Any advice for entering timecode AFTER importing footage to Avid?

[Nigel Stanford]

I'm writing a help file...

If someone imports Red Quicktimes into an Avid and not used metacheater or an ALE, the Avid files don't have timecode.

Has anyone had this happen to them? What did you do to fix it?

I'm assuming you manually enter timecode into each clip, but what's the best way of getting that timecode?

[I Bloom]

Transcode the quicktimes first to DnxHD using compressor or Redrushes. Make sure you transform audio to 24 bit.

IBloom

[Nigel Stanford]

Hi Ian, do you mean prior to editing? In this case, the editor has a finished cut but no timecode in any of the Avid files...

[I Bloom]

Aha,

Sorry, then I think you are right that you must enter timecode manually.

I'm building something for this problem but.... not available yet :(

IBloom

[Nigel Stanford]

Yeah it's a big pain. The main issue is finding out what the timecode is for each clip. We had to do it once on a project where there was a digital slate with timecode on frame 1, so we could type it in from there. Lots of human error but it worked ok.
The question is, is there an automated way. Can you import the footage again (correctly) into the avid and somehow tell it to use the new footage? Like the reconnect media function in final cut? My gut says no.

At the very least, could you import the footage again into a different bin, and then have both bins on the screen and copy the timecode from on to the other?

[Mark L. Pederson]

If you transcode to DV100 (DVCPRO HD) you could WRAP it into an MXF - and that would drop right into Avid with TC if I am not mistaken.

[Nils Ruinet]

If you transcode to DV100 (DVCPRO HD) you could WRAP it into an MXF - and that would drop right into Avid with TC if I am not mistaken.
Sounds interesting, but how do you wrap a file into an MXF ?
Is there a software that does that ?
Any chance we'll be able to do that in RedRushes one day ?
That would be cool even for DNxHD, when the new codec becomes available...

[MichaelP]

MXF carries the metadata wrapped around the essence (DVCOPRO, MPEG, DNxHD, etc.). Doing the ALE first then merging is essentially the same thing in the case that the metadata is carried in the ALE. The ALE can contain a LOT more information than what is defined in the MXF.

Although this behavior is being changed for a future release, there is not much you can do now other than entry on a per clip basis that I can think of...


Michael

[Mark L. Pederson]

Although this behavior is being changed for a future release
Michael

meaning AVID will read the TC from QT files?

[MichaelP]

Yes. Still working all the details as far as which timecode at what rate in which project type as well as defining a source ID, but at the very least a timecode.

Michael

[M Most]

If someone imports Red Quicktimes into an Avid and not used metacheater or an ALE, the Avid files don't have timecode.


Am I being naive in pointing out that since Metacheater is free, and freely available, there is no reason to do this in the first place? Making an ALE using Metacheater takes about 15 seconds, and all of the available metadata is then available in Avid. Using batch import takes the same amount of time as using direct import. So why would one not do that?

[Greg Huson]

At the very least, could you import the footage again into a different bin, and then have both bins on the screen and copy the timecode from on to the other?

I think this is probably the fastest way to solve your problem. Re-import all the footage using the metacheater method, then replace every single shot. Of course, the re-import would take a while, but it's more or less unattended if its set up right. An experienced trailer or promo editor (or good assistant) is used to 'clean printing' and could do this pretty fast.

In theory, you could also copy (cmd/ctl D) the 'name' column into the reel number column, (not in front of a machine so I don't know if that will actually work) then take a print out of the metacheater ALE and hand-enter (or open in excell or a text editor then copy-and-paste) the start time into each clip. This would allow you to use the RED16 edl format, or you could simply hand-alter the reel number (the normal 'monkey' style) to represent just the camera - A001, etc., then carefully paste in the start times. Avid won't allow you to alter the start time without a reel number.

Can't Craig just whip out some code for this? Are you baiting us? 'Extract' is so useful I'm surprised you're even raising this concern!

