Home Theatre Advice Please

[Brent J. Craig]

Hi guys,

My basement reno is almost finished and I am ready to start buying toys (Oops, I mean important tools for my work!).

I have designed one room to be a home theatre, complete with a reinforced wall to hang a big TV and in-wall wiring for 7.1 sound, cable, ethernet, satellite, etc. The TV wall has inset shelving for video gear and a room behind it for easy hookups and a complete wire-free appearance from the viewing side.

Now here is where Reduser comes in. I have come to value everyone's advice and opinions. What should I get and why? I can spend around $5000-6000.

I am almost completely sold on the Panasonic Plasmas, specifically a TH-50PZ850 or TH-50PZ800. 1 Million to 1 dynamic contrast (30,000 to 1 normal contrast) over 900 lines of in-motion resolution, and 480Hz updates on each pixel. Do you think THX certification is important or not? Anyone know if "Studio Reference Mode Pro" is comparable? The Pioneer Kuro's look slightly better but are out of my price range.

I am looking into mid-range 7.1 or 7.2 HDMI receivers. I like the Marantz's, but I need 4 HDMI inputs. Onkyo's have lots of bang for the buck but many reports of repair nightmares online. Some of the Pioneers seem nice. Any advice?

How about speakers? Kromer Radio in Toronto has some good deals on Mordaunt-Short and Paradigm. THX recommends bi-polar speakers for the sides - is that a good idea for a smallish room?

I'm considering a PS3 for BluRay, but maybe a Panasonic BluRay player would be better so the TV remote can talk to it.

Anyone using the Scientific Atlanta 8300 HD DVR with their cable company? Will I like it? Do the Esata ports work for extended storage?

Any and all advice is appreciated. Thanks!

BJC

[Christian Tanner]

this is absolutely not my area of expertise.
however though - my flatmate bought a 50" plus plasma recently. what you probably won't find in the manufacturars manual and/or website, is the noise levels of the power suply unit
...and let me say this - ours is realy noisy.

tanner

[Ethan Cooper]

We bought a Panasonic plasma last Christmas and love it. Looks great.

Also, I don't know about you, but I'd get the PS3 since it can play games, be networked to your computers and ummm... well it's cooler. And I'm sure you can buy some type of remote control adapter thingie for it.
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[Peter McCully]

Front projection is so good now and it's far more cinematic. Why not watch a 120 inch image in 1080p?

[mikeburton]

Front projection is so good now and it's far more cinematic. Why not watch a 120 inch image in 1080p?

I would have to agree! However, the tradeoff is your going to spend around $2,500-$5,000 on a good 1080p projector, projection screen. But, if you have the budget and the space do it its the best option. I was going to do this for my office and have 80 inches of projection from my computer to the wall in front of my desk for a FCP viewing monitor but then I realized it would be like sitting front row in a normal theatre, my office is too small.

Otherwise, the plasmas are good but will be really expensive over 52'. I vote for PS3 since its an all in one and they do sell a remote for it. I hear they make some decent wireless sound systems these days but I'm not sure which direction to point you for consumer level stuff. I guess the local fry's, bestbuy, etc.
Don't forget the RED carpet and the popcorn machine!

[Steven Caesare]

What is your goal? Are yo udoing color correction in here, or watching movies/sports/TV, etc...

I second projection... your budget would allow for a spectacualr projector/screen combo. Nothing like movies on a big(ger) screen if you rroom allows for it.

I have a 133" projector setup in my basement, and compared to 50-60" flat screens, the difference is huge.

http://caesare.homeip.net/basement/slides/IMG_2123.jpg

[Graeme Nattress]

I went with both the projector and the plasma. Direct view on a smaller (50") screen for less than perfect sources, and a nice big 100" screen for movies, that pulls down in front of the plasma. I'm actually enjoying the Panasonic plasma a lot - nice image, good blacks, and working great with an Apple TV (running XBMC).

Graeme

[Alan Skinner]

I am with Graeme,

You will want both.

I am just finishing up new studio build. (Taping and Texturing now)

Spent a lot of sleepless nights on perfect wiring. finally went with a lot of CAT6 from A/V rack and will use baluns for transferring different signals. I alos put in a large conduit between the tv wall and A/V area to pull additional/new technology circuits as they become available.

I am going to use my Fujitsu 42 plasma for now and am installing a projector and screen. I also am installing a pull down green chroma screen for keying work.

