my pants

[Zakaree Sandberg]

Evin,
Touche'

[ThydNostrum]

Jim will burn through his fortune even before RED ONE will become a finished product. All the other announcements and dreams and pronouncements will be forgotten.
Those who waited for these fantastic products will go and buy D90 or whatever the Canon and Sony and Nikon sells. These companies do not make an announcement until they have finished product stacked up in warehouses ready for sale.
Beware of counting (or announcing ) the chickens before they are hatched.

[Andrew Benz]

Jim will burn through his fortune even before RED ONE will become a finished product. All the other announcements and dreams and pronouncements will be forgotten.
Those who waited for these fantastic products will go and buy D90 or whatever the Canon and Sony and Nikon sells. These companies do not make an announcement until they have finished product stacked up in warehouses ready for sale.
Beware of counting (or announcing ) the chickens before they are hatched.

Wow....

[JoePhoto]

I disagree, still & motion photography are cousins not siblings. They require wholly different approaches to attain pro caliber results. Not to mention the completely different use of shutter speed/angle. Unless you are specifically looking to capture a series for use as multiple images a "spray and pray" approach is as creatively deadening as "Let it roll" was on DV. There is an urgency and a creativity that is imbued by the "Decisive Moment" (http://www.e-photobooks.com/cartier-bresson/decisive-moment.html). If you don't believe me ask Mr. Cartier Bresson.


+1

This is what I'm talking about. I really can't say it any better than you did. Those that think pulling frames from a video will replace still photography don't get the art of still photography.

[JoePhoto]

I definitely agree with your "quality over quantity" but I'm sure you understand that it's quite difficult sometimes to catch the absolutely most precise moment with 6fps and even 10fps, and absolutely impossible with 3fps. Take, for example, NASCAR racing, recent Olympics event etc. You could be the second best photographer in the world and you won't catch the moment with "traditional" photogear... and I'll have it, just because I was shooting 100fps with RED. You will never catch the "contact" moment of crash in car race when first bumper is starting to be broken by second one... things are happening cruelly fast.

I'm not sure you give still shooters and their capabilities enough credit here. Now more than ever sports shooters not only have amazing sets of gear to choose from, but many are also using wifi so as they shoot, the images are copied onto computers so images can be reviewed, edited, and sent to print or publish while the even is taking place.

Interesting you bring up the Olympics - the shot that captured Phelps touching the board first to win was a spray & pray from an underwater 1D3 (I think) rig. But the one where the MoS picture of taekwondo girl Sarah landing a kick overturns result to win bronze for Britain (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1048631/MoS-picture-taekwondo-girl-Sarah-landing-kick-overturns-result-win-bronze-Britain.html) was the defining moment, with a D3. The photographer knew he had it rght after it happened and chimped the results to the appropriate channels.

I'm far from an Olympic sports shooter, but I got my start in photography by shooting sports, baseball, football, ice & inline hockey. After a while of shooting and developing my skillset, I could nail the ball on the bat every pitch (if the ball was hit) or the bending of the stick during a slapshot with one click. One frame.

I'm not saying there aren't new doors to be opened with this technology, but it's not taking over the world by any means.


Oh yes, for studio work, portraits, architecture and such, I would not prefer RED [yet, maybe in a year or two situation will change]. Definitely, it is VERY VERY nice to see merger between two very different areas : still photography and moving pictures. We need more stuff like D90, the new 5D whatever-the-name-will-be, RED ONE [where you are able to pull out single frames and use them as photography!] and hereby announced new kind of DSCM or what it was :) I really like price of Sony A900, full-frame, 24Mpix new-generation sensor... I really like price of RED ONE, Scarlet and I'm looking forward for this announcement to materialize.

I'm with you I like seeing video and stills converge into interesting products. That said, the process, techniques, and abilities of both trades are different enough, that no matter how good a video is at pulling stills and no matter how good a still camera is at making video, there are inherent trates of both that can't be replicated by the other based on the differences of the processes that take place. Each has their place, and it's silly to think that one will be replaced by the other. I actually see the availability to offer new products & experiences to our clients on both sides of the fence rather than the demise of one profession.

[david farland]

I just shit my pants
ask your mom to clean it up....and tell her you're not ready for the internet till say you're at least 10 years old!
D

[Benni Diez]

Hmmmm let me guess... Ultra high resolution, providing enough subpixels to post-compute DoF and Z-depth? Jim, if you do that I'll switch gender and stalk you!
Ok, maybe not...

[arun]

jimmm can i ask u onething? r u planing to change whole the world? is that ur future plan? then am nt gonna buy any laptops cameras and displays till 2010 jann....lol

[kunal2]

Very interesting to read: http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1032&message=29265153

[lubomir.zvolensky]

Jim, would you - please - start making electric cars in 2010? I'm looking forward for some family van, like Chrysler Town&Country [european version : Grand Voyager] with 300 mile coverage on one set of batteries, fully chargeable in four hours. Dynamic parameters are not interesting for me at all, we are talking super-electric engine here. Four motors, built in wheels.

Oh yes, don't forget the price : below $7000 including 50" plazma and DVD/BlueRay entertainment system please :)

[fde101]

Canon 40D (which is already has been equaled by its new, and cheaper, little brother, the XSI).

Why is it that a camera gets "equated" when some of its features are caught up with?

There's more to a camera than just its feature set or its sensor. Little things like user interface, ruggedness, weight and so on are important as well.

The XSI is not just "new, cheaper" but a consumer-grade camera. UI is going to be different than what you'll get on the amature-grade 40D. Also, the 40D is going to be heavier and will be much more stable when used with the superior-quality higher-grade lenses. The lens mount on the XSI won't be able to handle the weight of the heavier lenses as easily.

I'm sure the XSI is great for what it is, but I'd hardly consider it as a plausible upgrade for my 30D. 40D maybe, but not a consumer-grade cam. They generally don't have enough weight to suit me anymore.

I've been spoiled by the better equipment...

[Wayne D]

Jim - are you a Time Lord?

[Priyesh P.]

"Heck, I`ve seen takes of 20 minutes length were the camera was aimed at two guys reading books..."

