Redmotor plus zoom rocker

[Michael Ragen]

I am definitely going to be picking up the Supergrip and Redmotor, but I think another handy accessory would be a zoom rocker that mounts to the top handle or a tripod pan handle for when shooting in other configs. A lot shooting that requires subtle zooms is not handheld. Also if the rocker had a couple extra buttons, like start/stop record would be handy for when shooting low with the top handle. It could also mount on one of the front side handles for when shooting Figrig style. I have a similar setup to this with my HVX with a Varizoom mounted on the Figrig handle.

[Brook Willard]

The SuperGrip can be mounted to a tripod's grip very easily. We were doing this at the show.

It also has start/stop controls as well as audio level controls.

[Anders Holck]

The supergrip can easily be mounted as a tripod handle

[Michael Ragen]

That sounds great. I must have missed that at NAB. Would it be sturdy enough to mount as the top handle for a light camera config though?

[Brook Willard]

The prototype was made of a rapid prototyping plastic - so not at this point. It could certainly be mounted *to* a top handle, but it won't support the camera's weight at this point.

[CVB]

The production supergrips will be diecast magnesium so they should be able to handle a fair amount of abuse. The motors are going to be diecast as well. I had the opportunity to check out some preston DM1 motors the other day... The RED motor seems to be lighter, smaller, more responsive, and have more torque. One thing to keep in mind is that the RED motor is waaaaay more complex than a typical digital lens motor. There is a microcontroller/amplifier on board so there is no external control box necessary. We're going to be manufacturing a wireless remote as well as a FF knob that directly interfaces to the motor. This is going to be a fun year to be a camera op.

[Poi Boy]

Hey Curt good to see you about. How was your NAB experience ?
Aloha
-A

[CVB]

I'm just recovering... Got back last night and slept most of the day :) We did really well at the show and have about 10 orders for our moco system. Not to bad for a first production run.

[Poi Boy]

How long will it take you to ship your product and did you get a chance to see the red footage ?
-A

[Poi Boy]

Oh ! I forgot.. Congratulations.
-A

[Adam C Lubkin]

Curt, can you share any more details of the supergrip? I didn't manage to gather much about it at NAB. If there's something already on the forum then can someone please direct me to it? I'm especially curious how the focus controller works.

[Jason Francois]

10 orders. Congrats Curt!

[CVB]

Thanks. We're happy that there are people that can trust us and look at the technology rather than the size of our company. We'll be shipping in October so we have a lot of work in the next couple months to get beta units out.

The RED grip is basically a smart grip that you can use to control the RED motor(s) and certain camera functions. It has 3 buttons on the top to select which axis you want to control (Focus, Zoom, or Iris) and 4 function buttons in the middle that can be mapped to certain camera functions. The big joystick in the middle is used to control the motor speed/direction. Is a great addition to the camera and should make a lot of ENG guys happy.

[Matt Uhry]

We're going to be manufacturing a wireless remote as well as a FF knob that directly interfaces to the motor. This is going to be a fun year to be a camera op.

Just one cable from the lemo on the front of the camera to the motor? that would be cool. Would it have a decent range and very fast response time? Also basic camera functions ? at least Run / Stop... How will you set the stops at the ends of the range?

Matt Uhry
www.mattuhry.com

[Brook Willard]

There is a microcontroller/amplifier on board so there is no external control box necessary.My hero...


We're going to be manufacturing a wireless remote as well as a FF knob that directly interfaces to the motor.
So my AC can plug in a FF knob to the motor on the camera and pull from camera side... without having to switch over to a traditional FF? So I don't need to have two units on set? Just one that does both traditional and wireless?


This is going to be a fun year to be a camera op.Yep... I can finally get my AC out of my hair on handheld days... for a reasonable price!

[CVB]

Just one cable from the lemo on the front of the camera to the motor? that would be cool. Would it have a decent range and very fast response time? Also basic camera functions ? at least Run / Stop... How will you set the stops at the ends of the range?


The Supergrip has two connections from the camera - one from the aux power connector on the back of the camera and one from the B4 connector at the front right of the camera. I assumed that everyone saw the Record and Balance buttons on the grip but yes... record start/stop and white balance are the two big buttons. The motors have an auto calibration routine that finds the end stops of the lens. You can also set soft stops that are user-defined (this is TBD). Response time is excellent from the supergrip to the motors and the backlash is near non-existent.