Bose makes really nice speakers for the room. They have some really nice flush mounts that will install into 2x4 walls between the studs. Good for retro fitting into existing walls.

I also went with PS3 and they do have a remote you can get. The new Blu-Ray 2.0 standard requires Internet connection and hard drive for full use of all new features so you do not want to buy any set top that is not capable of the new BDLive 2.0 standards. The PS3 is ready for BDLive.

Good luck on your choices.

I will post pics when I get done.




I went with both the projector and the plasma. Direct view on a smaller (50") screen for less than perfect sources, and a nice big 100" screen for movies, that pulls down in front of the plasma. I'm actually enjoying the Panasonic plasma a lot - nice image, good blacks, and working great with an Apple TV (running XBMC).

Graeme

[Alan Skinner]

Hey scaesare,

Nice theatre setup man!

[Steven Caesare]

Hey scaesare,

Nice theatre setup man!

Thanks! Your build sounds nice as well.

Pics of all the gory build details at http://caesare.homeip.net/basement/ for those interested.

[Graeme Nattress]

8111

I've only just started on my room, but this picture shows some of it working.

Graeme

[Steven Caesare]

Very cool Graeme!

[Cameron Preyde]

Whatever solution you do choose to go with, I think a question that is just as important as the technicalities is this....

What will be the first movie you watch on this awesome setup, and if I agree to bring the popcorn, can I come and watch it with you???

[Wil Klassen]

Hah, come on RED users! Let's see everyone's "man cave" :)

Crewpix, I'd say lean towards a PS3 for blu-ray, the network connectivity will continually update to the latest blu-ray firmwires, unlike *most* blu-ray players which will always be at whatever spec they are released at. So when 100GB blu-ray disc's come out, bam, no problem for PS3 owners.

[David Nardini]

So what are the top 3 choices for a good 1080p projector (taking input from a PS3) ?

Cheers

[Alan Skinner]

Crewpix,

That is not necessarily true. My Sony BluRay BD-301 updated firmware by downloading an iso image of a CDRom from website and placing it into the machine. Machine recognized the disk as firmware update disk and updated to latest version.


Hah, come on RED users! Let's see everyone's "man cave" :)

Crewpix, I'd say lean towards a PS3 for blu-ray, the network connectivity will continually update to the latest blu-ray firmwires, unlike *most* blu-ray players which will always be at whatever spec they are released at. So when 100GB blu-ray disc's come out, bam, no problem for PS3 owners.

[Alan Skinner]

PS3 has HDMI out so that might be a good way to go to projector.

Dell has some good deals and you can PM me for my Dell rep's email. He makes great deals! At least as good as you can get from the framework he has to operate in. I have an HD Dell projector in my classroom at the college and it is very bright and works flawlessly. I will be getting one for my "Man-Room" when it is done. (I only have SD projector right now) :(



So what are the top 3 choices for a good 1080p projector (taking input from a PS3) ?

Cheers

[Sidney L. Plaut]

for a budget setup which i just got after my fujitsu super plasma died...

I got a denon avr 380-8A surround receiver. It has 4 hdmi ports so everything goes through the receiver. DVD, blueray,xbox, sattelite. only one hdmi to the projector.
Also it has a image processor specific for deinterlacing and scaling that supposedly makes the image even better (took the guys word for it:)) - It sounds fantastic! - remember bad sound kills great movies.

I bought an infocus x10 - projector. its cheap (around 2k usd.) it looks really good - or really good for the money.

Ofcourse a really good plasma will look better but seriously having a 100" screen beats any 50" screen, for the sheer experience of having your own mini cinema. best toy i ever bought - And I had a fantastic 8000dollars fujitsu plasma - but size does matter!

[Jeff Kilgroe]

While we're at it, what are the opinions of the best 1080p/2K projector out there right now.

I just spent a bunch of time demoing the new PLANAR 8150 projector (MSRP about $16K) and it's getting rave reviews. However, I have to say that I was not impressed. The brightness and contrast and color were excellent. However, the internal image processor needs some serious work or something. I was getting some occasional sheering and image flicker that was produced within the projector. I questioned them about it and they insisted it was my setup and/ or a faulty demo unit. They proceeded to try and show me that it works fine with another of the same unit they just installed in their showroom and about 2 minutes into the guys playing a BD for me, some sheering happened and the sales rep had to eat his words. IMO, the JVC 3xDLP is a better unit for a lot less money even though it doesn't quite have the color that the PLANAR does.

