Complaints about the iPhone

[Justin Anderson]

Why isn't it compatible with the Verizon network!?!! Does apple have any idea how many potential buyers they're losing!!
I don't care what kind of a deal or support Cingular gave, find the extra funds to break off from them and bring the phone to a wider market!!!


:mad: :mad: :mad:

:cool:

[Blaine Golden]

EXACTLY!! :mad:

[Don Woods]

No it is Verison. Verison use's an old technolagy on much of there network. They us CDMA.. or a veryation of that. The Iphone use GSM. Witch is the most used world wide standered. Cingular/Tmobel and AT&T which Cingular just built. Give it a year or two and they will have a CDMA version out.

[Blaine Golden]

Give it a year or two and they will have a CDMA version out.Do you know how long that is in Technology Years? :eek:

[Don Woods]

Well I just watched the keynote and the Cingular guy says they have a multi year exclusivity contract so u might just have to switch like I am. You have to look at it from apples point of view. They say the want to go to Europe and ASIA by the end of the year. Both of those conturys are all GSM. So build a phone that you don't have to change the tech.. Makes sence

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Contrary to popular belief, GSM is not superior to CDMA nor is it really a newer technology. It's just a different variation on the same concept. GSM uses a different signal carrier model and doesn't work quite as well over rugged terrain, nor does it have quite the range that CDMA does. CDMA also provides superior bandwidth and data rates per node connection. GSM is superior in other ways though -- better signal penetration through structures / buildings, better node tracking and switching and greater vertical range so it works better when used from an airplane. Something to consider if/when the FAA and other airspace governing agencies start allowing phone use during flight.

Anyway, all that aside, GSM is the dominant standard the world over. And this really has nothing to do with it being technically superior, it's mostly to do with the implementation of SIM cards and device management used by the major GSM carriers when they first started up. In Europe and Asia, most phones are sold as unlocked and you simply contact your desired carrier and buy a plan, they give you a SIM card, you activate your phone and you're ready to go. Here in teh USA, most phones are tied up with providers and nasty long contracts. CDMA accounts for about half of the wireless network infrastructure and also accounts for nearly half of the wireless phone users/devices out there. Verizon and Sprint are CDMA and that' pretty much does it for the USA as far as CDMA goes. Everyone else is GSM except I think Cricket is CDMA, but not sure. Nextel is iDEN still, but is integrating CDMA since the merger with Sprint. There is currently more CMDA infrastructure converage in the USA and if anyone travels cross country over the roads, a CDMA phone actually makes most sense in most areas, especially throughout the southwest.

Anyway, all that aside, Apple made the right choice with GSM. They have to have GSM to make the iPhone a global product and reach the largest markets. A CDMA version is a no-brainer once the exclusive Cingular deal runs out and if the iPhone proves to be a success. However, there's a good chance that unless the iPhone becomes a huge runaway success that everyone must have it, Verizon won't want to carry it anyway. It goes against their current business model of installing their own interface and crap software on all the phones they offer (with the exception of a few PDA/smartphone models). They also want everyone to use their VCast service for music and video downloads and wouldn't want iTunes in the mix. Personally I don't care for Verizon and I'd drop them for Cingular or someone else in and instant if I could get equal coverage where I need it.

[Rob Lohman]

Yep, GSM here in Holland. I'm on t-mobile when I'm in the US, guess they're on GSM as well (since I use the same phone).

I was surprised to see a deal with just one provider. Then again, I have no idea how much of the US can use that network... In the end it's all about coverage.

[Carlo Rho]

Hey there, sorry but Europe was GSM... the latest network is UMTS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UMTS) that speak in Mb and not in Kb as GSM. So IPhone is today able to work in a network considered quite old in European Community... I hope this is the reason to wait Q4 to see that jewel here.
Ex. Vendors & Telcos are pushing videocalls a lot so I think Apple needs a second front camera to compete in Europe as they need UMTS network to sell music & videos...
Nokia & almost all vendors have only 3G (aka thrid generation aka UMTS) new products for europe. GSM is used just for cheap phones.
Yesterday I was dreaming to buy my own I phone @ NAB but then I start reading threads...so sad...
Carlo

[Nick Shaw]

The latest thing in the UK is HSDPA (somrtimes called 3.5G). Very limited coverage at the moment, but theoretically broadband speeds on a mobile. I have a Motorola V6 Maxx which has it, but I haven't taken it into the centre of London to get HSDPA reception and try it out! Still by Q4 this year when the iPhone hits Europe maybe we'll be on at least v2 of the iPhone, and we'll have to see what that offers.

Nick

[Red Oz]

I'm wondering whether an unlocked version will be released when it hits Europe and Asia, or if someone will unlock it anyway. Then those who aren't on Cingular can still purchase one. I've had and used unlocked phones for some time now, and always hated Sprint and Verizon for not offering GSM/SIM cards (although I hear Sprint is going to convert over soon).

There was an article in Wired magazine that showed Cingular had the largest network in the US. Not sure if this is true now, but that might be a good reason to switch if you were also eyeing the Apple Phone.

Marlon, that's a good point. Perhaps a future version will include UMTS support.