How was the audio?

LOL. Don`t know about their inner monologues...



I was editing some crap that a client shot on DV the other day. They at least had a lav mike thrown on the person. Go to the last interview. No audio.
They ask how can I fix it? I say re-shoot...they ask if I can put sub-titles in...I said sure! Who can read lips? They are re-shooting next week.

Jesus. How dumb can clients be...

[Benni Diez]

below $7000 including 50" plazma and DVD/BlueRay entertainment system please :)

I'm sure you meant Red Ray, didn'tcha!

[Steve Gibby]

Why is it that a camera gets "equated" when some of its features are caught up with?

There's more to a camera than just its feature set or its sensor. Little things like user interface, ruggedness, weight and so on are important as well.

The XSI is not just "new, cheaper" but a consumer-grade camera. UI is going to be different than what you'll get on the amature-grade 40D. Also, the 40D is going to be heavier and will be much more stable when used with the superior-quality higher-grade lenses. The lens mount on the XSI won't be able to handle the weight of the heavier lenses as easily.

I'm sure the XSI is great for what it is, but I'd hardly consider it as a plausible upgrade for my 30D. 40D maybe, but not a consumer-grade cam. They generally don't have enough weight to suit me anymore.

I've been spoiled by the better equipment...

As a backup body I bought an XSi a few months ago. It's a pleasant surprise to work with! I added the dual battery accessory to make the camera larger and heavier in my hand. All my L series lenses mount just fine, and the bottom line is the results have been excellent. At 12.2MP, with a feature set that includes live action view, 3" LCD, and a long list of features that mirror the more expensive Canon DSLRs, I certainly wouldn't write the XSi off as just a "consumer" camera. Fact is it has a large number of pro-level features, and in the experienced hands of a pro it turns out pro results.

BTW #1 - I sold my other backup body DSLR after I bought and tested out the XSi - and it was a 30D.

BTW #2 - Beyond the low-end XSi, I'm not planning on buying another high-end DSLR until i personally check out and test the new RED DSMC. I expect it to be remarkable, nothing less.

[xdirector]

Hi dear

am new user with a new reed 4k
i have a simple question
how can i edit the red files
- i need a plugin to dont lost qualite or something ?
- i have to use avid or final cut for the 4096x2048 ?

thnks for help

[Tom Lowe]

Why is it that a camera gets "equated" when some of its features are caught up with?

There's more to a camera than just its feature set or its sensor. Little things like user interface, ruggedness, weight and so on are important as well.

The XSI is not just "new, cheaper" but a consumer-grade camera. UI is going to be different than what you'll get on the amature-grade 40D. Also, the 40D is going to be heavier and will be much more stable when used with the superior-quality higher-grade lenses. The lens mount on the XSI won't be able to handle the weight of the heavier lenses as easily.

I'm sure the XSI is great for what it is, but I'd hardly consider it as a plausible upgrade for my 30D. 40D maybe, but not a consumer-grade cam. They generally don't have enough weight to suit me anymore.

I've been spoiled by the better equipment...

I don't really follow this argument. You need your camera to be heavier?? Add a battery grip. I think the bottom line is that many 40D buyers felt burned after the XSI came out. Message boards are full of 40D owners badmouthing the XSI. I generally see more emotion in their posts than anything else.

[gimmix]

can't wait to see the revolution happen :D

[Jason Ing]

Technology will always eventually be "caught up with" and passed by.

Maybe "equaled" wasn't exactly the right word. XSI isn't equal to the 40D in many ways, other then the most important, the sensor. So I don't regret getting the 40D (yet) and not having the XSI. In fact, I convinced a friend to get the 40D over the XSI recently and just pay the few hundred bucks different because those extra features make a difference. But will there be newer technology that will make me want to dump the 40D? Yes. Nikon's new low light feature seems interesting. And I know Canon will respond in kind.

But my main point is that Red truly delivered on making obsolecence obsolete.

"Planned obsolecence" is just evil, corporate greed. And that's not the only evil planning . I know that corporations already have technologies that they hold off on to include in the "next generation" that births in only 1 year.

Hey Jim, I'm wondering if "making obsolecence obsolete" applies to the DSMC as well? If the body is the best of the best with all the bells and whistles, ergonomical, modular, customizable, firmware upgradeable (ala Red One), etc., will we be able to pay for just the upgrade of the newest sensor?

[Tom Lowe]

I think they have basically hinted at the fact that, yes, the Red "DSLR Killer" will be upgradeable.

I agree with you that Canon, Nikon, etc, are disgraceful for building $7,000 DSLRs that cannot be upgraded. People who dropped that kind of money on a 1DsM2 are littered across the internet right now trying to hock their Mark IIs for a couple grand before the new 5D comes out.

Jim has exposed this kind of business practice for what it is.

[Steve Weinrebe]

Great news! I write a column on convergence and this is good news from Red, and a shot across the bow to DSLR manufacturers who are still using a form factor based on roll film. Please send any press releases that I can post at my blog and check out recent pertinent interviews there and at DoubleExposure.com.

Very much look forward to more info about the DSMC!

Steve

[Jason Ing]

I think they have basically hinted at the fact that, yes, the Red "DSLR Killer" will be upgradeable.

I agree with you that Canon, Nikon, etc, are disgraceful for building $7,000 DSLRs that cannot be upgraded. People who dropped that kind of money on a 1DsM2 are littered across the internet right now trying to hock their Mark IIs for a couple grand before the new 5D comes out.

Jim has exposed this kind of business practice for what it is.

Maybe I'm wrong, but Jim is killing more then just the DSLR. He's killing that kind of overpriced, gouging, planned obsolecence mentality. He cuts to the chase and cuts the crap. Just make the best possible and sell it at a fantastic price. Everyone will flock to you.

If the same "paradigm" of what he did with Red One he does with the DSMC, then the $7k high-end, professional quality camera becomes a mere $1k-ish. Which would be astounding because everyone will know that if Canon, Nikon, Sony had the same camera, they'd sell it for $15k+.

Jim will corner the market.