[Greg Huson]

Actually, it seems like a problem Craig COULD solve. It could be a mode in Extract. I'm no programmer, but it seems that all you have to do is use the red16 EDL, since that uses the EXACT file name of each file, instead of the short reel name, then generate a look up table of the original source quicktimes - metacheater, essentially, the create a bit of code that looks at each line of the EDL, calculates start time as an offset from 1 hour (all Avid quicktime imports, until Michael gets it fixed, start at 1 hour) and adds that to the actual start time of the same clip in the look up table (or rather, adds the start time to the offset, dropping that new value into the EDL.) Easier said than done, I'm certain, and difficult to make fool-proof, but seems doable. Seems a hell of a lot easier than writing monkey extract, but what do I know?

[akis]

Greg, I believe you got it right. Avid import TC minus 1 hour = Red Edgecode.

[David Battistella]

Am I being naive in pointing out that since Metacheater is free, and freely available, there is no reason to do this in the first place? Making an ALE using Metacheater takes about 15 seconds, and all of the available metadata is then available in Avid. Using batch import takes the same amount of time as using direct import. So why would one not do that?


Totally agree.

Metacheater is the way to go on this one. Generate the ALE and point it at the QT's on import.
Done.
Tested and it works.

David

[Nigel Stanford]

Yes. Still working all the details as far as which timecode at what rate in which project type as well as defining a source ID, but at the very least a timecode.

Michael

Praise be! Now the question is, which timecode... :) I'd vote edgecode but then I'm recording sound to the camera.

[MichaelP]

Are both timecodes in the QT? I just did a quick export from REDrushes and while I can choose to use TOD or edgecode, there only seems to be one or the other in the QT file itself. At least using REDrushes you can choose what the timecode should be beforehand -

Michael

[Dylan Reeve]

I find a great deal of usefulness in the CSV export from REDline. I can't see a clear way to add TC to existing clips with it, but it'd give you all the information you need at the very least.

[Nigel Stanford]

Am I being naive in pointing out that since Metacheater is free, and freely available, there is no reason to do this in the first place? Making an ALE using Metacheater takes about 15 seconds, and all of the available metadata is then available in Avid. Using batch import takes the same amount of time as using direct import. So why would one not do that?

Yes, metacheater is the way, and what we do in our workflow. The question was, if someone has not used metacheater, and has already made a cut, what advice can we offer them...

[Jörgen Persson]

Greg, I believe you got it right. Avid import TC minus 1 hour = Red Edgecode.

The problem is, each clip doesn't start at 01:00:00:00
Each REEL starts at 01:00:00:00.

[Miguel "Macgregor" De Olaso]

You mean if you export into DNxHD codec trhought redcine Avid will be able to read the timecode?

[MichaelP]

That is one way since RedCine inserts the time of day timecode into the QT/

Michael

[Miguel "Macgregor" De Olaso]

And edge code can be insterted too?
So using DHxND from redcine means we don´t need metacheater?

[Mark L. Pederson]

http://opencubetech.com/rub13/MXF%20Software

[MichaelP]

And edge code can be insterted too?
So using DHxND from redcine means we don´t need metacheater?

REDCINE can insert TOD into the QT wrapped DNxHD 175/180 when created. It does not insert edgecode. Also, Avid does not yet read timecode from QT wrappers. That is slated for an upcoming release. For now metadata from REDcine is done via MetaCheater on the resulting QT files, or saving the REDCINE project as XML and using the XML to ALE XSLT file as describe on www.avid.com/red - just keep in mind that REDCINE does not export edgecode either in the XML at this time. As far as I know, only REDrushes captures and logs both into an ALE at this time.

Michael

[Nick Shaw]

Are both timecodes in theQT?

The proxies have two QT timecode tracks in them

[MichaelP]

Thanks Nick - For now we are relying on REDCINE, REDrushes, and MetaCheater for metadata extraction -

Michael