CS 4 now available...

[Gunleik Groven]

Bring on your comments!

http://www.adobe.com/products/

[Nino Del Padre]

Installing now. Will let you know when its done (long install)

[Gunleik Groven]

Curious whether the RED RAW functionability comes off the shelf... some of the marketing has hinted at that.

Gunleik

[Thomas Patrick C.]

Curious whether the RED RAW functionability comes off the shelf... some of the marketing has hinted at that.

Gunleik

I spoke with Adobe support, here is what they said;

Yes, Premiere Pro CS4 provides native support for RED R3D files.

But I'll wait until DelPadre confirms this before I purchase.

[Gunleik Groven]

Nice.

Then I guess I'll be doin' some CS4 tests...

[Nino Del Padre]

NO RED SUPPORT. Its not in the import list and when you choose all files it says its unsuported.

[Gunleik Groven]

Ouch....

[Thomas Patrick C.]

NO RED SUPPORT. Its not in the import list and when you choose all files it says its unsuported.


What the flying flip?? I spoke with an Andre in customer support right before I was to order in that pop up chat window. I asked him to confirm this, then to double confirm, he came back to me about a minute later.

[Nino Del Padre]

From another thread:

No third parties yet support CS4. Although Adobe is beginning to ship CS4, the current shipments do *not* contain the API that allows third parties to plug in their SW. Our understanding is the third-party API is scheduled for roughly the second half of November. So as a reference point we'll be supporting CS4 in about December.

[Steve Freebairn]

It will be supported, it's just not supported yet. RED is the one writing the plugin, not Adobe. We need RED to know how much we want the plugin and we also need to be patient since they're working their butts off.

CS4 rocks! It's significantly better than CS3. I love Adobe Media Encoder. I also love not having to render when designing a DVD.

[Cüneyt Kaya]

NO RED SUPPORT. Its not in the import list and when you choose all files it says its unsuported.

http://www.adobe.com/products/premiere/supportedformats.html

RED

Adobe and RED Digital Cinema Camera Company are collaborating to bring a truly native, color-rich, 4K tapeless workflow to desktop tools, enabling filmmakers to harness the full potential of high-resolution raw digital cinematography. The first step of this long-term collaboration is the importer plug-in that brings native support for RED R3D files to Adobe® Premier® Pro CS4, After Effects® CS4 Professional, and Encore® CS4, allowing 4K resolution native R3D files to be dropped straight onto the timeline without transcoding or rewrapping.

their link brings us to reds support page.........

[Gunleik Groven]

Yup, that's native support... :)

[Nino Del Padre]

Just chated with Andre and was told it was supported. I said no its not yet supported and he said Please check with our Customer Service at 1-800- 833- 6687 regarding the order status. As we are from the Sales Team , we do not have the access to previous purchases.


What the flying flip?? I spoke with an Andre in customer support right before I was to order in that pop up chat window. I asked him to confirm this, then to double confirm, he came back to me about a minute later.

[Steve Sherrick]

Guys, the Adobe sales people don't really know the details. With all due respect I spoke with a woman today who didn't know what NTSC was or a lot of other things for that matter. But one thing I do know is that CS4 does not support R3D right out of the gate. It should support Red QT reference files.

This will require patience as there are some things that need to be worked out. I think Adobe wanted to get this out so people can start to get familiar with the new features and then the rest will follow in a few weeks.

[Pietro Impagliazzo]

Can you guys post some SS?

I'm curious about the tabbed GUI...

[David Wilson]

3%...

[Jim Hoffman]

Just ordered the Master Collection upgrade. Yipee!!!!

[SandeepDey]

To adoBE or not to adoBE, that is the question.

[david farland]

So is 64bit support coming in CS5 and not in CS4?
Anyone know?

[Mike Harrington]

you on a mac?