[Jason Ing]

I wonder as the big boys watch in frustration and envy at Jim & Red Co.'s success, if they'll equate it to the product or his business model and philosophy? And if they actually do see the light, how will they respond to his business model and philosophy? Can you imagine them actually having to listen to customers and doing something about it... quickly? Or selling their high-end quality stuff at consumer prices?

Anyway, enough business talk for me. Me saying all this is like telling Einstein "E=MC2" or giving Tiger Woods golfing advice (I don't play golf).

[Tom Lowe]

Maybe I'm wrong, but Jim is killing more then just the DSLR. He's killing that kind of overpriced, gouging, planned obsolecence mentality. He cuts to the chase and cuts the crap. Just make the best possible and sell it at a fantastic price. Everyone will flock to you.

If the same "paradigm" of what he did with Red One he does with the DSMC, then the $7k high-end, professional quality camera becomes a mere $1k-ish. Which would be astounding because everyone will know that if Canon, Nikon, Sony had the same camera, they'd sell it for $15k+.

Jim will corner the market.

Well don't count on $1,000... we have no idea what this camera is going to be capable of or worth.

[Jason Ing]

Darn. :)

But why'd you say that Tom? Now Jim will know what it's really worth and start getting ideas.

Seriously, although my numbers ratio comparison might be off, I am curious what the price will be considering the amazing "what you get for your money" in the case of Red One.

[Steve Sanacore]

It's been said many times that RED represents the beginning of the end, as we know it of a sports shooter. If you can do 100fps and get a 24MP still image of some quality, then why would you need a Nikon or Canon?

Nikon and Canon coming up with HD recordigns on DSLR's is quaint, but not a selling point for me. I am into the quality of the image. Video, to date, and it's still images have never blown me away until I started seeing the RED footage. It's still not there (IMHO) but it's closer than ever.

RED needs to get the scarlet out in commercial volumes as a testeer to its ability to produce something that will have real demand. This is a truly interesting device and more than a few of my colleagues are gagging at the bit until it's introduced.

Stock options? No way, I agree. Jim and Co need to be free to develop and innovate. If it's $$ they need, make sure it's only 48% they hand over to investors, and even this would change the way they operate.

Bring it on..... You have my vote and $$.

Rob

As a working still photographer, I think there are many differences in how I shoot stills vs. how I shoot motion. In some cases maybe you can grab stills from the motion footage and get great results, but there are also many cases where shutter speed is very important to the look of the image. Those exposure times that create the "look" for the still shot would probably cause problems with any motion footage shots. A still image is very unforgiving compared with a frame of 24fps footage.

I think a dual purpose camera can work, but not always capturing motion and stills together at the same time.

And wide angle lenses for full frame 24MP sensors are very difficult to make well. My pick would be a Zeiss ZF (Nikon) mount. Of course with a Canon mount, you could use almost any lens.

The Nikon D3 and Canon 1Ds Mk3 are great cameras.

Looking forward to see what you come up with Jim!

[Bing Bailey]

if redcode is the base format for the stills than photoshop will already have support via the plugin. maybe it'll require a few tweaks. but it'll be there already a good year before the DSMC ships.

[Steve Sanacore]

I think they have basically hinted at the fact that, yes, the Red "DSLR Killer" will be upgradeable.

I agree with you that Canon, Nikon, etc, are disgraceful for building $7,000 DSLRs that cannot be upgraded. People who dropped that kind of money on a 1DsM2 are littered across the internet right now trying to hock their Mark IIs for a couple grand before the new 5D comes out.

Jim has exposed this kind of business practice for what it is.

Tom

I usually agree with you but in this case I think you are a bit over the top. The last generation of 35mm Pro film camera bodies were close to $3000. A digital version with truly state of the art sensors and computing power for $5000 is not that out of line. Maybe the Canon for $8000 is a bit steep but it's still not a big deal for a working pro that needs gear at that level of build quality.

I think comparing an XSI to an top of the line Canon 1D or 1Ds, or Nikon D3 is like comparing an HVX200 to an Arri 435. If you have used them both as I have on a daily basis, I am sure you would agree.

I do agree however that a future RED camera without all the hardware from the old film camera models, may be a great step forward for us all. An electronic viewfinder with a fantastic sensor a generation ahead of Canon or Nikon or (now) Sony, would be right up RED's alley... and a very welcome piece of gear!

Like I always say, these are exciting times...

[Purple]

Jim,

I don't want to rain on your parade. You're a great businessman, and an inspiration for us all.

But, what it comes down is basically price (all those 4000+ happy customers that you currently have would not be here if you sold the Red One for half a million dollars).

I guess the sensor in the Red One costs 10'000$ to make. Well, frankly, the D90 has put you in a position caught with your pants down, because a very similar sensor can obviously be made for a tenth of the price.

And that's where the market is moving. We all know Moore's law.

So when you are saying "If people are not stunned by the specs and design, I will retire", well here's what we truly want to be stunned by: the price.

In 12-18 months, it will be quite likely that one can build a camera similar to the Red One (35mm 4K, 30-120fps, 11 stops, exchangeable lenses) for about 3000$. Yes this statement hurts to say (hurts you, hurts all the current buyers).

My public question to you would then be: Jim, are you going to create this camera, or will you let somebody else overtake you in this race?

[Jason Ing]

Well, frankly, the D90 has put you in a position caught with your pants down, because a very similar sensor can obviously be made for a tenth of the price.


If you mean the Nikon D90, then...

...Frankly, you have no idea what you're talking about.

D90? Similar sensor? Pants down?

It says here (http://www.nikonusa.com/Find-Your-Nikon/Product/Digital-SLR/25446/D90.html) (http://www.nikonusa.com/Find-Your-Nikon/Product/Digital-SLR/25446/D90.html)) that the D90's format is "Motion jpg".

You do know the difference between jpg and RAW, don't you?

lol.

[James T Mather]

Unfortunately, the world is full of pillocks with Uninformed Strong Opinions. Natural selection should diminish their numbers in a few hundred years.
Here's hoping.

[Jason Murphy]

Unfortunately, the world is full of pillocks with Uninformed Strong Opinions. Natural selection should diminish their numbers in a few hundred years.
Here's hoping.

