RED 85mm

[Shawn Bannon]

okay thank goodness, you guys have an 85mm in your prime lens set. But what about something inbetween 15mm and the 25mm? any plans? thats such a large jump.

[Evin Grant]

The 18-50 is the gap filler as far as I can tell.

[Shawn Bannon]

thats fine with me if we could buy lenses individually.

[Evin Grant]

At the moment I believe the primes will be sold in the set only.
E.

[Corrado Silveri]

Sorry Evin, about the Primes, don't you think there is a little problem with the different speeds?
1.9/2.8?

[Evin Grant]

No, I don't see it as a problem. It's one stop and a reasonable concession for price and performance. The new Angenieux OPTIMO 15-40 T2.6 is barely faster and cost more than all the Red lenses put together!

[Finner]

Evan I see the 18-50 as pretty much a variable prime. Any chance it could be the first in a set of 3 variable primes? Like add a 60-105 and a 115-150. This would make a lot of sense to me as I don't see much use in the 18-50 as its just to short.

[Dominique Grenier]

Evan I see the 18-50 as pretty much a variable prime. Any chance it could be the first in a set of 3 variable primes? Like add a 60-105 and a 115-150. This would make a lot of sense to me as I don't see much use in the 18-50 as its just to short.

Excuse my ignorance, but what is the difference between a variable prime and a zoom?

[M Olsen]

Evan I see the 18-50 as pretty much a variable prime. Any chance it could be the first in a set of 3 variable primes? Like add a 60-105 and a 115-150. This would make a lot of sense to me as I don't see much use in the 18-50 as its just to short.

Good call Finner that is what I have fingers crossed for

[Finner]

Dominique: I find a zoom gives me the ability to cover close to the approximate range of a complete set of primes. The 18-50 just does not give you much of a zoom because its too short. So this is why I mentioned that I see it more as a variable prime and the way I look at it for this lense to be very useful it needs to be 1 in a set of 3 that will take you up to 135mm or more.

[Dominique Grenier]

Dominique: I find a zoom gives me the ability to cover close to the approximate range of a complete set of primes. The 18-50 just does not give you much of a zoom because its too short. So this is why I mentioned that I see it more as a variable prime and the way I look at it for this lense to be very useful it needs to be 1 in a set of 3 that will take you up to 135mm or more.

Just so I understand correctly, in what you say, the Nikkor 17-35mm would be a variable prime and the Nikkor 80-200mm, a zoom?

Thanks!

[Evin Grant]

In general a variable prime is a zoom lens that sacrifices range for quality, so you have a lens that dosen't cover as much but comes very close to the optical quality of the primes it replaces. The 18-50 is right on the edge of that line IMHO. As far as the likelyhood of Red coming out with more zooms, I have no idea. I'd like to see them get the primes right and out before they start working on anythin else. I just really want those primes!

[Finner]

Just so I understand correctly, in what you say, the Nikkor 17-35mm would be a set of primes and the Nikkor 80-200mm, a zoom?

Thanks!

Ya in my way of talking anyway. Truely they are both zoom lenses but if you were actually having to use the zoom function the 17-35 or even 18-50 would be a pretty lame zoom. I would probably next to never use the zoom ability on either of these lenses and just find the length that worked for a particular shot and stay on that length. Thus the reason I call it a variable prime.

[OUinLA]

Yes, they are technically both zoom lenses, but the vari primes have better resolution and are usually faster than your "typical" zoom. Vari primes are often used on steadicam and handheld rigs so you don't have to change lenses and slow things down on a set. essentially it's an oxymoron but they are used like primes, yet they are variable focal lengths. Usually they only jump 10ml or something.

[Finner]

Usually they only jump 10ml or something.

Not the ones I have used. The ARRI vari primes are more like a 25 or 30mm jump.

[Dominique Grenier]

Alright, thanks for explaining guys, oh and sorry for hijacking the thread, but it got me curious... :)

[Dominique Grenier]

I've got another question. Well, two actually.

So if I understand correctly, in this way, any zoom could be used as a set of primes, say a 80-200mm, as long as you pick up a length and stick to it, but then, since of the high range it cover, it would lack the quality of a prime?

Which leads me to: should I stay away from high range zooms? Even if they go down to f/2.8 (or better)?

[David Mullen ASC]

It's a matter of taste -- some DP's like John Seale shoot everything on a zoom. Ridley and Tony Scott also prefer using zooms for everything. To them, the quality loss of the zoom is offset by its versatility, being able to adjust image size quickly, etc. Most TV shows shoot on zooms just to speed set-ups along a little.

Technically, since a zoom has more glass elements in it than a prime (and a long ratio zoom even more) it will tend to be more prone to flare and a little softer and a little less contrasty, less snappy-looking. But whether the quality is still high enough for you is a matter of taste (and it depends on the zoom.)

[Hans von Sonntag]

Evan I see the 18-50 as pretty much a variable prime. Any chance it could be the first in a set of 3 variable primes? Like add a 60-105 and a 115-150. This would make a lot of sense to me as I don't see much use in the 18-50 as its just to short.

I second this. I like the Zeiss Variprimes for their versatility and quality. And they are pretty light, great lenses for handheld/steadycam shooting. I am not a lens technician at all but I suppose it's impossible to build a 18-100 / 25-250 zoom in a Variprime / Red 18-50 kind of size.

Hans

[David Mullen ASC]

The more telephoto the zoom lens goes, the larger the zoom lens has to be in order to have a physically large-enough aperture, relative to the focal length, to be fast. An f-stop is a physical ratio between aperture size and focal length.

So 10:1 zooms that are T/2.8 or faster tend to be large in 35mm photography, especially if you also want to design-out breathing problems as well, which also requires more space and larger front elements.

Fujinon designed a high-end ENG HD zoom with a good ratio that had low breathing problems, only to then have to make and release a similar one... but with more breathing problems, because it was physically smaller for ENG shooters. They complained about the size and weight of the one without the breathing problems.

[Hans von Sonntag]

The more telephoto the zoom lens goes, the larger the zoom lens has to be in order to have a physically large-enough aperture, relative to the focal length, to be fast. An f-stop is a physical ratio between aperture size and focal length.

So 10:1 zooms that are T/2.8 or faster tend to be large in 35mm photography, especially if you also want to design-out breathing problems as well, which also requires more space and larger front elements.
.

That's what I thought. Thanks for the insights.

Hans

[OUinLA]

They complained about the size and weight of the one without the breathing problems.

Can't have your cake and eat it too;)