O'connor 1030HDS (Studio)

[Adam Jeal]

Does anyone know if the 1030 HDS (studio) head is suitable for a fully loaded Red One (body,lens,cage/rails,EVF,monitor,battery,red drive,arri mb-20 mattebox & ff5 follow focus).

According to the O'connor catalogue, the 1030 HDS will accept a load of 40lbs as opposed to 30lbs on the 1030 HD

I love the 2060 - but I doubt that I can afford it - especially if I go with the Arri MB & FF

[Steve Gibby]

IMO the 1030HDS should easily handle the setup you described. I'll be using the 1030HD for my average mobile EFP setup loads of around 22 pounds.

I'll rent a 2060 when I have the need for heavier cine-style loads.

[Adam Jeal]

Thanks Gibby! - Isn't this a cine style load? - It's the kind of set-up that Red were using 2060's for at Nab. I just need to be sure that the 1030HDS will handle it..

[Jeff Kilgroe]

Looks to me like the 1030HDS will handle it. But with the 1030HDS, you gain extra weight bearing capacity while sacrificing the tilt range of the head. So there is a significant compromise there that may affect you.

[Clayton Harper]

There's always this beauty:

http://www.abelcine.com/store/product.php?productid=10629&cat=327&page=1

[roryhinds]

I've read that the RED team say use the 2060 as the 1030 will not handle it.

Obviously I'd love to save the cash and get the 1030 but if its not up to the job then its money not well spent :-)

[Steve Gibby]

I've read that the RED team say use the 2060 as the 1030 will not handle it.

Obviously I'd love to save the cash and get the 1030 but if its not up to the job then its money not well spent :-)

That's because the RED Team was loading up RED One in a heavier cine style accessory setup. They used 2060's at their NAB booth for exactly that - heavier setups. Two weeks before NAB, when I visited RED headquarters to research and shoot DSLR stills for my 4/16 NAB article in Studio Daily, Jarred was using a 1030HD for mobile shots around the facility, but the camera setup was probably around 18 pounds for that.

If you do a lot of mobile EFP or lighter weight cine style setups with RED One, with loads up to a max of around 24 pounds, IMO the 1030 or 1030HD will be excellent. If you do a lot of heavier cine-style setups with RED One, then IMO the 1060 could potentially be the ticket.

If you do an equal split of those weights/genres, then you will probably need to own two tripods, with each used when needed.

[Adam Jeal]

I've read that the RED team say use the 2060 as the 1030 will not handle it.

Obviously I'd love to save the cash and get the 1030 but if its not up to the job then its money not well spent :-)

Hi Rory,

I'm thinking the same thing. If you look at the picture I posted above, this is the kind of rig that i'll be using.

Check out this thread; http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2137 Mike has contacted Production Gear in Elstree (O'connor Dealer) and was told that he would be given a 20% discount if he purchases 5 O'connor heads. I think it'll be well worth a group of us joining together for a bulk purchase.

[roryhinds]

Hi Adam

That sounds great. I'll be up for join in on the 5.

What sort of price can Production Gear do on the 2060? Sometime its still works out cheaper buying from the US :-)

Regards
Rory

[Adam Jeal]

I think they are pretty good. I was quoted £2,950.00 for a 1030 HDS. The US List Price is $6,140.00. I'm waiting for a quote on the 2060.

The only difficultly I can see with the bulk purchase thing is the difference in our respective reservation places! - I am looking to get red #736 & 737 in September if the schedule remains the same. I hope we can all work something out between ourselves!

[Adam Jeal]

The US list price on the 2060 is $10,725.00. At todays conversion rate according to xe.com this works out at £5,363.66. Minus 20% = £4,469.72 + VAT = £5,251.92.

Ouch:pinch: but probably worth it in the long run!

[roryhinds]

Adam whats that price for?

BH sell the 2060 head for $ 7,428.95 (£3910) or you can get the ultimate package for $ 9,099.95 (£4790).

I guess we need to hear from Mike on what price Production Gear are quoting.

Regards
Rory

[roryhinds]

On the 1030 BH can do it for $ 3,972.50 (£2090) or $ 5,099.95 (£2684) for the package.

