Red "Pocket" or RED "Mini" Camera?

[Brainstorm]

Howdy to team RED,

Rumor has it that the RED "pocket" camera you teased at NAB will actually be a RED "Compact" camera.

Obviously you're not releasing much information on this proposed development yet, but even confirming whether it's going to "pocket" or "compact" is clearly of interest to a great number of people on the board.

Clarifying this would also help a lot of people decide whether to purchase alternative compact cameras already on the market (or promised by other companies to be released in coming months), or whether to hold of such purchases for now.

Can you throw us a bone? Please!

Cheers
Brainstorm

[Michael Schrengohst]

Consider: Nikon D200 Body $1500, HVX200 about $5000, New Sony XDCAM ER $8000?, Canon HV20 $1000.......

RED "Pocket Cam" ???

Imagine if it had a 1920x1080 or 2K CMOS sensor?
Could have a Nikon or Canon mount?
Record REDCODE on your existing REDDRIVE?
Uses the same batteries as your RED?
Smaller form factor than the RED?
Even if it was $8,750......Don't you think it would be
hard for other camera makers to sell the mentioned cameras?
Maybe not the HV20. Point is, I have seen dozens of posts where
folks moving from SD to HD are now in a holding pattern.
Remember that old commercial "When EF Hutton talks, people listen"?
When JJ blogs, people read and think (speculate)

[Brainstorm]

Consider: Nikon D200 Body $1500, HVX200 about $5000, New Sony XDCAM ER $8000?, Canon HV20 $1000.......

RED "Pocket Cam" ???

Imagine if.... (speculate)

Hi Red Guy,

There are already numerous threads on the board where people are putting together a shopping list of what they want.

I'd really like it if this thread became one where team RED tell US something about what THEY'RE thinking! Even if that's only confirming if it the proposed camera will be "pocket" or "compact"!!!

Cheers
Brainstorm

P.S. I get the feeling that 'Mysterium' isn't just the name of a CMOS sensor. It's also a marketing technique!

[number6]

Hi Red Guy,

There are already numerous threads on the board where people are putting together a shopping list of what they want.

I'd really like it if this thread became one where team RED tell US something about what THEY'RE thinking! Even if that's only confirming if it the proposed camera will be "pocket" or "compact"!!!

Cheers
Brainstorm

P.S. I get the feeling that 'Mysterium' isn't just the name of a CMOS sensor. It's also a marketing technique!

Agree, Brainstorm. Maybe it would have been better to come with the smaller camera first, if there is to be one. I'm thinking a RED ONE and a RED II? should have been sold as a package, actually. 'Cause, for me anyway, I will be shooting documentary footage of the actual shoot with some sort of 1920 x 1080i camera for DVD extra. Have just taken ownership of one of the newer such cameras, and have used it only a few minutes. So far, I'm impressed. Can't just twiddle my thumb (I'm suckin' the other one) while waiting for my RED.

[Priyesh P.]

I don´t understand why they ( Red ) are so shy now on info. Red is so far ahead of the competition and have their showcase project finished, that a new, maybe even more complex system like the mini can hardly be beaten.

The 4K displays and projectors can ( in my opinion ) only be big surprises in terms of pricing ( and maybe the one or other little tech-gimmick ). But keeping back with info on the mini?
Why then release anything at all?

[Scott Webster]

I guess what everyone is waiting for is what defines a 'Pocket Camera' The logical deduction a camera small enough to fit in your pocket. Given the development of the Iconix (http://www.iconixvideo.com/)and the MicroHDTV (http://www.iis.fraunhofer.de/fhg/iis/EN/bf/bv/ksbs/microHD.jsp)

We know the options are out there for a sensor.

But given that Stuart 'Father of the DVX' English is on the team and the huge market for handycam style cameras you'd think that would be a target. maybe Red 3?

[Craig Schober]

I don´t understand why they ( Red ) are so shy now on info. Red is so far ahead of the competition and have their showcase project finished, that a new, maybe even more complex system like the mini can hardly be beaten.

The 4K displays and projectors can ( in my opinion ) only be big surprises in terms of pricing ( and maybe the one or other little tech-gimmick ). But keeping back with info on the mini?
Why then release anything at all?

because if they gave some basic specs out now, half of the people would wait for the red mini cam and other half would go out and buy another mini pro cam like an hvx or something similar. by witholding info, none of us can buy a red competitor's cam for fear we will be spending money with the wrong company on the wrong cam. that's why apple doesn't preview (except for itv and iphone which are consumer devices) new products. smart marketing.