So my AC can plug in a FF knob to the motor on the camera and pull from camera side... without having to switch over to a traditional FF? So I don't need to have two units on set? Just one that does both traditional and wireless?
Thats the idea. We are going to be making two things: the wireless remote and the clip on FF dial. The remote will be around the price of a bartech and able to control 3 motors instead of just one. The clip on FF dial is a one axis control and will most likely not be wireless. It will be able to work with a VERY long cable though - 100 ft or so.



Yep... I can finally get my AC out of my hair on handheld days... for a reasonable price!
:)

[Priyesh P.]

Thanks. We're happy that there are people that can trust us and look at the technology rather than the size of our company. We'll be shipping in October so we have a lot of work in the next couple months to get beta units out.

The RED grip is basically a smart grip that you can use to control the RED motor(s) and certain camera functions. It has 3 buttons on the top to select which axis you want to control (Focus, Zoom, or Iris) and 4 function buttons in the middle that can be mapped to certain camera functions. The big joystick in the middle is used to control the motor speed/direction. Is a great addition to the camera and should make a lot of ENG guys happy.

Hi Curt,

Just wondering - are you involved with the red motors ?
BTW, do you have any lastest renderings of the mentioned wireless controller and focus knob ? You´re still making your own servos, right ?

Regards and congratulations,

Priyesh

[CVB]

RED is the sole distributor or the motors. We had a motor design back in October of last year and since then have decided that RED can offer much more to the end user than we could in terms of pricing and support. As such we are not going to be making our own motors.

Here's the latest renderings of the wireless controller... since NAB this has already drastically changed. Feedback is welcome though. I'll post more renders soon.

[Brook Willard]

I like the design, Curt. The inclusion of that knob is an absolute must.

Is it easy to hold? It's difficult to judge scale here.

[CVB]

Yes, there are modular input devices.. knobs, sliders, force sensors etc. The form factor is about the size of a large calculator and was just our first stab at the design... its by no means thought out ergonomically. The next revision is going to be significantly different... I guess I'm looking for feedback on what people would really want in their "Dream" remote. We're open to suggestions for the next couple weeks after which we are going to start cranking our protos.

[Albert Cheng]

Judging from the pics, it's flat and wide. The form factor isn't very ergonomic for an AC to hold while adjusting the wheel.

Please take a look at CMotion's FIZ controller at: http://www.cmotion.at/

Go to the Products > LCS > Coperate page for a picture of the design or download the movie.

Also, check out this video of the cdisplay in action at http://www.cmotion.eu/download/video/06-cdisplay.mov

Their touch screen has all kinds of lens information including a visual display of depth of field and hyperfocal distance. If you guys are going to make a FF for the Red, in true Red fashion, make it better than anything else out there.

[Priyesh P.]

RED is the sole distributor or the motors. We had a motor design back in October of last year and since have decided that RED can offer much more to the end user that we could. As such we are not going to be making our own motors.

Here's the latest renderings of the wireless controller... since NAB this has already drastically changed. Feedback is welcome though. I'll post more renders soon.

Interesting to hear. Thanks for the info !
Any idea on the pricing of your controller ?
I´ve a feature request: a physical run button :-)

But seriously, I think a vertical screen could be better than a horizontal one, to better fit the scales and possible focus markings etc.
And like opcode wrote, I think something more "pistolgrip-sized" would be better to hold and operate with, with the screen on top - I´m thinking of the red supergrip with a focus disk on the side and a vertical screen on top.

[CVB]

Opcode.. thanks for the feedback. c-motion has a great design and we agree that if its going to be done for RED then it should be done ten times better and as 1/10th the price :)

Kalone: Pricing should be around $1200 or less for the wireless controller.

I think for brainstormings sake you guys should spit out ideas regardless if you think they are possible or not. Although the rendering has a display I really would like to go for the simplest solution possible, GUI design is notorious for sucking up a lot of development time.

[Brian D. Goff]

And like opcode wrote, I think something more "pistolgrip-sized" would be better to hold and operate with, with the screen on top - I´m thinking of the red supergrip with a focus disk on the side and a vertical screen on top.

Or the display is square and you can flip the display via software.

[Brook Willard]

Personally, Arri's LDS is the most attractive option on the market... here's what I love about it:

I love the small grip for the left hand [something a user can get their fingers all the way around rather than the calculator-esque shape of your old render] and the focus knob for the right. I love that all three axis have their individual control surfaces.