Yeah timing is key here. I'm set to receive RED#68 hopefully soon, just waiting to hear from Jim about the delay.

I'd need a tripod when I get the camera.

Regards
Rory

[Adam Jeal]

Hi Rory,

The $10,725.00 is the O'connor US list price on the 'package' that B&H have. I'm waiting on a quote from production gear on a 2060 - i'm expecting it to be a bit under the US list price just like the quote they gave me for the 1030HDS.

I got a bit confused at your mention of a 'package'. It seems that B&H are selling the heads without the following;Large Euro Platform, 150mm Base,
150mm Tie-Down & 18mm Pan Arm.

I just put down the US List price = 20% + 17.5% VAT to give you an idea of the cost. When Production Gear quote me on the 2060 i'll let you know the damage.

By the time you pay shipping and duty I doubt that there'll be be much difference between the two, unless a group of us go for the 20% deal.

Regards,

Adam

[Ivan G]

Count me in for the 2060 head only

[roryhinds]

I'd like to go for the 1030, but from what I have read it will not do the job unless the RED is stripped down.

Does anyone know the weight of the RED at NAB?

[Steve Gibby]

I'd like to go for the 1030, but from what I have read it will not do the job unless the RED is stripped down.

Does anyone know the weight of the RED at NAB?

Hmmm.. then you didn't read my posts #2 & 7 on page 1 of this thread...

I'd guess the cine-style setups at RED's NAB booth to have been 26 pounds, including camera body, RED 18-50, matte box, follow focus, RED Rails, handles, EVF, LCD, battery, and RED Drive. That's borderline good performance setup weight for a 1030 or 1030HD - thus the 2060 was used.

If you usually do lighter cine-style setups and/or mobile EFP setups. the 1030 or 1030HD should be fine. If you do heavier setups than that, the 2060 would suit you better.

[Adam Jeal]

I'd guess the cine-style setups at RED's NAB booth to have been 26 pounds, including camera body, RED 18-50, matte box, follow focus, RED Rails, handles, EVF, LCD, battery, and RED Drive. That's borderline good performance setup weight for a 1030 or 1030HD - thus the 2060 was used.

If you usually do lighter cine-style setups and/or mobile EFP setups. the 1030 or 1030HD should be fine. If you do heavier setups than that, the 2060 would suit you better.
Hi Gibby,

I'm with Rory on wanting to go the 1030 route due to cost. If your correct about the weight being around 26 pounds for the above, then the 1030HDS (which has a capacity of 40lbs) should be ok?. I'm just wondering if it would also be ok for the above set-up and the primes (300mm and the set)?

I'd hate to spend that kind of money, only to have the 1030HDS be of limited use.

[Adam Jeal]

The other thing is that Indie-dolly do a heavy duty tripod for $599 that has a 100mm bowl and a weight capacity of 190lbs and I figured that this would be a great pairing with the 1030HDS. The o'connor 25L's are £1,079.00 in the UK.

[Steve Gibby]

Adam,

My normal setup loads for the mobile EFP and light-moderate cine style setups for RED One will range form 15 to 25 pounds, almost rarely above that. I'll be buying an O'Connor 1030HD for that use.

What I'll probably do is get two sets of sticks for the head (both used, by the way). One set of sticks with be a 1-stage or maybe 2-stage alloy pair with a mid-level spreader, and the second will be a pair of lightweight carbon, no-spreader design (like Miller Solo) for real mobile hike-in work.

When I need a 2060 or other beefy head for heavier work, I'll rent it for those particualr projects.

You mentioned a 300mm prime. I'm getting the RED 300mm prime for some of my nature and sports shooting. Having inspected it closely at NAB, I'd say it will weigh around 5 pounds - not a heavy lens at all.

[roryhinds]

HI Gibby

What would your mobile EFP setup consist of?

Its again down to the wait game, we all need to know from RED what the weight of the setups are.

All this guessing is no good.

Regards
Rory

[Adam Jeal]

Thanks for the all the advice Gibby. Its much appriciated! I think i'll be going for a 1030. When you said that you are going for the 1030 HD - did you mean this one or the HDS?

The 1030 HD handles 30lbs and the HDS takes 40lbs. Apparently the HDS only allows 60 degrees tilt as opposed to 90 degrees on the HD.

