RED RAY no longer EARLY 2009?

[Casey Green]

Just noticed on the RED Website that RED RAY is no longer listed as "EARLY 2009". It now is just "2009".

Does this have to do with the DSMC announcement? Can someone fill us in if the RED RAY is going through changes?

[Manfred Lopez]

I'm still waiting for the promised 4k displays announced back in 2007 (I think). Does anyone know if they are still in Red's plans or have they been dropped?

[fde101]

It was changed before the DSMC announcement; I noticed and posted something in Scarletuser about it...

[Stephen Gentle]

I'm still waiting for the promised 4k displays announced back in 2007 (I think). Does anyone know if they are still in Red's plans or have they been dropped?

True - I was really hoping they would make some nice cheap projectors...

[MikeHedge]

any news? we are planning on doing a 4K theatrical tour using the RED RAY starting in August 2009.

Mike
www.asthedustsettles.com

[Steve Sherrick]

I'm still waiting for the promised 4k displays announced back in 2007 (I think). Does anyone know if they are still in Red's plans or have they been dropped?

Not in the near future, unless that has changed and is part of the announcement on the 13th.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I'm sure they're still planned... I don't expect announcements for everything on the 13th. After all, they have to save something for NAB.

[Craig Bowman]

I'm still waiting for the promised 4k displays announced back in 2007 (I think). Does anyone know if they are still in Red's plans or have they been dropped?

Jim announced a long long time ago these were cancelled.

[Michael Ragen]

Jim just said on another forum it is still planned for O9 and to expect info after the 1st.

[Meryem Ersoz]

he was referring to RED RAY in '09, not the 4K displays...

[Joseph Ward]

Jim announced a long long time ago these were cancelled.

The displays yes, but no word on 4k projectors:whistling:

[Joseph Ward]

Just noticed on the RED Website that RED RAY is no longer listed as "EARLY 2009". It now is just "2009".

Does this have to do with the DSMC announcement? Can someone fill us in if the RED RAY is going through changes?

Has 4K Red Ray changed as well?

[GENERATION 4K]

I think it is not so easy to enter the market with a cheap (or cheaper) 4K projector as it was to enter it with the camera REDONE. If Sony or any other professional could build one for less the 120k, they would do it. My last hope for a cheaper one was at the IBC in Amsterdam as I think JVC annouced a projector, but it ended up to be only a little bit lower pricelevel. So I think RED RAY will be presented, when the price is on level to attack the market like it was with the REDONE against the ARRI D20 or SONY.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I don't think a 4K projector should be as expensive as they currently are. But I'm sure there are plenty of challenges. I have not given up hope that RED will deliver 4K projectors at some point... Or 4K displays. Seriously, I would like the link to Jim's statement saying that they were cancelled because I don't recall that.

The way RED Ray was being promoted at NAB '08 and as enthusiastic as Jim seemed about it, I have a hard time believing that they will just wait for the rest of the market to make affordable displays and projectors to work with it.

[Mark B.]

I think it is not so easy to enter the market with a cheap (or cheaper) 4K projector as it was to enter it with the camera REDONE. If Sony or any other professional could build one for less the 120k, they would do it. My last hope for a cheaper one was at the IBC in Amsterdam as I think JVC annouced a projector, but it ended up to be only a little bit lower pricelevel. So I think RED RAY will be presented, when the price is on level to attack the market like it was with the REDONE against the ARRI D20 or SONY.

4k projectors aren't expensive to build, but as long as there is high demand in the markets (movie houses) then the projector manufacturers will milk those consumers for whatever they can get. The same thing is being done with holographic storage at the moment... cheap to make, but very expensive because a few people are willing to pay high prices for it. Once people are no longer willing to pay the high prices, then the prices will drop a little. And it will continue like that until there is more competition, and there won't be much competition for some time because most likely there are silly little patents preventing smaller companies from entering the competing in the market. We live in a monopolistic world and that's why everything is so expensive.