The best feature to me is the distance/DOF graph. Combine that with something like the Cinetape for the perfect product. Allow me to explain:

Lets say you have the 18-50mm F:2.8/i on the camera. The camera knows all three axis of the lens and is transmitting that data to the wireless interface.

The screen shows all three bits of data, but also shows a graph on the left. The graph should display a linear or logarithmic representation of the focus distances available on the lens.

A tick mark should represent the current focal length and a different colored box around the tick mark should represent the current acceptable range of focus. That is, the device calculates acceptable focus based on the three pieces of data coming from the lens compared in real time against an internal DOF chart. If I change any axis of the lens, the chart should react in real time. If I move my focus point, for example, the focus tick should move on the graphic representation of the lens's focal range and the different colored "acceptable focus" box should change size accordingly.

Also on the graph should be an additional tick representing the current reading from the Cinetape Measure. That way I can "chase" the mark with my focus distance tick... or at least see that it is within the acceptable range of focus. There should be a way to have the focus distance tick automatically follow the Cinetape Measure output tick.

The graph and focus device should be capable of calculating all relevant lens information for a given lens setting. I should never have to get out my ASC manual for charts again. If I want to know the hyperfocal distance of the lens, all I should have to do is look at the graph on the left... there'll be a little "Hyperfocal" tick that changes with my lens.

You get the picture. What I have in mind is very similar to Arri's LDS with a few refinements. I'll Photoshop a mockup of what I have in mind interface-wise.

[Alexander Black]

You asked for a brain dump, here 'tis:

I'd like a relatively small monotone screen - red would actually be a good backlight color - that can be rotated accoring to the AC's preference. Left handed operation and right handed operation are different. I like to hold the wheel just a bit off axis to relax my wrist - so the ability to rotate the screen would be useful.

The "cradling" hand should be paid careful attention: make sure the thing will nestle into the palm of a relaxed and and not require any effort to keep in place. A strap is good - a saftey clip is also good.

A mount point for the arm + lcd would be insanely fantastic, with the ability to mask important information over the footage as it was passing through.

You should be able to mount it on the rails so the camera operator can use it while using the camera.

The disc should be at least 30deg - not flat - so markings/mark lights can be seen both from straight on and from the side.

You appear already to be planning to use a touch sensitive surface for zoom/iris control. (?) If you have it accessible by thumb while focusing, I suggest you allow the operator to set the max and min position based on the length of their thumb (press range button, go top to bottom, led flashes you've done the setup).

As another poster said: all relevant lens info: iris, focus distance in cm/meters or inches/feet, current focal length, depth of field in inches/feet or cm/meters..

Everything wireless. Cords bad :)

Record/playback of ff/zoom/iris movements..

Memory of all preferences for multiple operators (this is a bit much but could be cool)

Uh... built in espresso maker? Micro chocolate chip cookie dispenser? :P

Reasonable battery life on 9volts, or an internal power supply which can be charged on the red charger..

Rugged but that seems to be the name of the game with red...

Dimmable screen!

Other relevant camera info: time remaining on record source, audio, etc.

All I can think of at the moment.

[Mike Prevette]

Curt,

The knob in the drawing is on the wrong side. AC's are most commonly used to the knob on the left (smart) side of the camera. Muscle memory plays a huge roll in pulling focus.

_mike

[Brook Willard]

Mike, I find that most wireless FIZs have their focus knob set for right hand operation. Curt's design is modular enough that the knob could be set on the right or left... if I'm understanding his mockup properly.

Here's a 2 minute Photoshop of the interface. It's almost identical to Arri's LDS... this is mostly to visually explain what I was struggling with verbally. I have a lot more ideas where this came from... basing the interface off of an entirely different concept... but they're just not going to make it onto the boards at 2:00 in the morning.

There's much brainstorming to be done...

[CVB]

Wow.. great feedback guys. I'll see what I can do about the mini cookie dispenser, that might be an optional add on. Mike, thanks for the heads up... I wasn't really paying much attention to the position because the current design is modular. The force sensor, slider, and dial can be put on any side you like.

I'll put together a list of features and throw up some more sketches soon. It's nice having access to a pool of knowledge and get feedback during the design process.