Regards,


Adam

[Mike the beginner]

I guess we will need to see just how competitive the 20% discount is from production gear. I phoned them because i wanted to know if we could get it at the same price as some of the big outlets in the USA.

I am just starting out remember, you guys know what you are doing i just try and help a little if i can.

I dont think it will effect the order re- what head you get so long as we get five or more.

I can phone round the USA outlets and see what their best price would be for five orders if you want?

I am happy to go along with you guys wherever is cheapest.

I dont think production gear prices include the extras either, so we would need to work things out there as well. The 20% will only be as good if their starting price is competitive to begin with.

Mike the beginner

[Adam Jeal]

Hi Mike,

The Production Gear prices do include the 'extras'. I had some confusion with Rory over this yesterday and it arose because B&H photo in the US sells the heads without the standard accessories.

If you look on O'connor's US Price list, they show the complete package price. The production gear price seems good to me. You also need to bear in mind the costs of shipping and import duty from the US.

I spoke with Steve at Production Gear this morning and he said that if we go for a bulk purchase on five heads it could take between 1 to 2 months to get the order from O'connor. He said that they would look into the cheapest way to get them shipped from the States. He's talking to O'connor this afternoon to see what can be done.

I've been mulling this one over a lot - do I go with the 1030 or the 2060?
I will be working across all areas of production, but I anticipate doing a lot of cine-style work on music videos, commercials and indie features. Myself and my partner are trying to put together a good red package with a second red body for insurance purposes.

The cost of this lot is fast aproaching £50,000 inc VAT and the big question for us at this time is what do do do in terms of Fluid head, Tripod & Spreader, Mattebox and follow focus. The Arri MB 20 /FF5-HD is £5,907.90 inc VAT! but i'm nervous about going with anything else.

[roryhinds]

I'm hoping RED will speak up about the weight of the units so we can make an informed purchase decision.

I'm holding off on purchasing Mattebox, FF as the Arri seems the only choice for now but View Factor say they will be bring equal quality to market for a fraction of the cost.

I plan to hire these in the interim because although Arri is fantastic the purchase price doesn't make sense.

Again the 1030 seems like a great setup, I like that its weighs less and cost less but if its not up to the job then its no good.

[Adam Jeal]

I'm hoping RED will speak up about the weight of the units so we can make an informed purchase decision.

Again the 1030 seems like a great setup, I like that its weighs less and cost less but if its not up to the job then its no good.


Hi Rory, I agree. We need Jarred in here!:)

[Adam Jeal]

I'm holding off on purchasing Mattebox, FF as the Arri seems the only choice for now but View Factor say they will be bring equal quality to market for a fraction of the cost.

If Curt's mattebox is as good as the Arri, then i'd definitely get one. That just leaves follow focus. Shawn Nelson posted this report from Nab a few weeks ago;

'At NAB I personally felt and played with 5 different follow focus units: Arri, Petroff, Chroziel, Cavision and Redrock Micro. Personally, I felt the order of quality went: Arri, Cavision, Chroziel, Petroff and then Redrock. The Cavision felt awesome, less play then even the Arri ones in the Red booth. The knob system felt better than anyone but Arri. Combine that with the rock solid adjustable system and a price of under $900, that's my choice, game over. I have no affiliation at all with them, I just played with 5 different units and they spoke for themselves'.

The Cavision dual follow focus looks very good for the money. It is for 15mm rods but they also do a version with a 19mm rod adaptor. One thing that they don't seem to have is an extension flexible 'whip' remote for the focus knob.

http://www.cavision.com/follow_focusing.htm

Other than the Arri FF i'd been considering the Chroziel, but several people have said negative things about them.

[Finner]

Hi for all you European guys looking at occonor heads take a look at the panther line out of germany. I checked their heads out at NAB and was very impressed. I felt they were close to comparable to a occonor and I have used the occonor for years so this is not something I say with little experience.