Not so sure about that. Seen Mike Judge's Idiocracy? :)

[Jason Rivera]

...our concept of mobility needs a revolution as well :construction:
Just my 2c.

Fritz

Agreed! 100 years overdue!

[Kyle_Doris]

Wow. Purple. I rarely post, but that statement isn't that informed. You have to get hands-on with the D90 to know why it and the RED are virtually impossible to compare. When it comes to D-Movie, the only real significance I see it holding is that Nikon (and people are claiming Canon too, which is unconfirmed) has reacted to RED. But between the weird exposures and the odd shutter and the wobbling...

the D90 video mode is an 'alpha run' and all the issues, starting with motion JPG and overheating don't simply fix themselves over time because of Moore's Law...it doesn't work that way.

[James T Mather]

Not so sure about that. Seen Mike Judge's Idiocracy? :)

Yep - "Ow my Balls": the Film's resident TV show may be horribly prescient if current TV trends are to continue.

[Purple]

It says here (http://www.nikonusa.com/Find-Your-Nikon/Product/Digital-SLR/25446/D90.html) (http://www.nikonusa.com/Find-Your-Nikon/Product/Digital-SLR/25446/D90.html)) that the D90's format is "Motion jpg".

You do know the difference between jpg and RAW, don't you?

lol.

I'm not here to offend anyone (not sure about you).
I'm comparing sensors. Both cams have a ~4K ~35mm sensor. Red One outputs all those pixels up to 60 times per second, the Nikon one outputs all those pixels up to 24 times per second.

"Motion jpg" is about the output pipeline, which is different in both systems (which is why my predicted camera is more expensive then the Nikon). You do realize those differences, right?

Since the sensor is the most expensive part of the system, a difference of 17.5k$ vs. 1k$ for a very similar package makes me very attentive, and should you too.

Cheers.

[Ariana]

Red One outputs all those pixels up to 60 times per second, the Nikon one outputs all those pixels up to 24 times per second.

One of the photo websites explained that it's only sampling 720 lines out of the 2848 which is why it aliases really badly. I think that means it's really 6fps if it were to do the full sensor. The specs for full sensor recording is 4.5 fps. Maybe they squeeze more fps in 720 mode because it's not pushing as much data through.

[Purple]

Wow. Purple. I rarely post, but that statement isn't that informed. You have to get hands-on with the D90 to know why it and the RED are virtually impossible to compare. When it comes to D-Movie, the only real significance I see it holding is that Nikon (and people are claiming Canon too, which is unconfirmed) has reacted to RED. But between the weird exposures and the odd shutter and the wobbling...

the D90 video mode is an 'alpha run' and all the issues, starting with motion JPG and overheating don't simply fix themselves over time because of Moore's Law...it doesn't work that way.

Well there are clearly open issues. "Exposures" might be a bug, "wobbling" might need a new sensor, I'm not a sensor engineer. Overheating might be a problem, but solving an overheating problem will not add 5000$ to a cam as long as you can bear some added weight for fans etc.

But it's clear that progress is going forward at a very rapid pace. There will be something competing with the Red One in 2008/2009 for a price well below 10k$. It amazes me that nobody can see that trajectory in a forum where people are holding the very embodiment of this trajectory in their own hands.

Cheers.

[Purple]

One of the photo websites explained that it's only sampling 720 lines out of the 2848 which is why it aliases really badly. I think that means it's really 6fps if it were to do the full sensor. The specs for full sensor recording is 4.5 fps. Maybe they squeeze more fps in 720 mode because it's not pushing as much data through.

Interesting. Have you got a link for that aliasing/720 statement? Thanks.

I believe to remember somebody from Red mentioned here once that the Red One sensor cannot be read out in such a fashion (when people asked for a 120fps mode with 35mm depth of field), and that this is a limit with most CMOS sensors.

Since the D90 has a CMOS sensor, too, I'm using this as an element of my case.

[Jason Ing]

I'm not here to offend anyone (not sure about you).


So you don't think telling Jim that he got caught with his pants down isn't offensive?

I'm sure you meant to be as funny, tongue in cheek, and teasing in tone as my post.

Cheers. ;)

[Jason Ing]

"Motion jpg" is about the output pipeline, which is different in both systems (which is why my predicted camera is more expensive then the Nikon). You do realize those differences, right?


And what comes out of this "pipeline"? A RAW or jpg file? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_JPEG (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_JPEG))

What comes out of Red One, Epic, Scarlet, and, I'm assuming, the DSMC, are RAW files.

Not to be offensive or anything... but you might want to pull your pants up. :)

[Tom Lowe]

Tom

I usually agree with you but in this case I think you are a bit over the top. The last generation of 35mm Pro film camera bodies were close to $3000. A digital version with truly state of the art sensors and computing power for $5000 is not that out of line. Maybe the Canon for $8000 is a bit steep but it's still not a big deal for a working pro that needs gear at that level of build quality.

I think comparing an XSI to an top of the line Canon 1D or 1Ds, or Nikon D3 is like comparing an HVX200 to an Arri 435. If you have used them both as I have on a daily basis, I am sure you would agree.

I do agree however that a future RED camera without all the hardware from the old film camera models, may be a great step forward for us all. An electronic viewfinder with a fantastic sensor a generation ahead of Canon or Nikon or (now) Sony, would be right up RED's alley... and a very welcome piece of gear!

Like I always say, these are exciting times...

Steve,

I am not disagreeing with the steepness of an $8K DSLR, I am disagreeing with the fact that they cannot be upgraded. My PC cost a bundle, but I can always throw in a new motherboard, chip, video card, RAM, Bluray, monitor, etc. I'm disagreeing with not being able to upgrade the sensor or processors when you are dropping $8K on a DSLR. Some may disagree, but that's my opinion.

I never compared an XSI to a 1D-line camera. Never would. We were talking about XSI vs 40D.

BTW, just speaking generally, for those who make a habit out of dissing Canon EF-S 350/400/450D line cameras, keep in mind that 90% of top astrophotographers around the world still rock the legendary 350D. :) Also keep in mind that this is the size and format of the Red One sensor.