[Craig Bowman]

I don't think a 4K projector should be as expensive as they currently are. But I'm sure there are plenty of challenges. I have not given up hope that RED will deliver 4K projectors at some point... Or 4K displays. Seriously, I would like the link to Jim's statement saying that they were cancelled because I don't recall that.

The way RED Ray was being promoted at NAB '08 and as enthusiastic as Jim seemed about it, I have a hard time believing that they will just wait for the rest of the market to make affordable displays and projectors to work with it.

The display stuff has come up before in this forum.

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=14025

Look at last posting under 1.

[Joseph Ward]

I don't think a 4K projector should be as expensive as they currently are. But I'm sure there are plenty of challenges. I have not given up hope that RED will deliver 4K projectors at some point... Or 4K displays. Seriously, I would like the link to Jim's statement saying that they were cancelled because I don't recall that.

The way RED Ray was being promoted at NAB '08 and as enthusiastic as Jim seemed about it, I have a hard time believing that they will just wait for the rest of the market to make affordable displays and projectors to work with it.

I'm still looking for Red 4k Displays not making them because of all the choices?

But here is the old Red making them.

We are very happy to hear Panasonic and Sony announce their 4K displays at CES today. That allows us to finally announce that RED has been developing for release a 4K delivery system.

We have been committed to 4K from day one. It has always been our vision to see 4K in the home as well as on the big screen. We always believed that 1080P was a stop-gap along the way to 4K.

We will be announcing details of the RED 4K Delivery system at NAB in April.

Jim
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7390
http://reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=29769&postcount=47
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=29769&highlight=displays#post29769
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=28396&highlight=displays#post28396

[Joseph Ward]

Seriously, I would like the link to Jim's statement saying that they were cancelled because I don't recall that.

The way RED Ray was being promoted at NAB '08 and as enthusiastic as Jim seemed about it, I have a hard time believing that they will just wait for the rest of the market to make affordable displays and projectors to work with it.

I couldn't find anything about Red not making 4k Displays after NAB 2008? I remember reading that Red would not make 4k displays because of the many choices. Maybe it was on Reduser or Scarletuser? I and others did not read or hear about Red not making any 4k Projectors!

I wish Red would at least state if they have given up on making 4K Projectors. Like they did with the Red Matte Box, or not making RAW for RedOne right now.:biggrin:

If any of you guys find a link of Red not making 4k Displays, 4k Projectors, Quad HD Monitors, UHD Displays, ect. please link them.
Thanks!

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Ayoji, thanks for the links. But I was actually asking for a link or reference regarding RED NOT developing 4K display systems. It seems some people are claiming that RED is no longer working on developing 4K displays, but I don't recall any such announcement from RED. EDIT> Ah, looks like you're looking for the same information as me. :)

Craig, I'm aware of that thread. But it's just hearsay. I haven't seen any official statement from RED. And at NAB, Jim still mentioned upcoming RED 4K display systems (implying monitors and/or projectors) when I spoke with him about RED RAY.

[Jarred Land]

We kinda have our hands full right now...

[Martin Weiss]

Apropos hands full

Understatement

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Understatement is a form of speech in which a lesser expression is used than what would be expected. This is not to be confused with euphemism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphemism), where a polite phrase is used in place of a harsher or more offensive expression.
Understatement is a staple of humor in English-speaking cultures, especially in British humour (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_humour). For example, in Monty Python's The Meaning of Life (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Python%27s_The_Meaning_of_Life), a suburban dinner party is invaded by Death, who wears a long black cloak and carries a scythe. He is the Grim Reaper (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grim_Reaper); the party is over; the guests must all go with him. "Well," says one party guest, "that's cast rather a gloom over the evening, hasn't it?" In another scene, an Army officer has just lost his leg. When asked how he feels, he looks down at his bloody stump and responds, "Stings a bit."

