Pre Coloring RedCine to Scratch?

[Julian Banos]

I am wondering if I can take basic decisions to color shots with RedCine or RedAlert and later when I jump to Scratch I can use this values.

A basic example: we do copies of r3ds on set, then I would bring them into RedCine and save the settings of the shot such as: contrast, temperature, saturation. Can I then bring all this information into Scratch?

[John Tissavary]

Not at this point, but it's something that's been mentioned for the future. However, there's no reason you can't bring Scratch on set... that's how we do it.

regards,

John T.

[Lucas Wilson]

Not at this point, but it's something that's been mentioned for the future. However, there's no reason you can't bring Scratch on set... that's how we do it.

regards,

John T.

John,

I'm actually happy to correct you here!

Yes - you can load Redcine color correct files (RCC) into SCRATCH and apply those values.

Lucas

[John Tissavary]

Right on! When did that happen, or rather, where the hell have I been!?

cheers,

John T.

[Julian Banos]

That's great news. How do you do it?

I cannot bring Scratch into the set, because I don't have a license, but I always suggest it to my clients. Most of the times the DP does not have the time (or does not get paid) to go the Scratch session, but a lot of times they want to give a few guidelines for the colorist.

This is why I want to open some clips on RedCine on set and do a very basic guideline of what the DP and the Director would like the colorist to follow.

Thank you for your quick response.

[Lucas Wilson]

That's great news. How do you do it?

1) Save RCC file out of Redcine
2) In SCRATCH, go to Matrix
3) Load -> RCC.

: )

Lucas

[Julian Banos]

Thank you Luki! I will give it a shot.

[Miguel "Macgregor" De Olaso]

I gave it a try, and yes i can load the profiles but the result looks diferent than redcine.

[Lucas Wilson]

I gave it a try, and yes i can load the profiles but the result looks diferent than redcine.

You *must* have builds of REDCINE and SCRATCH that are matched, or it will look different.

...and obviously make sure all gamma/color space/LUT settings are the same, etc, etc.

Lucas

[Nook Kim]

I know it's a bit off topic, but how are you guys monitoring Redcine on set? As Redcine/Red Alert don't support video out, you guys must be monitoring on computer monitors, but I was just wondering if that's good enough to generate RCC's to be imported to Scratch grading session. Or are we just talking about rough rough adjustments here?

Thanks,

[Steve Sherrick]

I know it's a bit off topic, but how are you guys monitoring Redcine on set? As Redcine/Red Alert don't support video out, you guys must be monitoring on computer monitors, but I was just wondering if that's good enough to generate RCC's to be imported to Scratch grading session. Or are we just talking about rough rough adjustments here?

Thanks,

Generally speaking, anyone who doesn't own Scratch is doing their initial one light on computer monitors because there are no alternatives right now. Without a video out capability, Red Alert and Redcine must rely on a calibrated computer monitor. Once files are exported to NLE then you get to see what they look like in a broadcast environment. The good news is that you can get pretty close and often will just need minor tweaks. But make sure to calibrate computer monitors often.

[Nook Kim]

Generally speaking, anyone who doesn't own Scratch is doing their initial one light on computer monitors because there are no alternatives right now. Without a video out capability, Red Alert and Redcine must rely on a calibrated computer monitor. Once files are exported to NLE then you get to see what they look like in a broadcast environment. The good news is that you can get pretty close and often will just need minor tweaks. But make sure to calibrate computer monitors often.

Thanks for your response. I guess histogram is your best friend in that environment.

[N. Keller]

Hi all,

I'm reviving this thread instead of starting a new one since I had virtually the same question.

I'm working on a project where the plan is to edit in Final Cut Pro with proxies, output EDLs, and then do the conform and color correction on Scratch at the lab. This is a feature length project that's gonna go out to 35mm.

Except for the data manager and camera assistant, we're all new to the RED (including the cinematographer), and even they have not done a feature length output to 35mm with the camera.

Also, our budget is really low, so we wanted to do some pre-correction in Redcine before getting to the expensive lab hours on the Scratch, but are faced with the same problem mentioned by others in this thread--no calibrated monitor. So I have a few questions about what we can do to make the best of it.

1. Clearly as Nook Kim mentioned the histogram is going to be key. Any suggestions there considering we are ending up in 35mm? I've read suggestions saying you should get as close to the right (highlights) as possible to avoid underexposure noise. Any specific numbers as to where your blacks should be?

2. I believe the lab will be correcting in REC 709 and then making the conversion to LOG right before printing (I know some people say this is not the best, but we're stuck with what works for the lab and it actually may kind of help us aesthetically as the director wants a sort of video-ish look). We're thinking it would be best to set the camera to REC 709 for recording to get the closest idea of what we'll see when we conform on the Scratch. But I wonder how far off we're going to be from their color correction projector. We don't even have an HD monitor on set. Just a CRT monitor and the Mac Book Pro that the data manager will be using.

3. Say the director and cinematographer want to play around on RedCine. What would be the correct settings, considering the MacBookPro has a 1.8 Gamma? Do you compensate for that in RedCine with a setting? We're obviously not going to be calibrated with the lab's projector, but we want to be in the same ballpark.

4. Any suggestions for calibrating the Mac Book Pro cheaply aside from the built-in visual calibration you can do in System Settings? Is there a profile that would be best to use? Is there a way to calibrate it to resemble the REC 709 color space?