[Mike Prevette]

Mike, I find that most wireless FIZs have their focus knob set for right hand operation. Curt's design is modular enough that the knob could be set on the right or left... if I'm understanding his mockup properly.

Yes and I always used to hold them upside down! The Barteck is great because you can hold it to either side. But apparently it's modular, so no worries.


_mike

[roryhinds]

Hi Curt

Do you know when the remote will be available?

I know you guys are still developing but a time frame would be great.

Many thanks
Rory

[Barend Onneweer]

CVB, since you seem to be working closely with RED on this: will there be a data-feed from the lensmotor back to the camera, to record metadata on focus-distance etc. into the images? That would be utterly cool.

[David Limpus]

ok left field and I have probably not thought this thru, if a iphone with wireless interfaces, display, a multi touch surface and a docking point. Why could you not use it as an interface? Could it be possible to dock control knobs and load software? If so where could this lead to external controls of RED One. (Yes it is possible to have to many eggs in one basket and having the phone enabled and on vibrate while pulling focus would possibly not be recommended, unless looking for that effect)

[Volker Ehlers]

Hi CVB,

Am very excited to hear about your remote/ wireless project.

As a small rental house we would certainly love to find a new product competing with ARRI W-LCS or CMotion .
(The guys behind CMotion are Ex-ARRI and developed the early W-LCS as you might know and one can see from their products and prices.)

A system that would meet above standards would certainly be fantastic if competitive in price.
For us the open architecture would be important as well.
- All modules should work on their own - wired/ wireless.
- They should be configurable in whatever way.
Unlike the CMotion coperate hand module I would prefer the old way of ARRI W-LCS. It gives you the option leaving iris (+ zoom) control to operator and only focus to AC. (We could also rent out microforce to one customer, Wireless FF to another - you get the idea)
- The system should also work with other Motors/ Cameras... obviously...
- If you manage to incorporate open_iris/zoom_in, memory repeat, option on Cooke i/data or tag-reader for other lenses, display for lens status,...
...and your product is under
- the 20 EuroKilos mark that I would have to pay for (most of the above) getting a second hand ARRI W-LCS
- or 33 EuroKilos for new CMotion...
...you can book us in as customers.

All the best
Volker

[Finner]

Hi Curt,

I have a list of a few things.

1. The focus puck and T-stop slide would be nice if they had a dimable glow (resist red color for the glow, it would look cool but red spills all over a set badly so simple white is better)

2. Weather resistance and a functional weather cover for it. I never found a weather cover that worked very well (wish I could input some advice for the weather cover itself but I just don't know what would work best. Maybe someone else has some ideas on this front.)

3 Thick soft lanyard to hang remote ff from your neck (again resist color red as it shows up badly off car windows and such. When it comes to camera gear black is always best.)

4. Variable gearing options for the ff. So you can make the ff motor spin 1:1 with the ff control or make the motor move less then the spin of the ff wheel. This will help give still lenses with a short focus throw have the option on the ff puck to have a much longer focus throw. The variable button or switch will have to be protected by a flap or cover so it can not be moved by accident that would throw off a lenses marks and screw a focus puller bad.

5. removable ff pucks and T-stop slide marking covers. That way you can just have pre-made ones for each lense that sit in the lense case and you just swap them when you swap that lense.

6. The mark point for the ff should be movable so that if the motor hops a cog and you really need to shoot you dont have to take the time to recycle the motor and have it recalibrate. Sometimes you just dont have the time to do that and a quick move of the ff mark point would be easier.

7 A slide button for the T-stop will be better then a pressure sensitive slide like what it looks like you have. Simple functional buttons and switches always are easier to use then high tech button options.

8 If I understand right you are saying that there will be an option to attach the ff wheel directly to the motor. This is an excellent idea but as I mentioned in #4 a variable gearing option for the ff wheel to the motor would be very helpful for short focus throw still lenses so maybe if the variable gearing control switch or button was on the motor rather then the controller would help so that you could have this variable option available when you hook the ff wheel directly to the motor (If I am doing a poor job of explaining this please get back to me so I can try and explain better).

9 Also I am not quite sure but it seems like you are saying there will be no reciever on the camera instead each motor will be a reciever on its own? if this is the case it would be good if each motor you had the choice with a button to choose if it was a FF, Zoom or Iris controler. This way if your FF one goes down you can just use the zoom one. I am a little confused with this and feel it would be simplier to have a reciever on the camera that contoled the motors. Can you please explain how this system works as I am a little confused.