Notable historic examples

Event: The well-known Victorian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victorian_era) critique of Cleopatra's behavior (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleopatra): "So unlike the home life of our own dear Queen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Queen_Victoria)!"
Event: Emperor Hirohito of Japan, discussing the atomic bombing of Hiroshima (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_bombing_of_Hiroshima) in his first radio broadcast (15 August 1945). Comment: "The war situation has developed not necessarily to Japan’s advantage."
Event: During the Kuala Lumpur to Perth leg of British Airways Flight 9 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_9) on 24 June (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_24) 1982 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1982), volcanic ash (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volcanic_ash) causes all four engines of the Boeing 747 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_747) aircraft to fail. Although pressed for time as the aircraft rapidly lost altitude, Captain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain#Civil_Aviation) Eric Moody still managed to make an announcement to the passengers. Comment: "Ladies and Gentlemen, this is your Captain speaking. We have a small problem. All four engines have stopped. We are doing our damnedest to get them going again. I trust you are not in too much distress."
Event: A 2006 interview regarding current affairs in the Middle East (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East) with the Egyptian Foreign Minister. Comment by the Foreign Minister: "I think there's a problem between Shias (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shi%27a_Islam) and Sunnis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sunni_Islam)". (BBC World Service (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BBC_World_Service), 23:50, Australian Eastern Standard Time, May 18 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_18), 2006 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006))
Event: In 2008 RED introduced a revolutionary line of cameras. Comment by Firechief Jarred Land: "We kinda have our hands full right now..."

[Jeff Coatney]

A few sayings spring to mind: "I" before "E", except after "C"; Form follows function; and now Acquisition before Exhibition. Red Ray is getting an UPGRAYYED! There's 6K cameras on the horizon.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

We kinda have our hands full right now...

Now that the beans have spilled on the 13th, I think we all can see that.. :)

[DoubleORed]

RED RAY has been changed. It is now called RED RAY ALERT CINE COMMAND AND CONQUER (or RRACCC for short) and it is a modular system built of 100 parts which can play 4K, 2K, 1080P, 9K, 28K, 365K and ∞K depending on which model and brain you buy and in which state you live in.

[bobaandy]

∞K would probably destroy the earth and anything within a 1.21 light year radius.

[Joseph Ward]

Maybe Red Ray should use violet lasers or go to ultraviolet, x-ray, gamma rays! :sarcasm: With the 617 coming out you never know. :)

[Zach Swena]

give them a break!!!!!!!!

They have come out with a lot of new ideas with this modular scarlet/epic stuff!!!!!!!

They probably now have to sit back and figure out where all this display/projector/Red Ray stuff will fit into the ecosystem with all the new 3k, 4.5k, 5k, 6k, 9k, and 28k stuff. And rightly so.

Let them sit on this one for a while.

[Joseph Ward]

give them a break!!!!!!!!

They have come out with a lot of new ideas with this modular scarlet/epic stuff!!!!!!!

They probably now have to sit back and figure out where all this display/projector/Red Ray stuff will fit into the ecosystem with all the new 3k, 4.5k, 5k, 6k, 9k, and 28k stuff. And rightly so.

Let them sit on this one for a while.

It was a joke.:glare:

[MikeHedge]

any news?

[Casey Green]

I'm still hoping to see some news on the plans and specs for the updated REDRAY.

I realize that RED's definitely "got their hands full" :-) , but if REDRAY is going through changes, it would be cool to have the same opportunity to give feedback about the design during the early development phase.

I imagine it is probably getting a bit lower priority with all of the DSMC and Mysterium-X work going on, but this is a product that can be very useful RIGHT NOW for RED1 users.

Having the ability to play 4K clips off of a low cost device to a 1080p monitor on set would be HUGE. Let alone the other functionality you would get with it's feature set.

[Jarred Land]

oh don't worry... REDRAY development is very active inside RED.. quite a number of hours every day go towards it.

For some reason around here it doesn't seem like big news... at least not alot of people talking about it.

When you really look at it from 30,000 feet, it's not alot different then the cameras, in an odd kinda way.

[Emmanuel Cambier]

oh don't worry... REDRAY development is very active inside RED.. quite a number of hours every day go towards it.

For some reason around here it doesn't seem like big news... at least not alot of people talking about it.

When you really look at it from 30,000 feet, it's not alot different then the cameras, in an odd kinda way.