5. The data manager wants to connect the Mac Book Pro to use as a monitor for the camera, but in my opinion we're better of with the CRT (though I still have to check if they've calibrated it). Any opinions?

6. Just for kicks we want to try to output settings from RedCine to input to Scratch. Can someone walk me through that more specifically, or point me to some online resource? I tried opening RedCine and couldn't figure out how to output an RCC... first time using the program or anything like it.

Sorry for all the super-nubie questions, and for any confusions in how I'm understanding things. I am relaying other people's questions that may have much more knowledge than me, but I'm the only one with fluent English so here I am....

Thanks,

Nayeli

[Julian Banos]

I'm working on a project where the plan is to edit in Final Cut Pro with proxies, output EDLs, and then do the conform and color correction on Scratch at the lab. This is a feature length project that's gonna go out to 35mm.

WE DID IT FOR A LOW BUDGET FEATURE AS WELL.

Also, our budget is really low, so we wanted to do some pre-correction in Redcine before getting to the expensive lab hours on the Scratch, but are faced with the same problem mentioned by others in this thread--no calibrated monitor. So I have a few questions about what we can do to make the best of it.


1. Clearly as Nook Kim mentioned the histogram is going to be key. Any suggestions there considering we are ending up in 35mm? I've read suggestions saying you should get as close to the right (highlights) as possible to avoid underexposure noise. Any specific numbers as to where your blacks should be?

ON CAMERA: GET YOUR HISTOGRAM AS WIDE AS POSSIBLE WHEN EXPOSING, THIS SHOULD GET YOU THE BIGGEST AMOUNT OF IMAGE DATA TO POST. COMBINE IT WITH FALSE COLORS, SEE THE RESULTS ON REDALERT WITH THE DP AND KEEP LEARNING TO EXPOSE. IT SHOULD ALL MAKE PERFECT SENSE AFTER A COUPLE OF TIMES.

2. I believe the lab will be correcting in REC 709 and then making the conversion to LOG right before printing (I know some people say this is not the best, but we're stuck with what works for the lab and it actually may kind of help us aesthetically as the director wants a sort of video-ish look). We're thinking it would be best to set the camera to REC 709 for recording to get the closest idea of what we'll see when we conform on the Scratch. But I wonder how far off we're going to be from their color correction projector. We don't even have an HD monitor on set. Just a CRT monitor and the Mac Book Pro that the data manager will be using.

IF YOU MONITOR ON CAMERA WITH REC709 BE VERY CAREFUL WITH HIGHLIGHTS, REDSPACE GIVES YOU SOME "HEADROOM" WITH HIGHLIGHTS.
DON`T WORRY ABOUT BEING CLOSE RIGHT OFF THE BAT, REMEMBER THE RED RECORDS ON RAW FORMAT, YOU DON'T HAVE TO COOK THE LOOK ON CAMERA AS YOU WOULD WITH A CINEALTA.


3. Say the director and cinematographer want to play around on RedCine. What would be the correct settings, considering the MacBookPro has a 1.8 Gamma? Do you compensate for that in RedCine with a setting? We're obviously not going to be calibrated with the lab's projector, but we want to be in the same ballpark.

KEEP IN MIND THAT ON SET YOU CAN GET CLOSE, BUT NOT ACCURATE WITH REDCINE. MAKE BASIC AESTHETIC CHOICES, SUCH AS, CONTRAST, TEMPERATURE, SATURATION, ETC. THINK ABOUT IT AS GUIDES FROM DP AND DIRECTOR TO YOUR COLORIST. THIS SHOULD SAVE YOU A LOT OF TIME OF FINDING THE LOOK ON SCRATCH. MAYBE 50 HOURS ON A 120 HOURS SESSION.


4. Any suggestions for calibrating the Mac Book Pro cheaply aside from the built-in visual calibration you can do in System Settings? Is there a profile that would be best to use? Is there a way to calibrate it to resemble the REC 709 color space?

GET THE X-RITE CALIBRATOR AND A HOOD FOR YOU MACBOOKPRO. BOTH SHOULD COST YOU $300 TO $450.

5. The data manager wants to connect the Mac Book Pro to use as a monitor for the camera, but in my opinion we're better of with the CRT (though I still have to check if they've calibrated it). Any opinions?

A WELL ADJUSTED MONITOR ON THE MACBOOKPRO IS FINE FOR "COLOR GUIDES". ON SET MY PRIORITIES ARE: TAKE CARE OF HISTOGRAM AND EXPOSURE, SET A GENERAL FEEL AND ATMOSPHERE FOR THE SCENES, DO SOME GRADES WHILE YOU ARE SHOOTING, DURING A SMALL BREAK APROVE A "COLOR GUIDE" WITH DP AND DIRECTOR. THIS IS THE BEAUTY OF RAW, IF THE LAB FINDS IT TO BE TECHNICALLY OFF BY 20% IT SHOULD NOT BE A BIG DEAL AT ALL. YOU WILL ENJOY THE BENEFITS OF RAW COLORING WITH R3D.

6. Just for kicks we want to try to output settings from RedCine to input to Scratch. Can someone walk me through that more specifically, or point me to some online resource? I tried opening RedCine and couldn't figure out how to output an RCC... first time using the program or anything like it.

Sorry for all the super-nubie questions, and for any confusions in how I'm understanding things. I am relaying other people's questions that may have much more knowledge than me, but I'm the only one with fluent English so here I am....

IF IT HELPS I SPEAK SPANISH.

Thanks,

Nayeli[/QUOTE]