MOST WANTED - Shoot RAM, Copy to RED Drive after take. [Archive]

Greg Voevodsky

04-25-2007, 09:28 AM

I heard at NAB that you can dual record red RAM (on Sata) and the RED Drive. However, you still have the noise of the RED Drive and bumps to worry about.

What many of us would like is to be able to COPY -> RED RAM to RED DRIVE with an automatic copy (or auto copy good clips only). That way, we can shoot RED RAM in total silence and shake the camera, finish the take, hit copy to RED DRIVE from our user select button and it will copy the good take, as we set up for the next shot OR during real time review of the last take.

This is the best of both worlds, shooting quiet RAM and backing up selects quickly in the field that could later be offloaded to PC. That way, I can buy one or 2 -> 32 Gig Sata RAM drives and a few RED Drives. Also, for steadycam work this would be great to fill up the RAM and then quickly copy it off to a RED DRIVE and then remove it.

AND, what would be the copy rate? Real time or 4x?

Please let us know ASAP, I'd like to put my part reservations in.

Jaime Vallés

04-25-2007, 09:51 AM

Michael Ragen

04-25-2007, 09:51 AM

Yes, I think this would be fantastic. I brought this up to a couple times on the board and mentioned it to Jarred at NAB. I hope it will be implemented. I don't think I would really use the dual record feature. Not having to unload footage to a computer until the end of the day would be very helpful.

Craig Schober

04-25-2007, 10:10 AM

Wait, can't you do that already with a regular external off-the-shelf hard drive?

1) Shoot to RED-RAM
2) Plug in cheap external hard drive via Firewire 800 / 400/ USB2
3) Dump footage from RED-RAM to hard drive
4) Erase contents of RED-RAM
5) Keep shooting while other assistants work with dumped footage

This would be my ideal workflow. Also, if during the process of dumping the footage the camera could verify that the copy it was making was perfect (no corruption, etc.) that would be fantastic.

there are no firewire ports on the red camera body - only on the red drive's housing. i'm not sure if it's been verified that redone camera acts as a host to usb devices but since it hosts a sata bus and has 2 usb ports, it only makes sense that you could plug in a usb external drive and dump data captured in flash.

Ken Willinger

04-25-2007, 10:13 AM

I also think it would be a great feature but if IIRC RED will not act as host.

laguun

04-25-2007, 10:17 AM

What many of us would like is to be able to COPY -> RED RAM to RED DRIVE with an automatic copy (or auto copy good clips only).

good suggestion.
we plan our workflow shoot directly to CF (without redflash), swap cards, copr full card to notebook. but this requires one pa more on the set.

Brook Willard

04-25-2007, 10:23 AM

I heard at NAB that you can dual record red RAM (on Sata) and the RED Drive. However, you still have the noise of the RED Drive and bumps to worry about.

I don't know who you heard this from, but if I'm understanding you correctly... you're mistaken. You can record to either the RED DRIVE, RED RAM or onboard flash options. Never more than one simultaneously.

At least unless something has changed... or if I'm making a mistake. Stranger things have happened...

Greg Voevodsky

04-25-2007, 01:50 PM

Another Red Buyer at NAB said he had asked about the dual record option to someone one the RED team and they said yes... (so, I'm sorry if this is a rumor but I believed the him.)

So now we have 2 Questions for RED:

Can RED dual record RAM (Sata Drive) and RED Drive at the same time?

2nd, Can RED copy RAM (Sata Drive) to RED Drive (all or selected clips - automatically or during playback review or2-4X faster)?

Nick Shaw

04-25-2007, 03:40 PM

I asked Stuart about dual record, and he gave me a definite no. Of course we know anything can change.

Eirik Tyrihjel

04-25-2007, 04:23 PM

What many of us would like is to be able to COPY -> RED RAM to RED DRIVE with an automatic copy (or auto copy good clips only). That way, we can shoot RED RAM in total silence and shake the camera, finish the take, hit copy to RED DRIVE from our user select button and it will copy the good take, as we set up for the next shot OR during real time review of the last take.

Sounds like a KILLER spec, and very doable, maybe it´s to late in the process for the RED team at this point...

I give two thumbs up!

Nick Shaw

04-25-2007, 05:11 PM

maybe it´s to late in the process for the RED team at this point...

Maybe for the first software release, but the great advantage of an upgradeable system is it can always be added later.

Stuart English

04-25-2007, 07:40 PM

Sorry, no dual record functions - you need to pick a defualt media if more than one is attached to the camera. Only workflow supported at this time is to unmount the media when its full and attach it to the Mac or P.C that is running REDCINE or a REDCODE capable NLE. Maybe later (future software)

Greg Voevodsky

04-25-2007, 11:31 PM

Thanks Stuart... so the answer currently is no.... but unlike Apple, can you or Jim or someone say - 1 it is possible or not possible and 2 if possible we will be looking into it (or if we get more requests, we will look into it.)