10. different colour (yes colour is spelled right Canadian spelling Apple spelled it wrong on their new system. haha) but different colour cables that run to each motor so it is easy at a quick glance to tell them apart.

11. A over kill battery for the controler would be good as cold weather sucks up batteries bad. A non propritary recharchable battery that you can pick up at lets say a hobby car/plane shop would help out a lot.

I will probably come up with more but I am off to church for now.

[CVB]

Do you know when the remote will be available?

Should have beta units in a few months... Shipping in October-ish.


CVB, since you seem to be working closely with RED on this: will there be a data-feed from the lensmotor back to the camera, to record metadata on focus-distance etc. into the images? That would be utterly cool. Stuart will have to answer this one. When it comes to camera functionality I can't really promise things that RED would have to deliver on.


ok left field and I have probably not thought this thru, if a iphone with wireless interfaces, display, a multi touch surface and a docking point. Why could you not use it as an interface? Could it be possible to dock control knobs and load software? If so where could this lead to external controls of RED One. (Yes it is possible to have to many eggs in one basket and having the phone enabled and on vibrate while pulling focus would possibly not be recommended, unless looking for that effect)
Apple is notoriously closed source. I wouldn't expect that any 3rd party manufacturer will be allowed access to that screen functionality.



- All modules should work on their own - wired/ wireless.
This might be difficult. The modules on the remote are currently designed as stupid sensors so there are no transceiver or microcontrollers on each control axis. If this is something that is necessary we can rethink the design but it might add significant cost to the end user. (about $200 per module)



- The system should also work with other Motors/ Cameras... obviously...
The RED motors are very complex little beasts... they aren't just a motor and encoder like the competition has. To make them work with a bartech or preston type system would require a convertor to make the motors emulate a simpler system. Hopefully if we do our job right you can sell you old systems on ebay and buy 5 of ours ;)



- If you manage to incorporate open_iris/zoom_in, memory repeat, option on Cooke i/data or tag-reader for other lenses, display for lens status,...
...and your product is under
- the 20 EuroKilos mark that I would have to pay for (most of the above) getting a second hand ARRI W-LCS
- or 33 EuroKilos for new CMotion...
...you can book us in as customers. Done. The RED motors are full motion control units. They can remember hundreds of preset positions and can record and repeat moves (if uses in conjunction with the remote). Pricing on the motors and remote are TBD but you guys are going to be very happy.



4. Variable gearing options for the ff. So you can make the ff motor spin 1:1 with the ff control or make the motor move less then the spin of the ff wheel. This will help give still lenses with a short focus throw have the option on the ff puck to have a much longer focus throw. The variable button or switch will have to be protected by a flap or cover so it can not be moved by accident that would throw off a lenses marks and screw a focus puller bad.
This is probably the easiest feature request. Scaling the movement is very simple from a software perspective.



7 A slide button for the T-stop will be better then a pressure sensitive slide like what it looks like you have. Simple functional buttons and switches always are easier to use then high tech button options. We have already ditched the non-tactile sliders... they seemed like a good idea at time :)



8 If I understand right you are saying that there will be an option to attach the ff wheel directly to the motor. This is an excellent idea but as I mentioned in #4 a variable gearing option for the ff wheel to the motor would be very helpful for short focus throw still lenses so maybe if the variable gearing control switch or button was on the motor rather then the controller would help so that you could have this variable option available when you hook the ff wheel directly to the motor (If I am doing a poor job of explaining this please get back to me so I can try and explain better). The FF wheel would attach to the matte bars or any other spot you like... It will be wired to the motor and camera power. We can add a multiposition switch on the back of the wheel to digitally control the gear ratio.



9 Also I am not quite sure but it seems like you are saying there will be no reciever on the camera instead each motor will be a reciever on its own? if this is the case it would be good if each motor you had the choice with a button to choose if it was a FF, Zoom or Iris controler. This way if your FF one goes down you can just use the zoom one. I am a little confused with this and feel it would be simplier to have a reciever on the camera that contoled the motors. Can you please explain how this system works as I am a little confused. The motors don't have wireless onboard. They must be cabled to a small receiver box (around the size of a box of cigarettes). So for a FIZ setup you would have a cable from each motor going to this small box and you would have a power cable running from the camera to the box as well. The motors are told what their function is based off which port you plug them into on the receiver box.

