645 at 50fps - can it really be done in a year?

[Ben Richardson]

I hate to ask, but... really?

Can you really make a $45k, 645 camera running at 50fps in about a year?

I work professionally with MF digital backs for stills (mainly Phase One models), and I'm staggered that you're even announcing this! (I'm not even going to think about 617 at 25fps! Does anyone even make chips that size!?)

Is it really possible??

[Graeme Nattress]

Yes. It's really possible. As for "does anyone make chips that size", I'd say yes, my mum, but out of potatoes. If you want silicon sensor chips that size, Jim makes them :-)

Graeme

[michael zaletel]

Isn't the bigger issue the bandwidth and real-time storage of the digital data?

Just curious...

-shooter

[Ben Richardson]

Isn't the bigger issue the bandwidth and real-time storage of the digital data?
For the 645 that's more what I meant.

The Phase One backs are fabulous quality, but they don't even manage 1fps. One!

[Steve White]

... and this is why the Epic brains cost so much more than the Scarlets. The internal processing power and bandwidth must be out of this world.

[Fredrik Callinggard]

... and this is why the Epic brains cost so much more than the Scarlets. The internal processing power and bandwidth must be out of this world.

Most probably true, but I'm curious in what we store it to? I was just about to splash out for 6 RED Ram drives ($27K) - are they obsolete when time comes?

[Emery Wells]

Most probably true, but I'm curious in what we store it to? I was just about to splash out for 6 RED Ram drives ($27K) - are they obsolete when time comes?

Think more along the lines of the phantom cinemag which is capable of 2k recording at 450fps or over 1GB/sec. RED will have to make one that is twice the speed at half the cost but yes these mags will be expensive. You'll also need HUGE amounts of storage for backup/archival. It's all possible today but its cumbersome and costs a lot of money. I suspect RED will have some products to support these data rates by the time the camera ships.

[Fredrik Callinggard]

Emery,

I know the specs that's not the real question. The question is more if I should bother to pay 27K for something I'll only use for 6 months.

[Emery Wells]

Emery,

I know the specs that's not the real question. The question is more if I should bother to pay 27K for something I'll only use for 6 months.

Id hold off. The 16BG cards are going to give you close to 10min at 4k. That comes pretty close to the gold standard for me. I don't like footage sitting on one source for too long. Course, if you are doing docs, interviews, live events, etc... might be a different story.

Plus, I just love how tiny the cards are and I can't stand the drive cradle.

[Graeme Nattress]

That's why designing the sensor from a fps point of view, designing for motion, makes sense now. Yes, the processing power inside is phenomenal. And it's REDCODE RAW that makes recording it possible also.

The only other 617 digital camera I know is the Seitz - a scanning back at one second to take one frame. That's an incredibly long rolling shutter.... And of course, tries to record that uncompressed, so suffers bandwidth issues. A sensor designed for motion, for fast readout solves that, and REDCODE RAW solves the bandwidth issues. It makes large format digital movie making "practical". I think it's going to be awesome fun.

Graeme

[Benni Diez]

Are there prototypes yet? Or is it still all SolidWorks and faith?

[A. Bastaki]

Are there prototypes yet? Or is it still all SolidWorks and faith?

have faith my son... have faith. (in a very gloomy old man's voice and tone)

[wondocam]

i think a big leap on the other end of the production process is needed for this... like a red quantum computer or something similar.

i know a bunch of productions who shoot red 2k for features just because they can`t afford to store all the 4k stuff and edit it on the avid.
even if they have to live with the crappy 16mm sensor size.

not to mention my commercial clients who want 2k tiff and deny to accept 4k redraw.
at the moment productions spend up to four days after the shoot just for converting all the stuff down to 2k tiff sequences.
on 645 they can surely spend months for that :-)

it always causes a big bang announcing all these resolutions, but when it comes down to handling all the data people get sober again...

[Nova Invicta]

Graeme

Are you really suggesting Jim makes his own sensors? The fab plants for these are hugely expensive and whilst your may have your own bespoke designs I would question you actually make your own chips these are likely made in the Far East.

Phase One dont make chips companies like Dalsa in Canada make them for them (Kodak are also big producers). Phase One does however do its own software and pretty slick it is too.

[Graeme Nattress]

In his garage, by hand.

Graeme

[Michele Gavazzeni]

In his garage, by hand.
don't believe Graeme?? have a look at this!
this is the assembling frame and it's jim fixing the photo-sites with the hammer

http://www.reduser.net/forum/uploaded/1485_1226686197.jpg