Dx Lenses, Aps-c

[Shawn Bannon]

sorry if I missed a thread posted about this already. will the dx lenses of canon or nikon cover REDS super 35mm sensor? from what I read the dx size is slightly larger than REDS super 35mm, but would like to make sure.

[J. Bernard Vallon]

DX would cover RED sensors, the trouble is all (i'm pretty sure all) DX lenses have no manual aperture control, which is nessisary.

However, RED is pretty demanding on the resolution of lenses, and using lenses designed for full frame 35mm will give you better results, because your shooting in the sweet-spot of the lens.

[Chris Kenny]

Of course, Canon's digital-only lenses should work fine, since the Birger EOS adaptor should be able to control their apertures, just as with any other EOS lenses.

[Evin Grant]

I believe Birger will eventually make a Nikon G/AFS adapter too. But because it requires a servo it will be a little longer.

[Shawn Bannon]

thanks for the answers, sounds good. this canon eos set-up could be an interesting solution. does anybody know how the remote focus will work with the canon lenses? will it most likely drive an experienced camera assistant mad?

[Júlio Taubkin]

I think it would be great if somebody developed some way to put a Nikkor 18-200 VR (or any VR lens) on a RED... I'll keep my fingers crossed! Would VR even work for moving images? :D

[Chris Kenny]

Would VR even work for moving images?

Not in any useful sense. VR lets you shoot longer exposures without worrying about motion blur caused by camera shake... but changing your shutter speed also, of course, has effects on the motion blur of moving objects in the scene. Shooting 1/24 instead of 1/48 is still going to look quite different.

I'm also not sure how VR would react to deliberate camera movements. Badly, probably.

[Júlio Taubkin]

VR lets you shoot longer exposures without worrying about motion blur caused by camera shake... Yeah, it's a stabilizer no?

So maybe it helps stabilize the images... But of course, there are higher chances it just produces some crazy "counter"moves...

[Clint Johnson]

Not in any useful sense. VR lets you shoot longer exposures without worrying about motion blur caused by camera shake... but changing your shutter speed also, of course, has effects on the motion blur of moving objects in the scene. Shooting 1/24 instead of 1/48 is still going to look quite different.

I'm also not sure how VR would react to deliberate camera movements. Badly, probably.

Just playing around with one of Canon's newer L lenses, the stabilizer is working continuously to smooth out motion as soon as the shutter is partially depressed. At 300mm it is extremely noticeable and even with a still camera that isn't designed for control while moving, I'm able to flow relatively smoothly along a straight line on any axis.

I have no idea how Birger Engineering will make use of this but as long as the lens doesn't think that a shutter has been released I don't think that it will do anything funky while we are shooting. It should just adjust for minor trembling and twitching.

It does make a noise while working but it is faint enough to go unnoticed in all but the quietest environments. If you are shooting a whispered conversation in a steel box and have to mix stabilized and un-stabilized footage you can:

Get a tone of the motor and throw it under everything in the scene
If you have the budget or knowhow you can try to cancel it out in post
ADR and foley the scene.

It is quiet enough that I'd personally just put it under everything in that scene... unless the scene called for uncomfortable and oppressive silence.

[Erik Widding]

Just playing around with one of Canon's newer L lenses, the stabilizer is working continuously to smooth out motion as soon as the shutter is partially depressed. At 300mm it is extremely noticeable and even with a still camera that isn't designed for control while moving, I'm able to flow relatively smoothly along a straight line on any axis.

I have no idea how Birger Engineering will make use of this but as long as the lens doesn't think that a shutter has been released I don't think that it will do anything funky while we are shooting. It should just adjust for minor trembling and twitching.


Clint, you make a good point. This test you describe is as close to what we actually do with the stabilizer in the lens. If you like what the lens does in "shutter button half pressed" mode, you will like what the lens will do while on the EOS mount on a RED camera.

When I was at RED a couple weeks ago, Jim had the 28-135mm lens set at 135mm, mounted on our adapter prototype on Natasha. He was quite visibly, quite pruposefully, shaking the tripod handle up and down, and the stabilized image looked fantastic. It is counterintuitive, but the tripod is not the ideal way to get an idea of just how good the stabilization is. Handheld, the performance of the stabilization is actually better.

There is a lot of misinformation (or maybe just ill-informed speculation) floating around on this board regarding the use of stabilization, and the use of still lenses in general, for motion imaging. I think most people are going to be very pleased with the results. As soon as the first cameras with the EOS mount ship, I think many are going to see value in this feature, even if it is only for a small number of shots.

Thanks for pointing this out. The other important detail, the first generation IS is good (i.e. the 75-300mm). The newer IS is night and day better, when it comes to natural (low frequency) movement such as panning and tilting.

