A suggestion for RED test

[Tom Lowe]

If this is already in the works, forgive me.

Why not set up a really nice test shoot with an experienced, Oscar-caliber DP to shoot some beautiful scenes under ideal conditions? The PJ shoot was obviously spur of the moment, under tough conditions, which in itself is a great test. The milk girls were okay, but nothing special, IMO. Stump shot some charts and mundane stuff indoors.

Why not show the world what this son of a bitch can really do?

My suggestion: Invite (and pay if you need to) a cinematography legend like John Toll or Vittorio Storaro, grab a couple of actors, and turn them loose in some beautiful locations up in the mountains or on the beaches down near Cabo, or Hawaii or whatever. You only need 2 or 3 minutes of footage; edit it with some beautiful music and release it in 1080p.

That's how you inspire people!

[David Mullen ASC]

I don't know, I've seen enough pretty demo films over the decade from Kodak and Fuji, etc. It's become expected that a demo look gorgeous, therefore people take them with a grain of salt. I see these demos and mostly all I can think of is how talented the DP is or how gorgeous the location or the female model is.

Personally, what I want to see are some boring resolution charts comparing the RED image to a 4K scan of 35mm Kodak Vision-2 5212 (the sharpest color negative stock) and 5218 (the fastest.) Maybe split-screened, and then transferred to 35mm or projected in 4K. I'd also like to see some boring over and underexposure tests, some lighting contrast tests, and some low-light candlelight/flashlight/city streetlight tests, all side-by-side with a 35mm camera. With the same lenses, just to eliminate that variable.

Not that I think that RED has to match 35mm perfectly either, but it would give me a frame of reference as to what to expect when I shoot for theatrical projection.

[Gunleik Groven]

All with mr Mullen here...

As long as the PJ movie is released -;)

Gunleik

[Craig Schober]

with red, it's about the story behind the story. no one needs to see pretty scenery or models. you can get that with 35mm. what dps and directors and studios need to see is red help tell a story. but not just any story because again, any 35mm cam can do that. red should be used as an integral part of a low budget indy film by a big name director like soderbergh. he's just experimental enough and just talented enough to make the most out of the least. i'm not implying that red is anything less than the best but imagine a high concept and great looking indy film shot on a shoestring budget. what other film could claim that? now with red you can.

[donatello b]

IMO studio beauty shots will look good on ANY camera ...
any DP will light for the camera their using for beauty shots - if the camera has a 5 stop range you light for it- if 10 stops you light for it ...
the PJ short showed me more then most beauty shot test could show ...

from here out i'll look at whatever test show up but i'll have to do my own tests to really see how it works for me ...

[Ken Corben]

Lens tests - lens test -lens test!

Nikon vs Canon vs PL cine style lenses using charts under controlled lighting from WFO under to f8 over.

John Toll could make Hi-8 look good.

Did I mention Lens tests?

[Tom Lowe]

Lol, so you guys aren't interested in seeing what kind of awesome imagery this thing can produce?? That's like being handed the keys to a Ferrari and wanting to run diagnostics tests on it all day.

[Alexander Nikishin]

Personally, what I want to see are some boring resolution charts comparing the RED image to a 4K scan of 35mm Kodak Vision-2 5212 (the sharpest color negative stock) and 5218 (the fastest.) .

Well David, I've got access to the #40 camera, let's have ourselves some fun doing boring tests! :sorcerer:

[Ken Corben]

Lol, so you guys aren't interested in seeing what kind of awesome imagery this thing can produce?? That's like being handed the keys to a Ferrari and wanting to run diagnostics tests on it all day.

Tom,

Did you see the NAB screening? That was awesome imagery, no? Hell, your RED #400 so we'll get to see your awesome imagery by Fall? I'm saying I want to know, by seeing for myself, if the SLR glass solution really works in 4K in side by side comparison to other glass options viewed on HD monitors and projected digitally to be followed by the 35mm film out projection viewing. TEST-TEST-TEST before you take the Ferrari out for an expensive spin out...

