Investment in STICKS+HEAD for RED

[Obin Olson]

I have asked a few in PM with no reply. what would you guys recommend for a good lifetime set of sticks and head for the RED. I can't use the cheapo $1800 Cartoni any longer on the hvx or the RED when it come in, I understand one needs to drop cash on a good set of sticks+head but what unit?

MUST for me:

SMOOTH PAN TILT with long and short lens
work with small (hvx) and larger (RED) camera AND acc. for both
collapse down to a low shooting height and go up above 5 feet
REALLY REALLY SMOOTH PAN TILT
no leg joint wiggle
Carbon? or metal legs?

thanks guys. I need real world feedback...gotta make a purchase soon and sell this shit I am using now.

thanks

sorry if it's OT here. but I am trying to buy for the future and for now.

[Ivan G]

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1062&highlight=oconnor

[Tonaci Tran]

1030hd oconnor. hands down.

I personally have the cartoni gamma (focus' bigger brother) and I got it for 2300 used (in perfect condition). If I had to buy new, 1030hd all the way.

[Greg M]

OConnor is pretty much the standard that all else is measured by.

Try this head:
http://www.ocon.com/products/fluid-heads/2575c.html

It is an excellent choice. We use Oconnor on all our film shoots. I also own two Sachtlers which are also nice heads, but prefer the Oconnors.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I also have to vote for O'Connor. I went through a tripod ordeal a month or so back (long detailed thread in the OT section). In the end, I waited to see what came new from NAB... Nothing really. I rented a Vinten Vision kit in a pinch and it wasn't bad at all, but nowhere as nice as the O'Connor 1030 I'm looking to buy.

As for sticks -- carbon fiber seems the best choice. They're light and strong and dampen vibrations. Heavier legs may still be desirable for studio settings or if you're going to be also using them for mounting heavy jibs or whatnot.

[Greg M]

BTW- the 1030 is a fine head too...but keep this in mind when buying a head;

If you buy a head that is too small and you want to expand your package to include a larger zoom and more accessories you will quickly outgrow it. If you buy a bigger head than you think you will need, you can always grow into it. Of course it all depends on your budget, and these can get quite expensive. The advantage to the 2575 (or even 2060) is they will work great with a 20lb rig (or a 5lb rig)....but also support up to 60-80 lbs if you ever need to rent a 435 or add a large zoom to your Red.

Just something to consider...I will be adding a 2575 to my package.

[Evin Grant]

A slightly cheaper option is the Vinten Vision series, the 11 is probably the best match for a fully pimped red. I personally love my Vision 6 setup. However I agree the O'Connors are the shit!
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=294277&is=REG&addedTroughType=search

[Clayton Harper]

There's an 1030b on ebay for $3700:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Oconnor-1030B-Like-Sachtler-Cartoni-Vinten-Miller_W0QQitemZ280107695775QQihZ018QQcategoryZ211 65QQcmdZViewItem

[Christian Ford]

REALLY REALLY SMOOTH PAN TILT

I suppose it's overkill, but nothing compares with wheels. You can pick up a second hand geared head for less than one of those spiffy O'Connors (new).

[Litzwire]

This is redundant, but spend what you have to to get a good condition Oconnor 1030. I don't know what it is, but I have used tripods from $3000-$15000, and no matter what it is or what situation, my Oconnor 1030 beats it. The only thing better would be....a better OConnor. If you're going to be moving around some, get the quick release Oconnor legs. Do not skimp on this! You will be wasting your time if you do, because eventually you'll have to come back to....you guess it...the OConnor.

[Jeff Deveraux]

The 1030b (or HD) is a sweet rig. However, it is rated at 30 lbs. A fully decked out RED will weigh more in the 40 lb. range and the rail system will add two or so inches to the height of the center of gravity.

[bartmans]

I picked up a good old (very) used Sachtler 7+7 studio II under 1000€. ok, it's old and there are quite a few dents in the paintwork but it beats any head under 6000€ new price. someday maybe a small geared head will be joining the sachtler.
trust me, you'll need a good sturdy head to accomodate a fully equipped redcam with big lenses, remote, mattebox, LCD and your reddrive and all..
spending all that good money on a camera and than being unable to make nice shots because your heads too light sounds kinda stupid..
i love working with the o'connor heads too, especially the big 2575, great stuff but very very expensive.. too expensive for me.

[Obin Olson]

you guys really ARE the shit! I mean look at this OT thread, and the reply amount I am getting!

thanks Gents!

from one camera geek to the other.

I can't stand my tripod making me look like a total newbie because it can't deal with a heavy paypoad ;)

thanks!