[Policar]

Well, I'd at least like to know if it's a disembodied 4k lipstick cam that costs $20,000 and needs to be hooked up to some sort of hard drive array...

Versus an $8,000 super16 small, full featured camera.

There's a market for each. Those markets don't really overlap.

It's kind of unfair not knowing even what to expect. At least with the 4k projector you know it's a 4k projector not an "image displaying device" or something uselessly ambiguous. There's hype and then there's being led on; this is the latter.

[JCallahan]

I think that it will probably do 4k redcode and that its release will probably coincide with some really low flash prices to allow for great onboard recording.

[Yash Keough]

Well, I'd at least like to know if it's a disembodied 4k lipstick cam that costs $20,000 and needs to be hooked up to some sort of hard drive array...

Versus an $8,000 super16 small, full featured camera.

There's a market for each. Those markets don't really overlap.

It's kind of unfair not knowing even what to expect. At least with the 4k projector you know it's a 4k projector not an "image displaying device" or something uselessly ambiguous. There's hype and then there's being led on; this is the latter.

I initially thought it would be a lipstick camera as that's what it sounded like but then I thought about it and really, it can't be. A lipstick camera I would presume has a much smaller market and does not really appeal to the typical indie. My 2 cents anyways.

[Robert Jackson]

Versus an $8,000 super16 small, full featured camera.

This would be the hippest, IMO. If Red could make the ultimate lightweight doc camera. The Red One is poised to be one of the coolest cinema cameras ever, but it's a little chunky for run-and-gun doc work. I mean, it will do the job I'm sure, but at the end of the day you'll know you've been carrying it around all day. If they could release something the size of an A-Minima, though. That would be the coolest. Like, look at a whole A-Minima rig in a road case:

http://www.visualproducts.com/images/store/b998c.jpg

If you could walk on an airplane with a full-tilt camera setup and all the lenses and accessories that would be the hippest. That's really the portability acid-test because shipping gear via FedEx is doable, but I think most of us would rather have our camera with us as a carry-on if at all possible. I flew a lot last year with a JVC HD100 in a Portabrace Quick Draw bag. It was really nice to have the camera with me all the time. None of that nagging suspicion that it was being thrown through the air by gorillas somewhere.

Red have pretty much set out to show the world that they can make the ultimate cinema camera for a reasonable price. The ultimate compact doc shooter might be a nice followup. Who'd buy another HVX for $6000 if they could get a camera the same size for $10k that shot 4K (or even 2K) with none of that nasty interpolated resolution and accepted interchangeable lenses? Even something with a smaller sensor would be fine (and in some cases preferable). Personally, if I could shoot 2K 4:4:4 with Cooke SK4 primes (or a less expensive Red equivalent) I'd be insanely happy.

[MarkJLyon]

Agreed. Super 16 sensor, PL mount, 2K recording to onboard flash. A digital A-minima. Done.

[Fix]

I don´t understand why they ( Red ) are so shy now on info. Red is so far ahead of the competition and have their showcase project finished, that a new, maybe even more complex system like the mini can hardly be beaten.


Its called marketing strategy.

[Steve Gibby]

I was the very fortunate journalist to first break the news to the world of all five of RED's major NAB announcements: New RED lenses, Peter Jackson's Crossing the line, Professional Pocket Camera, 4k displays, and 4k projectors. The news for the lenses and Peter Jackson was via my Studio Monthly article that went live online at 9:00am on 4/16/07, and then I was the first journalist to interview Ted Schilowitz on opening day at NAB, at 9:05am on 4/16/07, and based on that interview I posted the news of the Professional Pocket Camera and the 4k displays and projectors on the Studio Daily blog at 9:41am. At 9:51am I started a thread on RED User that first broke the news here about RED's intentions to develop a Professional Pocket Camera and 4k displays and projectors. I feel deeply honored to have gotten the chance to break the RED NAB news.

Keeping the above in mind, let me reiterate what I reported: Ted said that RED would be developing a "Professional Pocket Camera". He gave no other details and no hints as to RED's design intentions for the camera, it's size, resolution, function, market, etc. Everything that has been posted about the Professional Pocket Camera on any forum since the news broke, is merely conjecture by interested individuals - but that's cool, that's the function of forums.