I havn't upgraded yet, but from all the press releases I saw 64 was enabled in CS4 for windows....not mac of course because adobe has to port all there code to macs new proprietary coding base (you can get 64 bit in a mac right now....just not anything with a user interface)

[Jeff Kilgroe]

(you can get 64 bit in a mac right now....just not anything with a user interface)

What are you smoking? :umm: ...might want to double-check your facts.

[Mark L. Pederson]

. I think Adobe wanted to get this out so people can start to get familiar with the new features and then the rest will follow in a few weeks.

Steve is a smart guy.

[david farland]

you on a mac?

I havn't upgraded yet, but from all the press releases I saw 64 was enabled in CS4 for windows....
Windows....but I haven't seen anything that says this version of Premiere is actually 64bit.
D

[Mike Harrington]

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdharrington
(you can get 64 bit in a mac right now....just not anything with a user interface)

What are you smoking? ...might want to double-check your facts.

this is true for carbon apps....
well not totally impossible there is a workaround

As mentioned earlier, the use of a 64-bit address space is limited to non-GUI applications in Tiger. This doesn't mean, however, that the results of a 64-bit enabled computation can't be displayed on the screen. The strategy that you should use is to create two separate executables that are cooperative.

this is from apples developer site
http://developer.apple.com/macosx/64bit.html

a lot of developers have bitched about this hence no adobe 64 bit for mac...no maya 64, no lightwave 64, no syntheyes 64 bit, no nuke 64 bit... ect ect ect...
all those listed do have windows 64 bit counterparts

from syntheyes website
http://www.ssontech.com/sixty4.htm#OSX

To Our Mac OS X Customers
Apple has announced that Leopard and future Apple operating systems will not support 64-bit applications using Carbon, their current application environment. Apple is requiring developers to re-write their applications using Apple's proprietary language and environment in order to use 64-bit features. It's a startling stance for a company that is already several years behind in the real 64-bit world.

If you want to use all the RAM in your machine, fire up your Mac in 64-bit Vista or XP, and run 64-bit SynthEyes today

since you may know better....list some true 64 bit apps that you know of for osx?

[Christopher Grant Harvey]

Premiere is 32 bit.

But works on XP32 and Vista 64 only not XP64.

[Tom Lowe]

I'm looking forward to this!!

[Andrew M.]

From the CS4 readme file:
Adobe Photoshop Extended natively supports 64-bit editions of Windows. Adobe Premiere Pro, After Effects, Soundbooth, Encore, and Adobe OnLocation are certified on 64-bit Windows Vista.
So no native support for 64 bits, it just works on 64 bits.

Bit disappointed with CS4 “upgrade”
First of all it is not really upgrade but full install in the separate directory, leaving you with two CS3 and CS4 icons.
Opening and converting old CS3 project looks like big trouble, I did try just a few and had all kinds of format and playback size idiosyncrasies.
No support for R3D files and no support for RED QT proxies, this one gives you error ‘codec missing’.
Looks like in November there will be support for plugin first, than we have to get this plugin from RED.

We have a long route to haven:-)

So far it looks like there will be long painful debugging process, especially if you have extensive library of projects from CS3.

I wonder if we get this ugly banding when coding from RED 16 bit to 8 bit BluRay H.264 or mpeg2.

[Dave Neathery]

From the CS4 readme file:

I wonder if we get this ugly banding when coding from RED 16 bit to 8 bit BluRay H.264 or mpeg2.

I have been making BluRay discs from files down converted to 1080P in RedCine using CS3 and they look really good. (Files were converted using only the highest quality settings RedCine offers of course.) I might be wrong, but I don't think the BluRay file produced is 8 bit. mpeg2 doesn't look very good of course.

Dave

[Andrew M.]

Dave, what final output format did you use?
Did you try H.264 for BR?
I do not have any problem with TIF or DPX.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

this is true for carbon apps....
well not totally impossible there is a workaround

As mentioned earlier, the use of a 64-bit address space is limited to non-GUI applications in Tiger. This doesn't mean, however, that the results of a 64-bit enabled computation can't be displayed on the screen. The strategy that you should use is to create two separate executables that are cooperative.