I agree with you: these are exciting times! In fact, this week has been particularly exciting with all the new Canon rumors, Red DSLR killer, etc.

[Jason Ing]

New Canon rumors?

[Tom Lowe]

New Canon rumors?


"I've been told that Canon has a new "miracle sensor" coming that has the ability to sense the proper ISO needed for several "zones" within a photo at once. IE, the bright sky will get ISO 50, while the shaded area under the brim of a person's hat may get ISO 400....all automatically to allow the entire image to be correctly exposed. Something similar to in-camera, one-frame only HDR results.

This tip was free...so take it for what you paid for it!"


http://www.canonrumors.com :)

[Jon Howe]

Oh shiz.... it's ON! You guys rock!

[ThydNostrum]

I will feel a lot better if Jim concentrate on RED ONE and make it a functional product with all necessary accessaries, work flow software, owners manual etc. By keep announcing new products every week, his attention will be divided and nothing will ever get done.
Introducing a new DSLR is futile. Canon and Sony and Nikon have that market cornered. Nobody is going to dislodge them.

[GuyB]

...
1. Have the best sensor program.
...
Jim

1: Hate to rain on the parade here but I havn't seen anything from Red to rival the sensor in the D3/D700 for a DSLR. For a start its much bigger than anything Red (full 35mm, not Super35 etc) have made or announced to date and the quality is simply stunning, not to mention the low noise high ISO abilities. The way I see it is Red is lucky Nikon didn't put a HD-SDI output of the D3 because it could be a better video camera than RED1 for 1080p...

If you follow the DSLR forums you'll notice over an over to most pro's, they arn't all that interesting in resolution anymore. Few need (or want) more than the 12MP & we have and shoot in lossless compressed RAW. We don't need RedCode in a DLSR because we have a pure RAW. We don't need 100fps in DSLRs, few really need more than 5fps. Who wants to deal with all those frames anway, not photographers. We want more dynamic range though...

If you want to send a rocker up the photographic market go after a full size sensor medium format system with current DSLR prices.

We'll see what happens but I am no where near as excited by this camera as I was by RED1.

Just expressing my thoughts, I'll be happy to be prooven wrong.

[Michael Schrengohst]

1: Hate to rain on the parade here but I havn't seen anything from Red to rival the sensor in the D3/D700 for a DSLR. For a start its much bigger than anything Red (full 35mm, not Super35 etc) have made or announced to date and the quality is simply stunning, not to mention the low noise high ISO abilities. The way I see it is Red is lucky Nikon didn't put a HD-SDI output of the D3 because it could be a better video camera than RED1 for 1080p...

If you follow the DSLR forums you'll notice over an over to most pro's, they arn't all that interesting in resolution anymore. Few need (or want) more than the 12MP & we have and shoot in lossless compressed RAW. We don't need RedCode in a DLSR because we have a pure RAW. We don't need 100fps in DSLRs, few really need more than 5fps. Who wants to deal with all those frames anway, not photographers. We want more dynamic range though...

If you want to send a rocker up the photographic market go after a full size sensor medium format system with current DSLR prices.

We'll see what happens but I am no where near as excited by this camera as I was by RED1.

Just expressing my thoughts, I'll be happy to be prooven wrong.

Heh, Heh - if that does not get Jim fired up.....
I have a Nikon D200 - I love shooting timelapses with it.
I have rented RED for some shoots and love the quality.
Since I already deal with still frame sequences I took that knowledge
with me when I started editing RED footage. I would love to know
if the upcoming Scarlet/RED DSLR will have time-lapse capabilities?
I am sure it will. Long exposure times are a must.
I have the D90 on order. I am getting it mainly as a backup and 2nd to the D200.
Many times while shooting timelapses I wished I had
a 2nd to do a different angle. I consider the video in the D90 to be a toy
but know I can leave the DV camera at home.

[Jannard]

I will feel a lot better if Jim concentrate on RED ONE and make it a functional product with all necessary accessaries, work flow software, owners manual etc. By keep announcing new products every week, his attention will be divided and nothing will ever get done.
Introducing a new DSLR is futile. Canon and Sony and Nikon have that market cornered. Nobody is going to dislodge them.

Want to bet?

Jim

[Tom Lowe]

Want to bet?

Jim

As we know already, these two-bit Nostradamus wannabes will flee for the hills as soon as money is put on the table.

[Jannard]

1: Hate to rain on the parade here but I havn't seen anything from Red to rival the sensor in the D3/D700 for a DSLR. For a start its much bigger than anything Red (full 35mm, not Super35 etc) have made or announced to date and the quality is simply stunning, not to mention the low noise high ISO abilities. The way I see it is Red is lucky Nikon didn't put a HD-SDI output of the D3 because it could be a better video camera than RED1 for 1080p...

If you follow the DSLR forums you'll notice over an over to most pro's, they arn't all that interesting in resolution anymore. Few need (or want) more than the 12MP & we have and shoot in lossless compressed RAW. We don't need RedCode in a DLSR because we have a pure RAW. We don't need 100fps in DSLRs, few really need more than 5fps. Who wants to deal with all those frames anway, not photographers. We want more dynamic range though...

If you want to send a rocker up the photographic market go after a full size sensor medium format system with current DSLR prices.

We'll see what happens but I am no where near as excited by this camera as I was by RED1.

Just expressing my thoughts, I'll be happy to be prooven wrong.

Sorry to disagree with you. And the RED ONE sensor does not represent RED's sensor program today. That was just our 1st try... two years ago. What are you trying to accomplish? Answer that question, then compare sensor programs. Trust me when I tell you that no one has a program in place like ours. Now... camera building is another matter and more subject to debate.

Also... what would you do with a D3 with HD-SDI out? Time-lapse?

Jim

[Jannard]

I will also say that or DSMC is the most beautiful thing we have done. Maybe the "most desirable object in the world". :-)

Jim

[Photogeek]

Thank you for opening up this discussion as it has been a topic I like to discuss amongst fellow photographers.
We release a podcast once a week (normally) and the emerging requirement for existing press photographers to shoot video is becoming apparent.
The need for stills is now more prevalent amongst video and cinema guys as well.
The problem has been having these guys conceive of a device that will do both jobs. Their problem is one of ergonomics for different jobs.
From video or cinema the requirement to be shooting for an extended time on a tripod or shoulder mount and from stills photographers, the ability to be very portable.
What I hope is that RED will solve these problems as well as provide better imaging in the process.
We at photogeek.tv salute the efforts and look forward to the outcome.