Armed with this information I can then make prudent choices.

[Steve Sherrick]

Tom , have you seen the demo yet? That was all I needed to see what the camera was capable of. Now I want to see the kind of stuff David is talking about, and of course run my own tests, because I'm not John Toll or Vittorio Storaro, so I'm a good real world test.

Steve

[I Bloom]

I think RED should hire David Mullen to shoot some tests. I'm not kidding. I had that chance to meet him when I got to visit the ASC clubhouse but before I met him I knew him from his helpful presence on the internet. His films look great and he also has strong indie/lower budget roots. He was an early adopter of HD for narrative filmmaking (to my knowledge) while still a successful 35mm DP. I can't think of anyone who the RED community is going to look to more for a trustworthy 3rd party assesment. Jim and Ted please talk to David.

IB

[Jannard]

I am in the air headed to Prague with "Boris" (Alpha) and two Beta cameras, "Penny" and "Bombay" to do some testing for the movie "Wanted".

Jim

[Tom Lowe]

Yeah, I'd love to see what David could shoot with it!

I haven't seen the PJ footage, but I understand the the camera was not operating under ideal conditions. With all the current talk about dynamic range and number of stops, I figured a new test under ideal conditions is still the one thing missing. Just an idea.

[Jannard]

I think RED should hire David Mullen to shoot some tests. I'm not kidding. I had that chance to meet him when I got to visit the ASC clubhouse but before I met him I knew him from his helpful presence on the internet. His films look great and he also has strong indie/lower budget roots. He was an early adopter of HD for narrative filmmaking (to my knowledge) while still a successful 35mm DP. I can't think of anyone who the RED community is going to look to more for a trustworthy 3rd party assesment. Jim and Ted please talk to David.

IB

I made a personal invitation to David Mullen to come to RED and shoot footage a few weeks ago. He was too busy at that time. Maybe he can find time in his schedule when we get back from Prague. I also have an open invitation for David Stump to come back to RED and test the newer prototypes.

Jim

[Tom Lowe]

I am in the air headed to Prague with "Boris" (Alpha) and two Beta cameras, "Penny" and "Bombay" to do some testing for the movie "Wanted".

Jim

Jim, who's DPing that, if you're allowed to say? IMDB doesn't list a DP.

[Steve Sherrick]

Not operating under ideal conditions is what had me most inspired by the camera. They basically were very limited, yet came up with very nice looking footage. I would imagine it's only up from there.

What a presentation by the Red guys. You really had to be there to understand the buzz that was flying around NAB.

Steve

[Ken Corben]

So much for the bimbos on the beach in Cabo idea :-)

You know Jim could have left Thursday night for Prague to shoot yet another mind blowing series of RED camera tests - LOL. Man is that inspiring or what? Mad genius really.

[kiwired]

just for your info, richard bluck is an oscar quality DP, not that it really means anything. he dp'd and operated a fair bit of lotr and kong a well as many others. also a camera test under tough conditions is far more telling than one under nice ones!

[Brook Willard]

I am in the air headed to Prague with "Boris" (Alpha) and two Beta cameras, "Penny" and "Bombay" to do some testing for the movie "Wanted".

Jim
Man, tough life... :tongue:

I kid, I kid. Can't wait to hear about it - if you're able to talk about it - when you get back.

[Ken Corben]

Who sits on the RED brainstorming panels - is there anything they have missed?

[Ralph Oshiro]

So much for the bimbos on the beach in Cabo idea . . .
When my RED ships, I'm all for shooting bimbos on the beach! In fact, I plan to make it my specialty!

But seriously (not that I'm NOT serious about the above), I would love to see some night interiors. Some MTV-ish, highly saturated, ultra-contrasty lighting. All keys on subjects, as hard 3/4-backs. Like Xenon-hard. Like 400fcs on the subject's backside, and 40fcs of bounce fill. You know, "crunchy" lighting. I'd also like to see the lens pointed at the sun. CMOS imagers don't have the vertical smear problems of CCDs, right? I LOVE shooting into light sources! Have fun in Prague, Jim!