Hey, I was just picking a nit -- you said that you couldn't have an interface on a 64bit app. Not true. But if we want to analyze the situation...

Yes, as far as Tiger is concerned, the situation is pretty dire. As far as Leopard goes, it's better. BTW: that 64bit link you have there, the first one, is nearly 3 years old. There are more abilities under Leopard. Which in itself is a problem -- software developers, especially larger ones with establish customer bases, are not willing to let go of Tiger support right now. Perhaps this will change once Snow Leopard starts shipping?

The compilers are fully 64bit enabled (when compiling / linking for Leopard only), but the Carbon API is still 32bit. For now, this mean Applications built to only function under Leopard will have more options, but sill run into the limitations of the Carbon API. This leaves software developers with a couple options, none of them great. These options are:

1> Port all code base from C/C++ and the Carbon API over to Objective C with the Cocoa API set. While it would not be a huge task to convert most applications, it would leave software companies with effectively two separate code bases to manage between PC / Mac platforms.

2> Dump all the Apple frameworks (if used) and create all new application frameworks and an intermediate API interface to allow the linking of Cocoa APIs. It has been done, I know of one example of someone doing this, I can't talk about the product, sorry.

3> Just continue perpetuation of the OSX version of the software with the Carbon API and live in 32bit land forever. Or hope that Apple will ultimately dump Carbon altogether and allow for full C++ language and compiler support with Cocoa. Which would be the ideal... No one seems to know and Apple has not announced whether or not they will do this. It's clear that Carbon is to die, and Cocoa is just fine except without taking huge steps to invoke option #2 above, the only usable language is Objective C. Option #2 above is actually a serious undertaking and could break with every update to XCode. Even for large applications already written for Carbon, it would still probably be cheaper to move to option #1 -- Port the app to Obj.C / Cocoa.

We also have to consider that there appears to be no 64bit versions of CS4 anyway. And all the 64bit support that has been mentioned for Windows is nothing more than marketing fluff to say that it works under Vista64. What a pisser.

FWIW, I am not aware of any cross-platform (that's the key term here) applications that provide 64bit support on OSX. Because of the current issues. There are however 64bit apps that are OSX only, written with Cocoa, and they have GUIs.

[Dave Neathery]

Dave, what final output format did you use?
Did you try H.264 for BR?
I do not have any problem with TIF or DPX.

For some reason, I just lost my reply, so here goes again:
I've tried mpeg2 and H.264 both. On H.264 I selected 1920 X 1080.
Frame rate in both cases was 29.97.
I would compare the BluRay I got with any Hollywood release I have viewed so far. I would not release the mpeg2 version to anyone.

People viewing my DVDs made with the same system are telling me they have never seen any better ones commercially. I have a large collection of movies and I think I can at least match the best of them without even bothering to use CinnemaCraft to encode.
In RedCine I used Detail high, Noise reduction enabled, Quicktime, Raw, max quality, 1920 X 1080 Process full.
I don't really have any other option for use with Premier pro.
It takes about 4 days for each hour of source file to render and almost 700 Gbytes. On my computer, if I use any higher res, Premier can't play it at speed.

As for the cameras, I record at 29.97 fps 4K 16:9 with shutter at 1/96sec, 5600K lighting and F5.6. I have given up some DOF that I would rather keep to get less motion smear.

I hope that answers your questions. Fortunately, I am not going film out, so I don't have to use 24fps and have all the 3-2 pull down problems.
I wish I could record at 60fps to reduce motion smear further and make 1080P 60 BluRays, but obviously that's not possible for several reasons, yet.
(I wonder if CS4 has better BluRay options.)
Dave

[Andrew M.]

