Super Grip Question

[Spinflight]

From the pictures I've seen of the Super Grip, It seems to only have buttons. Wouldn't it seem a bit more intuitive to have a thumb slider for focus control. Seeing as how jumping from button to button to focus doesn't translate to smooth precise adjustments. By having a thumb slider, the camera op could pull focus rather easily. Anyone else have the same thoughts?

[Michael Ragen]

There is a microforce type joystick thingy on it. For some reasons it isn't on the photos on Hdforindies.com. I saw it at NAB though.

[Spinflight]

Thanks. If anyone has a picture of it or actually used it, I'd like to know your thoughts.

[Priyesh P.]

Here´s one

[Spinflight]

Thanks for the pic. A pressure sensitive joystick makes sense. I'm sure it's user programmable as well to dictate focus direction.

[Priyesh P.]

You´re welcome.
BTW, Curt said that those units at display were only plastic ones that came from the rapid prototyping machine - that means no working units so far.

Priyesh

[Álex Montoya]

What's a supergrip?

[Andrew M.]

What's a supergrip?

I think it has something to do with girlfriend....

[Álex Montoya]

It's for shooting ENG style?

[Andrew M.]

Yes, anytime you have the camera on your shoulder, ENG included.

[Steve Gibby]

It's for shooting ENG style?

Or more accurately, EFP style. RED One will have very limited ENG use, but extensive utility in multiple genres of non-hardlined EFP, and to a certain extent, hardlined EFP. If you're confused about the dividing lines between non-hardlined EFP, hardlined EFP, and ENG, my "EFP and ENG Definitions and Explanations" sticky at the head of the EFP and ENG for RED forum may answer those questions.

I think the Super Grip will have great utilitarian value for EFP style production with RED One. I will definitely be getting one.

[Álex Montoya]

But in the NAB pics of ppl with it on the soulder ir wasn't present, did it? They were just using the RED rail...

[Steve Gibby]

RED One will have the capability of being accessorized and lensed in a broad array of cine style and EFP style configurations. In essence, set it up for the projects at hand, then re-configure it for the next project. The setups at NAB were only a few of the setup combinations possible and available for RED One. Don't assume that we're limited to what you have seen in pics so far. Beyond the RED accessories, its inevitable that there will also be a continuous parade of 3rd party accessories developed for RED One. The scalability, flexibility, and resulting broad utility of RED One is the core strength and appeal of the system.

[Stuart English]

We brought a couple of non-operational prototypes of the SuperGrip to NAB to get some feedback on functionality and price points.

Pricing and delivery dates for SuperGrip and RED MOTOR will be announced later.

The buttons on the SuperGrip act as extensions to the camera control surfaces, i.e the buttons can be programmed to do whatever you want them to do - White Balance, Clip Replay etc etc The force sensitive key can be attached to a number of devices - motors, audio levels, shutter speeds - whatever is most appropriate to your application.

[Steve Gibby]

Excellent...thanks for that added info Stuart!

[Steve Gibby]

I can see the SuperGrip and RED Motor dancing quite well with the RED 18-50 CF zoom and RED primes for mobile shoulder mount and stabilization unit work.

[Stuart English]

That same comment about these buttons being extensions of the camera control surface can also be applied to the RED EVF viewfinder keys and potentiometer BTW....

[Priyesh P.]

Stuart, are the motors directly connected to the supergrip or to some kinda control box? I read that it can only control two motors, is that correct?

[CVB]

Yes, the motors have amplifiers built in so there is no need for a control box when used with the supergrip. It has support for two motor simultaneous control.

[Stuart English]

And if you need three motor control - its not EFP - Curt's company has a complete MOCO solution and a wireless capable Pendant controller that are compatible with RED MOTORs. In that case there is an interface box.

[Priyesh P.]

Thanks Curt!

Edit: And thanks Stuart, too

[Rob Lohman]

Can't wait to do some moco with a RED ONE :D

[Spinflight]

Curt, didn't I read somewhere a while back about a slider you were creating?

[Brook Willard]

I'd be interested in a slider... if it didn't cost as much as the ones I've used in the past! Of course, knowing Curt... I think it'd be fine.

[CVB]

Well, the moco head that we are making has external axis outputs for roll and dolly. It would be easy enough to use the dolly axis to control a slider. If you guys want something thats standalone then its going to be a few months until we can get to it. Rob... within a month or two I think we'll have some glorious 4K moco shots :)

[tj williams]

If the drivers are in the motor then the interface box is just a receiver?
If so nice as it will be smaller lighter than the Preston fiz?
Interchangeable gears on the motors 32 for film and Canon fuji also?

Maybe the super grip will fit onto the wireless like this?

http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/751_1177989111.jpg

also maybe the supergrip will have an accessory or itself attach to either the front rod for handheld or to a tripod
pan handle for zoom while working from the rear of the camera?

Zoom focus and Iris control!!!!!!!

[CVB]

TJ, yes, the interface box for the wireless is only to get power to all the motors and connect all the motors to the same serial bus. The entire receiver unit will be about the size of a deck of cards and weigh practically nothing. The motors come with 0.4, 0.5, 0.6, and 0.8 pitch gears - that should cover just about anything. The remote will be much lighter than the Preston and should be smaller (still locking down the final form)

I wouldn't worry about hooking the supergrip into the remote because it will have a force sensor option already. The remote will be able to control Zoom, Focus, and Iris.

[tj williams]

32 pitch 20 degree is for film lenses. Some lenses have 48 pitch on the
iris. Then Fuji Canon Zeiss have some different sizes. So .4 .5 .6 .8 covers them all?

