Renting Red ONE...how much?

[C.H.Haskell]

Greetings Redusers...

I am curious to what a general renting rate would be for a RED ONE camera package? I have placed an order for a REDONE already and am thinking I might start renting it out in-between projects even though this is not really my kind of operation, hoping to supplement some of the cost we are investing into this Red endeavor. Sorry if this is already discussed elsewhere, I will keep looking.

I understand there is much to learn about this business including proper insurance etc but its just a thought.

Cheers

[Brook Willard]

RED rentals have been discussed in extreme detail over the last few months. I'd do a search of all of the forums to get a better handle. You'll get better answers from there than I could provide to you now. :)

[Jeff Deveraux]

Silverado has already begun to advertise their RED rental package. They're charging $6000/wk. for a full package including lens, tripod, matte box, filters...
A bit steep if you ask me, but then again I've always thought gear rentals were too much. I guess if the market can bare it, there's nothing wrong with it.
It also seems that this rate only applies to a 16 week deal. I feel that this can't be right. I must be reading this wrong.
Check it out...

http://silverado.cc/shop/product.php?productid=859&cat=0&page=2

[Sanjin Jukic]

- The RED package
€ 850,00 daily
€ 2.500,00 weekly
€ 10.000,00 monthly
To all prices add 20% VAT in Austria.

[Sanjin Jukic]

- The RED package
€ 850,00 daily
€ 2.500,00 weekly
€ 10.000,00 monthly
To all prices add 20% VAT in Austria.

Have a look at:
SANJIN JUKIC DIGITAL CINEMA PRODUCTION & RENTAL
http://www.sanjinjukic.com/page2/page2.html

+ RED ONE CAMERA PACKAGE
Camera body, P/L Mount, Accessory Cables, Operations Guide
Includes:
Camera body
P/L Mount
Accessory Cables
Operation Guide
License for REDCINE Software

+ RED ONE BASIC PRODUCTION PACK
Includes:
RED V PLATE
RED RAIL™ base package
RED RAIL CRADLE (battery plate & magazine adaptor)
RED RAIL MOUNT
RED ROD SHORT (3)
RED GRIP HANDLE
RED RAIL BASE PLATE
RED PAD (Shoulder pad / tripod plate adaptor)
RED TOP HANDLE assembly

POWER SYSTEM
+ RED ONE POWER PACK
Includes:
RED BRICK 140Wh Battery Pack (2)
RED CHARGER
Camera - Charger cable - 10ft

MONITOR OPTIONS
+ RED EVF Viewfinder
Includes:
+ RED ARM adjustable mount arm
Interface cable - 1ft
+ RED LCD Screen (5.6”)
Includes:
+ RED ARM adjustable mount arm
Interface cable - 1ft
DIGITAL MEDIA OPTIONS
+ RED DRIVE 320GB$900
Includes:
Dual 160 GB 2.5" SATA Hard Disk Drives
+ RED FLASH (CF) Module $500
Includes:
Camera Read / Write Module for CF flash media
(media is not included)

[Sanjin Jukic]

EXTRAS if you need them:

OPTICAL ADAPTORS
+ RED F Mount (Nikon) $500
+ Vocas Matte Box
+ Redrock Micro Follow Focus
+ 15mm IRIS ROD SUPPORT BASE
+ Seconic Dualmaster - L558 Cine Exposure Meter
+ Mark V Director's View Finder, Alan Gordon Enterprises. Inc. Hollywood, California
+ Panasonic 7" LCD monitor
+ Sony 19" LCD TV to precisely "nail" focus on a set
+ Sennheiser MKE 300 Microphone
+ Sennheiser E-815S Microphone
+ Roland Edirol R-1 wave/mp3 field sound recorder
+ Manfrotto Fluid Head
+ Vinten Pro Touch 5 Tripod
+ Tripod Dolly