Dave, didn’t play with CS4 Encore yet to make any BR on CS4.
Thanks for detailed explanation.
Are you outputting to BR from PR or you use Encore?
What setting are you using? What color space?
And I tried all and every color space out there possible that Encore or PR will support in effects menu.
Converting from one color space to the other should remove the banding but I don’t know how to do it. Which color space to use as a working color space and which as an output color space.

I use maximum color depth that defaults to 8 bit with anything that goes to BR.
Even if I find 14 bit codec BR player will play only 8.
I have a lot of bending on the blue sky when changing exposure.
Try to shoot it and change exposure +- two stops.
Then add some contrast or change color a bit.
Now I learn how to shoot to avoid it but then I have a lot of work with secondary CC.

What a nightmare. I rather DI to film prints than BR. BR have to go 16 bit or otherwise quality will be where it is, consumer grade.

[Mike Harrington]

Hey, I was just picking a nit -- you said that you couldn't have an interface on a 64bit app. Not true. But if we want to analyze the situation...

Yes, as far as Tiger is concerned, the situation is pretty dire. As far as Leopard goes, it's better. BTW: that 64bit link you have there, the first one, is nearly 3 years old. There are more abilities under Leopard. Which in itself is a problem -- software developers, especially larger ones with establish customer bases, are not willing to let go of Tiger support right now. Perhaps this will change once Snow Leopard starts shipping?

The compilers are fully 64bit enabled (when compiling / linking for Leopard only), but the Carbon API is still 32bit. For now, this mean Applications built to only function under Leopard will have more options, but sill run into the limitations of the Carbon API. This leaves software developers with a couple options, none of them great. These options are:

1> Port all code base from C/C++ and the Carbon API over to Objective C with the Cocoa API set. While it would not be a huge task to convert most applications, it would leave software companies with effectively two separate code bases to manage between PC / Mac platforms.

2> Dump all the Apple frameworks (if used) and create all new application frameworks and an intermediate API interface to allow the linking of Cocoa APIs. It has been done, I know of one example of someone doing this, I can't talk about the product, sorry.

3> Just continue perpetuation of the OSX version of the software with the Carbon API and live in 32bit land forever. Or hope that Apple will ultimately dump Carbon altogether and allow for full C++ language and compiler support with Cocoa. Which would be the ideal... No one seems to know and Apple has not announced whether or not they will do this. It's clear that Carbon is to die, and Cocoa is just fine except without taking huge steps to invoke option #2 above, the only usable language is Objective C. Option #2 above is actually a serious undertaking and could break with every update to XCode. Even for large applications already written for Carbon, it would still probably be cheaper to move to option #1 -- Port the app to Obj.C / Cocoa.

We also have to consider that there appears to be no 64bit versions of CS4 anyway. And all the 64bit support that has been mentioned for Windows is nothing more than marketing fluff to say that it works under Vista64. What a pisser.

FWIW, I am not aware of any cross-platform (that's the key term here) applications that provide 64bit support on OSX. Because of the current issues. There are however 64bit apps that are OSX only, written with Cocoa, and they have GUIs.

clear as crystal....
more complicated than I realized...

it does seem that photoshop extended is 64bit though, but none of the rest....

[Tom Lowe]

Can anyone with Premiere Pro CS4 check to see if it can ingest RAW files (.CR2, for example) using the Camera Raw interface? In CS3, After Effects and Photoshop can obviously ingest RAW files, but Premiere never has been able to, and I was hoping CS4 might do it (especially after all the emails I sent Adobe :wink: ).

[Jeff Kilgroe]

That's cool if Photoshop Extended is 64bit. At least it's a start. I'd like to know about the camera RAW ingest in Premiere as well. I plan to upgrade to CS4, but I'm in no hurry and will probably wait until the R3D plugin is available and working reliably with audio support.