Last thing... if you don't want the IS engaged on any shot, just flip the switch on the lens to off. The adapter will respect your decision.:)

[Clint Johnson]

Hi Erik,

Good to know. I was playing around with my 28-300 which does have the newer IS system and it is sweet. The focus on that lens isn't working worth a damn but the IS is working great.

I also have that consumer grade 28-135 lens and I think that its IS system is an intermediate generation between the old 75-300 and the newest system.

I know you and Red still have some development to do but I am waiting with bated breath to find out how much your EOS adapter and Red's SuperGrip is going to set me back.

[Evin Grant]

Erik, any idea when the Nikon G adapter might surface?

[Mike the beginner]

Clint, you make a good point. This test you describe is as close to what we actually do with the stabilizer in the lens. If you like what the lens does in "shutter button half pressed" mode, you will like what the lens will do while on the EOS mount on a RED camera.

When I was at RED a couple weeks ago, Jim had the 28-135mm lens set at 135mm, mounted on our adapter prototype on Natasha. He was quite visibly, quite pruposefully, shaking the tripod handle up and down, and the stabilized image looked fantastic. It is counterintuitive, but the tripod is not the ideal way to get an idea of just how good the stabilization is. Handheld, the performance of the stabilization is actually better.

There is a lot of misinformation (or maybe just ill-informed speculation) floating around on this board regarding the use of stabilization, and the use of still lenses in general, for motion imaging. I think most people are going to be very pleased with the results. As soon as the first cameras with the EOS mount ship, I think many are going to see value in this feature, even if it is only for a small number of shots.

Thanks for pointing this out. The other important detail, the first generation IS is good (i.e. the 75-300mm). The newer IS is night and day better, when it comes to natural (low frequency) movement such as panning and tilting.

Last thing... if you don't want the IS engaged on any shot, just flip the switch on the lens to off. The adapter will respect your decision.:)


This is fabulous news indeed:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

It looks like my decision to wait and see before buying lenses is going to pay off. Doing fishing projects out on a small boat, the IS should help.

Well done Eric.

Mike the beginner

[Erik Widding]

Erik, any idea when the Nikon G adapter might surface?

The big machine vision show in the world is in November in Stuttgart. We (Birger) plan to be able to show production units of of out Nikon product there. We hope to have a Beta in August. Any version customized for the RED camera could come as quickly as a few weeks after we are generally happy with the performance of the standard product.:construction:

Give us a few weeks to work out the final details on the Canon EOS mount and get it into production. RED should be announcing the final details of the EOS/SuperGrip solution soon. At this point I will probably be in a better position to answer the question.:whistling:

Long answer, to a short question, that didn't really answer it...:innocent:

[Mike the beginner]

The big machine vision show in the world is in November in Stuttgart. We (Birger) plan to be able to show production units of of out Nikon product there. We hope to have a Beta in August. Any version customized for the RED camera could come as quickly as a few weeks after we are generally happy with the performance of the standard product.:construction:

Give us a few weeks to work out the final details on the Canon EOS mount and get it into production. RED should be announcing the final details of the EOS/SuperGrip solution soon. At this point I will probably be in a better position to answer the question.:whistling:

Long answer, to a short question, that didn't really answer it...:innocent:


Eric i know you are a very busy man, but i am curious. Since you mention the super grip will be capable of receiving various set ups, Will the EOS super grip solution be usable with whatever mount/interface you build for Nikon lenses.

I am fairly certain to go with the canon mount and super grip but it would be nice to know the varsatility of the super grip.

Mike the beginner

[Erik Widding]

I am curious. Since you mention the super grip will be capable of receiving various set ups, Will the EOS super grip solution be usable with whatever mount/interface you build for Nikon lenses.

I am fairly certain to go with the canon mount and super grip but it would be nice to know the varsatility of the super grip.

All of our mounts speak the same protocol on the back end (i.e. the SuperGrip end). Any system capable of supporting one of our mounts can support all of our mounts. Common software platform, common electronics, etc. The differences are only on the lens side of things.

The system can query what the mount type is. But aside from this being something to record with the metadata as a further identifier of the lens, it has no bearing on how the system interacts with the lens.

[Mike the beginner]

Thanks for that Eric. You are doing great work here.

Mike the beginner

[Joel Kaye]

Give us a few weeks to work out the final details on the Canon EOS mount and get it into production. RED should be announcing the final details of the EOS/SuperGrip solution soon. At this point I will probably be in a better position to answer the question.

Any clue on the price range? Also, from this I gather that the Canon mount will be available a few months before the Nikon mount, correct?