Nikon F Mount lenses
++Primes:
14mm = Sigma AF/MF 14mm f/1:3.5 Multi Coated
24mm = Nikkor-N A 24mm f/1:2.8
28mm = Nikkor AI-S 28mm f/1:2.8
35mm = Nikkor AI 35mm f/1:1.4
50mm = Carl Zeiss Planar T* 50mm ZF f/1:1.4
50mm = Nikkor AF 50mm f/1:1.8 D
55mm = Nikkor-R-Micro AI 55mm f/1:3.5 + Auto Extension Ring PK 13
65mm = Leica Elmar 65mm f/1:3.5 Leica-VISO to Nikon F adapter
75mm = Cooke Speed Panchro 75mm f/2, T/2.3 adapted to M42/Nikon F adapter
80mm = Hasselblad - Carl Zeiss Planar T* 80mm f/1:2.8 to Nikon F adapter
85mm = Nikkor AF 85mm f/1:1.8 D
90mm = Leica Summicron 90mm f/1:2.0 Leica-VISO to Nikon F adapter
105mm = Nikkor AI-S 105mm f/1:2.5
135mm = Nikkor-Q A 135mm f/1:2.8
135mm = Schneider-Kreuznach Tele-Xenar 135mm f/1:3.5 M42/Nikon F adapter
180mm = Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar Olympia 180mm f/1:2.8 Nikon F
200mm = Leica Telyt 200mm f/1:4.5 Leica-VISO to Nikon F adapter
500mm = Carl Zeiss Jena Fernobjektiv 500mm f/1:8.0 M42/Nikon F adapter

++Zooms:
17-35mm = Nikkor AF 17-35mm f/1:2.8 D ED
35-80mm = Nikkor AF 35-80mm f/1:4.0-5.6 D
70-210mm = Nikkor AF 70-210mm f/1:4.0-5.6
100-300mm = Soligor Nikon/F 100-300mm f/1:5.0

[Martin Drew]

It also seems that this rate only applies to a 16 week deal. I feel that this can't be right. I must be reading this wrong.
Check it out...

http://silverado.cc/shop/product.php?productid=859&cat=0&page=2

I think they are saying that this price will only be valid for the first 16 weeks, not that you have to rent it for 16 weeks. After that presumably the price will go up!

M

[Jeff Deveraux]

I think they are saying that this price will only be valid for the first 16 weeks, not that you have to rent it for 16 weeks. After that presumably the price will go up!

M

You've got to be right. I can't imagine it otherwise.

[C.H.Haskell]

great, thanks for the info. Many of you independents plan to rent out your RED as well?

[Steven M. Bailey]

If you rent your RED out, realize that it may take you a year or so to get another one. Get insurance and make sure you get enough money to cover your down time. I've never rented out cameras, but I also haven't had too many things returned to me in the condition in which they left.

Proceed with caution.

Rentals are expensive because renters are a hazzard.

[C.H.Haskell]

Yikes...

no kidding, I would be pulling my hair worrying about renters abuse...perhaps I will package myself with the deal to supervise the shoot. Come to think of it, not many DPs or crews will be prepared for the RED workflow etc and they would benefit some expertise.
Just a thought.

[Steven M. Bailey]

Good Idea, make a rental deal and meet new people. If you have time it sounds like a win win.

[Kyle Spicer]

I will more than likely rent my package out with the condition that I come along with it. Be it that I am the Camera Operator, 1st AC, 2nd AC, DIT, etc,etc... My camera will never leave my sight! :)

[Jeff Brue]

You guys really, really don't want to see what can happen to a dcinema camera out on set.... I'm still crying a little over a Optimo zoom HD lens that was shattered on the Prep bay floor by an idiotic AC. Even our vipers...if anythiing major happens to them, back to Thompson they go. Makes me nervous, when people think of Red as a cheap camera, they're more likely to throw it in the ocean (something that just happened with with one of our Arri 435's).

[Ralph Oshiro]

Don't worry, professional operators treat pro equipment care. Just think how many times you've rented a car, and nicked the door in a tight parking spot, muttering to yourself, "Don't worry . . . it's a rental!"

[Desert Rune]

no kidding, I would be pulling my hair worrying about renters abuse...
Red rentals is going to be a huge cottage industry. We should probably think of putting together a renters' database on a regional and national basis of good and bad renters. I would support such a measure, if it means a little extra piece of mind.

Anybody think this is a good idea?

[J. Bernard Vallon]

I was pitching around the idea for a backup network, in case of equipment failure or damage on an expensive shoot.

[Steven M. Bailey]

PerfectOptics:

Yeah really. The cool thing about red is the price/cost ratio. The bad thing is if you break it, you're looking @ a one year wait for a new one. A service center may be set up by RED soon after distribution starts, but that only will pertain to damage, if you drop it into the lake from the helicopter, you're just tough out of luck. A back-up pool is a good idea, but may cost you a tag-along fee. Who's gonna trust you with thier best camera when you just threw yours in the lake?