For Blu-Ray player, I actually recommend the Sony BDP-S350. It's a lot cheaper than the PS3 and has superior audio abilities and better image processing than the PS3's BD software. It's $265 w/ free shipping from Amazon.com right now. Fully Profile 2.x compliant and upgradable via ethernet and with full BD Live support.

CrossProcessed, don't get too excited about 100GB Blu-Ray discs. They *WILL NOT* play in the PS3. Quad-layer BDs or 4 layers on a single side for 100GB capacity actually requires a more powerful laser diode and additional focusing abilities not available in any current players. A firmware / software upgrade will not fix this. Sony is not planning to introduce quad-layer to the home video market anytime soon anyway... They're saying possibly in 2010 once players are commonly below the $100 price point and BD media is beginning to out-sell DVD.

Sony will also start shipping the BDP-S550 next month and it is the same as the 350, but with additional audio options such as discreet analog multichannel output (up to 7.1) and an RS-232 port.

[Wil Klassen]

CrossProcessed, don't get too excited about 100GB Blu-Ray discs. They *WILL NOT* play in the PS3.



Where all are you getting your info on the 100 GB discs from Jeff?

http://www.dailytech.com/Hitachi+Develops+100GB+Bluray+Disc+Compatible+With +Existing+Drives/article9173.htm

There's talk of 8 and 16 layer that I would assume go beyond PS3's and current blu-ray's read-ability, but from my understanding quad layer READ is compatible with firmwire updateable players.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

My info comes directly from statements by Sony and Samsung. The quad-layer disc spec isn't even finalized yet and as of two months ago, prototypes still required a more powerful diode. The optical system within the player must be able to focus at a different depth for each layer.

BD spec allows up to a theoretical 12 layers in a disc and this has not been revised yet. 16 layers are just a myth unless someone has invented a new substrate medium to make layers out of. Only so many layers can physically fit without making the disc thicker.

Also the article you have referenced is a year old and was discussed last year as being erroneous, or more likely, lost in translation. If you read the Japanese / English tag in that image in the article or follow to the Japanese article, you'll see that it's a prototype multi-layer disc mechanism, with companion multi-layer disc.

To use true quad-layer discs, 100GB on a single side, the player needs to have the proper optics to focus at 4 separate depths. I am not aware of any players on the market that are capable of doing this. Sony has stated that none of their current models, including the PS3, are intended to do this. Anyone who has told you or has said that the PS3 will be upgradable to play quad-layer discs is just taking a wild-ass guess or is just making stuff up.

Quad layer discs are still in Sony's roadmap as a potential 2010 or later thing for home video, if ever. Many are expecting quad-layer discs to make an appearance next summer, along with companion drives, for writable media targeted at data storage and archival.

When it comes down to quad-layer compatibility on current players, I would not recommend buying in anticipation of such or hold your breath thinking that it will work with any current players.

[Brent J. Craig]

I got a denon avr 380-8A surround receiver

I assume this is the Denon AVR-3808 receiver?

Funny you should mention it because I just decided that the Denon it is the one for me. I loved the audio specs on the Marantz's, but I'm a gadget guy and the AVR-3808 has lots of cool features. It will also let me have independent stereo audio and composite video in my home office from the same receiver, which is an unexpected bonus! Denon is offering a free firmware upgrade to add Sirius Radio compatibility (apparently with an RS232 device), Audessy Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Voulme, Rhapsody music service, and HDMI-CEC controls. One shop is offering it to me at $1310 CAD. Seems like a good deal.

How about speakers? The folks with the Denon receiver have a great deal on a Mirage Nanosat 5.1 set, but they seem wimpy to me. I am drawn towards the Mordaunt-Short Avant series 5.1 package. What else should I be looking at?

Based on Graeme's mention of AppleTV, I did some research and have ordered a refurbished one cheap from Apple. I expect I will hack it until it is unrecognizable and at least have a good way to play downloads and stream iTunes.

I ordered a bunch of the cheapest HDMI cables I could find online. I don't subscribe to the monster cable hype. Ones and Zeros are ones and zeros, aren't they?!? They either arrive at their destination or they don't. Would $$150 HDMI cables give me fatter zeros and taller ones (or just a skinnier wallet)? :-)

Thanks for your help so far, everybody. This is fun!