[Dave Neathery]

Dave, didn’t play with CS4 Encore yet to make any BR on CS4.
Thanks for detailed explanation.
Are you outputting to BR from PR or you use Encore?
What setting are you using? What color space?
And I tried all and every color space out there possible that Encore or PR will support in effects menu.
Converting from one color space to the other should remove the banding but I don’t know how to do it. Which color space to use as a working color space and which as an output color space.

I use maximum color depth that defaults to 8 bit with anything that goes to BR.
Even if I find 14 bit codec BR player will play only 8.
I have a lot of bending on the blue sky when changing exposure.
Try to shoot it and change exposure +- two stops.
Then add some contrast or change color a bit.
Now I learn how to shoot to avoid it but then I have a lot of work with secondary CC.

What a nightmare. I rather DI to film prints than BR. BR have to go 16 bit or otherwise quality will be where it is, consumer grade.

I used the "export to Encore" function in Premier Pro and selected the settings I listed earlier.
I don't have much time right now, but what I am getting on BR certainly doesn't look like 8 bit to me. Are you using HDMI interfaces? Component video will give you garbage.
Got to go, sorry.
Dave

[Steve Freebairn]

That's cool if Photoshop Extended is 64bit. At least it's a start. I'd like to know about the camera RAW ingest in Premiere as well. I plan to upgrade to CS4, but I'm in no hurry and will probably wait until the R3D plugin is available and working reliably with audio support.

It is beneficial to run AE CS4 with a 64 bit OS (including Vista x64 which is what I'm using). I've got 8 GB of RAM installed and I can set AE to use 7.75 GB of that RAM. The multicore changes alone make the upgrade worth it.

For Premiere, there are a few things that I'm sure will change within months, but right now CR2 is not supported as an import format in Premiere, unless you take it through Ae first. The processing through Adobe Media Encoder is again worth it to buy the upgrade for that feature alone.

Background rendering for Premiere is awesome, so is not having to render before going to Encore.

[Kevin Halverson]

Can anyone with Premiere Pro CS4 check to see if it can ingest RAW files (.CR2, for example) using the Camera Raw interface? In CS3, After Effects and Photoshop can obviously ingest RAW files, but Premiere never has been able to, and I was hoping CS4 might do it (especially after all the emails I sent Adobe :wink: ).

I will be happy to check this capability later today when I get back in front of a machine with PPro CS4 installed on it.

More to follow...

[Tom Lowe]

For Premiere, there are a few things that I'm sure will change within months, but right now CR2 is not supported as an import format in Premiere, unless you take it through Ae first. The processing through Adobe Media Encoder is again worth it to buy the upgrade for that feature alone.

:nerd:

Well I will keep my fingers crossed that they add it.

[Ege Eden]

Forgive my ignorance but can somebody explain
to me what does the 64bit next to os or vista
refers to?
'cause I'm thinking of buying a mac pro or a
macbook pro for Red and I wouldn't like
to make a mistake...

[Mike McCarthy]

Microsoft has released both 32bit and 64bit versions of XP and Vista. The 64bit versions have been slower to catch on, but offer the possibility of much higher performance.

[Antoine Baumann]

So is 64bit support coming in CS5 and not in CS4?
Anyone know?

I would have say at least CS6... but then this came:


it does seem that photoshop extended is 64bit though, but none of the rest....

I am still not sure, where did you see it is 64bit?

And,


Premiere is 32 bit.

But works on XP32 and Vista 64 only not XP64.

Are you sure it is not working on xp64? I am currently running CS3 on xp64, works well, and I don't like vista, but i have to say I was also slow to move from 2k to xp, so...

thanks,
antoine.

[Adam Glick]

All,

On the Windows side, PPro and AE CS4 prefer to run in Vista 64 with 8+GB RAM. They have been (re)written to make maximum use of the CPUs and RAM in modern workstations and make use of OS-level optimizations in VISTA64. AE and PPro can "spawn" (not sure if this is the official Adobe language) separate processes/executables -one for every core, each one able to use multiple GBs of system RAM.