[Tom Lowe]

Well most of my friends, coworkers and family are on Verizon. I get to call them for free anytime. BTW, does the iPhone do video? Why would I want an iPhone instead of like a Blackberry or something? I'm actually in the market for something like this now. How do you type text messages, etc, with the iPhone?

[Häakon]

Does the iPhone do video? Why would I want an iPhone instead of like a Blackberry or something? I'm actually in the market for something like this now. How do you type text messages, etc, with the iPhone?

There's a lot of information and some nice Quicktime animations at http://www.apple.com/iphone/, or if you really want to see in-depth how it all works, you can watch the mammoth 2 hour keynote speech with all kinds of demos at http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/keynote/. They actually compare it to several smart phones (a blackberry included) in the keynote.

[Vincent Rice]

The Cingular deal was extremely important politically. No carrier really wants Apple in the market and you will notice that there will be no downloading of tunes, ringtones, or video over the network, not that anyone in their right mind would want to.

How Apple handle it in Europe and Asia should be extremely interesting. I assume they will need the exclusive support of somebody for the initial launch period. It is is indeed a shame for the consumer but Apple would not have gone this route unless entirely necessary.

This is a long-term play on Apple's part however and there is sure to be many iPhone variants on the drawing board and an Apple 'network' (with Google?) in the not to distant future.

[Tom Lowe]

you can watch the mammoth 2 hour keynote speech with all kinds of demos at http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/keynote/.

Why don't they offer this in HD? cheapskates!

[Sanjin Jukic]

It sucks from the beginning. Pitty.
According to Engadget, the iPhone is not open to 3rd party development at this time. Only Apple is providing (built-in) applications for the device.
http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/the-iphone-is-not-a-smartphone/

[CVB]

Well, that certainly didn't take long ...
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9007798&source=NLT_BNA&nlid=1

[Don Woods]

Yeah Curt I saw that on drudge. Thought the same thing damn that was quick.

[Blaine Golden]

And now Cisco Systems is sueing Apple over the use of the name iPhone, saying they introduced theirs three weeks ago.

[Joe Carney]

I keep hoping WiMax will finally roll out and make all these comparison pointless.

[Pol Turrents]

the lack of 3G for the europeans is very upseting. I'm just changing from GSM to 3G, and the system works pretty well, at least here in spain.
Well, they have a few months ahead to add support....

meanwhile we can do our own Iphone:
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/cellphones/apple-iphone-papercraft-model-227902.php

[Paul Coleman]

...and an Apple 'network' (with Google?) in the not too distant future.

That's what I'm talkinbout! :D

[Sanjin Jukic]

Commentary: A discussion on the iPhone
http://www.treocentral.com/content/Stories/1047-1.htm

iPhone: What's inside? Not Intel
http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2007/1/10/6569

[Júlio Taubkin]

I don't understand. Isn't it possible for an europpean costumer to buy a device from the apple store and just replace the sim with her older europpean one so she could start using iPhone this year?

[Rob Lohman]

No doubt the device is locked to the SIM or to a certain network. That's quite easy to do. It's probably also hackable, but that would void warranty no doubt.

[Júlio Taubkin]

Really? How bizare. In Brazil GSM phones can be used with any sim you can find. That was actually the main feature that made people adopt them. It's not unusual for somebody with a broken phone to borrough an old one from a friend and just change chips. Anyway... If someone would do that, she would have to deal with the 2-year cyngular contract anyways...

[Sanjin Jukic]

Some Hands-On Time With the iPhone by David Pogue
http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/01/09/some-hands-on-time-with-the-iphone/

[Martin Drew]

Its a great product but in typical Apple style deliberately hamstrung by the limited 3rd party development opportunities. It needs to be 3G for a decent web experience too, unless you are just going to use WiFi for web. And whats that with the no Flash support?

Having said all that:
1. it is not out yet and some of this may well change.
2. I still want one anyway.

I want more than 8Gb too, that's just not enough.

Martin

[Vincent Rice]

Its a great product but in typical Apple style deliberately hamstrung by the limited 3rd party development opportunities. It needs to be G3 for a decent web experience too, unless you are just going to use WiFi for web. And whats that with the no Flash support?

Having said all that:
1. it is not out yet and some of this may well change.
2. I still want one anyway.

I want more than 8Gb too, that's just not enough.

Martin

Its not 'hamstrung', its managed. Its a phone that has to work, not a general purpose computer. 3rd Parties will develop for it but they need to through Apple, exactly the same as the iPod.

G3 is coming... its not exactly been a roaring success yet has it?. Most of the world are still building out EDGE networks.

Flash is probably too much for the processor at this point.. who knows? I doubt it was left out to spite all Flash fans (personally Flash is the worst bloody thing to ever happen to the web)

Undoubtedly larger storage options will be coming.

[Jason Ramsey]

I'm not into the techno of cell phones, but I think I read recently that it is LEGAL to unlock phones to make them useable on other networks. A law recently passed, I think. I don't know if that has any benefit for this phone or not.

What I do know is that, in my location, I get reception in areas with Cingular that no one else does. My house for example. My parents house for another.

