A bit of raw data is in order

[Alexander Black]

Hey all,

After reading the troll thread and the "ok what am I looking at" thread, I think it would help us all if red posted a few tiffs of original (ungraded) frames from the pj short.

It's pointless looking at jpegs to analyze the performance of _any_ camera :P

Also, perhaps unlike many of the people posting in those threads with weird negative comments - I was at NAB and saw it projected for myself, so I'm already convinced - but I would very much like to see some right-off-the-camera stuff.

thanks,

_alex

[Chris Nuzzaco]

I would agree, I'm not a doubter, far from. But having a single RAW frame would be awesome! pretty pretty please....:)

[Alexander Black]

People are going to town on this stuff... though yeah, someone ran the OCN (er, "OCD" Original Camera Data) through some very funky algorithms. Add on a little compression artifacting and you have beautiful frames that have been been drug through the figurative mud :)

[Chris Nuzzaco]

People are going to town on this stuff... though yeah, someone ran the OCN (er, "OCD" Original Camera Data) through some very funky algorithms. Add on a little compression artifacting and you have beautiful frames that have been been drug through the figurative mud :)

LOL, yeah, I read all of these comments from people that have beef with the current frame grabs and I like, "common people, these are far better grabs than any current HD format out there!" Sheesh. Can't wait to see the full quality.

[donatello b]

come ON folks
last week it was post anything from it = they gave you stills ...
this week post a 1080p = they gave you a clip ..
it doesn't really matter what they post....

if you really want to see what the short looks like ..you need to see it 4k at 24fps ( not single frames) or perhaps 2k at 24fps on a BIG SCREEN ....

as soon as the 1st camera's ship - there will be postings of frames by individuals ...

Turing ... off hand are you the same Alex Black at CML ?

[Alexander Black]

donatello - re: cml, that would be me, same a**hole :)

also, I've _seen_ the 4k short @ NAB, which is precisely why I want original data. In conversation with Jim he was saying they pushed it all over the place in grading. I just want to see the raw low contrast fu that is coming right out of the camera.

Anyway, I'm sure that request will be satisfied at some point - but it would make their lives a lot easier if they put tiffs up. It would quickly stop all the whinging going on. The original "alpha" frames were so unbelievably gorgeous - like what I saw projected, even though I didn't particularly agree with the grading choices (very flat).

_a

[Alexander Black]

Are you in the bay area? And, would you be interested in some data management and post assistance in exchange for a bit of time with your #103 when it arrives? :) If the idea is even remotely interesting to you, give me a call.

best,

_alex

[P Andersson]

LOL, yeah, I read all of these comments from people that have beef with the current frame grabs and I like, "common people, these are far better grabs than any current HD format out there!" Sheesh. Can't wait to see the full quality.

Yes of course the images look amazing, and even these projected at 24fps might even look better than film. But they are not as crisp as the milkgirl and greenscreen grabs that came directly from the RAW port, so I think we are just looking to figure out just where these effects happened. Was REDCINE compressing the raw data a little too much or was it a choice in the post pipeline after it was written to the red drive, or was it something completely different.

They did squeeze a couple of hours of footage onto a red drive, maybe 27MB/s is a little too ambitious.

[Simon Blackledge]

Could well have been "lets really push it"

"oh, bit far..."

"no, quantel has this cool noise reducer"

Zap.........

[Álex Montoya]

My guess would be something like that, flame

[Brook Willard]

They'll post what they want, when they want, if they want. Nothing is in order and nothing should be expected. They're doing us a favor here. Trust me, after seeing the footage... it just doesn't compare to the 4K theater experience with 5.1 audio. Yes, I know we couldn't all be at NAB. That still doesn't mean that they have to post something or not.

Think back to IBC. They screened the footage and the footage hit the internet by means of youtube. The entire original bit of Frankie footage was never released. They didn't owe it to us then... they don't owe it to us now. :)

As Jarred said, don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

[Simon Blackledge]

It's pointless looking at jpegs to analyze the performance of _any_ camera :P

_alex

ya sure? :tongue:

[Simon Blackledge]

As Jarred said, don't look a gift horse in the mouth.


Straight from the horse's mouth:bleh:

[Brook Willard]

Heheh. I know what you're getting at, but just to clarify... I am not a RED employee. I know nothing beyond what you guys know and I'm just as anxious to watch the film again.

[Simon Blackledge]

I was suggesting nothing of the sort!.. :bleh:

[Andrew M.]

As per Jim’s post, he is in the Prague with Beta cameras, "Penny" and "Bombay"
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?p=32682#post32682

Also in some other posts here, I have seen the remark that some shots from the footage presented during the NAB, were done in not perfect settings of the camera.
I rather see footage done in less hasty environment and judge on it, then blow out the discussion on the current one.

Seeing 2800 simultaneous users connected to this discussion group and only 400 members, I think that for us who reserved the RED camera and for the future customers that count on the RED to be successful venture, will be much better if we ask Jim not to release any footage until it will be taken in good if not perfect settings.
Also I rather see Beta camera in use then Alpha.

If some of you didn’t understand my way of thinking, please send me a private message.

Andrew

[Brook Willard]

Penny and Bombay were two of the cameras on display at NAB, for those who are curious. Who knows... you might've had your hands on them!

[Alexander Black]

I groped both of them :)

Also, brook: while I agree that "anything they release is already better" - I was there, at the booth, slobbering like the rest of the fanboys. I am bathing in the kool-aid.

Still: I think much controversy could be assuaged by posting some nice syrupy raw data for us all to muck about with.

But this is just my opinion, and I will die shortly from koolaid induced toxemia, so pay no attention. *cough* *hack*

[donatello b]

"Are you in the bay area? And, would you be interested in some data management and post assistance in exchange for a bit of time with your #103 when it arrives?"

in berkeley ...as of now i'm planning to invite the other Sf/sanjose bay area reservation holders to do test with RED 103 ... not sure on the details yet but as we get close to july will be sending out emails ...
do you have a RED on order ? .. if no reservation/order then that would depend on how many decide to come by .. i have 20+ persons wanting to test/see it, serveral projects wanting to rent it , and another wanting to lease it long term.

perhaps i'll see if lee utterbach would be interested in having some kind of test/see at his place ??? that would be open to all ?....