How will the unit change gears?

We have a fiz. I've also used the bartek the form factor of the fiz is quite nice
It's so important for the asst to both carry it easily on the lanyard and also have room to hold it while making the iris and focus movements. Small and light is nice but ruggedness and a place to hold on are also important.

Will the unit auto set to lenses and hold position so the same markings can work again when the lens goes back on later?

Also just for the Nikor/Canon crowd... since these lenses have very short focus throws will we have the capability to stretch the short throw over the whole rotation of the controller? This is also handy in iris pulls with film style lenses...

[Priyesh P.]

Curt, any idea about how much the motors weigh?
I´ve seen signification differences between Heden, Arri, Bartech etc.
Could be nice to know for those people who have a Steadicam that is scratching it´s weight limit.

[johannperry]

Will you be able to use it to control lenses too?

[Paul Hazlett]

Ok so we have the supergrip and it can be user selectable as to what it controls correct? now is there the ability to separate lens focus and iris
control so you can control both at the same time while holding the supergrip and say an auxillary hand grip with a controller on it.

[Stuart English]

A single SuperGrip can control one motor at a time. You could use two SuperGrips. Or you can use an external controller - like the Pendant controller or MOCO systems discussed.

Yes to the user selection of controls...

[Clint Johnson]

Let's not forget that the SuperGrip is supposed to work with Birger's EOS adapter as well.

Being all poor indie dude, this is the option that I am really aiming for. While it will be able to control both the aperture and the focus on my L lenses, one of
the compromises I have to make comes from the stepper motors used inside the still camera lens for adjusting aperture. There will be no rackin' the f for Clint, so I'll only be riding the focus while shooting anyway.

Also, isn't the SuperGrip being designed to be:

* Mounted on the Red Rail
* Mounted on the end of a pan arm on the tripod
* Hand held when the Red camera is:
-----*Out on the end of a jib
-----*Hanging from under a helicopter
-----*Flying on an Actioncam
-----*Placed too close to the explosions for human safety

... pretty much wherever you can string the control cable?

[CVB]

32 pitch 20 degree is for film lenses. Some lenses have 48 pitch on the iris. Then Fuji Canon Zeiss have some different sizes. So .4 .5 .6 .8 covers them all? I will verify. If we need to make some extra gear pitches it shouldn't add much cost.


How will the unit change gears?They will have a click and lock setup that requires no tools.


Will the unit auto set to lenses and hold position so the same markings can work again when the lens goes back on later?The motors auto calibrate to find the limits of the lens each time you change out the motors. Even if we have the lens information we would still need to find the limits. Is there a better way that I missing here?



Also just for the Nikor/Canon crowd... since these lenses have very short focus throws will we have the capability to stretch the short throw over the whole rotation of the controller? This is also handy in iris pulls with film style lenses...We can do that. There will be a scaling function that adjusts the range of travel on the knob relative to the lens.



Curt, any idea about how much the motors weigh?
I´ve seen signification differences between Heden, Arri, Bartech etc.
Could be nice to know for those people who have a Steadicam that is scratching it´s weight limit. The RED motors are currently 330 grams. There might be a few opportunities for improvement but its not far off the average....

Heden M28VP 290g
Heden M28VPT 290g
Heden M28VT 348g
Preston DM1 415g
Preston DM2 290g
Palomar M-One 370g

AVERAGE 333.83g

[Priyesh P.]

The motors auto calibrate to find the limits of the lens each time you change out the motors. Even if we have the lens information we would still need to find the limits. Is there a better way that I missing here?
I don´t think so. Here´s a little clip demonstrating the Arri LCS which does it´s calibration just like this. ( takes a few moments to load )http://www.theasc.com/store/templates/mov/ARRICAMDVD/clip6.html



The RED motors are currently 330 grams. There might be a few opportunities for improvement but its not far off the average....

Heden M28VP 290g
Heden M28VPT 290g
Heden M28VT 348g
Preston DM1 415g
Preston DM2 290g
Palomar M-One 370g

AVERAGE 333.83g

Thanks for the info!
I probably had the number of the Arri CLM-1 in mind ( 630 gr. ) and confused it with the CLM-2 ( 280 gr. ).
If of any interest, here are some infos ( incl. weights, components etc. ) on Arri´s LCS
http://www.arri.com/infodown/cam/broch/wrs_e.pdf

Priyesh

[Stuart English]

"I don´t think so. Here´s a little clip demonstrating the Arri LCS which does it´s calibration just like this."

But running the lenses to the end stop is exactly what the demonstrator says is happening in this video -

"You have to press the calibration button, so both motors attached to the lens are looking for the stop position of the lens"

[CVB]

Stuart, I think Priyesh was saying that I got it right.. Most of the motors on the market do calibrate themselves. There is no way to get the motors sync'd to the position on the lens gear other than moving the lens to its limits and having the motor know what the values are at the limits. Arri has lens data that makes it so the user doesn't have to manually mark the positions of the lens relative to the controller.

[Priyesh P.]

Stuart, I think Priyesh was saying that I got it right.. Most of the motors on the market do calibrate themselves. There is no way to get the motors sync'd to the position on the lens gear other than moving the lens to its limits and having the motor know what the values are at the limits. Arri has lens data that makes it so the user doesn't have to manually mark the positions of the lens relative to the controller.

Sorry for misunderstanding, I´m not a native english speaker.
Yes, I wanted to confirm Curt´s observation.