Why AVID ?

[J.Burger]

I use to be an AVID fan… but 10 years ago I bought an EDIT DISCREET System because the AVID MC was way to expensive for my budget.
EDIT worked fine for me till now where RED-material comes in to play… now I obviously need a new system… I thought it should be an AVID, since the prices have dropped dramatically, the last years… Yesterday I returned from IBC and I’m not as sure any more…

After all isn’t FCP the better solution for a small Postproduction house? Of cause I would have to switch form PC to MAC… I never really liked that but besides of that:
I´m looking for good argument why I should be an AVID.
At the IBC I found no body who could convince me… So I would like to ask the same question here in the form: Why AVID?

Thanks for answers…

[Carlos Filipe Sousa]

Well, if you don't know why you should go with Avid, then probably you have no need for it.
That's my first rule.
If you're a small shop, and you start and finish everything at "home" I say choose the tool you're more comfortable with.
Being an Avid|DS operator almost 10 years now, I know the importance of getting an offline from an avid MC or Xpress. I get most of the conform process streamlined from avid AFE, AAF and OMF. EDL from FCP tend to be more buggy, but with experience you can track most of the offline errors and point them to the editor.
Back in the days where we only onlined in a linear room, really expensive material, only the top guys handled the beasts. As so, the CMX3600 (now something over 30 years) was handled with much respect and offlines from sony 900 editors where fast to track.
Nowadays I bump into kids editing (almost first time) and doing offlines. Medium and some large shops tend to get kids from out of school as interns and we have trouble there, and a Mac with (sometimes hacked) FCP is pretty cheap for kids to start editing and doing work - I allways have trouble with those.

If you're doing series you need Avid, if you're doing large editorial workflow I say go with avid, if you're in a comfort zone with avid you can do it all start to finish.
But in a world with such a fast pace as video/data editing you will always be faced with other tools, and will have the need to use FCP, Premiere, Vegas, Avids...
Again, if you don't know why you should go with Avid, probably it's because you can live without it.

My 2 cents

Carlos Filipe
Portuguese DS Operator (Avid|DS)
RED 1964 @ Porto -Betoken

[Bruce Allen]

If not, there are a lot of compelling advantages to FCP - eg native Red editing, Color, etc.

For me, the main reasons to choose Avid instead are if:

1. you work as part of an editing team (ability for multiple people to read and write to bins in the same project is a plus)?
2. you regularly do mixes out of house or finish picture out of house and need your OMFs to be perfect every time?
3. you think a responsive and reliable editing system that allows you to do good edits of highest importance?
4. you work with a lot of scripted narrative material?
5. Quicktime gamma issues and small bugs annoy the heck out of you?
6. you want to work at offline res on HD projects elegantly (DNxHD36)?
7. the best editors in your geographical region are more comfortable with Avid?

If so, look at Avid perhaps?

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[francois]

For thirty years now I have been editing, film, video clips, documentary and the most comfortable tools for me is Avid. I come from the film school, you know, steenbeck, moviola and so forth, and the perfect tools for me are Lightworks (heard of it?) and Avid. But they are tools according to the way we are use to work. The problem I am facing are the update of these tools and for instance Avid and RED are yet not fully fluent in the workflow, pity. I am going to start to cut a feature and it seems that I have to do it with FCP which interface is very much like premiere, and that bother me because I will miss the Avid interface. If there is any avid users working with RED and did not have any problems with it, please let us know, avid lovers, and help us to have the best workflow possible to end up with a beautiful print projected on the big screen.
Francois

[John Logan]

As a regular user of both platforms on multiple television series, everyday for the last six years. I've got to say it comes down to what your priorities are.

FCP is easy to learn, versatile, and seems to do a great job of developing new tools and ways to work with the ever expanding formats and work flows.

But, FCP is buggy, slow, crashes often, has a poor user interface, lacks any real support structure, and it's media management is a nightmare.

Avid is tailored for editors, not "preditors", college kids, or your cousins' wedding videos. It's media management is superb. It's interface is logical, and much more customizable. It's stable, dependable, predictable, and has almost twenty years of thought and design behind it, which becomes readily apparent after you spend enough time using both systems.

But, Avid can be buggy too (although the support is far superior, if you're willing to pay for it!) and is known for being notoriously slow to adapt to new tools and work flows.

As far as RED specific work flow is concerned, it seems to me like the overwhelming majority of users have chosen FCP over Avid. Which demonstrates that FCP's versatility and adaptability might just be a good enough reason to go that route.

I'm not sure when Avid will catch up, I've read some things around here that indicate that they are trying to come up with a RED friendly solution. When that happens, for me, the choice is unquestionably Avid.