[Jannard]

What I hope is that RED will solve these problems as well as provide better imaging in the process.


We did... :-)

Jim

[Steve Freebairn]

I will also say that or DSMC is the most beautiful thing we have done. Maybe the "most desirable object in the world". :-)

Jim

Jim, please don't forget to make the Epic #2 :) Seriously, I'd love to have some teases about what Epic will do/accomplish. I love our RED One, it's opened more doors than you can imagine. I've been talking up the Epic like there's no tomorrow, I'm excited by the DSMC, but I really want scarlet and Epic to kick butt and take even more names.

[Tom Lowe]

Epic is #2. Don't worry.

[konozulu]

I think that when the leader of most companies talk it can be taken with a grain of salt. Jim Jannard's history and his products speak for themselves. I was going to buy a D3 this weekend to add to my D300. I have decided after reading all this today NOT to do that. I can wait. I know the product will be what he says it is. Can I get a free pair of Oakleys with mine please!! :) The only bad part is the 12 months of drooling, waiting from when I see the specs till I can buy it.

[GuyB]

...

Also... what would you do with a D3 with HD-SDI out? Time-lapse?

Jim

ah, maybe just capture it uncompressed 10bit to a FlashXDR.

What are you going to do with a 4MP blurry motion frame from a video camera, oversharpen and print 6x4?

I have still to see a camera concept from RED which comes close to my needs and I am afraid I am not holding my breath for this DSLR either.

You have great products for specific types of shooters, but there is a huge market that has no interest in these products.

RED/EPIC etc, not going to shoot a concert or wedding with that...
Scarlet, sorry, no way, why would I want to shoot a concert with a camera that I have seen to date. I don't need REDRAW for a wedding, concert etc Dealing with 25 or 35Mbps data is bad enough for storage/achiving. There is a reason a rifle is more accurate than a pistol, smaller isn't always better (and its a big reason why consumer footage is always so shakey, the cameras are too small...)

None of these cameras suites covering special event productions, stage productions or sports etc

I am not going to get caught up in the hype & marketing of an 'announcement' with absolutely no details at all. Nothing from Red to date suites my needs, why would I suddenly think the next one will based on a forum post about a 'killer' product but no actual information?

I'll keep an open mind for sure, but its not like the road travelled so far is gold lined so I am not counting those chickens before they hatch.

[Ash Bolland]

Radness.

[Paul Lee]

Chiming in late as I'm on location, and pardon my French, but F*ck Yea!

Bring on the ever-lasting-frame-stopper!!!

[Harrison Diamond]

I think that when the leader of most companies talk it can be taken with a grain of salt. Jim Jannard's history and his products speak for themselves. I was going to buy a D3 this weekend to add to my D300. I have decided after reading all this today NOT to do that. I can wait. I know the product will be what he says it is. Can I get a free pair of Oakleys with mine please!! :) The only bad part is the 12 months of drooling, waiting from when I see the specs till I can buy it.

Well, IMHO the D3/D700 are better cameras than the DSMC for at least the next 12 months or so... seeing as you can't take photos with the DSMC until you get one!

If I were you I'd dump the D300 or buy a D700. Or just buy the D3. It's a damn nice camera. I'm preparing to sell my D300 to get a D700, even with my plans to eventually move to DSMC if it meets my needs.

[Jason Ing]

We did... :-)

Jim

Hmmm... interesting that you didn't say "We will..."

You spoke in the past and not future tense.

I bet you already have the DSMC, don't you?

But you scheduled it for a late 2009 launch just so you can have a 12 month extension of your favorite past time of teasing us.

:)

[Jannard]

Just so you know, I own a D3 and a 1Ds MKIII...

Jim

[Bruce Allen]

Jim, since you're talking about "killing the DSLR", I guess you mean by that you're going to have make something that is not a DSLR?

Maybe a 1080p EVF instead of a mirror & pentaprism setup? Still interchangeable lens, but not a SLR... and also enables a different form factor and more of a clean slate design? Obvious advantages (and disadvantages) of course...

Very interested to see if you guys allow existing lenses or go for something new - Micro 4/3rds-style, etc. Maybe PL mount? And also if it'll be full 35mm size, or crop.

Well, very cool. Thanks for giving me something to be a fanboy about instead of complaining about closed codecs ;)

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[GuyB]

Just so you know, I own a D3 and a 1Ds MKIII...

Jim

Do you work as a professional photographer so you actually understand how these tools work in a real world photographic environment or are they just big boy toys for you?

I'm not having a go at you, I have no idea what your photographic experience is but just owning such toys means nothing. Lots of rich people own supercars but that makes them no more qualified to design a race car, or even drive that supercar they own into anything but a tree!

[Andrew Benz]

Sorry, you obviously know nothing of this man's background and his life's passions.

These hater posts are so circa 2006... I see a pattern.


Do you work as a professional photographer so you actually understand how these tools work in a real world photographic environment or are they just big boy toys for you?

I'm not having a go at you, I have no idea what your photographic experience is but just owning such toys means nothing. Lots of rich people own supercars but that makes them no more qualified to design a race car, or even drive that supercar they own into anything but a tree!

[Tom Lowe]

What's with all these fuckin trolls today?

Who else would like to see an IP match against the c.com membership IP list? I guarantee we will find some matches.

[Jason Ing]

Do you work as a professional photographer so you actually understand how these tools work in a real world photographic environment or are they just big boy toys for you?

I'm not having a go at you, I have no idea what your photographic experience is but just owning such toys means nothing. Lots of rich people own supercars but that makes them no more qualified to design a race car, or even drive that supercar they own into anything but a tree!

That's just dumb logic.

Compared to a David Mullen, Jim isn't a "professional" cinematographer, but Jim made the Red One that David is using, among many other pros.