[Ken Corben]

Ralph Oshiro the new Joe Francis - girls gone wild in HD-DVD - LOL.

Great ideas on lighting TESTS, that is what I want to see - personally - TESTS

and oh ya, Ralph shooting 4K redcode RAW for his new HD-DVD series :-)

[Drew Mylrea]

Jim, on a plane to Prauge... wow. You are so COOL. This whole thing is so coool.

[Ralph Oshiro]

Ralph Oshiro the new Joe Francis - girls gone wild in HD-DVD - LOL.
Yup. You and me, buddy! You for the UW photography, me for the topside stuff! Bikini girls in 4K. Who WOULDN'T watch that? I mean we watch that ultra-lame HDnet bikini crap don't we? And how lame is THAT shot!?!?!?

[Jochen Schmidt-Hambrock]

Give it to auntie Gwendoline to shoot the next family reunion.
That would take *any* camera to its limits.

;-)

Jochen

[Poi Boy]

PJ is no slouch ! more footage will really only generate grief for red because no one ever seems to be satisfied. everyone gets caught up in sunjective minutia about the grade. I would have done it this way or that way, fuck that !
I want them to spend their time getting my camera shipped.
Aloha
-A

[Poi Boy]

PJ is not exactly a slouch ! I don't care to see red shoot more show it to me footage because no one is ever satisfied. Everyone gets caught up in subjective minutia about the grade. I would have done it this way or I would have done it that way. Fuck that ! I want red to spend their time shipping my camera.
Aloha
A

[M Olsen]

I am in the air headed to Prague with "Boris" (Alpha) and two Beta cameras, "Penny" and "Bombay" to do some testing for the movie "Wanted".

Jim

He he he, had a note from a mate whom is a HOD on "Prince Caspian" currently shooting in Prague. He had a few hundred Pilsenirs the other night with the Gaffer and DP of "Wanted" and the biggest problem they are facing is no Studios as Prince Caspian" has them all. LOL. I know they are looking forward to the RED experience though and the buzz of NAB and the PJ material has filtered through to them.
But to the thread.. Red folk the enthusiasm that started this thread is great but seriously the contributions from the likes of David Mullen are very very valuable. Testing is a combination of events and with the revelations from Mr Jackson and Richie Bluck, I for one, now would look forward to a raft of very well presented analysis from some meticulously designed and executed technical tests of the RED Camera.
Not that I would necessarily understand it all but at least I would get the drift. !

[Mardi_Gras]

David, if you're reading this, Jim, in the post above, wants you to do some boring tests with the Red beast. And from the tone of other posters on this thread, there's an overwhelming concurrence to this. Please get in touch with Jim/Ted and the crew.

[Petr Dvorak]

Welcome to Praha, Jim!

[Steve Gibby]

The first non-RED Team, independent tests, of a shipping RED One camera system will be the tests in Los Angeles of my RED #8, shortly after I receive it. Word is that the camera will be enabled for 4k REDCODE RAW and 2k REDCODE RAW shooting (RGB will be added in later). After the RGB capability of the camera is added in, we'll do some follow-up RGB tests.

First let me say that the RED One camera system is flexible enough to be lensed and accessorized for a broad range of cine-style and EFP style production genres. Though it gets a lot of attention, narrative cinema is but one of many genres and sub-genres that RED One will be used for. Before the L.A. testing of RED #8 I will shoot some challenging adventure travel, action sports, and nature footage in 4k RC RAW and 2k RC RAW for analysis at the testing session.

At the testing session, at a studio in L.A. that will be disclosed after the testing, we'll put #8 through a broad range of technical tests, plus test the camera with a comprehensive array of cine lenses, 35mm still lenses, and B4 2/3" HD ENG lenses.