[Obin Olson]

what do you think of the ebay special stick this one comes with:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Oconnor-1030B-Like-Sachtler-Cartoni-Vinten-Miller_W0QQitemZ280107695775QQihZ018QQcategoryZ211 65QQcmdZViewItem

[Finner]

Those stix actually work fairly well. The 1030 has too light of a max lb rating at 30 though.

[Obin Olson]

arrgg...even for Red? I am going to be using slr lenses and a basic lightweight mattebox..will that not be under 30lb? not using big heavy cinelenses

[Finner]

arrgg...even for Red? I am going to be using slr lenses and a basic lightweight mattebox..will that not be under 30lb? not using big heavy cinelenses

What about the days you do want to use heavier gear? This head will probably treat you well for a few years until you start to use heavier gear (and you will) but even with the light gear the way the red camera production plate lifts the camera this causes it to have a higher balance point which means you need a beefier head. even as light as possible a 1030 will just keep you happy (IMO).

[Steve Gibby]

For maxo-accessory cine-style work the 1030 may be a bit shy on supported weight capacity, but for almost all EFP set-up work the 1030 should be just fine. A typical EFP setup on RED One should have a weight of between 15 and 24 pounds.

[Finner]

For maxo-accessory cine-style work the 1030 may be a bit shy on supported weight capacity, but for almost all EFP set-up work the 1030 should be just fine. A typical EFP setup on RED One should have a weight of between 15 and 24 pounds.

Hi Steve, missed you at NAB. I tried to find ya but could not. I agree with you here that the weight will be okay but I think with the way RED has built the mounting plate/ shoulder mount that the elevated balance point will really start to stress a 30lb head to the max with anything around the 22lb mark.

Your thoughts?

[Steve Gibby]

Hi Steve, missed you at NAB. I tried to find ya but could not. I agree with you here that the weight will be okay but I think with the way RED has built the mounting plate/ shoulder mount that the elevated balance point will really start to stress a 30lb head to the max with anything around the 22lb mark.

Your thoughts?

Yeah, I was there on Monday and Tuesday, looked for you, but somehow missed.

Good point on the load factor. I think for anyone who does a broad range of the cine-style and EFP style production that RED One enables, including the need for real mobile work, that a two tripod kit has to be the ideal answer: 1) a light to mid load EFP tripod with carbon fiber sticks that can be real mobile 2) a heavyweight head and sticks like an O'Connor 2060 or 2575 for more stationary, heavy load cine work. That probably going to be my approach, then I just select the tripod that best fits each particular project.

One modification of that, for a tighter budget, would be to get a good mid-range head, like an O'Connor 1030HD, and two sets of sticks for the head, a heavy set for stationary work, and a lighter carbon fiber set for mobile work.

I buy most of my tripods used and re-conditioned. I hate taking the new hit on price for tripods.

You were checking into a Sachtler 7 + 7 awhile back. What were your conclusions on that? It's a good head...

[Finner]

Ya Steve the 7+7 will treat me well

Oh have to go the ball&chain is calling for me to cook, the BBQ awaits

[Obin Olson]

thx for info gents. I think I will see if I can buy that Oconnor on ebay!

and have it shipped overnight for a commercial shoot next week!

[Obin Olson]

Hey guys, anyone know Transylvania films in burbank CA? this Ebay guy with the Oconnor says he is with them...really thick accent on the phone..not sure I trust him...??

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I agree with others about the O'Connor 1030 being a little 'small' for a full RED setup. But I think it's the one I'm going with -- It will fit my needs most of the time. If I need something bigger, I'll rent something bigger. I can't really justify the cost of the 2060 (where does one even find a 2575, I think they're discontinued???). Nor do I want to lug it around all the time as I plan to be fairly mobile with my RED.

[Spinflight]

The 2060 is my first choice. The fact that the counterbalance can go to zero makes all the difference for lighter cameras. I may be wrong but I don't think you can take the counterbalance down far enough on the 1060 for lighter cameras should the need arise. The 2575 is simply overkill.

The 1060 on my last shoot with the HVX was a pain because we couldn't get the counterbalance low enough. Nothing worse than fighting the resistance of the spring. If you get the the 2060 you'll never need anything else. It fits the whole bill. A little expensive but once you've used everything else out there you'll see why. The 2060 will be your pride and joy. And it'll last forever.

[Obin Olson]

thank you! i will buy it from him

[Obin Olson]

getting this:

http://www.ocon.com/products/tripods/25l.html

for $875 from Mike instead of the legs om ebay. Hope that is a deal, the head from ebay will stay at $3700

[PaulClements]

Yeah it's a good price Obin, those legs usually retail for about $2000

[PaulClements]

Brand new of course

[Clint Johnson]

Seeing as how I'm a cash strapped indie guy, I was happy to find a battle scarred, but smooth functioning, old O'Connor 50 with some sturdy wooden sticks.

