Request for audio at 120fps

[Paul Leeming]

I'm currently on location with a client wanting to shoot 120fps footage with audio, not for motion picture work but to get very detailed high fps stills from the cockpit of a train for a simulator.

They want to record the project as 120fps and thereby have the sound included, all four channels of it (environmental audio and wheels, both stereo).

Red, is there any chance of making this an available option, given we have 60fps at 3K?

With thanks,

Paul

[gdv]

And how the sound will be in slow motion too???
There is no sound in slow motion, it doesn't sound clear and "readable".
If you want the sound effect from the actual scene, then record it in double system.

[Paul Leeming]

No, I mean they want to play back at 120fps so it's normal speed, just with very high refresh rate. This is for a simulator for one of the Japanese railway companies here.

In other words, Project Framerate of 120fps, 1:1 playback speed.

HTH

Paul

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I'll second this request too.

I've got a couple jobs going right now that involve shooting at higher frame rates, up to 120 and playback will be at the higher rates, even 120Hz. With my usual small crew (and often just me by myself) it would be great if I don't have to wrangle an external audio solution in these situations.

[Stuart English]

Request noted. At lest for now you will have to record separate sound.

Can you shoot 60 fps and frame rate double?

[LEON]

I would need in camera synch sound from 16 to 24 frames,
would that be possible ?
Thank you

[FMG battery]

another wrangler asking the same..

[Brian J.M. Rytel]

I would think along the same line as Stuart English:

Can you shoot 60 fps and frame rate double?

You could use a frame rate doubler function of a motion graphics program and use a frame blur/render tool that calculates the in-between frame rate thus giving you not just 60f x 2, but 60f (real) + 60f (render) and not have object speed in-frame change any. I believe AfterEffects, and Shake have high-end utilities for this, but either FCP or Premiere and Avid have a tolerable tool.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Thanks for listening, Stuart.


Can you shoot 60 fps and frame rate double?

Not when the client specifically requests 120fps. And I've already shown the client the best of what Shake/Motion, AE and Nuke can do for optical flow retiming of 60fps to 120fps. It's just not going to cut it.

I'm starting a project the first week of December that will be shooting entirely at 120Hz. It's all content for one of those "3D" motion ride simulators. For the most part, all sound will be produced in post, but they do need some talking heads. I've got a sound guy lined up, so not a big deal this time around. But the amount of recorded dialogue is rather small and if the camera could do 120Hz and record audio on-board, I could've saved the cost of the sound tech.

Anyway 120Hz because they're going for some kind of hyper-realistic look and will be using new 120Hz LCD display panels in the simulator cockpit. It's like a whole new generation of those crappy hydraulic motion rides you see at the mall that have terrible frame rates and low-poly environments.

[Brian J.M. Rytel]

Thanks for listening, Stuart.
... I've already shown the client the best of what Shake/Motion, AE and Nuke can do for optical flow retiming of 60fps to 120fps. It's just not going to cut it...

Good to know, one more item we can't "fix in post" crossed of the list.


Anyway 120Hz because they're going for some kind of hyper-realistic look and will be using new 120Hz LCD display panels in the simulator cockpit. It's like a whole new generation of those crappy hydraulic motion rides you see at the mall that have terrible frame rates and low-poly environments.

I've seen those panels (shooting/military sim), and they seemed so sharp as to be fake (to me). However for high-speed objects like roller-coasters and trains, the amount of blur from lower frame-rates is probably noticeable. I wonder what response time those LCDs have (5ms or less?).

[Martin Weiss]

Would also love the option of capturing audio in timelapse, i.e. whenever a frame is exposed, get 1/24th of a second of sound.

[Brian J.M. Rytel]

You wouldn't need to take just 1/nth of a second, the playback rate of the audio could be set appropriately higher, and a pitch shift applied to normalize the frequency. This would prevent a 'choppiness' in the sound, and you would still be able to use the audio at its 'actual' playback rate if needed.

[R. Schorman]

I would also love this feature. If it's possible to enclude audio in the 1080p120hz mode whenever it comes out, that would be great too.

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Good to know, one more item we can't "fix in post" crossed of the list.

I've seen those panels (shooting/military sim), and they seemed so sharp as to be fake (to me). However for high-speed objects like roller-coasters and trains, the amount of blur from lower frame-rates is probably noticeable. I wonder what response time those LCDs have (5ms or less?).

Converting 60fps to 120fps by retiming, gives an effect very similar to what we see on the new consumer 120Hz displays. Where content is reprocessed. It looks very strange, very smooth, but just "wrong". When something is shot at 120fps with 180 (or preferably a bit faster) shutter and played back at 120fps, it has a different look. I would be wrong to say that it does not look like "video", but I find it more appealing than 60Hz video. It is just sharper with less motion blurring.


Would also love the option of capturing audio in timelapse, i.e. whenever a frame is exposed, get 1/24th of a second of sound.

If I'm understanding this right, you would only capture audio with the recorded frame. Not sure how this would work for anything? If frames are 1 second apart, which is the slowest that RED can do right now, and you have 1/24th of a second of audio. I don't see how this wouldn't stutter and just sound like terrible noise when played back. Maybe I don't understand what you're asking for? :usd:

[Paul Leeming]

Request noted. At lest for now you will have to record separate sound.

Can you shoot 60 fps and frame rate double?
Thanks Stuart!

As Jeff said though, in our case the client specifically needs 120Hz footage for a train simulator so frame doubling is not feasible.

Cheers for always listening (that goes for EVERYONE at Red actually) :)

Paul