Options for shooting uncompressed?

[echoesLA]

If you are shooting RAW at full speed, full resolution (2540P) at 60FPS 12-bit linear, you're going to need a massive drive array to be able to record this, at quite a lot more than 500MB/sec. What options are there going to be for recording uncompressed? Are the only options to use compression right now? Just curious as to how this could even work.

I'd also really like to see some real footage on a normal green or bluescreen. I'm not talking about an idealized super-perfectly lit screen either, but a real-world probably poorly and unevenly lit screen like we see in 99% of shoots that come through our vfx facility.

-K

[Graeme Nattress]

The good news is, that in current tests, the REDCODE RAW output is visually indistinguishable from uncompressed, even at the lowest bit rates we're expecting to use. If you play with extreme levels (and I do mean extreme) you can see the odd difference burried in the precise pattern of the noise in the image, and does not manifest in changes in real detail.

That said, if you really want to record uncompressed, there will be options via the external high speed port.

Graeme

[Scott Webster]

Graeme,

Can you tell me how REDCODE has developed? I mean were you just sitting in front of your computer and the flashbulb went off and you went "Eureka!, I know how to compress 4K into 27MB/s! now who would be interested in that?"

Or did Jim contact you and say "I want 4K @ 27MB/s, make it happen"

What an incredible achievement. Well done.

[Graeme Nattress]

We all stand on the shoulders of giants. All I did was some little bits of magic.

Graeme

[jack]

REDCODE RAW is amazing but if I’m correct it’s limited to 30fps and the sensor is cropped to 4K.

[Graeme Nattress]

Sure, but that's a hardware, not a codec concept limitation. And 4k30p is such a leap beyond HD anyway....

Graeme

[Scott Webster]

REDCODE RAW is amazing but if I’m correct it’s limited to 30fps and the sensor is cropped to 4K.

Are you serious?

The Sony NG-F23 US$175K
2/3" Sensor 1080p 4:4:4 up to 30fps

[Graeme Nattress]

Rocketeer, you put my point precisely.

Graeme

[jack]

Are you serious?

The Sony NG-F23 US$175K
2/3" Sensor 1080p 4:4:4 up to 30fps

True, we have nothing to complain, but I can understand one chooses full S35 2540p RAW over 4K REDCODE RAW.

[Graeme Nattress]

Sure Jack, but it's hardly practical for most people, hence REDCODE RAW.

[Emmanuel Cambier]

Sure, but that's a hardware, not a codec concept limitation. And 4k30p is such a leap beyond HD anyway....

Graeme

Damit!!
Change the godam' hardware then, you lazy slub o' you ?!:D

Actually I don't mind if you do;)

Yours (for a better proc) Emmanuel

[Graeme Nattress]

We've already crammed a super-computer in there. It's not a TARDIS you know!

Graeme

[Emmanuel Cambier]

We've already crammed a super-computer in there. It's not a TARDIS you know!

Graeme

Well,
give people a fish(no pun), and they'll wan't you to give them the ocean.

With all the miracles you guys have provided so far, it is sort of tempting, while slightly rude, to keep a certain hope for… let's say…hum 4k redcode @ over 30fps.

Maybe some of us are simply waiting for a confirmation that the processor will be upgradable, since it seems to be the last bottleneck before absolute slowmo' nirvana. I know this would satisfy me entirely.

Now please call me all you want… I deserve it, just remember that in my heart at the moment there is just so much thankfull love for you guys.:o

Yours (badly Red addicted) Emmanuel

[Ruairi Robinson]

We've already crammed a super-computer in there. It's not a TARDIS you know!

Graeme

Graeme - would it be possible to crank up the framerate higher if you greatly increase the compression at the expense of image quality, or is it a problem balancing data rate vs encoding speed...?

Could you get 4k 60fps at godawful quality, for example...?

R.

[Brook Willard]

Greater compression doesn't change the amount of data that is going into the system. Furthermore, I've found that greater compression often leads to greater processing strength required.

[Graeme Nattress]

It's all about how many pixels we can process per second. It doesn't matter what we do to them - compress them harder or lighter, but the number of them.

Graeme

[Martin Jäger]

hej graeme - don't take that one too serious - i'm just courious:

would it be a hardware (sensor) or a software barrier
to read out 240fps @ 1k?

other mindgame:

could you make a double readout of the sensor to increase dynamic range?

don't ask me about any logic - i'm just thinking :)

martin

[Graeme Nattress]

Things are always possible, but I can't say yes off the top of my head. Once RED ONE hardware platform is in use, we can further experiment to see what the actual physical limits are. Then we can see what happens next.