I personally would rather copy after the fact from RAM to Hard Drive.... for the most benefits and more time... but better shooting... So let us know, is it possible and if so do you need a pole to get it done... to me its a breakthrough for a lot of users and new workflow.

Not all of us run and gun can have PCs on location, maybe at night in the hotel, but not location - also, if you can copy ram to drive, maybe I don't need to bring a 5 pound MAC laptop with me for 20 days in the Caribbean and leave it at home.

PaulClements

04-26-2007, 04:01 AM

Rocco Schult

04-26-2007, 10:13 AM

Sorry, no dual record functions. Maybe later (future software)

Thanks for the answer, nonetheless: would be cool, if you could keep that in mind. Would comforten workflow and safety.

number6

04-26-2007, 10:47 AM

Just to throw out a point for discussion, is there a possibility of using the new Sandisk 32 GB Flash Drives inside the Red Drive? They are known as SSD's or solid state disks. The link to the article I read about these drives is: http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/31212/135/ They are fast, not overly expensive, quiet, and run on a SATA connection.

Justin O'Neill

04-26-2007, 12:58 PM

Given they strapped the Camera and RedDrive to a helicopter, did handheld and various bits and pieces with Peter Jackson I'm not too worried about bumps... I think they'd have to be rather big bumps :)

Also I never heard the RedDrive whiring on Crossing the Line :)

I think Jared told me that they didn't use the RED Drive on the helicopter. I think they went with one of the memory options.

Could be wrong though...

Brook Willard

04-26-2007, 12:59 PM

I've been told that they did use the RED DRIVE on the helicopter... that it was used for every shot in the movie.

Emery Wells

04-26-2007, 01:11 PM

General movement, bumps, and vibrations should not affect recording on the RED DRIVE. And i also heard everything was recorded to RED DRIVE.

Rob Lohman

04-26-2007, 02:28 PM

The RED-DRIVE was used for each and every shot / take on the shoot for Crossing the Line. No other recording options were used.

Corrado Silveri

04-26-2007, 02:33 PM

Thanks for the clarification, Rob.

Just a simple question: during the shooting, the drives was suffering for the shakes or not?
Did you know if any take must be repeated?

Rob Lohman

04-26-2007, 02:53 PM

I unfortunately wasn't at the shoot, so don't know all the details. Jarred or Deanan will be able to answer that question.

Emery Wells

04-26-2007, 03:52 PM

Thanks for the clarification, Rob.

Just a simple question: during the shooting, the drives was suffering for the shakes or not?
Did you know if any take must be repeated?

The camera 'shakes' were done in post if thats what you were referring to.

Corrado Silveri

04-26-2007, 11:15 PM

Oh yes, Emery, I know.
I was thinking about the "real" shakes of the camera body when they shooting handheld or on the eli...

With my cameras I will use the drives only, so I'm really interested...

Finner

04-26-2007, 11:26 PM

Thanks for the clarification, Rob.

Just a simple question: during the shooting, the drives was suffering for the shakes or not?
Did you know if any take must be repeated?

I asked this at NAB, Jared told me the drive dropped 1 heli shot from shake and Jim said the drives were not overly happy. It was also mentioned that Peter Jackson had little mercy and put the prototypes through the paces hard. IMO it seems like a pretty good test and a good chance for the RED team to see what the products can take and see the downfalls they can work on or recomend other options for.

Paul Leeming

04-27-2007, 08:22 AM

I did read somewhere that on the helicopter shots the drive was initially causing aborts of takes due to data dropout. That was apparently rectified old school style by running a longer data cable from the camera to inside the helicopter where Jarred became a human shock dampener by simply holding the drive while the camera rolled. Simple, low tech and completely effective! :)

Cloudchaser

04-27-2007, 02:37 PM

The copy off RAM to DRIVE feature sounds very nice.
Also, it would be nice to have a way to instantly and quickly delete the last take. How many times have we all been on set, and after rolling just before action gets called a plane flies over and the shot is cut before anything happens? It would be nice to just delete the shot so it doesn't take up media space. Or is this already a feature and I just don't know about it?
David

Greg Voevodsky

04-27-2007, 09:50 PM

Back to topic... so NO on dual record. How about record to drive during playback of RAM? That would still be useful both in real time or faster.

Is this possible? And if so, can you do it? Lots of us want it... (make your voice heard now red soon to be users)! This is one feature I really really want!

Nick Shaw

04-28-2007, 04:55 AM

I'm guessing when this thread refers to RAM, it means Flash. RED-RAM is the same size and sits in the same place as the RED-DRIVE, does it not? Therefore both could not be on the camera at the same time.

I'd certainly vote for the option of having a RED-DRIVE on the back and Flash media in the camera but using only the Flash to record during a take and auto-archiving that to the RED-DRIVE straight afterwards.

Otherwise manual copying on camera (ie no laptop involved) between two forms of RED media would be useful.