ASSIMILATE / Adobe team up...

[Lucas Wilson]

http://www.studiodaily.com/main/technique/craft/9897.html

Just fyi for the REDUSER crew. ;)

Over the next few months, you'll see a lot of exciting stuff tied to this announcement. We are extremely excited by what we've seen and done so far.

Because Adobe offers PC systems, the amount of interoperability that is available between the CS packages and SCRATCH is really impressive.

None of this happens instantly. But if you are a RED customer who has made the investment in Adobe, you will not be disappointed.

Best,

Lucas Wilson
------------
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA
(...currently at IBC)

[Sanjin Jukic]

Amazing!

[Gunleik Groven]

Great

[Christopher Grant Harvey]

Super!!!

[Mike Harrington]

very good.....
teasers please...

[Maz Mawlawi]

That's good news!...but this article really doesn't tell us anything.... :biggrin:
What a tease! :)

[Steve Freebairn]

This was a seriously good idea on Adobe's part and on Assimliate's part, good job. NO, seriously, this is going to rock!

[alex trettenero]

if only....
if only assimilate could become a little more reddier in terms of price and being mac friendlier...
in that case this could possibly incredible news...

[Corrado Silveri]

See you tomorrow in Amsterdam...

Great!

[Esteban Sosnitsky]

Thats exactly what I thought was gonna happen once that adobe had announced their involvement in RED. There was no other way! Otherwise it could have been a not so nice near future.
THanks for the heads up

[Edgar Pitts]

If Assimilate lowers their prices, this might be interesting. Otherwise...

[shashbugu]

Assimilate is a smart company, that makes really wise decisions. On my posts last week I mentioned it would be smart Adobe to buy technology or work with Assimilate and Red to better the workflow, I had no clue they were already in bed in an orgy together.

[shashbugu]

and I dont think Assimilate have to lower the price of scratch at all, its a niche professional market and one of the most affordable conform solutions in that market, compered to Quantel etc. they are a small company and dont produce a product that the average desktop user needs, if the market and need grows I believe they will respond accordingly. You know final touch is now free "as Color in FCP" but how many people use or actually know how to use it. Thats why Apple has not upgraded or enhanced the software in any big way.

[Steve Sanacore]

http://www.studiodaily.com/main/technique/craft/9897.html

Just fyi for the REDUSER crew. ;)

Over the next few months, you'll see a lot of exciting stuff tied to this announcement. We are extremely excited by what we've seen and done so far.

Because Adobe offers PC systems, the amount of interoperability that is available between the CS packages and SCRATCH is really impressive.

None of this happens instantly. But if you are a RED customer who has made the investment in Adobe, you will not be disappointed.

Best,

Lucas Wilson
------------
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA
(...currently at IBC)


I wish you guys would port it over to the Mac platform too. My PC days are long over.

[albert rudnicki]

Great news indeed.
I wonder only on what level this integration is going to happen.

[Emery Wells]

Because Adobe offers PC systems, the amount of interoperability that is available between the CS packages and SCRATCH is really impressive.


This is great Lucas, however, I hope that the same interoperability will be possible with Macs connected to the same SAN. If you plan on doing something ala Apple from within Premiere like 'send to Scratch' that is obviously not going to work cross platform... just keep the Macs on the top of your list please!

[Zakaree Sandberg]

with all of this PC stuff.. is it a good choice to just get a badddddasssssss PC set up.. or pay up the ass for a 8core mac?

[Thor Wixom]

Lucas,

This is great. Can we expect a similar announcement regarding Cineform?

I want to convert my Red footage to Cineform, edit in Premiere, and then import my Premiere .pproj file into Scratch for color timing and finishing.

Should I make the check out to Assimilate, or Iridas?

-Thor

[Steve Freebairn]

with all of this PC stuff.. is it a good choice to just get a badddddasssssss PC set up.. or pay up the ass for a 8core mac?

Although I love my PC (quad core with 8GB of Ram and running Vista x64), the Mac Pro is an excellent computer that can run OSX and Vista, It's very very hard to buy the equivalent hardware for the same price that apple is selling the standard 8 core system (I know people are going to argue with me, but I've looked into it in the past), the biggest thing is then you can run both OS's. I personally am looking forward to new mac pro's soon, but I don't know how soon that will happen. You can get a quad core pc with 8gb of ram for way cheap right now and let that hold you over until new Mac Pro's come out with the Nehalem processor.

[Christopher Grant Harvey]

Although I love my PC (quad core with 8GB of Ram and running Vista x64), the Mac Pro is an excellent computer that can run OSX and Vista, It's very very hard to buy the equivalent hardware for the same price that apple is selling the standard 8 core system (I know people are going to argue with me, but I've looked into it in the past), the biggest thing is then you can run both OS's. I personally am looking forward to new mac pro's soon, but I don't know how soon that will happen. You can get a quad core pc with 8gb of ram for way cheap right now and let that hold you over until new Mac Pro's come out with the Nehalem processor.

