Patents

[Bachman]

Is there any Patents on this camera that would prevent Sony and Co from bringing out something just as good or even better. Because you know damn well one of these baby's will end up in their lab.

[garageman]

It's all down to how much they are willing to sell their version of it for. If they start to sell their version of a RED type camera at, or lower than RED's prices, well they can't sell their professional Cinealtas for hundreds of thousands anymore.

[Bachman]

It's all down to how much they are willing to sell their version of it for. If they start to sell their version of a RED type camera at, or lower than RED's prices, well they can't sell their professional Cinealtas for hundreds of thousands anymore.

I think the RED will force other manufacturers to rethink their product line and pricing. Sony's pricing has always been way too high because they had no real competition and their service has been appalling for the same reason.

[garageman]

...also has a lot to do with formats.

[Bachman]

...also has a lot to do with formats.

yeah for sure...once you dominate one...you can dominate the other. but as soon as it all goes tapeless/digital, all bets are off. I remember paying 100k for a Media100 system. Now we have a complete FCP setup for about 10k, I think the same thing will happen with cameras. And really some people forget its still early days in Digital Cinema photography.

[Nick Shaw]

I remember paying 100k for a Media100 system.

Must have been a helluva Media 100 system for 100k, even A$. I used to work for a Media 100 reseller, and I can't think what extras you could have added to a Media 100 that would have come to that much. I am assuming you're not including decks, broadcast monitors etc, which you still need with FCP.

[Craig Bowman]

I had a Media 100 LX and then migrated to an LE. Even with the Betacam SP deck, monitor and Mac The whole system was under $25K

[Bachman]

I had a Media 100 LX and then migrated to an LE. Even with the Betacam SP deck, monitor and Mac The whole system was under $25K


It was NZ dollars...so that was about 60k US at the time I think. It included the full service upgrade option, and that price will have included some other stuf, like scsi raids but not decks....but you get the idea

Anyhow...........we got off the subject

[Michael Schrengohst]

Is there any Patents on this camera that would prevent Sony and Co from bringing out something just as good or even better. Because you know damn well one of these baby's will end up in their lab.

SONY probably won't get into this price point. Why when they can sell a lesser camera for 10x the price. Maybe Nikon will get into this business?

[Evin Grant]

It's the Ipod all over again for Sony. When it became clear that the Ipod was going to be THE new walkman, Sony actually made the statement that they should have been the ones to develop it, but they failed. Sony still to this day does not understand why the Ipod is so popular and it's the same reason that even if they could copy the Red very few people would buy it. Because the culture of that company thinks it can decide what's best for you and you will accept it because of that shiny chrome emblem. No longer though, information technology and open standard archetecture are making Sony a marginal player now. They still make great TVs though.
E.

[J. Bernard Vallon]

Sony's R&D lab must be way to large to sell a camera like RED for a price like 20k. Remember, the RED team is only 17 people. Sony is huge.

[Gunleik Groven]

Wasn't that 14?-;)

Gunleik

[Joe Vinson]

Maybe someday Sony will stop selling glorified VCRs for $40,000.

[Vincent Rice]

Sony corporate culture and strategy would have to change drastically before they could even contemplate creating a RED competitor. Not going to happen any time soon.

[Steve Gibby]

They still make great TVs though.

I agree...everytime I walk through the TV department in electronics stores, I stop to view all the TVs. Over the years to the present, it's been the Sony TVs that my eyes felt most comfortable with. I like their TVs...

[Brook Willard]

As for patents, I believe RED holds the patent for "awesome".

And the color red. Yeah, the whole thing. You aren't even allowed to see the red wavelength without risking suit.

[Ace]

Red patent minefield! do not cross!

[Steve Gibby]

You aren't even allowed to see the red wavelength without risking suit.

...and the other manufacturers are really seeing RED over that!

[Brook Willard]

...and the other manufacturers are really seeing RED over that!

That'll be $3.37.

[Steve Gibby]

That'll be $3.37.

Just put it on my tab...

[MikeCurtis]

I should image Jim has some comfort level with dealing with patent and brand encroachment - Oakley is deadly serious about enforcing trademarks and patents. Fake Oakleys on the market? Report'em, they'll be off the shelves in NO time.