[C.H.Haskell]

Hah...good point.

Renters database, back-up networks etc all solid ideas and I would like to see something evolve from this already solid and growing community of experts.

[Steven M. Bailey]

Hah...good point.

Renters database, back-up networks etc all solid ideas and I would like to see something evolve from this already solid and growing community of experts.

You know the definition of an expert don't you

ex-spurt

ex- is a has been
spurt- is a drip under pressure

:bleh:

[C.H.Haskell]

ok so maybe I used the wrong word? Lol...nice one. I am just floored by how many people have come together here over a camera. I am a dvxuser (hvx) as well but we all know this is not the same ballpark...hell this not even the same sport. My chips are in.

[Rocco Schult]

If you rent your RED out, realize that it may take you a year or so to get another one. Get insurance... I also haven't had too many things returned to me in the condition in which they left.

Proceed with caution.

You guys really, really don't want to see what can happen to a dcinema camera out on set.. Makes me nervous, when people think of Red as a cheap camera, they're more likely to throw it in the ocean (something that just happened with with one of our Arri 435's).

You both scare me, but good advice. Insurance is an important key. And btw, get an insurance that covers filmequipment and electronics. Here in Europe thats a different business.


..perhaps I will package myself with the deal to supervise the shoot. ..not many DPs or crews will be prepared for the RED workflow etc and they would benefit some expertise.

Exactly, thats what intend to do also. At least a 3-day introductory if rental goes longer. Helps you to get to know the team, especially 1.AC and how they handle your stuff.


Be it that I am the Camera Operator, 1st AC, 2nd AC, DIT, etc,etc... My camera will never leave my sight! :)

When you other things to do than renting it'll be difficult, no ? :bleh:
I will still need another job to pay my bills.


Red rentals is going to be a huge cottage industry. We should probably think of putting together a renters' database on a regional and national basis of good and bad renters. I would support such a measure, if it means a little extra piece of mind.

Anybody think this is a good idea?

Though its a little early for 'bad renters', but I generally welcome the idea of a database. When it comes to a rating this database would need customer feedback possibilities and hence an announcement to possible customers.
Any ideas how to handle this ? I mean beginning with a database ?


I was pitching around the idea for a backup network, in case of equipment failure or damage on an expensive shoot.

Here in Switzerland we began organizing ourselves a little and we threw some messages regarding that to Germany and France also. I think its a good idea, but it can be easily handled by the local usergroups, which are evolving right now.

[donatello b]

also remember if your equipment is damaged insurance does not write out a check that day , that week, maybe not that month , could be few months ...
you might consider a deductable deposit ( many policy have 1000-2500 deductables)

in general i have found that on low budgets they may hire a DP, Gaffer, audio persons that have experience and then hire AC's , electric's , boom persons that have very little experience = usually hard on all equipment ... we all try to be carefull and accidents do happen ( hummmm that camera i dropped ... that light ... the lens the grip truck ran over or the peeWee dolly that got hit by the grip truck !!!) i don't think the claims were settled for months ....

[johannperry]

don't forget that you need considerable backup if your red goes down in the field on someone elses shoot. If they are in the Congo and demand a replacement that day it can be on your head to get a replacement camera to them, with all the cost and hassle that entails. :waaa:

[Sanjin Jukic]

Read some of my rental conditions:

-A full rental price have to be paid in advance before shooting start.

+ Renting the RED camera from our rental requires an additional hire
of the Second Camera Assistant/Shooting Supervisor provided with
MacBook Pro laptop for footage transfer/archiving.

- The borrower is asked for adequate references and/or a deposit in cash
equivalent to the purchase price.

-The articles are not insured. The borrower confirms with his signature,
that every piece of the equipment is in absolutely proper and complete
condition. Any faults or damages, which are not normal wear and tear,
will be balanced with the borrower. SJ Digital Cinema Production & Rental
accepts definitely no responsibility for any direct or indirect damages,
which are caused by the rent articles or its failures.

[C.H.Haskell]

Thats a very reasonable run down Third Man....this thread becomes more useful everyday, thanks to all for contributing.


don't forget that you need considerable backup if your red goes down in the field on someone elses shoot. If they are in the Congo and demand a replacement that day it can be on your head to get a replacement camera to them, with all the cost and hassle that entails. :waaa:

Good point, since I cant provide a back up camera I suppose this is where the back up network of Red owners come into play. So what are you going to do Third Man in he event your RED goes down on your renter?