Regardless of the hardware the software just works better on PC architecture ie windows.

[roryhinds]

can't wait to see what Apple have up their sleeve as they where first in there with RED.

Now with the SDK I'm sure there will be many top end Mac solutions on offer and people can choose to work on what ever platform they like.

[Zakaree Sandberg]

i was mostly talking about software.

[Emery Wells]

with all of this PC stuff.. is it a good choice to just get a badddddasssssss PC set up.. or pay up the ass for a 8core mac?

We have a bad ass 8 core skulltrail Boxx but that doesn't mean im going to abandon my beloved OSX. Scratch runs on the Boxx and the rest of our shop is Mac. Whatever they do should be cross platform. If Scratch can open up a premiere timeline for example, it shouldn't matter what OS that project was created on.

[Lucas Wilson]

Lucas,

This is great. Can we expect a similar announcement regarding Cineform?

I want to convert my Red footage to Cineform, edit in Premiere, and then import my Premiere .pproj file into Scratch for color timing and finishing.

Should I make the check out to Assimilate, or Iridas?

-Thor

Thor,

It's a good question.

Obviously, the Adobe / ASSIMILATE combo and the work we plan on doing is not going to happen instantly. And in the meantime, you have work to do. : )

But, if you can edit natively in R3D and finish natively in R3D on the same box, then why would you convert to anything?

To be clear, I'm not trying to pick on Cineform here... they have good solutions that a lot of people like. It's more of a generic workflow question. Why convert if you don't have to? This, of course, assumes that the native playback and editorial is a smooth process! But if it is (and it will be) then why convert?

Lucas

[Lucas Wilson]

...the biggest thing is then you can run both OS's.

Despite anything you read, or anything that anyone tells you - Boot Camp is *not* Windows. There is a lot of flakiness with various Windows system issues that do not happen on a PC built for XP.

My opinion has always been - if you're going to buy professional software for your livelihood, then buy the best hardware for the job. Mac, PC, Solaris, VAX, whatever.

The hardware is a tool, not a religion. If you're going to buy SCRATCH, buy the bad-ass PC to go with it. We do not, nor will we probably ever certify Mac towers with Bootcamp. Too many problems. If the day ever comes that we port to OSX, then of course the towers will be the machine to buy!

DO || ! DO ; try
try: command not found.

Lucas
------
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA

[Steve Freebairn]

Despite anything you read, or anything that anyone tells you - Boot Camp is *not* Windows. There is a lot of flakiness with various Windows system issues that do not happen on a PC built for XP.

My opinion has always been - if you're going to buy professional software for your livelihood, then buy the best hardware for the job. Mac, PC, Solaris, VAX, whatever.

The hardware is a tool, not a religion. If you're going to buy SCRATCH, buy the bad-ass PC to go with it. We do not, nor will we probably ever certify Mac towers with Bootcamp. Too many problems. If the day ever comes that we port to OSX, then of course the towers will be the machine to buy!

DO || ! DO ; try
try: command not found.

Lucas
------
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA



Good to know, I've heard about some people having good success with bootcamp, but that makes complete sense. I am a PC man when I have a choice, I've been building my own computers for years. I'd personally recommend BOXX, HP, or DELL if someone wants to just go out and buy a system.

[Thor Wixom]

Thor,

It's a good question.

Obviously, the Adobe / ASSIMILATE combo and the work we plan on doing is not going to happen instantly. And in the meantime, you have work to do. : )

But, if you can edit natively in R3D and finish natively in R3D on the same box, then why would you convert to anything?

To be clear, I'm not trying to pick on Cineform here... they have good solutions that a lot of people like. It's more of a generic workflow question. Why convert if you don't have to? This, of course, assumes that the native playback and editorial is a smooth process! But if it is (and it will be) then why convert?

Lucas

Lucas,

That's a fair answer to a fair question.

I'm waiting to see how the .R3D plug-in works, how smooth it is, what it's realtime capabilities are, etc.

It's possbile that the 4k .R3D files may only play back at 1/8 res on a given system, where the converted Cineform files may play back at 2k, or even 4k.

Depending on what you can *actually* do with the .R3D files in Premiere, it may be worth the time / expense to convert the files to Cineform, so that you can have the realtime benefits at high(er) resolutions.

Then, it would save time and money to load the .pproj and corresponding Cineform files directly into Scratch.

Just sayin...

Sounds like you're considering it. It would be cool. Keep us posted on the progress.

-Thor

[Mike Harrington]

can't wait to see what Apple have up their sleeve as they where first in there with RED.

i tunes 8 ?

[Gunleik Groven]

I thought it was the downloadable iPizza

[Zach Hilton]

i tunes 8 ? Oh man...that's just funny. :)

[Jay A. Kelley]

Thor,

It's a good question.

Obviously, the Adobe / ASSIMILATE combo and the work we plan on doing is not going to happen instantly. And in the meantime, you have work to do. : )

But, if you can edit natively in R3D and finish natively in R3D on the same box, then why would you convert to anything?

