Dear Red chaps...please test these new CF cards!!!

[David Wyatt]

333x / 50MB/s 32GB Compact Flash cards from Pretec??!! I'm excited...

http://gizmodo.com/5053470/pretecs-stumps-up-64gb-compact-flash-card-and-100gb-worlds-largest

Let's hope they deliver what they promise - 2 of these cards give you what the Flash Drive does in terms of storage but for less than a third of the price.

[M_Sanderson]

hmm.. there go the red ram sales!!!!!!
If they work!
But a fantastic prospect

[PaulClements]

Yeah these look great, fingers crossed. Am I correct in saying that we will be able to use any compact flash card in an upcoming build? EDIT I see B17 lets us use non Red CF for 2K.

Might work at 4KHD if too slow for full, should at least work with 3K I would've thought.

Paul

[Lewis-M Soucy]

These CF cards makers should buy a Red and test their cards... It's strange none of them never ever mentionned their cards as "Red compatible" since Red has opened a whole new market for them... In any case, I go with Red cards I trust... You don' buy a Ferrari and put cheap Midas tires on it...

[Nova Invicta]

This same company are showing a 100GB CF card with the 333X / 50MBs write speed at Photokina in Germany.

[PaulClements]

These CF cards makers should buy a Red and test their cards... It's strange none of them never ever mentionned their cards as "Red compatible" since Red has opened a whole new market for them... In any case, I go with Red cards I trust... You don' buy a Ferrari and put cheap Midas tires on it...
I'd put different tyres on my ferrari if it meant I could go just as fast but for longer. With a potential 4000 Red owners requiring multiple cards I do agree there is a market there. I imagine they're looking at the new Nikon/Canon cameras with video more keenly though.

Paul

[Jay A. Kelley]

You know, perhaps I missed somethiing, but based on what I THOUGHT I read about B17 RED said it would "allow" non-RED cards to work in 2k shooting modes, but would not claim responsibility, you're on your own, blah blah blah..

Anyway my point is that this statement leads me to believe that RED has created some sort of hardware lock on it's CF Cards.

So bottom line: Fast enough or not, the card won't work. This system has been locked up and outside cards will no longer work on resolutions above 2k unless they are RED CF Cards.

Now, if I am wrong, then I am HAPPY. Cause this means once the cards are fast enough, we're good to go.

But from a business standpoint, RED has some cash invested in those 16gb cards and I would imagine they would need to move those before they would want to unlock the drive.

Remember how all this started: RED made the CF drive and then waited for cards to be fast enought... None came for a while.. So RED had to make the investment into it's own cards to make sure they worked.

As I said, I am hopeful I am wrong here, and the Drive will work with any CF Card fast enough. But if not, then what?

Jay

[Brent J. Craig]

...Anyway my point is that this statement leads me to believe that RED has created some sort of hardware lock on it's CF Cards.

I read it the same way. It would be nice to hear the official Red word on this. Let's hope they haven't gone all "Sony" on us! :-)

[Lewis-M Soucy]

I think the makers of this camera do sometimes think about all that, don't they? So if they released their cards, I doubt it's just for the fun of having more gear with their stickers on... I stick to theirs... As I am sure the minute they can make some with more capacity, they will... CF technology is more complicated than it appears... It's not just stocking data... I use a Leica, and trust me, the speed is a huge factor in the taking of the pictures, when huge files get in there, you certainly want a good card... I can "feel" the difference when I use a cheap card... But I understand the stand point of people with capacity and/or budget. Bigger and cheaper is an incentive I respect. I just don't want hassle and don't feel like experimenting... So I stick to Redz...

[Jay A. Kelley]

Well,

I want everyone to win. I want RED to make whatever it needs to in order to make their CF cards a profitable venture, AND I want to be allowed to use other cards.

I remember Jim once saying "We not like the other guys where you have to use their cards or forget it. With RED you can go to your nearest camera shop, and as long as they meet the speed requirements, you can buy some CF cards off the shelf and you're good to go".

Well it did not work out that way cause the CF manufacturers were must slower than RED thought they'd be. But now with the DSLRs getting into the "video" world, I think this will change... Really fast. (excuse the pun)

Jay

[M_Sanderson]

So bottom line: Fast enough or not, the card won't work. This system has been locked up and outside cards will no longer work on resolutions above 2k unless they are RED CF Cards.

Jay

Does this mean the 8gb lexars wont work on B17 either?:help:

[Jay A. Kelley]

Honestly, I do not know.. Gotta ask RED that one

Jay

[Stephen Pruitt]

I have been using 8gig Lexar-branded (non-RED-branded) cards on my RED all summer and they worked without a hitch. The only card that died during our film was a RED card! (Yeah, I know, the RED cards are made by Lexar.)

Now, that was on Build 15, and so I just switched to Build 17. I'll be mighty unhappy if those cards I bought won't work on Build 17 (but I know they also worked on Build 16).

FYI, we always shot RC36 at 4K 2:1 and never had a glitch (except for the shorted, dead card).

I would love to be able to buy these huge capacity cards if they work.

Stephen

[Paris Remillard]

It's entirely possible that Pretec is making the 16GB cards for Red, as well. Somebody's making them. So maybe we'll see these cards with a Red logo on them soon. Just offering a possibilty.

[Charles Angus]

I buy Apple because the system is a complete solution - all the hardware is known to play nice together. That's only a $4000 computer.

For a $17000 camera, I would think you'd want to use the hardware blessed by the manufacturer. Just common sense.

