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jabour
10-16-2008, 06:07 AM
Hi!

Anyone using speedgrade for color grading???

Is it possible to export DPX files from red softwares without quality loss??

Thanks for your suggestions!!!

Vigen Vartanov
10-17-2008, 01:48 AM
You can render out from RED CINE , LOG and then you will have LOG DPX , and you will get maximum from .

Axel Mertes
10-21-2008, 08:26 AM
Hi Jabour,

we use SpeedGradeDI a lot, and also and especially for RED ONE footage.

Unfortunately the new firmware revisions of RED ONE (build 16+) do create the RED CODE files in a modified format, that no longer can be read as native RAW by SpeedGradeDI until RED implements that functionality in their SDK (press thumbs, we really wish for this).

So long you need to use the DPX route instead. 10 bit DPX is not exactly the same as 12 bit RAW deBayered, but a valid compromise. SpeedGradeDI performs better on DPX than on any other input format with regards of processing and playback speed.

Just make proper export from within RED CINE etc. apps and create DPX with a good contrast range. Then grade in SpeedGradeDI and be happy :)

Axel

jabour
10-22-2008, 01:02 PM
Thank you for your post Axel!

When do you think speedgrade will be able to open directly the r3d codec?

We have a red coming next month but we plan to work with other digital cinema cameras like Silicon 2K....

So we think that the speedgrade would be more interesting and shiper than scracth.....what do you think about?

By the way what is the hardware that runs your speedgradeDI?

Talk soon..

Axel Mertes
10-22-2008, 08:36 PM
Hi Jabour,

I just asked RED in another thread at http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=20733 when the SDK will be supporting native R3D RAW and bypassing REDs own deBayer process (as this is what SpeedGrade can do on the GPU in realtime, offloading tons of CPU usage).

We have used SG most of the time on a HP xw9300 dual Opteron system, but switched it for tests on a HP xw 8400 eight core system. We have a dedicated 16bay FC RAID6 for it, feeding footages.

We use the Quattro FX 5600 card. Nothing mystic, all proven off the shelf parts. No overclocked CPUs and such. And service people from HP can be here within a day in cause of a fault. Thats touchy too :)

There is nothing else like SpeedGrade when it comes to processing native RAW camera data. It supports effectively all RAW cameras, except Weinberger Visario/Cine Speedcam (cause of non-Bayer pattern, who uses that anyway anymore?) and currently RED (press thumbs see this changeing soon).

Its just that we end users are all waiting for the official support of native RAW from RED side now, so we are back on track with native RAW workflow, bypassing all this unnecessary Telecine hassle in RED CINE, RED ALERT or RED LINE to just generate DPX files, which can then be graded. With native RAW access we would grade on the original source footage, no file conversions, maximum quality and contrast range in terms of colors. It worked experimentally on the pre 15 builds, realtime 2K playback, realtime 4K grading on a 4core system. I see no reason why that should not work again when RED releases RAW access in the SDK.

As far as using R3D based workflow, this is in the works on SpeedGrade side using the existing SDK. I guess this is pretty much on par with Scratch when you use the same hardware. Still we`d prefer SpeedGrade for the grading part itself, but that might be a matter of taste.

Based on the point you use other RAW camera sources too, SpeedGrade sounds the right direction IMHO.

Cheers,
Axel

Lucas Wilson
10-22-2008, 09:45 PM
As far as using R3D based workflow, this is in the works on SpeedGrade side using the existing SDK. I guess this is pretty much on par with Scratch when you use the same hardware.

Hi Axel,

Just fyi - this is not the case. The SDK does not allow the same level of speed and control that SCRATCH has. Using the SDK as it exists right now to its fullest will not get you the realtime decode speed that SCRATCH has.

Of course, that will change over time as the SDK evolves. But today, it is what it is.

Best,

Lucas
-----
ASSIMILATE, inc.
LA, CA, USA

Jay A. Kelley
10-22-2008, 10:00 PM
Luki is correct.

Because of this I would advise holding off on making any larger purchases in DI software until RED has leveled the playing field by allowing the same access to all companies and you are able to compare apples to apples.

As Luki says, this will happen sooner or later.


Jay

Simon Blackledge
10-23-2008, 12:30 AM
From Digital Vision website.
--
There is no import or transcode stage and users will have full access to the floating point 4k data at all times.
--

No claim of realtime playback or actual RAW access.
Is floating point just refering to rgb 444 access?
For such an expensive system will they not be able to offer realtime playback either?

Thanks

s

Axel Mertes
10-23-2008, 01:57 AM
Hi Simon,

who knows what happens to Digital Vision now anyway?

It feels pretty risky to invest in any DI solutions right now. The market is cleaning up these days.

Axel

Simon Blackledge
10-23-2008, 04:28 AM
Hey Axel,
Yep seems some big players are in a state of flux.. It will all come out in the wash so to speak, question is, is it a slow or fast wash? :-/
s

Axel Mertes
10-23-2008, 05:10 AM
Hi Simon,

I'd prefer a fast wash and quick settlement after...

What can we do about it?
Go out and waste our money as much as we can. Turn on business. The worst place to leave money these days seems to be a bank or shares investment.

What happens if we all agree to ignore crisis? Would it still be crisis?

I guess I take a (lunch) break. Getting too philosophic.

Axel

Jay A. Kelley
10-23-2008, 05:49 AM
I like your questions...

Simon Blackledge
10-23-2008, 06:21 AM
Well there aint alot I can do so I'm just working as hard as I can and ignoring it! lol

Jason and Goliath and all that...

jabour
10-23-2008, 08:26 AM
Hey Axel,

Thank you for your posts...
Hard time to make important decisions...We like SG versatility of opening all raw data of the marketing and the possibilities of working with apple hardware.

It would be great to hear from RED team about the SDK access situation...:calm:

Cheers

Brad Hawkins
10-23-2008, 11:06 AM
Axel -

When you convert your Red footage to DPX for grading in SpeedGrade do you use the RedLog format?

Axel Mertes
10-23-2008, 12:20 PM
Hi Bradley,

well, we just recently switched to build 16 and did not much projects yet.

So far we tried both, traditional way and REDlog. We are still investigating whats the best method.

My problem is that I do not exactly know what RED CINE does inside. We want maximum image information (color depth wise) for the grading, so we relied on that glorious 320 ASA, -0.40 exposure setting so far.

IMHO the whole DPX conversion is a completely unnecessary hassle. Its nothing else than making the RED compatible to old style production. IMHO the apps should support RED R3D format directly, and not via RGB deBayer in software only, but also true and superfast decoded native RAW.

Did I said that before?

DPX is a good format, still. But being able to bypass it until final render at least, is great and would be great for RED too.

Cheers,
Axel