I think a PPC is a great next camera move for RED - even though I don't have the foggiest idea of the parameters and tech specs RED is considering for the camera. IMO, in the development process for RED One, RED has shown that they have their finger on the pulse of the motion media industry. IMO RED is listening. The threads that have been started about the PPC have some very cool feature requests, and I think many of the suggestions have good merit.

RED has only officially stated what I reported on 4/16 - that they are developing a Professional Pocket Camera (exact words). I'm sure they're listening, I think many of the feature requests are logical ones, and I'm also sure RED will say more about the PPC when they feel the time is right.

For my production business, I'll be real interested in hearing more about the PPC. If the PPC can dovetail with my RED One cameras for field work in related genres and sub-genres, I'll take a real close look at it.

[Petr Dvorak]

last post from Jim about miniRED
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showpost.php?p=36580&postcount=9

[Robert Jackson]

Its called marketing strategy.

Well, not only that. They're probably still deciding what it's going to be. It's not like they've had a ton of time on their hands to screw around with stuff not directly related to getting the Red One out.

[Policar]

Agreed. Super 16 sensor, PL mount, 2K recording to onboard flash. A digital A-minima. Done.

I agree. But from the comments below it looks like a 4k lipstick cam is more likely.

The thing is, you don't even need 4k for lipstick cam purposes since there's typically enough motion blur in such shots that the increase in resolution is negligible. (Apocalypto and City of God, imo, proved as much.)

But from a marketing standpoint, I suppose it would make more sense not to stray from 4k.

[Fix]

Well, not only that. They're probably still deciding what it's going to be. It's not like they've had a ton of time on their hands to screw around with stuff not directly related to getting the Red One out.

Well I think you just pointed out some good example for good marketing strategy.

Secrets like these will give them tons of free advertisement. "They are the guys behind RED ONE!"... Its mighty clever, but not new. They will jump on us when the time is right.

[Emanuel A.]

This would be the hippest, IMO. If Red could make the ultimate lightweight doc camera. The Red One is poised to be one of the coolest cinema cameras ever, but it's a little chunky for run-and-gun doc work.Agreed.


I mean, it will do the job I'm sure, but at the end of the day you'll know you've been carrying it around all day. If they could release something the size of an A-Minima, though. That would be the coolest. Like, look at a whole A-Minima rig in a road case:

http://www.visualproducts.com/images/store/b998c.jpgSame POV here.

[Stephen Gentle]

RED has only officially stated what I reported on 4/16 - that they are developing a Professional Pocket Camera (exact words).

They also said that it's not made of plastic...

[Steve Gibby]

They also said that it's not made of plastic...

Yes they did, but I was simply relating what was said in my personal interview with Ted Schilowitz. The later RED Team statments that it wouldn't be plastic, that silence was necessary right now because they had the Big Boys attention, reiteration that it was a professional camera (not prosumer or consumer), etc. were posted by RED Team members well after my interview with Ted and my breaking of the news online.

[cckid]

If they could release something the size of an A-Minima, though. That would be the coolest. Like, look at a whole A-Minima rig in a road case:

I completely agree with you...that's it....a price tag somewhere between 5000 and 10000 usd, 2k sensor would be just fine, red drives maybe a bit smaller size than those for red one, variable speeds, pl mount and nikon mount. The result would be a camera versatile capable of run and gun, beeing able to be used as a second camera unit along with the red one, solid construction, i don't mind not having all these outputs as red one has as long as it has professional sound I/O, good monitoring output option and a hd-sdi....

red PPC should definitely the red answer to the lovely aaton a minima...completely agree on that...I even had a dream of holding one....I do a lot of music videos, occasionaly shoot commercials, do a lot of documentary work...a friend of mine has ordered a red one, if red PPC approaches my needs by 80 percent I am placing an order for it....since I am having doubts concerning hvx200 and p2, I'd rather wait to get my hands on the upcoming red PPC...and that's just the sweet spot in terms of market needs....

don't care if it's not a pocket camera as long as it is professional, as long as it support nikon mount and as long as it has variable speed. and doesn't cost more than 10000 usd for the basic setup....by the way congrats for the red team and their nab presentation I think they blew the whole place apart...been folowing the stuff for already from begining (almost 2 years now) and have been a firm beleiver for what you're putting together...great job....if you want to see something funny check out the trailer for my last docu film HONEYMOON shot in Tokyo Japan....hope will use the red PPC on my next docu eiga....

www.honeymoonthemovie.net

www.staderzen.com