What I am hearing from Adobe is that if you want maximum performance and stability - you should run VISTA64. And to remember that XP64 is not supported for CS4.

This doesn't mean you won't be able to get it to run, it just means that Adobe won't support it if you have problems.

On a related note, there are several other components such as video I/O cards and fibre channel HBA's, etc who's manufacturers are simply skipping XP64 driver support and moving straight to Vista64. Aja Xena is one for instance.

If you're a Windows user and have been putting off the migration to new hardware and the VISTA OS, now is the time to do it. For the vast majority, there are now clear benefits to artists for moving into VISTA for their post production and VFX pipeline.

VISTA is a little quirky at first. You have to get it set up to your liking. I will say this. But once you nail the user settings and GUI the way you like them, VISTA runs your apps like a dream.

Our lab runs and evaluates nearly ALL of the apps you guys are running. And I quite honestly have to say that practically all of them run great in VISTA.

Multitasking in VISTA is also faster no matter what apps or workflows you run.

It's my best advice.

[Stacey Spears]

Be advised that there are no Vista drivers for the Quadro SDI card. There are basic nVidia drivers, but not if you want to use the SDI daughter board. They will eventually come. The current SDI driver is from January. Next one is due soon for the CX card.

[Adam Glick]

Very true. SDI support for Quadro is gonna be close for sure.

[ericyoung]

...Our lab runs and evaluates nearly ALL of the apps you guys are running. And I quite honestly have to say that practically all of them run great in VISTA...

Practically all - so which ones don't?

[Adam Glick]

Hi Eric,

Well, let's see. man, let me think about it. havn't had my coffee yet this morning... ;)

We currently have the following up to date, full releases and/or beta builds in our lab library: CS3, CS4, Vegas, Audition, combustion, Houdini, toxic, Scratch, Iridas FC & SG, Maya, MAX, XSI, realflow, lightwave, C4D, MODO, uhh im sure i'm forgetting a few.

Other releases in the library that probably need to be updated: Avid MC, Nuke. There's also a ton of older stuff nobody uses anymore. discreet edit, crystal graphics, illuminaire, speed razor, geez...

This doesn't include the dozens of other apps we keep current for other markets such as industrial design, visual simulation, queue management, etc.

Adam

[ericyoung]

Thanks for quick reply Adam - so that's a list of apps that you've got working fine with Vista. But what are the few that don't was my question - just the older apps you mention?

[Eric Addison]

I just loaded up Vista 64 along with Prodction Premium CS4 on my system....it's like a whole new computer! I've never seen it run so smooth and fast.

And CS4 is great - I love all the upgrades from CS3.

[Mike Harrington]

I would have say at least CS6... but then this came:



I am still not sure, where did you see it is 64bit?

And,



Are you sure it is not working on xp64? I am currently running CS3 on xp64, works well, and I don't like vista, but i have to say I was also slow to move from 2k to xp, so...

thanks,
antoine.

open up the FAQ
http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/photoshop/faq/?promoid=DRHXB

[Antoine Baumann]

thanks for the info.

Heard that it will be 64bit on OSX for CS5.

ciao,
antoine.

[MichaelP]

Media Composer v3 supports both Vista 32 and 64.

Michael

[Tim Morten]

Media Composer v3 supports both Vista 32 and 64.

Michael

If only MC could handle R3D without a transcode! Wrong forum, I know, but since you brought it up :)!

[Kaku Ito]

Windows....but I haven't seen anything that says this version of Premiere is actually 64bit.
D

I heard from Adobe Japan people that PP CS4 is not real 64 bit compliant. it's like 64-bit emulation or something at this point.

[Joyfool]

PP CS4 is 32 bit but certified to work on 64bit vista (not XP). plz correct me if I'm wrong.

[Bérenger Brillante]

yep, i read it too, it works like a multi core proc... is has multi process of 32 bit each... so the RAM limitation is broken and it's 32 bit and 64 bit certified