Finner, thanks for putting that all down for us.. I remember most of the suggestions from the show but its nice have all this in one place. BTW.. that avatar is disturbing.

[Brook Willard]

5. removable ff pucks and T-stop slide marking covers. That way you can just have pre-made ones for each lense that sit in the lense case and you just swap them when you swap that lense.


This shouldn't be necessary on a digital system. If it's an intelligent lens, the FF will know what lens you have on and set itself up accordingly. If it's not an intelligent lens, you should be able to select it from a library and have it auto-calibrate. No inaccurate little marking tabs like you'd use on a BFD.

[Finner]

This shouldn't be necessary on a digital system. If it's an intelligent lens, the FF will know what lens you have on and set itself up accordingly. If it's not an intelligent lens, you should be able to select it from a library and have it auto-calibrate. No inaccurate little marking tabs like you'd use on a BFD.

I may not have explained this that well brook but what I am talking about is actual premarked pucks and t-stops as they are different on different lenses. This way you don't have to re-mark a puck each time you change a lense you just swap pucks for each lense. This is much quicker and because like you mention each lense will recalibrate the same way when it is cycled through with the motor. This system just works the fastest and is a simple system. I have worked with quite a few focus pullers that use this same puck swap system for their mechanical follow focus systems and just have permanent marked pucks for every lense.

Hope I did a better job of explaining myself this time.

[Brook Willard]

I see what you mean. My point was to forgo marks on the puck altogether... as the focus distance would be represented on the screen of the focus device. No need for focus marks if the AC relies on the screen.

That said, I understand the desire for focus marks on the puck itself. I'd only eye that for reference though... making the final focus point determination based on the digital calculation on the display rather than the sharpie'd mark on the puck.

[Alexander Black]

+1 on the puck swap.

[Volker Ehlers]

As mentioned somewhere else - pulling focus is also "muscle memory". Can't see pucks being replaced by screens. Its fractions of seconds to see your object moving and "know" where you are on the scale (as you know). To orientate on a screen and have no visual references on the hand wheel might be a bit too slow for just "checking" you are on the spot. It would be great as an add-on rather than replacing the well established system Finner is referring to.

[Priyesh P.]

Anyone actually used ARRI`s or CMOTION´s LCS ?
I´ve never seen that someone used marked pucks on those.
Focus marks yes but not scales.

[Volker Ehlers]

Might be wrong myself but took puck for american version of scale (as in white plastic ring to be marked with lens markings). Please correct me if I am wrong

[Priyesh P.]

Yes, that´s correct - actually the name I am more familiar with was
"marking disk".
I was referring to Brook´s note, he already mentioned that LCSs with
displays that have a digital resemblance of the lens scale like Arri´s or Cmotion´s shouldn´t need a second, physical and ( time-consumingly ) handmarked disk on the knob. ( if I´m not mistaken ).
But like you said Volker, it´s a matter of taste, so maybe there are some
more people who like to have it.

[Brook Willard]

Anyone actually used ARRI`s or CMOTION´s LCS ?
I´ve never seen that someone used marked pucks on those.
Focus marks yes but not scales.

I've used Arri's... and I love it. It's a brilliant system, just a little pricey. It also has its failings... which I'm hoping will be addressed with Curt's system.

But no, I've never seen somebody mark the pucks. Most professional ACs I know don't use "1, 2, 3" marks, but instead memorize distances for a given shot and pull accordingly.

[Finner]

When I talk about marked pucks what I mean is marked with 1 foot to infinity marks so you know your tape measure distances and the puck is marked so all you have to do is slap it on and you are ready to go with any lense. Pretty much every focus puller I have worked with in LA or Vancouver use this system when using a remote follow focus.

[Volker Ehlers]

Have been rental service tech for years in Germany and have seen hundreds of AC "paint" their scales when testing equipment. Permanent marker and celluar tape on top and of you go for a shoot. A good rental house will always offer two scales/ marking ring per lens unasked. Afterwards the trainees of the rental have to rub them clean with white spirit.

Also have used/ maintained ARRI's and CMotions. Find them very good - but there is always room for improvement - and the price! A fully rigged CMotion will come around 33.000 Euro I believe.

