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Rob Martin
09-22-2008, 06:13 PM
All of this is surely interesting

Jim announces a DSMC

Nikon has a wobbly D90

Sony puts up an "OK" 24MP DSLR

Canon announces a 5DII (Which Jim already had, per his dropping of the 1080p bomb)

Jim announces that Scarlet is not Scarlet II before being released

Leica comes out and puts the Megapixel race squarely in the spotlight by betting the house on a long shot . . .

Interesting times.

Rob

Eric Lange
09-22-2008, 06:40 PM
I just saw the new Leica S DSLR about a couple of hours ago.

Its a new format all of its own, new lenses everything!. The sensor is 37.5 MP, dimensions 35 x 45mm.

According to my math that make s it 5400 pixels 6950, or roughly 5.4k x 7k. That makes the pixel size roughly 6.4 micron.

Special processing (double the speed) and also dual shuttering, in the lens as well as the focal plane(ish).

The camera claims to be smaller and lighter than a regular all metal SLR. The lenses are designed with new image circles to best accommodate the format. I.e. half way house between medium format and 35mm format lenses.

Pretty stunning, oh and they have announced a new strategic alliance with Phase One.

Here’s the link (hope it works) www.s.leica-camera.com/

Given the alliance with Phase One and the prices of their lower res digital backs,

does anyone want to start a book for how much this new beasty is going to cost.

I say 2-1 odds $12-15K

Thomas Dobbie
09-23-2008, 03:15 AM
I'd say quite a lot more than $15K US.
I cant remember for sure,but I think my R9 DMR combination was around 7.5K GDP when I bought it,and an M8 outfit with a both Tri-Elmar's is 8.5K GDP.
I also use the Phase one P45+ which was around 20K GDP just over 2 years ago.
Leica and Phase One certainly know how to charge,so I would put a price of about 15K GDP which is probably $25K US,and there won't be many lenses under $5K US judging by the current prices on R&M lenses.
They seem to be targeting the high end advertising photographer, but there are also a load of very wealthy amateur's and Leica collectors who will buy it and keep it shrink wrapped.
However both companies make superb products which IMHO outperform anything else in the market. They haven't released much detail yet,so it will be interesting to see if the sensor is based on the P45+ or if it's part of the new generation chips from the collaboration with DALSA.
One thing is for sure,it will walk all over the offerings from Nikon & Canon.
It'll be interesting to see what RED have to offer,Leica have just raised the bar in DSLR's,but I bet Red already new that.
I'll almost certainly buy one,but not just yet,I've got 2 RED Ones on order,and to pay for first.

Tom.

Benni Diez
09-23-2008, 06:01 AM
"The S2 will retail at around €20,000 (body-only), and is aimed primarily at fashion and commercial shooters who want medium format quality combined with a DSLR's speed and versatility."

Other, cheaper and smaller versions will follow according to the article.

http://www.bjp-online.com/public/showPage.html?page=816234

Eric Lange
09-23-2008, 06:40 AM
"The S2 will retail at around €20,000 (body-only), and is aimed primarily at fashion and commercial shooters who want medium format quality combined with a DSLR's speed and versatility."

Other, cheaper and smaller versions will follow according to the article.

http://www.bjp-online.com/public/showPage.html?page=816234

(thanks for the link)
Hey Benni, we seem to be hanging around the same threads, are you able to go to Photokina (given that you are in KOlne)?

Cheers,


Eric

Sanjin Jukic
09-23-2008, 06:50 AM
http://a.img-dpreview.com/news/0809/Leica/LEICA_S2.jpg
http://a.img-dpreview.com/news/0809/Leica/LEICA_S2_back.jpg

The LEICA S2 sensor sized 37.5-megapixel, 30 x 45 mm is called MAESTRO.