[GuyB]

You can take your troll accusation and shove it where it deserves to go. If you can't accept a bit of healthy debate and discussion go home to mommy. Not every one is a blind fanboy, some of us have a mind of our own we choose to actively use.

I clearly said I don't know his photographic background, thats why i ASKED! Its not exactly clearly published. It's a pretty simple discussion to follow, try to keep up.

[Deanan]

Do you work as a professional photographer so you actually understand how these tools work in a real world photographic environment or are they just big boy toys for you?

I'm not having a go at you, I have no idea what your photographic experience is but just owning such toys means nothing. Lots of rich people own supercars but that makes them no more qualified to design a race car, or even drive that supercar they own into anything but a tree!


I don't want to speak out of turn for Jim... but yes he is a professional photographer better than many, has a killer, dead nuts on eye, and kicks ass in photoshop.

(fyi, I'm not kissing ass... anyone who knows Jim, knows this to be true)

[GuyB]

That's just dumb logic.

Compared to a David Mullen, Jim isn't a "professional" cinematographer, but Jim made the Red One that David is using, among many other pros.

And engineers make cars, drivers only consult. But I believe my analogue is pretty easy to understand the point being made. You don't have to be the best in the world at a job to make a great tool for that job, but you have to have a decent working knowledge and experience of the job.

This is the camera Jim should be looking at slaughtering
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0809/08091002leaf_afiII_aptus_10_7_6.asp

Its the type of equipment most photographers would love to own but could never afford to buy. Its no different with where RED came in to video production, I guarrantee RED has had absolutely NO impact on the sames of cameras like the EX1 etc DSLR bodies arn't expensive and there is little discontention in that market by end users.

[GuyB]

I don't want to speak out of turn for Jim... but yes he is a professional photographer better than many, has a killer, dead nuts on eye, and can kick ass in photoshop.

(fyi, I'm not kissing ass... anyone who knows Jim, knows this to be true)

Thank you for a real response.

[James T Mather]

Originally Posted by GuyB

my analogue is pretty easy to understand

I hope your analogue has an analogy.

[Stephen Williams]

What's with all these fuckin trolls today?

Who else would like to see an IP match against the c.com membership IP list? I guarantee we will find some matches.

Hi Tom,

Over 50% till now? I doub't it.

Stephen

[Stephen Williams]

Want to bet?

Jim

Hi Jim,

What time scale do you have in mind for Red to sell 51% of DSLR's worldwide?

Stephen

[Tony Lorentzen]

I own over 1000 cameras.

Holy shit, Jim. You should open up a museum - seriously... I'd love to see some of those older cameras :blink:

[Jannard]

I seem to have an obsession... :-) One of 10 personality disorders... but who is counting?

Jim

[Pawel Achtel]

If we answer one question... we'll need to answer more. We believe it marks the end of DSLRs. That's all we can say right now.

Jim

I think you answered enough, Jim. I can smell another scam here :biggrin:

Is this the right place and time to offer all my brand-spanking new DSLR gear for sale? Cheap! Any offers accepted. Payment should be sent directly to RED as a deposit for my DSMC :clown2:

[Yannick Hagman]

Anybody knows where on Oakley I can find Jim's commercial? I'd like to see this one.

[Jannard]

http://oakley.com/innovation/history

Early 1990's. Shot on Arri.

Jim

[Yannick Hagman]

Thank you. Looks great. Especially the one with the suite.

[Ahmad Muswanto]

BTW, my collection includes about every format you can think of up to 8x10. .......

I bet you not just own and use them. you might be dissect half of those collection, abuse them to their limit.

Now i have the reason not to buy D90. I'll stick with my D40 and old minolta srt. I'll wait jim prophecy

Maybe i should stop smoking...

[Jason Ing]

You can take your troll accusation and shove it where it deserves to go. If you can't accept a bit of healthy debate and discussion go home to mommy. Not every one is a blind fanboy, some of us have a mind of our own we choose to actively use.

I clearly said I don't know his photographic background, thats why i ASKED! Its not exactly clearly published. It's a pretty simple discussion to follow, try to keep up.

Don't try to play innocent and say you just "asked" a question. You said a lot of other things as well. So if it's such a simple discussion to follow, why can't you follow your own conversation?

You could have just simply asked, "Hey, Jim, have you done any professional photography?"

And you'd get your answer. And without all the crap that followed. Wow. Imagine that.

[Casey Green]

I seem to have an obsession... :-) One of 10 personality disorders... but who is counting?

Jim

An admirable trait.

Along with being obsessive, and a perfectionist, I have trouble reading at normal speeds and have "slight issues" with brain wave activity.

When I achieve my goals and step up to your level, I would love to have you over for dinner. White or Red? Lemme guess... :)

[GuyB]

hehe... I shot every Oakley ad for over 20 years. Also the Oakley commercial that can be seen on the Oakley website. I own over 1000 cameras. So maybe we had better hear your qualifications?

BTW, my collection includes about every format you can think of up to 8x10. 3D, Arri's, Leicas (including Oscar Barmak's original cameras), Hasselblad (every model including moon cameras), Fuji 6x17, Linhof, Alpa, Nikon rangefinder (actually, every Nikon ever made), Minolta, Contax (German and Japanese), Bolex, Rollei, Mamiya, Canon from the beginning, Photosonics, Sinar, Olympus, Pentax, Mitchell, Sony 950, Panasonic Varicam... you get the idea. I have shot almost every one of them.

My qualifications for the camera industry include a passion that is unmatched (as far as I can see) for over 35 years. So much for my qualifications...

Jim

Thanks Jim, but Deanan's short answer was more than adequte to state that you know how a professional photographer works. Not everyone knows your life storey and I didn't see anything wrong with asking. I am sure if I made such bold statements as you are people would question my experience. Oh wait, you already did and I didn't even make any claims, see what I mean...

My experience is not really relevant as I am not the one making claims of the death of a mainstream professional industry strandard tool without providing any actual information, but all I think you need to know is that I shoot special event video and photography proffessionaly on a regular basis so I know what tools I want and I know when I see a tool that isn't what I need.