[Sanjin Jukic]

- Like an independent rental you are there in the place (as I described you are something like a second camera assistant or with a new name...) during all time of the shooting.
So what you do there:
1. Supervising usage of the camera, proofing all type of technical security for the camera,
2. Unloading a footage from HDD or diverse types of flash media using your MacBook Pro laptop,
3. During a change of lenses or mounts you are checking possible sensor dust dirt and cleaning it, etc...
4. Watching overall camera security and usage.

- What about insurance?>>I wrote>>"The borrower is asked for adequate references and/or a deposit in cash equivalent to the purchase price."(camera body costs $/€17.500)>>
So "if your RED goes down in the field on someone else shoot" and is damaged or what else you have a deposit that has been paid in advance and you could refund your camera (not get another so fast but you could immediately place an order for new one, better then to deal with an insurance bureaucracy labyrinth manners).

-And of course if something have got totally wrong that you or anybody else could not avoid>>"camera i dropped etc...cases" you still have a deposit of the camera body paid in advance ($/€17.500) and that would be your best insurance. Those practices I found here in Austria and it is used for a high-end photo equipment rental that cost even more than the RED camera body (stuff like middle format cameras like Sinar, Hasselblad together with Phase One Pro digital backs P45+, P30+, P20+, etc).

[Camille Herren]

Augenmensch,

Where in Switzerland are those local usergroups evolving? Having ordered a RED One myself, I might wanna join in...

Merci aus Biel.

[Sanjin Jukic]

Hi Camille, is it Biel - Bienne still a nice little watch-industry city on a lake (Bielersee - Lac de Bienne)? I had a girlfriend there a long ago (or 12 years ago).

[C.H.Haskell]

Greetings to Switzerland,

search the board and see what comes up or PM Augenmensch to get info on a user group in your area. Look forward to your site launching,

best

[Camille Herren]

Hey Sanjin,

That's right, Biel-Bienne. There's not much left of the massive watch industry that used to be here, only head quarters. The watches and innerts are manufactured elsewhere...

Hi Haskell, nice to get greetings from Brooklyn, used to live there for a while... My site will be up soon with some clips of what I've done, right now I'm still full in production of a small corporate video...

[Moir]

Read some of my rental conditions:

-The articles are not insured. The borrower confirms with his signature,
that every piece of the equipment is in absolutely proper and complete
condition. Any faults or damages, which are not normal wear and tear,
will be balanced with the borrower. SJ Digital Cinema Production & Rental
accepts definitely no responsibility for any direct or indirect damages,
which are caused by the rent articles or its failures.

Do you currently hire camera equipment under these terms? FWIW, I would never sign a contract to hire a complex piece of equipment on a full indemnity basis like this. If a major fault developed that was not my doing, I would be held liable.

[C.H.Haskell]

Interesting point Moir

Damage is one thing and would leave a renter liable but thats why he/she has additional insurance coverage. A fault is another thing, if the camera simply breaks down on a shoot then as a renter I would not want to be liable, I would look to the rental house for an answer and hope to have a back up camera ASAP. Then in a perfect world the renter sighs but is relieved cause they have insurance and calls up their local network for a back up camera.

Sound right?

[Moir]

Yes, sounds reasonable to me, but then I am not involved in the business of camera rental. All I know is that there is no way I would rent a camera where I was liable for its repair in the event of a fault for which I was not responsible.

And if I did rent a camera for a shoot I would want to know what backup the renter could provide in the event of a malfunction, and I would expect the renter to provide a replacement on their dime.

[Sanjin Jukic]

Sorry guys BUT obviously no any of you would rent or hire anything not even a car. All your comments for me sounds pretty amateurish. There are some things you should consider and understand:

1. No any insurance will guarantee a total refund of your broken thing.

2. Only what 100% works for a rental is when the borrower is asked for a deposit in cash equivalent to the purchase price.

3. This is not about a stealing a money it is about 100% guarantee of immediate refund in a case that failure is provoked by the borrower.

4. All insurance companies in the world are slow by bureaucracy and to get MONEY from them and then a new RED again it will takes a months or even a year. That means for a rental company is like a total loss of investment. Just if you could understand ones in a life the real rental conditions.

[C.H.Haskell]

Keep in mind this thread was started to inform those who have never rented (myself included) and are trying to understand how it all goes down.