[mikeburton]

I was told that the Monster cables (HDMI) carry more data throughput hence better signal/picture quality and audio quality. This could have been BS but thats what I was told. As long as its HDMI 1.3 I'm sure you will be okay and probably won't notice the difference.

[Graeme Nattress]

HDMI is HDMI to the spec it's made for. Paying $25 or $250 doesn't make a difference. Unless you get into the game of "comparing" an expensive cable of a higher spec with a cheaper cable of a lower spec and stating you'll get a better picture on the more expensive cable :-) But nobody would play games like that, would they?

It's like when see a demo in a store of an expensive cable, compared to a cheaper cable, and the image is much nicer on the expensive cable. But the cheap cable is a composite connection and the expensive one a HDMI or component connection. Nobody would try to pull the wool over your eyes like that, would they?

Graeme

[JD Holloway]

Have to say I love Klipsch speakers.
Balls to the walls Bass and unbelievable highend do to klipschhorns.

For some people they are to "bright" and/or to bassy.

I think they just plain rock and you should hear them against ANY speaker reguardless of cost. I did.

J.

[Graeme Nattress]

I'd love a pair of the big corner Klipschhorns! But no room or money for them. They'd go great with my tubes though. Enormous sound from them when I heard them at a show many years ago. My Lowther horns are big enough, really, although I'm still constructing some slightly larger Lowther horns....

Graeme

[Steven Caesare]

Hah, come on RED users! Let's see everyone's "man cave" :)

Crewpix, I'd say lean towards a PS3 for blu-ray, the network connectivity will continually update to the latest blu-ray firmwires, unlike *most* blu-ray players which will always be at whatever spec they are released at. So when 100GB blu-ray disc's come out, bam, no problem for PS3 owners.

Well... maybe. :wink:

Exactly how successful ANY of the existing optical mechanisms will be in rejecting crosstalk at anything >2 layers is yet to be determined... firmware or not.

[Steven Caesare]

{snip}

The new Blu-Ray 2.0 standard requires Internet connection and hard drive for full use of all new features so you do not want to buy any set top that is not capable of the new BDLive 2.0 standards. The PS3 is ready for BDLive.



A hard drive is NOT required as part of the BD Live 2.0 standard. Howver, at least 1 GB of non-volitile mass storage is. Some deck satisfy this with on-board flash, the PS3 or a PC ca use their hard drive, some decks require you to add a USB thumb drive.

-Steve

PS: I'd do some research before settling on Bose... they are not terribly well regarded for HT use. You can get alot more for your $$$.

[Steven Caesare]

So what are the top 3 choices for a good 1080p projector (taking input from a PS3) ?

Cheers

What's your budget?

Sony HW10, Sony VPL-VW70, the JVC RS2 or HD 350/750 units, and then Panny AE3000 are all well regarded units in the $3K plus catagory.

The Epson 1080/6100, Mits 5500, SanyoPLV2000 and Panny AE2000 are all under $3k and are nice.

There are tradeoffs with each model of course. I'd narrow down based on budget and room considerations, and then prioritize by featureset from there.

-Steve

[Steven Caesare]

HDMI is HDMI to the spec it's made for. Paying $25 or $250 doesn't make a difference. Unless you get into the game of "comparing" an expensive cable of a higher spec with a cheaper cable of a lower spec and stating you'll get a better picture on the more expensive cable :-) But nobody would play games like that, would they?

It's like when see a demo in a store of an expensive cable, compared to a cheaper cable, and the image is much nicer on the expensive cable. But the cheap cable is a composite connection and the expensive one a HDMI or component connection. Nobody would try to pull the wool over your eyes like that, would they?

Graeme

Indeed. I loves me some monoprice.com cables.

[Brent J. Craig]

Indeed. I loves me some monoprice.com cables.

I think I have found the Canadian equivalent of Monoprice cables. I'll let you know how they work out. 6 HDMI cables for $72 shipped. It's funny because the big-box store drones told me I am an idiot and wasting my home theatre without buying cables that are marked up 10,000%. The local mom and pop home theatre experts simply agreed and noted that Monster Cables were not needed on my quote.

I've given my Facebook friends 12 hours to talk me out of the Panasonic 50PZ800 Plasma and the Denon AVR-3808 Receiver. Anyone want to chime in?

Still stumped about speakers.