Eric Lange
09-23-2008, 07:08 AM
I'd say quite a lot more than $15K US.
I cant remember for sure,but I think my R9 DMR combination was around 7.5K GDP when I bought it,and an M8 outfit with a both Tri-Elmar's is 8.5K GDP.
I also use the Phase one P45+ which was around 20K GDP just over 2 years ago.
Leica and Phase One certainly know how to charge,so I would put a price of about 15K GDP which is probably $25K US,and there won't be many lenses under $5K US judging by the current prices on R&M lenses.
They seem to be targeting the high end advertising photographer, but there are also a load of very wealthy amateur's and Leica collectors who will buy it and keep it shrink wrapped.
However both companies make superb products which IMHO outperform anything else in the market. They haven't released much detail yet,so it will be interesting to see if the sensor is based on the P45+ or if it's part of the new generation chips from the collaboration with DALSA.
One thing is for sure,it will walk all over the offerings from Nikon & Canon.
It'll be interesting to see what RED have to offer,Leica have just raised the bar in DSLR's,but I bet Red already new that.
I'll almost certainly buy one,but not just yet,I've got 2 RED Ones on order,and to pay for first.

Tom.

Yes I think you and Benni are right, I was being rather optimistic about price, but wondered if that would interfere with the Phase One backs price structure?

We have been designing around the Leaf digital backs for high precision 3d acquisition system HW and SW. We felt the Leaf had a more favorable price point (at least for us or our customers),

do you have anything good or bad to say about the Leaf?

Things are difficult for us as we have been designing around 28MP Leaf backs and now 21MP Canons come out for vastly less. We will try to encourage our customers to go to 50+MP backs but this unbalances the over all price structure of the HW and SW we are offering. Canon DSLR form factor is very difficult/awkward to design around as compared to a digital back for our applications. This is why I am hoping the new DSMC/SCARLET/EPIC(s) will be of a block like form factor for third party camera development (hope against hope…).

Thomas Dobbie
09-23-2008, 08:56 AM
Hi Eric,
I haven't used any of their recent offerings,I did some test's with a triple exposure Leaf back many years ago,bolted onto a Sinar P2 with the old Sinar tricolour shutter,three separate exposures for RGB.
It was a bit of a pig to use,and only of any use for still life,but I remember the results were very impressive.
I'm sure things have changed quite a bit since then,I haven't kept up with what's happening at Leaf.
I think the thing that gave Phase One the edge,at least for me,was the Capture One software and workflow. The Imacon/Hasselblad back is I understand, essentially the same Kodak sensor,but it suffered from clunky software/workflow,Flexcolour,although I'm told by colleagues that the new Phocus software and workflow are extremely good. Hasselblad having produced some real dogs of cameras with the early H series,seem to have got it right at last.
I'm not a big fan of Canon or Nikon full frame sensors,yes they have great dynamic range and are virtually noise free,but the results looks over processed to my eye. even the lower end MF backs give what I think are better results.
These are interesting times, I'm not sure where we will end up,and RED could completely change the game,but I think for the time being MF backs are still the way to go if you want the best quality.
I must say that the images the R9 DMR and M8 produce are quite exceptional,I think it's the lenses,but somehow Leica have managed to give them more soul,especially the M8, it'll be interesting to see if they can do the same thing with the S2.
Just my point of view,I'm sure there are many on this forum who will disagree with me.
Tom.

Benni Diez
09-23-2008, 02:34 PM
are you able to go to Photokina (given that you are in KOlne)?

Cheers,


Eric

I was thinking about it, but I'm too busy right now. And Red isn't there. :)

Joseph Ward
09-26-2008, 04:38 PM
I haven't heard why this is better other than more MP?:mellow:

filip kovcin
09-26-2008, 04:46 PM
well, check new hasselblad:

Hasselblad H3DII-50 SLR Digital Camera
50 Megapixel Resolution36 x 48mm Image Sensor

not bad...

Joseph Ward
09-26-2008, 05:03 PM
I know MP or Resolution is better but I think, even with the best tech to go with it(computer, memory, ect), the eye/brain can only see so much. That being said give me a ''1000MP/100K Movie Resolution'' CAMERA.:)