Well… just give me just a tiny bit of information to work with and I'll make it real big news for ya.:biggrin:

Emmanuel

[Joseph Ward]

When you really look at it from 30,000 feet, it's not alot different then the cameras, in an odd kinda way.

Does that mean RedRay VTR is modular also and can be used at the same time with the Brains capturing on the fly? :devil:

[Casey Green]

oh don't worry... REDRAY development is very active inside RED.. quite a number of hours every day go towards it.

For some reason around here it doesn't seem like big news... at least not alot of people talking about it.

When you really look at it from 30,000 feet, it's not alot different then the cameras, in an odd kinda way.

Very cool. Glad to hear it is moving right along.

So, any chance of getting some updated specs or design changes? hehehe

[Tony Lorentzen]

I remember something about 4K displays and projectors also being announced at the time Redray was announced. What's the news about that?

[Tim Hole]

I'm happy for them to just concentrate on the cameras at the moment but I will be wanting a RED_RAY at some point...and as for a 4K projector well...

[Jared Caldwell]

I remember something about 4K displays and projectors also being announced at the time Redray was announced. What's the news about that?

I don't actually remember projectors and displays being confirmed, but please point it out if I am wrong (i would love a 4k projector!) :}

[Jeff Kilgroe]

The most that has ever been "confirmed" about displays and projectors was during NAB '07. When RED was said to be developing their own 4K display and projector offerings. I don't think we have heard a peep about it since. I would like to think that they are working on such things, but I think they have their hands more than full just with camera stuff.

[Casey Green]

The most that has ever been "confirmed" about displays and projectors was during NAB '07. When RED was said to be developing their own 4K display and projector offerings. I don't think we have heard a peep about it since. I would like to think that they are working on such things, but I think they have their hands more than full just with camera stuff.

Yeah, I tend to believe that 4K Displays and Projectors got pushed WAY down on the priorities list, which is fine by me if they need those resources to get DSMC and REDRAY out the door.

Remember, back at that NAB '07, Scarlet was also announced as a Pocket Camera. :-)

[Emmanuel Cambier]

Remember, back at that NAB '07, Scarlet was also announced as a Pocket Camera. :-)

It turns out it was a bloody scam…damnit

Emmanuel

[Joseph Ward]

The most that has ever been "confirmed" about displays and projectors was during NAB '07. When RED was said to be developing their own 4K display and projector offerings. I don't think we have heard a peep about it since. I would like to think that they are working on such things, but I think they have their hands more than full just with camera stuff.



http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7390
http://reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=29769&postcount=47
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=29769&highlight=displays#post29769
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=28396&highlight=displays#post28396

For all those unbelievers! :innocent:

[Patrick Tresch]

For all those unbelievers! :innocent:

I'm not less sceptical now... I would love to see what was announced.

Patrick

[Seán_T]

Thats good to hear. If it allows the myriad of ancient auld avids out there that haven't been upgraded in years to capture sdi/hdsdi over 422 directly from r3d files then its definitely big news.


oh don't worry... REDRAY development is very active inside RED.. quite a number of hours every day go towards it.

For some reason around here it doesn't seem like big news... at least not alot of people talking about it.

When you really look at it from 30,000 feet, it's not alot different then the cameras, in an odd kinda way.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I'm not less sceptical now... I would love to see what was announced.

The links that Joseph posted are all that was ever announced. NAB '07 "4K display and projector program" announced. No official word on that since then. In november, '07, Jim announced a "4K delivery system". Most of us assumed that involved 4K display[s] and/or projector[s] that were vaguely announced about 7 months prior at NAB. In April of '08 a few months later at NAB, RED's 4K delivery system was unveiled -- RED RAY.