To be clear, I'm not trying to pick on Cineform here... they have good solutions that a lot of people like. It's more of a generic workflow question. Why convert if you don't have to? This, of course, assumes that the native playback and editorial is a smooth process! But if it is (and it will be) then why convert?

Lucas


Luki,

I'm just spitballinig here, but I think Thor is asking due to time issues. As you have said the Assimilate / Adobe / RED Combo is not going to happen overnight, so if Assimilate were to support Cineform AVIs, then this type of workflow would be happening right now.

The trick is that no one is aware of how much work would be required for this to happen.

There may be other reasons we are not privy too, but this is what I think Thor was getting at.

Jay

[Thor Wixom]

Luki,

I'm just spitballinig here, but I think Thor is asking due to time issues. As you have said the Assimilate / Adobe / RED Combo is not going to happen overnight, so if Assimilate were to support Cineform AVIs, then this type of workflow would be happening right now.

The trick is that no one is aware of how much work would be required for this to happen.

There may be other reasons we are not privy too, but this is what I think Thor was getting at.

Jay

Jay,

Having been through the Red, and then the Birger waiting game, I know that it happens when it happens.

However, I would like to know *if* a Cineform / Scratch solution is on the horizon... and some approximation of when (but I know this can and probably will change).

My advice to Lucas is this... most of us who truly understand the Cineform workflow, do not want to give it up. Likewise, we understand that Scratch has a strong marketing tie-in with Red. Scratch is an easier "sell" to a producer or UPM on a Red production. But I'm still going to advise on the benefits of Cineform, if it's appropriate to the production.

Premiere Pro is no longer "not an option". That's good for me because I've been betting on that horse since before 2006, when Red announced their camera.

The fact that Assimilate will integrate with Adobe is great for color timing and conforming... but does nothing to streamline the editing. And I have a suspicion that Cineform is going to be way more streamlined than native .R3D files in Premiere.

If Cineform is more streamlined, why not have the option of better streamlining *and* better finishing?

Supporting Cineform can only increase the customer base of Scratch. If not in direct sales, then in rental time, which will result in more sales.

-Thor

[David Newman]

Jay, Thor & Lucus, Thanks for you questions. There are plenty of good reasons for a fast high quality digital intermediate codec, it simply increases the workflow flexiability. It is particularly handy when mixing camera sources, as not everything is going to be an R3D, also all FX elements are longer going to be raw R3Ds. With N-camera and M-applications, and O-finishing options, it is nice to normalize to something lighter on the disk than DPX or 16-bit TIFFs. With ProRES and DNxHD limited to 4:2:2 and resolution of 1080 in DNxHD case, neither is ideal for film finishing, CineForm is the best way for quality and speed. Some users will convert and finish with CineForm as the cost will be lower, even if they have the opportunity to rent time on a Scratch. The conversion time form R3Ds to CineForm is effectively free, as that is done over night on a users commodity hardware, but know all your down-stream processing is fast, reducing the wait time in editing and finishing renders where time is money. So why it might seem ideal to stay native it is not always the partical or least expensive path. CineForm's Decoder SDK is available, we welcome others supporting it, please email for details.

[Thor Wixom]

David,

Good to see you on this thread. :-)

-Thor

[Christopher Grant Harvey]

David,

Good to see you on this thread. :-)

-Thor

It is, I feel excited when David posts... :bleh:

[michael zaletel]

Why isn't CS4 mentioned?

-shooter

[John Tissavary]

Lucas - for me the top reason to get tight support for the Cineform codec inside of Scratch (btw, Cineform does QT just fine, no need for AVI at all) is VFX and various post-Scratch operations (like filters that Scratch doesn't support).

Quite a lot of shots in a vfx heavy film will have numerous iterations, for instance one pass for speedramping, then post filtering, then compositing with other photographed or cg elements. I find this to be a great stage in the process to use Cineform, as it saves a ton of disk space and plays back on just about any HD (kind of like working with R3D in Scratch as opposed to DPX sequences).

Just makes working with iterative vfx sequences a lot more manageable.



cheers,

John T.

[Lucas Wilson]

Hey guys,

Thanks for all the good answers! Food for thought...

Lucas
------
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA

[Lucas Wilson]

Hi all,

It was really cool to meet a lot of you at the Adobe booth today!

We had easily a few hundred people at the 11:30 presentation today. Premier/After Effects/Encore/SCRATCH - all on the same machine, all working with the same R3D files.

It was cool.

Anybody that is here at IBC can see it again tomorrow at 11:30.

Cheers,

Lucas

[Mark L. Pederson]

Because Adobe offers PC systems, the amount of interoperability that is available between the CS packages and SCRATCH is really impressive.

Best,

Lucas Wilson
------------
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA
(...currently at IBC)

I think what Lucas is highlighting is that you can be on the same machine on the PC platform.

We have Macs on a SAN with our PCs running Scratch and they all play nice together with Adobe - Adobe on the Macs and Adobe on the PCs.