[dewaldaukema]

The real problem with the 2060 for doc work is it's weight and the fact that it travels (fly) in two boxes. The 1030 seems just a touch to lightweight for a 300mm lens though. A real option is the X15 Panther. Has a 33 pounds payload, so between the 1030HD and 1030HDS. Had a look at it, solid and well made as one would expect. Head and 2 stage CF legs with soft flight case approx £3600 incl 17.5% VAT from Ortis TV in London, or $5609 from Abel in the US. Anybody with serious experience with the X15

[Steve Gibby]

HI Gibby

What would your mobile EFP setup consist of?

*Note - all weights are unconfirmed estimates

EFP handheld setup for high/low shots
*Note - weights are unconfirmed estimates
Camera = about 8 lbs
LCD (sometimes I use either or both) = 1 lb
Short shotgun mic = .5 lb
Top handle = 1 pound
RED Flash or Express Flash = 1 lb
RED battery = 2 lb
RED 18-50 zoom = 3 lbs or 35mm still wide angle + adapter = 3 lbs

Total = approximately 16.5 pounds

EFP shoulder held setup
Camera = about 8 lbs
EVF (sometimes I may also use the LCD) = 2 lbs
Short shotgun mic = .5 lb
Top handle = 1 pound
RED Flash or Express Flash = 1 lb, if RED Drive = 2 lbs
RED battery = 2 lb
RED 18-50 zoom = 3 lbs, or B4 2/3" HD ENG zoom + adapter = 5 lbs, or 35mm still wide angle zoom or prime + adapter = 4 lbs
Basic RED Rail = 3 lbs
RED Super Grip with RED Motor = 2 lbs

Total = varies from 22 to 25 pounds depending on what is used on the setup


Notes
Add in a tripod claw (.5 lb) and the tripod head weights for those setups range from 17 pounds to 25.5 pounds for mobile EFP setups. If a sungun is used they are light - about 1 lb. Matte boxes and FF are usually not used for EFP setups. If a lightweight clip-on matte box is used, then add 1 lb. If a lightweight FF is used, then add on 2 lbs. Screw-in filters and the lens sunshade is fine for EFP. When using B4 2/3" HD ENG zooms, RED 12 volt powers the lens servo zoom. Focus and aperture are manual. If a Birger adapter is used with Canon still lenses, then a SuperGrip and RED Motor would complete the setup.


Its again down to the wait game, we all need to know from RED what the weight of the setups are.

The above should help you out. IMO my estimated weights should be very close. IMO a tripod with a 30 lb weight limit should be fine for the 25.5 lb estimate of the shoulder held setup I described above, when you are alternately switching from shoulder held to tripod mounted. If you use a lens like the RED 300mm on tripod EFP style for nature/sports, I'd estimate its weight to be around 5 lbs, so you could end up with a setup weight of 27.5 lbs. If you regularly use big, heavy cine lenses, and heavy cine accessories, then the weight of setups can be well above the 25.5 example I itemized above.

Like I said, I will probably be getting a 1030HD with two different kinds of stick for it. I've also had excellent service for mobile EFP work over the years from Vinten and Sachtler tripods, so I'll also take a hard look at them. To save money, I buy all my tripods used from rental houses and TV networks. I simply check them out closely for major problems. Tripods are expensive (for good ones). I refuse to pay new prices for them...

[roryhinds]

Thanks Gibby

I guess a break down from RED of what things weigh would be very useful as its all guess work.

BTW have you heard anything with regard to the delay in shipping?
Seems nothing is coming from RED these days and there is a lot of guessing going on.

Regards
Rory

[Adam Jeal]

Hi Dewald,

Do you have a link for Ortis TV? I can't find them.

Thanks

Adam

[Jeff Kilgroe]

BTW have you heard anything with regard to the delay in shipping?
Seems nothing is coming from RED these days and there is a lot of guessing going on.

When Jim announced the delay, he said he would post an updated delivery schedule in a couple weeks. So far, it's been one week. Here's the post again. (http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2027)

[roryhinds]

that feels like a year ago :-)

[Steve Gibby]

Thanks Gibby

I guess a break down from RED of what things weigh would be very useful as its all guess work.

BTW have you heard anything with regard to the delay in shipping?
Seems nothing is coming from RED these days and there is a lot of guessing going on.