Again, it depends on your priorities. Most experienced (and therefore, IMHO, good) editors will prefer Avid. Avid is a better tool for the actual craft of editing, plain and simple.

But if you're looking for a multi-purpose solution, that you can use right now, FCP is probably it.

Here's another way to sum it up, via analogy:

Avid is like a high quality, task specific chef's knife. It only does one thing, but it does very well.

FCP is more like a Swiss army knife. It'll do it all, but how well does it do any of it?

[Marcus Vasques Osorio]

If there is any avid users working with RED and did not have any problems with it, please let us know, avid lovers, and help us to have the best workflow possible to end up with a beautiful print projected on the big screen.
Francois

done 3 90 minutes features for TV, 3 feature films to print all shot on RED and cut in AVID.... both DNxHD36 and DVpal...

Everything has run smoothly, with conforms from offline to online of circa 95% sucess rate with a bit eye matching, this 5% is due to human error, a few mismatched timecodes, and repeated names (before build 16)....

Go AVID if that is what you like, the import is routine once you know it...

PM or call me if you want more info

mahvo (aka marcus)

[Bruce Allen]

If there is any avid users working with RED and did not have any problems with it, please let us know, avid lovers, and help us to have the best workflow possible to end up with a beautiful print projected on the big screen.

I'm starting a RED / Avid short film in 1 week. I'd like to think I'll end up with a big-screen print but that depends on the quality of the film, of course!

The current workflow has some problems (you can see me bitching about it on other threads) but I'll do my best to make it work - will let you guys know.

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[Wayne D]

AVID....FCP.....they all do the same job - edit pictures.

i agree with dsoperator + Bruce - if you are doing big jobs where you have massive amounts of media then it is avid.

[David Birdy]

Great post Logan,

I see FCP being used for quick straight cut edits with a minimal amount of effects...Avid is more of a "craft" editor's tool.

I explained this to a former client and they decided to go with Quantel, as Quantel promised them everything under the sun and Avid had totally pissed them off....

I guess my point is:

In the end it's not always the most stable platform, with the best tools that wins out! That's the downside to the TV bis.....

Dave

[Peter Moretti]

I think DNxHD 36 is one thing that Avid really has going for it when it comes to Red.

[J.Burger]

Thanks a lot for all the answers and input…

Hope AVID and RED get a bit better along in the future so that the decision for the MC is no question anymore…

[Jason Diamond]

It will be sooner than you think. just hang in and dive into the App. you'll be glad you did.
BTW i have nothing against FCP :) great package.

[Paul Rosckes]

AVID....FCP.....they all do the same job - edit pictures.

i agree with dsoperator + Bruce - if you are doing big jobs where you have massive amounts of media then it is avid.

It true that they both edit, but I've always felt that Avid is more focused on making editing faster and easier. A perfect example of that is ScriptSync:

http://www.avid.com/scriptsync/scriptsync.asp

This is a really interesting feature which you won't find in FCP anytime soon (if ever). I've brought this up with many editors over the past year and I'm amazed that almost no one knows about it, or knows that script-based editing has been available in Avid for over a decade.

Now someone who prefers FCP over Avid might say that FCP offers great tools like Motion, Color, and Soundtrack Pro that aren't in Avid. And I would say "That's great, but what do those tools have to do with EDITING."

Although I have to say that if you're an editor/sound designer, then FCP+Soundtrack Pro is hard to beat. It all comes down to what you want to do, and how well you want to do it.

-Paul

[Dylan Reeve]

I have this discussion over and over again...

In my opinion FCP's strength, generally, is in an online-only workflow. Where you're pulling footage in at full res, editing and finishing in one pass. It is not as well suited to the offline/online workflow.

Avid, while not as flexible in terms of media support perhaps, is very very solid in offline/online work and has brilliant media-management.

One of the major things for me has been realtime performance. I've simply been unable to get anything like the realtime responsiveness and performance in FCP that I get in Avid. I find myself waiting for renders and coping with a sluggish interface in FCP on more intensive job, while Avid in a similar situation is still snappy and provides great realtime playback (both for preview and final output).

The current RED workflow with FCP isn't nearly as streamlined and simple as it seems, and while Avid hasn't got an official workflow available yet, there are a few very manageable ways to work with RED in Avid.

[Greg Huson]

Here's a thought: We've moved all but one of our Avids over to Mac- and all those macs have FCS loaded on them, too. If only avid would take video from Kona (ignoring DS in this plea) OR open their hardware to capturing for FCS, it would be the ideal combo.