You can rent cars? Thanks for the update Third man.

[Damien Molineaux]

Interesting thread, Camille and augenmensch aka therock, I'm also from Switzerland. There are a few Red reservation holders in Switzerland. I'm sure pretty soon there will be many Red cameras available for rent. A few of us are currently discussing rental prices. Renting is taking a risk, I'm wondering if I won't be renting mine with me included in all cases.

Cheers from Geneva,
Damien

[Sanjin Jukic]

FROM MY RENTAL WEB PAGE:

- The RED rental package rates:

1. € 850,00 daily
2. € 2.500,00 weekly
3. € 10.000,00 monthly

+ Renting the RED camera from our rental requires additional
hire of the Second Camera Assistant/Shooting Supervisor with
MacBook Pro laptop for footage transfer/archiving.
€ 175 daily + accommodation costs
To all prices add 20% VAT.
A full rental price have to be paid in advance before shooting start.
Read more about the rental conditions below.

.............................


RENTAL CONDITIONS:
SJ Digital Cinema Production & Rental Service operates
on a pick-up basis and is based on the prices shown
in the list above plus 20% VAT.
The borrower is asked for adequate references and/or a deposit in cash
equivalent to the purchase price. Any ID documents will not be accepted.
The rental shown in the list is valid for 24 hours (MIN), beginning at the
moment of collection or agreed date. If the rent equipment is not returned
on schedule, the full amount per every begun day has to be paid.
The articles are not insured. The borrower confirms with his signature,
that every piece of the equipment is in absolutely proper and complete
condition. Any faults or damages, which are not normal wear and tear,
will be balanced with the borrower. SJ Digital Cinema Production & Rental
accepts definitely no responsibility for any direct or indirect damages,
which are caused by the rent articles or its failures.
Orders or date agreements have to be put down in writing/fax.
The cancallation fee is 20% of the daily rental rate.
Weekends (Fridays from 4:00 pm to Mondays 12:00 noon)
will be considered 48 hours.

SJ Digital Cinema Production & Rental Service keeps to be unlimited
owner of the articles:
Positively NO hiring, selling, passing on or mortgage!
The borrower is responsible for careful treatment and any damages,
according to Austrian law (ABGB).
Errors excepted.

-----------------

Excerpts from

http://www.sanjinjukic.com/page2/page2.html

[C.H.Haskell]

For all RED users and specially NYC users, go ahead and add me to your contact for back up a BACK up RED rental and please dont hesitate to call or email me if you have any questions. Its is still a bit far to plan when we will get our RED cine package (late 07/early 08) but like most of you I want to hit the ground running when she arrives. I will be working to update our website accordingly.

Thanks for all the feedback here on the post.

Best

[overlandfilms]

I cannot fathom letting your rental assets out without securing a typical certificate of insurance naming your agency as loss payee. Unfathomable.

Good luck.

[Stephen Williams]

Augenmensch,

Where in Switzerland are those local usergroups evolving? Having ordered a RED One myself, I might wanna join in...

Merci aus Biel.

Hi,

Well with 2 Reds in Biel, I gues that will be the Red HQ of CH!

Stephen

[Daniel Reichenbach]

Augenmensch,

Where in Switzerland are those local usergroups evolving? Having ordered a RED One myself, I might wanna join in...

Merci aus Biel.


Hi Camille

Funny, Biel will be the mekka of RED Switzerland. I'm living in Biel too, whats your serial?

[Simon Blackledge]

One thing that strikes me is Red is supposed to be cheaper.. more cost effective..

yet it seems some are thinking if I do a 3 day shoot I have to pay rental upfront.. ( ok) but also stump 17k down deposit! :-/ and then forced to use other stuff I may, as a post house sup also, already have. Some people will want them camera, and not need to rent someone elses expertise. Please give people a choice.

[Dominique Grenier]

One thing that strikes me is Red is supposed to be cheaper.. more cost effective..

yet it seems some are thinking if I do a 3 day shoot I have to pay rental upfront.. ( ok) but also stump 17k down deposit! :-/ and then forced to use other stuff I may, as a post house sup also, already have. Some people will want them camera, and not need to rent someone elses expertise. Please give people a choice.

While I agree mostly with what you said, it might better suited for a rental house, where they can afford to just rent the camera and replace/repair it as needed.