[Bruce Allen]

Sony's R&D lab must be way to large to sell a camera like RED for a price like 20k. Remember, the RED team is only 17 people. Sony is huge.

I'd say if you count the people involved in the R&D of manufacturing the sensor to RED's specs, RED's team would be a lot larger than 17, methinks.

That said, I love small, good companies!

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[Bachman]

Hell, I would hope RED is bigger than 17 people, otherwise it's goin to take years to fill orders.

[GlennChan]

I don't think it's reasonable to expect Sony to dominate at everything it does... like all companies, I would expect Sony to have its hits and misses.

If you look at tape decks, it has had successes with betaSP, digital betacam, HDCAM, and (soon to be) HDCAM SR. And Sony has had misses with betaSX, D-1.

2- Sony also has some decent competition to keep them honest... for example, Panasonic has been fairly aggressive in its pricing and introduced things like affordable 24p in its DVX.

[Bachman]

I don't think it's reasonable to expect Sony to dominate at everything it does... like all companies, I would expect Sony to have its hits and misses.

If you look at tape decks, it has had successes with betaSP, digital betacam, HDCAM, and (soon to be) HDCAM SR. And Sony has had misses with betaSX, D-1.

2- Sony also has some decent competition to keep them honest... for example, Panasonic has been fairly aggressive in its pricing and introduced things like affordable 24p in its DVX.

Do we count XDCAM as a HIT or a MISS?

[Shawn Nelson]

I'd say if you count the people involved in the R&D of manufacturing the sensor to RED's specs, RED's team would be a lot larger than 17, methinks.

Oh yeah...those 17 do not include the manufacturing of the Mysterium, that was done earlier. In fact, me thinks that Mysterium was nearly done (at least the prototype) before December 05, because that's when Jim had posted a lot of specs of the sensor, and they really haven't changed since then. I think Jim spent a few years getting his sensor and once he did, he then formed the famous small group, "outed himself" to the world at NAB 06 (actually a few months earlier on www.red.com) and here's where we stand.

[Stephen Gentle]

I agree...everytime I walk through the TV department in electronics stores, I stop to view all the TVs. Over the years to the present, it's been the Sony TVs that my eyes felt most comfortable with. I like their TVs...

Maybe for CRTs and LCDs, but when it comes to Plasmas, I reckon the Fujitsu panels look the best.

Anyway, I think that Sony might be in trouble unless that new solid state XDCAM system is cheaper than RED, and better than the HPX500. But the CineAlta series is doomed...

[Stephen Gentle]

I'd say if you count the people involved in the R&D of manufacturing the sensor to RED's specs, RED's team would be a lot larger than 17, methinks.


Hell, I would hope RED is bigger than 17 people, otherwise it's goin to take years to fill orders.

Jim has said that RED doesn't manufacture the sensors, and I doubt that they would build the cameras either...

[Bachman]

Maybe for CRTs and LCDs, but when it comes to Plasmas, I reckon the Fujitsu panels look the best.

Anyway, I think that Sony might be in trouble unless that new solid state XDCAM system is cheaper than RED, and better than the HPX500. But the CineAlta series is doomed...

Pioneer make the best Plasma, hands down, no contest. They are also the most expensive by far.

XDCAM is not solid state..its has a spinning optical disk and a moving laser

[RobRoySyd]

XDCAM is not solid state..its has a spinning optical disk and a moving laser

The new XDCAM EX writes to SXS flash cards, no BD disks. Sony might have a winner with this cam. 3 x 1/2" CCDs for $8K and cheap media.

What should be of interest to RED users is the new XDCAM drive at $3K. Would seem an ideal way to archive footage. The 50GB disks are rated for 30 years and the drive connects via USB. A SATA version was reported to be in the works.

[Bachman]

The new XDCAM EX writes to SXS flash cards, no BD disks. Sony might have a winner with this cam. 3 x 1/2" CCDs for $8K and cheap media.

What should be of interest to RED users is the new XDCAM drive at $3K. Would seem an ideal way to archive footage. The 50GB disks are rated for 30 years and the drive connects via USB. A SATA version was reported to be in the works.

Hmmm...you got me on that one, but it's not released yet and its a prosumer camera right?. If I turned up to a shoot with that thing id lose my clients