[Isaac Babcock]

A little off topic, but as long as folks are talking about the supergrip, does anyone know if this could be used in place of a Preston zoom control to power an older 4-pin zoom servo motor (pin 4 = +12v/ pin 1= GND) built into a lens. In case it isn't obvious, I know little about zoom motors, but I'm considering swapping my 150-600 for one with a built in servo motor. It won't focus manually, only w/preston microforce. Could I adapt the supergrip to work with it? much thanks.

[Volker Ehlers]

I have also used Genio and MagFox. They are much milder in price. I believe both would be tested to their limits on the long scales of UltraPrimes or Cooke S4. (Chrosziel also has high-end system Aladin - don't know it) Have shot on Steadycam as AC where for some reason the lens scale is soon out of sync/ slightly moved - nightmarish - that's exactly where higher quality comes into play. To my knowledge ARRI and CMotion will find a scale marking repeatedly after hours of work without the need to check or realign/ calibrate. With /i lenses the sync problem becomes obsolete anyways.
But with "dumb" lenses you sometimes also want to have a simple way of realigning the scale VERY quickly as Finner mentioned. Only problem - the difference will multiply on the other end of the scale and quickly confuse. Not sure about it. Can remember wanting something like that myself but will it not invite to run even more out of sync?
I think basics like scales visible 180 degrees (phased), compatible size to ARRI FF system, night readable, lock-down end stops, strech/compress scale function and easy alignment should be granted.

Man I want them to build this thing! Have been lurking around for second hand stuff but this could be worth waiting a while!

Some thought anyways - Good night
Volker

[Erik Widding]

When I talk about marked pucks what I mean is marked with 1 foot to infinity marks so you know your tape measure distances and the puck is marked so all you have to do is slap it on and you are ready to go with any lense. Pretty much every focus puller I have worked with in LA or Vancouver use this system when using a remote follow focus.

Digital system. It would not be difficult to make the lens match a pre-marked puck. With the EOS mount, we know exactly which lens is on the mount, and CVB's box could automatically load a different curve to make it match. We can actually generate the curve for some lenses from that lens. Same goes for our other mounts, and any Cooke/i lens. With another lens, the user would manually select it from a list of lenses that already have curves in a library. If it is a one of a kind lens, got to do it from scratch. But this calibration might only require four or five focus points at most to get the curve.

Regardless of the lens, camera, and mount, still going to have to take two focus points to make sure it all lines up. But the system can just remember this data each time it sees the same lens. You only do this calibration step if you want to, or something changed.

Still can effectively get an infinite selection of pucks per lens, by selecting a start and stop point for the scale when set to the puck with the "lowest gear ratio". Then hit a button, and the ratio is exactly what you want. You can even have a non-linear response, so the puck movement relates to linear in distance, instead of linear in focus mechanism distance for example.

If the above did not address the problem, what is it that I am missing?

[Volker Ehlers]

Don't think we are trying to solve a problem here. Seems to be a response from different sides as to what "their" ideal remote system would be.

From my experience with lenses I can only point out that ARRI/ZEISS as well as COOKE issue their lens barrels in editions from A-H. When I think of having to present premarked scales out of a variety of 12 barrels with 14 primes in a set I loose the whole point? What is wrong with marking a scale by hand? This is rental perspective but also valid I believe.

Volker

[Mike Prevette]

In my AC past I always preferred to mark by hand. Every lens and lens/camera combo is a little different. Marking by hand at the prep gave me the security to know it was accurate.

Also please have some refrence bumps or notches around the mount that the puck sits on. I routinely used to move the knob till it was at the starting focus mark, put my index finger on the knob so it touched both the bump on the frame and the knob. As I drifted away from that mark during a shot I could always return to it because my finger would hit the bump.

I almost never looked at my handpainted scale on the knob during the shot. That is a big AC no-no, you might miss something while you take your eyes off the subject. Again muscle memory is your hero in this situation.

_mike

[Priyesh P.]

I think we need sort of an accessories subforum to keep threads like this live.
Don´t know how that could be done.

[Ralph Oshiro]

I think we need sort of an accessories subforum to keep threads like this live.
Don´t know how that could be done.
Good f'n idea! I nearly missed this valuable, and INCREDIBLY intrigueing thread! ACCESSORIES SUBFORUM, YES!

[Priyesh P.]

Good f'n idea! I nearly missed this valuable, and INCREDIBLY intrigueing thread! ACCESSORIES SUBFORUM, YES!

Thanks, Ralph.

K.