When it is an individual renting his/her own camera, it is often part of a package that includes his/her own services. More than often, individual are not in the business of making money throught renting their camera alone, but rather with services they can offer with this camera.

Renting, for many, is just a part of getting back some of their investment, or at least to help them pay for it.

If the user really want this kind of choice then its better to go to the rental house route. This said, I don't plan on having my clients pay upfront nor do I require that kind of deposit. This is just not the way business is made here, plus I don't think anyone in my community will have this kind of money laying around, which would mean no business at all for me...

At least, that's what I think...

[Sanjin Jukic]

While I agree mostly with what you said, it might better suited for a rental house, where they can afford to just rent the camera and replace/repair it as needed.

When it is an individual renting his/her own camera, it is often part of a package that includes his/her own services. More than often, individual are not in the business of making money throught renting their camera alone, but rather with services they can offer with this camera.

Renting, for many, is just a part of getting back some of their investment, or at least to help them pay for it.

If the user really want this kind of choice then its better to go to the rental house route. This said, I don't plan on having my clients pay upfront nor do I require that kind of deposit. This is just not the way business is made here, plus I don't think anyone in my community will have this kind of money laying around, which would mean no business at all for me...

At least, that's what I think...

Dominique this is example of the rental practice here in Austria. This is a quoto from the most famous Viennese photo&video analog&digital equipment reseller (also official Apple reseller) and rental "Digitalstore Vienna - Schneider & Tischer". Have a look at this text and is also translated in French:

"Français>>

Modalités de louage


La location se fait aux prix indiqués à cette liste plus 20 % d'impôts. En principe l'équipement est à prendre à Schneider & Tischer. Des clients inconnus doivent donner des réferences ou mettre en dépôt le prix nouveau. Le dépôt de documents personnels ne suffit pas.
Le taux de prêt est valide pour 24 heures (= minimum). La location commence à l'enlèvement respectivement à la date fixée par le client. Le règlement de comptes est effectué après la restitution de l'équipement. En cas de restitution en retard on demandera le taux de pret par chaque jour commencé.
Il n'existe pas d' assurance pour l'équipement. A prise en charge vous confirmez l'état correct et complet. La perte ou la détérioration - exepté l'usure normale - sont à votre débit.
Digitalstore Vienna se ne porte pas garant des dommages directs ou indirects causé par une panne d'équipement ou causé par l'équipement.
Des ordres fixes et des réservations veuillez aviser par écrit ou par le fax.
La ristourne d'équipement reservé vous serait facturée avec 20 % du taux de prêt.
A l'enlèvement le vendredi après 16:00 et la restitution le lundi en avant 12:00 nous mettons en compte seulement 48 heures.
Taux de rabais: à 5 jours - 10 %
à 10 jours - 20 %
à 15 jours - 25 %
Digitalstore Vienna est le propriétaire d'équipement entier. La mise en gage, la fiducie, la vente ou la transmission sont interdite.
Le locateur assure le traitement soigneux et il est responsable du dommage conforme à l'ABGB (= code civil autrichien)."

Original link at
http://www.knips.com/websites/web_1_2/index.php?pId=rnt_24x-x61&mediaId=rent

[Dominique Grenier]

Dominique this is example of the rental practice here in Austria. This is a quoto from the most famous Viennese photo&video analog&digital equipment reseller (also official Apple reseller) and rental "Digitalstore Vienna - Schneider & Tischer".

Ouch... this is a computer generated translation, right? Unless this is some sort of french I've never heard about... :blush:

I'm not saying that you're wrong, I guess it all depends on how business is made in a particular location.

Here, in my experience, this is not the way it is done, and I'd go bankrupt trying to do this, since no one expect this nor is willing to pay this kind of money. But if that's possible where you live, I guess this is a very good way to protect your investment.

However, I see some problems in doing this. I'm not sure I would like to take the responsability for such a large deposit, plus wouldn't there be some problems with government taxes? I mean, such large amounts of money showing up in your bank account...no?

[Sanjin Jukic]

First: They can give a cash in my office like in Westerns.

Second: Sorry because of bad French but they (Knips) should do it better.

Third: I just got Sony FX1 from rental customer and discovered that iLink aka firewire port is not working any more. Nobody can download firewire HDV/DV footage from the camera now. OOOUUCH!!!. JUST GREAT and I am raelly screwed and mad. And I have like as you said INDIVIDUAL rental to deal with all those reparations or in a worst case camera is not firewire usable. Let's say it is pro-summer Sony product but you would never know what should happen with your brand new RED camera in hands of non-skilled technician TOMORROW.