[Jeff Coatney]

Displays require standardized signal resolutions that are long-term (future-proof to an extent) and stable. While I can see Red creating monitors and projectors in the future for professional grading use and exhibition, it seems pre-mature for them to announce displays while they're still building new cameras. I'd look for the 28K projector to be first out of the gate, since that seems to be the ceiling for now. There are very capable systems that do the job at 2K and 4k, but the price-scale is totally out of whack for real meaningful market penetration. The high-end of the display market will be "flexible" for awhile while Jim is making new formats for exhibition. When Jim decides camera resolution can plateau, he will be able to step into the display and exhibition sector and define it for a while. Red will have that kind of market leverage very soon, and Jim knows how to protect his products in the market. It is interesting to point out that the scale of Red's operation appeared to be liability two years ago. Now it is a primary advantage in the current business climate.

[Joseph Ward]

Love to stir the pot some times but... Anyone with Red saying they wont, list a link. Haven't heard, an official No, Red will never make them(Projectors), like they did with the Red Matte Boxes. I know they probably wont do this until all the Scarlets and Epics are out and RedRay or if they officially say otherwise. Cant imagine a new business making so many products come out right away.

[John Caballero]

Welcome back to reality folks. It ain't magical. You can draw and say anything but technolgy takes more than that. Ask Canon, Panasonic, et. all. They would agree.

[Milan Nikolic]

I do not think that we will see Red 4K projectors or monitors because it will be diversion from the most important line of divelopment: to produce the best and least expenssive cinema digital cameras. There are JVC, Sony and especially Samsung that
will deliver 4K projectors and monitors for the price.

[Joseph Ward]

New update on Red Projector and/or Monitor Display

http://reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=595912&postcount=547

Laser Projector! 4-13-2011
http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?57661-Official-NAB-announcements...

[Kaku Ito]

Jim mentioned some RED RAY prototypes are out in the field. Good to hear it is still going.

[Wayne Morellini]

So, when is it going to be released and how does it work?

[Petr Dvorak]

Ted is talking on about this summer
at 5:00
http://vimeo.com/22274762

another uncertain info from recon NAB thread '$1,000 and available at the end of the year' ... nothing official yet

[Mike 'Fireman' Ross]

So, when is it going to be released and how does it work?

How it works is somewhat confidential I think... at the RED booth I was told the pro version of RAY would be going on sale in 4-8 weeks from now, priced at $7,500. The prosumer version: target $1,000, end of this year.

E&OE

Mike

[Stuart English]

Yes, the RED RAY PRO units at the show are pilot-production units. When demonstrating one of these units today, I think everyone was taken aback by just how good even a 1080p monitor (and hence a 1080p projector) looks when fed from a RED RAY 4K source image. So while it undoubtedly looks best in true 4K resolution, even existing moderately priced 1080p resolution displays really shine. That's the advantage of high bit depth, wide color gamut and over-sampled source material - these characteristics put Blue-ray and OTA HD broadcast to shame. And all at lower bit rate than DV or HDV or Blue-ray too :-)

[Jake Bastian]

Yes, the RED RAY PRO units at that show are pre-production units. Demonstrating one of those today I think everyone was taken aback by just how fantastic even a 1080p monitor (and hence a 1080p projector) looks when fed a 4K source image. So while it looks best in true 4K resolution, even existing moderately priced 1080p display technologies really shine.

I know you guys aren't talking about this stuff until it's ready for release, but I really hope you guys licence this technology out so consumers can have 4K players in their homes. I've been holding off buying too many BluRays in the hopes that I'll soon be able to build up a sweet collection of movies on SSDs that will play in my home in UHD.

[Stuart English]

I can't talk to the first part of your question, but we absolutely do want to bringing this 4K technology into home theaters as well as all forms of public auditauriums.

Change your thinking from SSD to SD though, these files are small.

[Jake Bastian]

Change your thinking from SSD to SD though, these files are small.

Even better! You just made my night :)

[Stuart English]

Everyone at NAB should see this demo, it is mind-blowing you get this image quality at a bit rate below DV or HDV

[Petr Dvorak]

more about audio


Correct, up to 7.1 Channels on the consumer player. And up to 12 Channels on the pro version.

The final "movie" file size is quite small as the average RED RAY 4K data rate is only 20 Mbit /sec

http://reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?55503-New-RedRay-bitrate&p=751704&viewfull=1#post751704