[Steven Caesare]

I think I have found the Canadian equivalent of Monoprice cables. I'll let you know how they work out. 6 HDMI cables for $72 shipped. It's funny because the big-box store drones told me I am an idiot and wasting my home theatre without buying cables that are marked up 10,000%. The local mom and pop home theatre experts simply agreed and noted that Monster Cables were not needed on my quote.

I've given my Facebook friends 12 hours to talk me out of the Panasonic 50PZ800 Plasma and the Denon AVR-3808 Receiver. Anyone want to chime in?

Still stumped about speakers.

I particularly like the Monster cable packaging showing how thier cables reduced ghosting, and improved color saturation (analog traits) on a box containing a DIGITAL HDMI cable... :umm:

Dunno much about that plasma, but I have a friend with that Denon and he likes it. It supports all the new bitstream codec formats, so you should be good to go.

Check out Onix Rockets for speakers...

-Steve

[donatello b]

i 3rd projection ... i project 106" .. do have 7.1 but have yet to come across a 7.1 disc ....

hot/excellent projector is the new panasonic 3000..list 3500 ..street price 2500 ..

http://www.projectorcentral.com/panasonic_ae3000_projector_review.htm

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I have been using Monoprice cables for years. I used to do tons of pro AV installations (mostly corporate / government) up until a few years ago and have had a very low failure rate with their cables. In fact, I actually had more problems before going to Monoprice cables when I used to use more mainstream brands. MonsterCable is all hype and I used to like to connect MonsterCable component and s.video cables to signal meters and test a wide variety of frequencies to show clients and then do the same with cables from other makers that are a lot cheaper -- RAM Electronics, BlueJeans Cable, Monoprice... It wasn't uncommon that the "cheap" cables out-performed the MonsterCable.

As for Graeme's AppleTV, I have to say that AppleTV is great if you know how to use it. I have one and actually run it un-hacked. I have popped the hood and installed a 320GB HDD though. I've ripped all my kids' DVDs and a lot of the stuff that gets watched often and placed it on the AppleTV using Handbrake. It does an excellent job and even maintains DolbyDigital 5.1 AC3 audio and 2.0 stereo mix in the same file, awesome. It takes about 30 minutes or so to rip an average DVD on an 8-core Mac Pro into H.264 for aTV and it's mostly lossless. I'm still playing with some settings because for some DVDs that are 60i from a video source or the cheap animated stuff the kids watch, I can get some interlacing artifacts on occasion. For Hollywood features with pulldown flags for 23.98, it does perfect conversions and I can only see a slight bit of softening when I scrutinize the rip on my 71" 1080p DLP. The AppleTV is great for the money, but I like their older interface better -- the new 2.0 interface kinda sucks.

Speakers, it's hard to recommend and a lot of that is personal preference. I like Klipsch, B&W, Definitive and others. I recommend a making one or two visits to a quality shop that can demo different speakers for you.

For receivers, I like Denon and Yamaha and actually the Denon are my favorite. Integra receivers are nice too, but I don't think their audio processing is as nice as Denon or Yamaha. Denon is a bit more natural sounding overall, Yamaha is a little "brighter" is the term usually thrown around to describe it. I can't stand the audio reproduction out of the receivers from Sony, Onkyo, LG / Marantz or Panasonic. Pioneer Elite receivers are nice too, but I still prefer Denon and Yamaha, which are usually more capable and a lot less money. Beyond that, we can get into more specialized hardware that sounds amazing by comparison, but then we're talking lots of big money.

Denon AVR-3808CI. It's awesome. I wouldn't recommend anything else in that price range.

I haven't found any discs with 7.1 audio either, yet. Most everything is still 5.1, some 6.0/6.1 DTS stuff out there, but it's kinda rare. In fact, I've found most releases have lackluster audio and they're often mastered to sound good on those little home theatre in a box systems rather than good reference or THX compliant surround systems. Some discs have absolutely amazing sound mixes (Attack of the Clones) and some have been big disappointments (Batman Begins). Batman pisses me off because it had such good sound design to match the visuals. It's a very good Blu-Ray transfer, but the BD Dolby surround mix is just weak. Hopefully they do better with The Dark Knight.

The Panasonic Pz8xx plasmas are really nice. The only other ones out there that are better are the Pioneer Elite (more expensive), but the Panny probably still has better color reproduction overall, while the Pioneer tends to handle fine details better. You can't go wrong with the Panny...