JUST THINK ABOUT IT TILL YOU GET THE RED "DIAMOND" YOUR HANDS. SECURITY IS NEED.

[Dominique Grenier]

Third: I just got Sony FX1 from rental customer and discovered that iLink aka firewire port is not working any more. Nobody can download firewire HDV/DV footage from the camera now. OOOUUCH!!!. JUST GREAT and I am raelly screwed and mad. And I have like as you said INDIVIDUAL rental to deal with all those reparations or in a worst case camera is not firewire usable. Let's say it is pro-summer Sony product but you would never know what should happen with your brand new RED camera in hands of non-skilled technician TOMORROW.

JUST THINK ABOUT IT TILL YOU GET THE RED "DIAMOND" YOUR HANDS. SECURITY IS NEED.

That's currently where I am in my reflexion of "to rent or not to rent". Should I come with the camera whenever somebody wants to rent it? Should I only rent it to people I know (I live in a small city, so it is more possible)? Should I rent it at all? In the best world, I shouldn't have, but that's not the case. I guess it all depends on how bad I need this renting money...

[Sanjin Jukic]

Hi Camille

Funny, Biel will be the mekka of RED Switzerland. I'm living in Biel too, whats your serial?

I was living in Biel almost 14 months and I must say is city with a rich people like the most of Switzerland. No doubts that are several REDS spread over a such small area. Vienna in Austria is almost the same. Don't forget it is not like in California or LA. Here in "Mitteleuropa“" the Hollywood and a like productions going to Prague or Berlin to get serviced. a better studios and a better skilled people. Biel and Vienna are at the EDGE of that. Just a province. The best parts in both cities are such friendly girls or women. So come here a film people and get the rest. And the best if you would know how could do it. Just stay here and learn it.

[Sanjin Jukic]

That's currently where I am in my reflexion of "to rent or not to rent". Should I come with the camera whenever somebody wants to rent it? Should I only rent it to people I know (I live in a small city, so it is more possible)? Should I rent it at all? In the best world, I shouldn't have, but that's not the case. I guess it all depends on how bad I need this renting money...

I do not need any money!!! But don't get me wrong. If you want my RED there are certain conditions that are also negotiable. To get a deal is never easy.

[donatello b]

" just got Sony FX1 from rental customer and discovered that iLink aka firewire port is not working any more"

was it the renters fault ?

i've had 1394 go out on camera's, deck & i had the multi media slot go out on 2 computers - so was that the fault of the user ? or the they just went out because of normal use ?
on one computer ( 2 years old ) i never used the slot until 3 weeks ago when i put in a CF media disc and the slot doesn't work = can't be users fault !!!

[Sanjin Jukic]

"was it the renters fault ? "

YES.

It was working before the last rental.

But Sony FX1 cost about €/$ 3.000.

RED body is $ 17.500.

If HDMI or DVI or EVF or what else is not working after rental customer returned the cam. Then (RENTAL) WE ARE ALL SCREWED for a couple of months that would take for sure to repair and shipping.

HERE would be a place for skilled rental camera supervisor/GUARD that will try out to avoid many wrong steps during usage of the rented camera.

[Sanjin Jukic]

By the way ARRI rental here in Vienna will hire you a camera only with skilled DP that is from their LIST. Otherwise not. Maybe they will do it exception only if you would have Storaro like guy/girl on your cinematographer list.

Link
http://www.moviecam.at/

[donatello b]

if i rent a EVF and it worked when i check it out ...
then on shoot it stops working - that doesn't mean I broke it !!
sometimes electronic's just stop working ....

i've rented cameras & lens and they have gone out - rental house never charged for repair of lens ( something interior on lens was out of wack = cause 1/2 frame in focus other half frame out focus ) ... production insurance had to foot the bill for the reshoots because of the lens problem ... and foot bill because registration on camera went out ( again nothing the crew did wrong - it just went out ) ....

the camera that dropped , the lenses we ran over - those were our fault and insurance covered the items ... also i believe many rental houses get paid for loss of rental that production insurance will cover ...

so if there is NO physical damage - how do you determine if it just electrnic/mechanical failure or the renters fault ?
i don't accept the rule of it worked when you left here and it stopped working while you had it therefore i have to pay for it ...