Regards
Rory

Well, actually it isn't all guess work though. To shoot the DSLR photos for my 4/16 RED at NAB article in Studio Daily I visited RED headquarters on 4/3 and personally handled the RED camera body, the RED 18-50 lens and other accessories. I also helped mount an EFP sized RED setup on an O'Connor 1030HD while there, with Jarred. From a 30-year career in EFP field production I'm a very good judge of what things weigh, how to estimate weights, what can be hand held, what can be shouder held, and estimating tripod loads. Nobody on the RED Team staff has close to the length or diversity of mobile EFP production background that I do. They will confirm the weights shortly, and I assure you my estimates will be very accurate.

As for the delay in shipping, I don't expect it to be lengthy. My RED #8 is one of the very first RED One cameras to ship, so you can also rest assured that I'm be one of the first to be notified when a shipping date is finalized. As mentioned in other posts of mine, #8 will then go right into EFP field shooting and testing, then team testing in Los Angeles.

[dewaldaukema]

Hi Dewald,

Do you have a link for Ortis TV? I can't find them.

Thanks

Adam

Hi Adam
Sorry, just back in front of the laptop. Got the spelling wrong. They are at
http://www.ortus.tv/ Guy to speak to is Kevan Parker
Best

[Adam Jeal]

Thanks Dewald. Much appreciated!

Adam

[Kyle Spicer]

Anyone find out more details on the discount for the 1030 / 2060?

[JoshBertrand]

http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4716

[Jay A. Kelley]

Thanks for the all the advice Gibby. Its much appriciated! I think i'll be going for a 1030. When you said that you are going for the 1030 HD - did you mean this one or the HDS?

The 1030 HD handles 30lbs and the HDS takes 40lbs. Apparently the HDS only allows 60 degrees tilt as opposed to 90 degrees on the HD.

Regards,


Adam

Why do you guys keep saying the 1030HDS handles 40lbs? According to the BHPHOTO website, it handles, 60lbs.. More than enough.

Or is that site wrong?

Jay

[david farland]

This is why,..1030HDS = @ 6 in....41 lbs. (18.6 kg)

Check it out now (http://www.ocon.com/products/fluid-heads/1030hds.html)

[Jay A. Kelley]

Oh.... Bummer.... :(

Thanks David..

[Michael Ragen]

First of all, I think the HDS is great, but I haven't been able to put a Red on mine yet. So I have a really stupid question. The HDS comes with a pan-handle extension and I have no idea how I'm supposed to attach it. It seems like I should be able to take the grip off the smaller panhandle and attach the extension to that but the grip doesn't want to come off and I'm afraid of tearing it. Any help for my weak mind would be great.

[Ivan G]

I'm pretty sure it's the same way attached mine for the 2060 I received last week. I simply slid the two together. Unless they use different arms.

[Adrian Correia]

I got my 1030HDS head yesterday...although it has a ball mount and not the mitchell I ordered.

As I look at the head I keep thinking the 2060 is the way to go for me. I can only afford one head and I would much rather have the bigger unit (It is only seven pounds heavier) and have the higher weight capacity and not be restricted in my tilt range.

So, I will most likely return the 1030HDS and pick up the 2060 instead...of course, when I wake up tomorrow I will most likely change my mind again....and save three grand....

[Michael Ragen]

I would be able to slide the two arms together if I could get the grip off but it seems like it will tear. Any ideas?

[Jesse Rosten]

Adrian,

Sent you a PM.

Thanks

[darryl phinnessee]

I would be able to slide the two arms together if I could get the grip off but it seems like it will tear. Any ideas?

There is a loosely fitting tube about about 2 in. long on the arm that you grip and then use it to slide the grip handle off with.
darryl

[Michael Ragen]

I'm an idiot. Thanks man.

[roryhinds]

Has anyone from the Oconnor group buy received their heads?

[Michael Ragen]

Yes, my 1030hds is from the group buy.

[roryhinds]

when did you get yours?
I order in the group but Oconnor say they can only deliver in over a month...

pretty crap considering i've already paid in full and first was told it would ship last week.

[Michael Ragen]

i got mine a little over two weeks ago.

[Ivan G]

I received my 2060 2 weeks ago

[Adrian Correia]

got my 1030hds two days ago...but i am selling it for the 2060

[Bill Goehring]

How much do you want for the 1030HDS?

[Adrian Correia]

already sold...sorry!