I’ve invited a highly experienced, eclectic mix of testers whose expertise is editing, directing, FX, DP, and cinematography. I’ll post the testing team names shortly. I've invited these particular guys because I feel they have good real world experience from a broad range of genres, and they have good objective and subjective analysis minds. Everyone will be expected to check their egos at the door - no superstar attitudes needed or wanted. There will probably be a few others invited. They can expect to hear from me shortly. It's my camera, and I will obviously have unlimited time to field test it, thus I plan to be essentially a fly on the wall for the testing, and let each of the invitees take turns testing it out. Please don't ask any of the invitees for test location info. Due to space limitations and security for the camera, they will not divulge that info. No drop ins! Each invitee will be under an NDA. They will be free to post their personal impressions of the camera and tests, but Mike Curtis will be the one to publish the test results, plus summaries of the test results will be posted here on RED User. I will also write articles for the Studio Daily web site and Studio Monthly magazine about the testing. Please don't barrage me or the test invitees with requests to be included in the testing or insider results info. The testing will take two full days. The facility that has graciously donated us studio time will be identified along with the test results.

I have a D-cinema feature and four HDTV series in development as we speak. I also have a ton of stock footage and field tests to do with #8. Nobody asked me to hold these tests. These tests were my idea, as a way of getting some independent test info out to a RED data-hungry motion media community. I was fortunate to have moved quickly in reserving my first RED camera - thus the #8 serial number. I just figured as long as I'm field-testing #8 myself, and since there’s a ton of you guys who are hungry for real world testing data on RED One, that it would be a good idea to bring in an array of other guys, test the camera, and publish the results.

[Ace]

Dont forget to shoot some of those beautiful prague women.

Gibbys post illustrates that soon enough this camera will be openly and independantly scrutinized by its toughest critics. The open critique process that RED has cultured online will no doubt continue beyond the production of the first camera.

[Milan Nikolic]

Thanks Gibby, it is great idea! We all appreciate your effort.

[Brook Willard]

Can't wait to see the results of the test, Gibby. Thanks for doing it! I know it's a huge undertaking - I can't wait to see the results.

[Ken Corben]

Wow, thanks Gibby. I know the entire GLOBAL reduser community will be very grateful for the test results and your expert commentary and opinions and also to Mike Curtis' blog report. Another ground breaking RED event that is not entirely cinema-centric for us other red users.

Offhollywood (#6 & 7) where are you?

[Steve Gibby]

My pleasure guys. It's my camera, but Mike Curtis and a bunch of other guys will be stepping up to give of their time to help test the camera. It will be a think tank situation...several good minds are always better than one. I'm looking forward to the testing, and I know the rest of the testing team is also. Hopefully it will help answer many of the remaining questions I see on this forum.

Once the testing is over I'll be putting #8 right to work on several projects and stock footage shooting. I've shared my input on RED on various RED forums for 18 months now, and you can expect me to continue to post my impressions as #8 gets used in real world production scenarios around the world. Opinions are like noses...everybody has one. But I'll share my opinions of the camera, lenses, and accessories with you in the coming months, and you can take it for what its worth...my opinion.

I'm a producer, director, and cinematographer with a very busy production schedule - that's about to get even busier. My first priority is obviously to take care of my projects and those of my clients. Beyond that I'll post what I can in my remaining time, plus write a few magazine articles here and there. I may set up a blog so that when I travel for projects, I can post my impressions of RED use, with pics from around the world. I think that would be really cool...

We're all a big worldwide RED family now, so the more networking we do the better for everyone - and RED User is a great networking source.

[Medavoym]

I am in the air headed to Prague with "Boris" (Alpha) and two Beta cameras, "Penny" and "Bombay" to do some testing for the movie "Wanted".

Jim

Funny thing, I am in the air also, travelling opposite ways, from Europe to New York. Seriously.

Mike Medavoy

[Medavoym]

Great job by the way Jim. I'm sure RED will shake the industry from the ground up. It was damn time, anyway.

Congratulations.