I don't really care about the iPhone though. It looks cool. I have never bought a phone. I just take the free ones that they give me when I sign up or renew my contract.

Cingular isn't so good for cali folks though. I don't think there is great reception on the western half of the states. I did drive from Alabama to LA and back this past summer. My cingular phone had reception the entire time and never said roaming.
Later,
Jason

[Martin Drew]

Its not 'hamstrung', its managed. Its a phone that has to work, not a general purpose computer. 3rd Parties will develop for it but they need to through Apple, exactly the same as the iPod.

G3 is coming... its not exactly been a roaring success yet has it?. Most of the world are still building out EDGE networks.

Flash is probably too much for the processor at this point.. who knows? I doubt it was left out to spite all Flash fans (personally Flash is the worst bloody thing to ever happen to the web)

Undoubtedly larger storage options will be coming.

Now don't get me wrong vinney57. I love apple products, I have been using a Mac professionally since 1989. I love what Apple did with the mp3 market when they released the iPod (I had a 1st gen iPod and I have a latest gen 80Gb iPod now) and as I said I think the iPhone is a great product. But Apple do hamstring all their products, they are not alone in this, but that doesn't make it any the less irritating.

The fact that it is not open to all 3rd party developers is a huge disappointment because it means it won't get specialist apps. I believe the reason Apple are doing this has less to do with managing the phone experience and more to do with managing the iPhone market and their partners interest. Why can't they just enforce strict development requirements.

The whole point of the iPhone is that it isn't just a phone, thats what makes it exciting. Sure it isn't a general purpose computer, but it isn't just a phone either.

I wrote G3 but did of course mean 3G (I have corrected it in my previous post now). 3G hasn't been a roaring success... sure... but why? No compelling applications. Safari on iPhone is a compelling application. Try downloading a rich content web page on GSM.... not so compelling.

Whichever processor they are using, it could eat Flash for breakfast, just look at the other stuff they are doing on the iPhone, there is no shortage of power there. I don't know why Flash and Java have been left out, maybe it is to prevent people developing apps for the iPhone. I am hoping this is just a temporary thing though maybe it will support Flash by June. Whether you like or dislike Flash on the Web is immaterial it has become a standard so lack of Flash support means lots of broken sites.

Martin

[Gavin Greenwalt]

Let's see... I'm paying more for a product that:
- Can't get on any of the new highspeed cell connections
- Can't run 3rd party apps
- Can only play limited codecs
- Has no handwriting recognition
- Is exclusive to a network I'm not on
...

I could go on, but I really don't care. It's a shame though, because the things it does, it does pretty well... they just... in classic apple form decided to create something which looks sweet but is crippled unless you do what apple wants you to do.

"What you want the latest intel processor now? ... uhh how about in 5 months!"

"Awesome! Thank you apple for giving us a sweet product 5 months after it's been available to the general public. I love waiting for you to tell me when it's time for me to upgrade."

[Brook Willard]

Notable quote:


“We define everything that is on the phone,” Jobs told the New York Times. “You don’t want your phone to be like a PC. The last thing you want is to have loaded three apps on your phone and then you go to make a call and it doesn’t work anymore. These are more like iPods than they are like computers.” Jobs told Newsweek something similar. “You don’t want your phone to be an open platform,” he said. “You need it to work when you need it to work. Cingular doesn’t want to see their West Coast network go down because some application messed up.”

“These are devices that need to work, and you can’t do that if you load any software on them,” Jobs continued. “That doesn’t mean there’s not going to be software to buy that you can load on them coming from us. It doesn’t mean we have to write it all, but it means it has to be more of a controlled environment.”

[Thomas Mathai]

OS X uses Inkwell so I don't see why you can't use it on the iPhone.

Time magazine talked about the iPhone, they say that Jobs convinced Cingular to change their system to handle the listing of voice mail and other features.

In fact, they say that Apple is the first company to get a wireless telco to agree to their demands instead of the other way around.

Personally I want everything except the phone part. I like keeping my phone in my pocket, and this doesn't seem designed for that.

I can't wait for the iPod minus phone that looks the same and has the 60 Gig drive, but with the WiFi and bluetooth.

[Sanjin Jukic]

Optimised OS X sits on 'versatile' flash, OS X weighs in at less than half a gig, thanks to expertise of Apple team.
http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipod-itunes/news/index.cfm?newsid=16927

[Nick Shaw]

I can't wait for the iPod minus phone that looks the same and has the 60 Gig drive, but with the WiFi and bluetooth.

I'll second that. Convergence of devices can be useful, but sometimes a phone should be just a phone. The convergence of an iPod and a PDA makes more sense.

Nick

[Aaron Marshall]

Here's what I think about iPhone:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=1xXNoB3t8vM

"It's everything. It's also a hard to use cell phone." hahaha

[Jared VanLeuven]

I'll second that. Convergence of devices can be useful, but sometimes a phone should be just a phone. The convergence of an iPod and a PDA makes more sense.

Nick

And with WiFi, you could (potentially) create a VOIP app that would bypass all of this nonsense. I wait for that day, the day all of that lot (Verizon, TMob, Cingu///AT&T, etc) go quietly into that good night. They've had their predatory day in the sun.