It ain't pretty but the 50s are tanks that just keep on working... and for $395 I'll be willing to pretty it up with some new paint and wood finish.

[Obin Olson]

Paul all I can say is I hope this setup will make me look good! I need SUPER SMOOTH moves! ;) it was a bogen, then the cartoni. I SURE hope this is the last sticks I will ever buy for a smallish camera setup!!

$4700 our the door overnight!

boy does the HVX Panasonic camera's image SUCK after looking at the RED shots...arggg...makes me want to throw up! been shooting green screen today with it. My brother HATES keying it! even at 1080 and scaleing to SD or 1280 it's realy crappy looking, and he is a master comp. artist

[Brian Ferguson]

I am a bit late to this thread.
I talked to the marketing guy from O'Connor at NAB he came to our booth because all of the inquirys they were getting from reservation holders. In the lighter basic configuration the 1030 is fine. As people could see from our displays the full "MacDaddy" rig was on a 2060. In my opinion the 2575 is pretty much overkill for the RED ONE. You can use it dialed down no problem but I wouldn't want to buy it. No doubt this is some expensive hardware new, if you can find it used it is easy to get them overhauled at the factory. An older Sachtler 7+7 would work really well. I used to use that head with an ARRI 35-3 and 25-250 Angineux lenses and it was a great head. O'Connor was very helpful to us for the show and they are really close to our offices so it was very convenient. The O'Connor rep said that based on the percentage we had dialed on the counterbalance we were in the middle of that heads range on our big rig configuration. As for the older Ocon 50, well good luck.
Remember that center of gravity, height of your rig, is just as important as weight.

Brian Ferguson

[Clint Johnson]

As for the older Ocon 50, well good luck.
Remember that center of gravity, height of your rig, is just as important as weight.

Brian Ferguson

Yes, it is a heavy brute and I'll probably be hanging sand most of the time just to get the center of gravity down low... cue the 120 fps footage of me crying out "NNNNNNNNOOOOOOOO" as I leap in a futile effort to save my camera from tipping over the 50 foot waterfall.

I'm actually looking to use a 50' waterfall as a location, shooting from both the bottom and from right alongside the water at the top edge.

Maybe I'll tether that sucker as well.

[Obin Olson]

Brian, are you saying I will need more head? oh...um....sorry that did not come out right!

lol

[Leo Ticheli]

On the dolly, I use my O'Connor 2575; I've found none better.

For running around, I've found the Vinten Fibertec legs to be both lightweight and rigid. I've mounted them with a Viten Vision 100 head; adequate capacity, smooth, and lightweight enough to fly on the mini-jib.

Yes, I still have my old geared head, but rarely bring it out. When you have to stop a pan dead on a mark, it's close to motion control.

Good shooting and best regards to all,

Leo

[Steve Gibby]

Leo...is your last name Ticheli by any chance?

[Leo Ticheli]

Hi Steve!

It's me.

I'm happy to be in such fine company; if I were as smart as you, I'd have a lower reservation number!

Good shooting!

Leo

[Steve Gibby]

Hey Leo,

Welcome to RED User! I think I'm a lot more lucky than smart if the truth be known. Something just impressed me to make a move early in adopting RED - and it is now turning out to have been a very good move.

I've really enjoyed your input on the Creative Cow High End HD forum. I think you'll find RED User to be full of people who are eager to both help and learn. A longtime motion media industry veteran like yourself will be a very valuable contributor here.

Again welcome!

[dalemccready]

I tend toward Oconnor 5275C heads, really smooth control in close ups with no lumpiness at all, very little servicing needed (compared to Sachtlers).

They're fairly large heads and I have come across situations where I started to do a shoot with a Pana GII and had to switch from the Oconnor to a Sachtler as the Oconnors don't have enough counter spring to pull back a GII with a zoom on. Thats the only time I've switched though, and apparently the new Oconnor addresses this.

For the Red weight the 5275C should be perfect, and I'd match it with a set of Schultz legs from Germany but with a custom spreader made by Ross West here in New Zealand.

[Obin Olson]

one word. WOW, got my setup today and........WOW...I guess I really had NO idea what a good tripod feels like. money well spent? well, if you want good moves and you make your living as I do from your camera work a resounding YES would be appropriate!

OMG this thing is as SWEET as a RED camera !

[Steve Gibby]

Very cool Obin. When you get your RED camera you now have a good head/sticks combo to use it on.

Happiness is a good tripod...

Treat it well and it should last you forever...

[Obin Olson]

Thanks Gibbs! I hope this one does last forever. it sure is nice...looking forward to mounting the head on a hi-hat and shooting from a dolly in our next commercial shoot. I am sure I will get the best moves I have ever shot..:)