I remember when Red was first announced in similar way, wow, it seemed great, I got all excited, for sure I would get one as my next camera. Then details started flowing and the product came out and it is absolutely nothing like anything I need in any way, it is totally the opposite of being the best tool for my video production requirements but is pretty awsome at what it does, so perhaps you might forgive me if I just wait until I see something of what this unit is going to be before I get all excited like some of the fan boys around here. Once burnt, twice shy. I'll sing your praises high enough based on real information, not speculation.

Cheers

Guy

[fde101]

Want to bet?


Sure.

I agree -- introducing a new DSLR is futile.

That *is* why RED is skipping that stage and doing something else, right?


Except I do hope it still has an Optical viewfinder, otherwise I likely won't even consider it myself...

Not for stills anyway. EVF is fine for movie/video/digicine work, but I hate the idea of an EVF as the primary viewport for still photography.

[GuyB]

Don't try to play innocent and say you just "asked" a question. You said a lot of other things as well. So if it's such a simple discussion to follow, why can't you follow your own conversation?

You could have just simply asked, "Hey, Jim, have you done any professional photography?"

And you'd get your answer. And without all the crap that followed. Wow. Imagine that.

Who's playing 'innocent', not me, my posts are there to read as written (other than an edit for a typo or spelling), I was following my thread until you lot took it sideways...

1: I did just ask the question

2: Tom is the one that that added all the crap that followed and you are perpetuating it.

I havn't edited any of my posts so I stand by everything I have said as completely above board and appropriate. Not everyone who doesn't just waste bandwith blowing sunshine up someones posteriour is a troll you know. Some people have real questions.

The only 'stories' of Jim's backgound I had heard was he just had a interest in video production and wanted to stick it to the man because of the hugely inflated prices of Pro video gear. I had never heard anything about him working in photography. Of course I knew I didn't have all the info so I asked, but just a statement that he owned a few pro cameras didn't tell me anything, heck, I know a few Doctors that own D3s etc that wouldn't know how to use them out of P mode, they only own them because the can. You could shoot all the movies in Hollywood and still not know how a professional photographer works in the field (and there are many fields too).

You can take my post as genuine or not, it really doesn't matter to me.

[Meryem Ersoz]

My experience is not really relevant as I am not the one making claims of the death of a mainstream professional industry strandard tool without providing any actual information, but all I think you need to know is that I shoot special event video and photography proffessionaly on a regular basis so I know what tools I want and I know when I see a tool that isn't what I need.

I remember when Red was first announced in similar way, wow, it seemed great, I got all excited, for sure I would get one as my next camera. Then details started flowing and the product came out and it is absolutely nothing like anything I need in any way, it is totally the opposite of being the best tool for my video production requirements

Yawn...I thought this species was extinct...it's like sighting a coelacanth, only decidedly less remarkable...not as pretty as the coelacanth, either...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/185000/images/_185239_dinowide.jpg

Jim, is the change in EPIC in any way related to the development of this new camera?

Just fishing for clues, to beat the metaphor a little further...

[dalen johnson]

Canon and Sony and Nikon have that market cornered. Nobody is going to dislodge them.

Dont know, reminds me to much of American politics.
You are led to believe that there is a difference in the 'parties', (i.e. Dems/Repubs, etc.) but at heart its much of the same.

Same with the DSLR market.
Sony is God over it, even though it looks like Canon rules the roost.
After all, there is always that one feature which would have made the leap over all the other cameras which gets left out.

What one camera doesnt have, (and could easily have had), the other has.
Much like Sonys low end DSLR market where they give you 3 cameras around the same price, but missing functionality here and there.

The above applies to Canon, Nikon and Sony as a whole.
This one misses that, but another one, priced a bit higher has what the other brand didnt, and so forth.

No one is going anywhere and with them the market is stuck.

From how I understand it, Sony supplies the 'big' canon lord of DSLRs with chips for the canon video cameras. Something most DSLR owners appear not to know as they think Sony is about 'games' only.

Also, Sony give Nikon chips for the DSLRs.
Yes, you may say Nikon designs and Sony makes.
You would think after years of doing that they would have a clue of how to make their own chips work as good if not better than Nikon.

So Sony feeds into Canon (albeit on the video side, which is more hidden to those who worship Canon) and then Nikon on the photography side.

No matter how the fine details all connect, the point is simple.
Neither company has the incentive or reason to blow the other out of the water.

Neither of the 3 companies - Sony, Canon, Nikon, will ever wipe one or the other off the face of the map, as they are to close in business as it is.
Its more like the political landscape of America, as pointed out in the beginning of the post.

Now here comes RED.
So far everything they have been about and shown is pretty progressive.
Reminds me of Apple and what they used to stand for...quality and progressive technology.

Now its not as progressive...(would take time to explain where Im coming from), and the quality control issues are really obvious when you watch the history of some of their products...as a former Apple fan boy I missed a lot of this, but that is because it takes time with a product to see its trends.

Dont get me wrong, I still own Apple and plan to upgrade soon to a new system if they can work out certain quarks with Nvidia and the laptop screen issues, etc. ;)
Outwardly they represent change...still pretty objects, though going from metal to the cracking iphone plastic...well...
reminds me of Obamas call for change and then he hires an insider as V.P.

Point is, all of this - from politics to products we buy, represent where we are as a collective mass...or rather where our collective thinking is.

We are on the verge of greatness in this world. (look at the cooperation it took to get CERN up and running), but we still have the sillyness which holds us back. (Look at the Russia, Georgia, U.S. bit.) And on a lower scale what corporations do...leak out technology to make sure they have something to sale you years down the road.

Its an old model and an old way of thinking.

I have said a bit, and a lot would need more of an explanation as words are really easy to misunderstand as we interpret it through our mental grid system which was built up by our surrounding milieu. ;)

But here is to RED...the concept is great...they have the momentum...will they stay on top and continue what they started? Or will they become the superficial change which is sweet on the outside, but starts tearing down and breaking form the cheaper parts they use?

As of now, its looking good. So I cant wait to see Scarlet and this new DSLR.

My apologies for my long bit of babbling. ;)

Peace

dAlen