Not saying you shouldn't be allowed to use any CF, just maybe you wouldn't want to.

[Gary Ploj]

I agree with you, AngusChandler...but I would like to option if I'm in a pinch to buy from some other source of cards to continue my shoot or have alternatives...

[Nick Gardner]

Just for the record, been using Lexar 8 gig cards on release build 16, no problems.

Nick

[Gunleik Groven]

Me 2. Will test 17 today...

[Milan Nikolic]

Please, whoever have a chance to try new large capacity CF cards, try it out and report back to us. I would do that if I have chance but where I live there is no large capacity CF cards!

[Deanan]

Please, whoever have a chance to try new large capacity CF cards, try it out and report back to us. I would do that if I have chance but where I live there is no large capacity CF cards!

We tested the 24GB and 32GB Pretecs a while back and they were very slow on writes.

We're waiting to get the larger cards in. It can take many weeks to fully test the cards and even longer to get full compatibility and firmware changes rolled in.

[Anthony Gratl]

I buy Apple because the system is a complete solution - all the hardware is known to play nice together. That's only a $4000 computer.

For a $17000 camera, I would think you'd want to use the hardware blessed by the manufacturer. Just common sense.

Not saying you shouldn't be allowed to use any CF, just maybe you wouldn't want to.

not to be the fly in your statement, but do you buy apple ram or third party?

[M_Sanderson]

We tested the 24GB and 32GB Pretecs a while back and they were very slow on writes.

We're waiting to get the larger cards in. It can take many weeks to fully test the cards and even longer to get full compatibility and firmware changes rolled in.

How fast were these 24GB and 32GB cards? 300x plus? or does it need to be more once the capacity gets larger?

[PatrickW]

not to be the fly in your statement, but do you buy apple ram or third party?

Blessed by the manufacture, and blessed by the manufacturer, with a substantial price increase (that does not reflect the amount of work to test, certify, rebrand, or dip into the heavenly polls of God Water [aka Steve Job's sweat]).

[Stuart English]

I have been using 8gig Lexar-branded (non-RED-branded) cards on my RED all summer and they worked without a hitch.
I'll be mighty unhappy if those cards I bought won't work on Build 17


Those cards will continue to work just fine on Build 17.



With regard to other CF cards - the "speed" issue proves to be NOT as simple as just looking at the "X" value on the CF card sleeve.

CF manufacturer's are using a speed test that in practical application with the RED-ONE camera does not translate to reliable operation.

Some of you might feel that this is RED trying to protect our own branded CF media, but I'm just telling you the way it is.


So in Build 17, we categorize CF cards into three groups.

a) Cards that we know do not drop frames up to these maximums : 30 fps x RC 36 x 4K x 16:9

b) Cards that we know do not drop frames up to these maximums : 25 fps x RC 28 x 4K x 16:9

If a card fails to meet either criteria, the camera will report "media is not Speed Verified" and will restrict operation to these maximums : 60 fps x RC 28 x 2K x 16:9


Note: pre-Build 17 there was no 2K record to "slow" media option. Period.

[number6]

So Stuart, to take advantages of the above mentioned functions in Build 17, and assuming the individual did not plan to use the RED branded 16 GB card for full out performance, will the original CF module handle the 2K allowed recording media?

[Stuart English]

will the original CF module handle the 2K allowed recording media?

Yes, thats not a problem.

The reason for the upgraded CF module is to operate with the highest speed CF cards (i.e. RED 16GB CF)

[sander kamp]

Some of you might feel that this is RED trying to protect our own branded CF media, but I'm just telling you the way it is.

So Stuart, do you mean RED will not block other cards, even if they would work and would be cheaper than the RED ones?

[Jay A. Kelley]

That's what I am getting from Stuart's note.. Looks like I am COMPLETELY wrong....

COOL!

Jay

[M_Sanderson]

So the camera will tell you what limits you have and block you to use it above the limits, thus avoiding loss of precious frames.
If so, Nice!

[Stuart English]

So the camera will tell you what limits you have and block you to use it above the limits, thus avoiding loss of precious frames.

That is the purpose yes. We need everyone on set to have 100% confidence that the camera will record without dropped frames.

[Christopher Grant Harvey]

That is the purpose yes. We need everyone on set to have 100% confidence that the camera will record without dropped frames.

Fair enough.

If new cards come out that pass the speed/performance test then will those new cards be alllowed to record at higher quality frame rates?

[Deanan]

Fair enough.

If new cards come out that pass the speed/performance test then will those new cards be alllowed to record at higher quality frame rates?

Raw speed is only the first we do out of alot of other tests. No two CFs are built the same and while they may function fine in a still camera or a computer, realtime performance is a whole different ballgame.

The extents to which we have to test and qualify media takes a very long time. The speed part is only half the picture.

The Pretec was 46MB/s reads and about 18MB/s writes on the camera.
If a card doesn't pass the most basic tests, we don't pursue it any further.

[Peter Savage]

I remember reading a question about using slower CF cards for timelapse where the speed is much less critical. Does anyone know if it's possible to use slow cards if you are shooting say 1 fr every 5 sec? Or are fast cards a requirement?
Thanks

peter

[SandeepDey]

I need to go out and get a few of those Lexar 8GBs. Can someone please confirm I am getting the right thing, here.

Lexar 8 GB Professional 300x UDMA Compact Flash Memory Card
Mfr. Part: CF8GB300381

Thanks in advance.
-Sandeep